Suggestions

[debugman18]

We are trying to make it as compatible as it can be with most mods

 

Well, it's certainly compatible with Up and Away, for starters. I don't see it being incompatible with more than a couple of mods.

[kraken121]

Well, it's certainly compatible with Up and Away, for starters. I don't see it being incompatible with more than a couple of mods.

 

Interesting, we were wondering if the dungeons vs cloud world would collide, but its nice to hear that there are no issues so far

[debugman18]

Interesting, we were wondering if the dungeons vs cloud world would collide, but its nice to hear that there are no issues so far

 

The cloud world actually is a negative cave number, so you could add any number of caves, and so long as your cave numbers were incremental, there would always be compatibility, at least as far as worlds go.

[DeathDisciple]

I'm picking positive indexes past ruins level that are free to plug dungeons and stuff in, topology level isn't being used for anything neither are actual values. So there shouldn't be any collision with mods adding extra cave levels, if the loading order stays the same as it was the first time world is generated. Turning them on/off mid playthrough will likely break the save tho, but there's little I can do about it - if I were to hardcode start number I'd have to sync it with every single other mod touching caves, and potential DLCs.

 

I've set priority to -1 so most stuff will execute before HiTD anyway. Main reason is, people still use non-api file overrides, without setting priority at all to boot, making the loading order undefined and causing all forms of weird issues, as if I require file that they are overriding before their code is executed, the file may/will end up being ROG or vanilla default (depending on ROG flag) and their override will be completely lost.

 

The proper mod loading interface that would allow user to see/set priorities and keep them stable between game starts would be preferred, as well as the ability to mention which mods you require to run before you, or which mods are not compatible. But the chances of that happening are the way they are, especially with the current focus, so this is the best solution I could come up with.

[julz1981]

You guys should put a download section on this sub-forum with both the developer and live versions and keep them up-to-date here imo

[DeathDisciple]

You guys should put a download section on this sub-forum with both the developer and live versions and keep them up-to-date here imo

 

We were debating that, but felt it would confuse people more than help. Or cause some false expectations, being that development ver is likely going to be broken and has not-fully-implemented stuff that will go live proper in a month or 3, with both characters and features that are not even remotely fleshed out yet etc.

 

If we were to do so, it would be more like 'nightly builds' that are kinda expected to be mostly stable but may still fail, than really a development version - test-phase ones more than dev ones imo. Bit of a maintenance overhead tho, but would be preferred for some  testing. Still debating what should go in which part of the forum tbh.

Edited May 9, 2014 by DeathDisciple

[julz1981]

We were debating that, but felt it would confuse people more than help. Or cause some false expectations, being that development ver is likely going to be broken and has not-fully-implemented stuff that will go live proper in a month or 3, with both characters and features that are not even remotely fleshed out yet etc.

 

If we were to do so, it would be more like 'nightly builds' that are kinda expected to be mostly stable but may still fail, than really a development version - test-phase ones more than dev ones imo. Bit of a maintenance overhead tho, but would be preferred for some  testing. Still debating what should go in which part of the forum tbh.

Yeah this is quite understandable, only one version would be good too, but right now what version is there?

Because on the ''known issues, live version'', i see Live version...does it mean that there is a download of a more updated version? and if so, where?

Edited May 9, 2014 by julz1981

[kraken121]

Yeah this is quite understandable, only one version would be good too, but right now what version is there?

Because on the ''known issues, live version'', i see Live version...does it mean that there is a download of a more updated version? and if so, where?

LIve version = public version, found here http://forums.kleientertainment.com/files/file/518-mod-hero-in-the-dark/

 

There is only one version available for the public

[julz1981]

LIve version = public version, found here http://forums.kleientertainment.com/files/file/518-mod-hero-in-the-dark/

 

There is only one version available for the public

That's what i tought but i wanted to be sure.

One question, though, if i want to install the more recent version, do i need to uninstall the other or just copy over?

[DeathDisciple]

That's what i tought but i wanted to be sure.

One question, though, if i want to install the more recent version, do i need to uninstall the other or just copy over?

 

It's always safer to remove previous version of the mod before putting new one in, most of the time copy over won't cause issues, but still.

[julz1981]

It's always safer to remove previous version of the mod before putting new one in, most of the time copy over won't cause issues, but still.

Thanks!

[MycoLogical]

Do you still need writers? I'll throw my name in to help; do with that what you wish.

[Crates]

Hey, guys! Hero in the Dark looks pretty interesting. I'm the lead front-end developer at Gartner, and the Don't Starve tournament winner from Pax East this year. I'd love to work with you on your project as a programmer or even just a tester. Let me know here on the forums, or e-mail me at typing[at]gmail.com =)

I would've posted this elsewhere (or sent a PM), but I'm new to these forums, and a lot of features / areas still seem to be locked for me.

[kraken121]

Hey, guys! Hero in the Dark looks pretty interesting. I'm the lead front-end developer at Gartner, and the Don't Starve tournament winner from Pax East this year. I'd love to work with you on your project as a programmer or even just a tester. Let me know here on the forums, or e-mail me at typing[at]gmail.com =)

I would've posted this elsewhere (or sent a PM), but I'm new to these forums, and a lot of features / areas still seem to be locked for me.

Sure, I would like to talk further in private, you can't send or receive a PM until you have 5 posts. Try to get 5 posts then send me a PM so we can chat

[Minik435]

Holy God, I was on trip between .lua files searching sth that isn't "to do"...

But there was almost all things (including missing Boeing and Athlantis), so here are my new ideas for new monsters:

1. Flying snakes:

- 300 HP

- Hostile

- Shoots acid (5 HP/10 s - 1 mnute duration)

- Very fast

- Hits 30 HP

- Flying

- Immunities:

- Lesser spells which includes poison

- Poison

- Bee mines (they're flying)

- Tooth trap (as higher)

2. Faeries:

- 20 HP

- Hostile

- Their spells are VERY powerful (no armor near 4< = instant death)

- Very fast

- Flying

- Hits: 20 HP

- Flies out of range of character if tries to hit them

- Immunities:

- Lesser spells

- Freezing/Overheating

- Can heal themselfes

3. Shape Of Death:

- 10000 life

- Neutral: becomes hostile when player has <30 sanity

- Only night

- His spells are (all words saying "very") powerfull

- Has his own sword

- Hits 200 HP

- Immunities:

- All spells

- All weapons

- All negative stats

- Weaks:

- All types of light (except when player have moggles on):

- His life is drained 10HP/1s when in light

- His hitting rate decreases to 50 per hit

- He is not able to say a spell then

- Slow

- Note: He IS defeatable because he don't have immune to bee mines and tooth traps + he throwns only 1 spell per minute and hits 10s after first hit

- Drains 10SP/1min

- Can be found only after 66+ days alived

- He is one of "Them"

- Can be hit ONLY by axe (50 HP per hit)

- Looks a bit OP (very OP Minik, VERY OP) but to see him you need to have +5 Krampuses killed, so if you want to don't have him: just be nice.

4. Eye Of Doom:

- Neutral

- 3000 HP

- Can't throw spells

- Slow

- Hits 100 HP per 5 secs

- Immunities:

- All non-magic things

- One of "Them"

- Moves only on ground (so Bee Mines and Toothtraps would be useful)

- Changes flowers, trees and bushes to their bad versions:

- flowers - evil flowers

- Evergreen - Evergreen guardian/Totally Normal Tree

- Lumpy Evergreen - Spiked tree

- Birch Tree - Birch Tree guardian

- Bushes - Spiked Bushes

- Grass - Spiked Bushes

- Spawns at start of night with chance of 0.2% and vanishes at dawn

Edited May 11, 2014 by Minik435

[simplex]

I'm picking positive indexes past ruins level that are free to plug dungeons and stuff in, topology level isn't being used for anything neither are actual values. So there shouldn't be any collision with mods adding extra cave levels, if the loading order stays the same as it was the first time world is generated. Turning them on/off mid playthrough will likely break the save tho, but there's little I can do about it - if I were to hardcode start number I'd have to sync it with every single other mod touching caves, and potential DLCs.

We're also dynamically determining free level numbers, but in the opposite direction . Not that the direction matters then, since our approaches should be interoperable regardless of mod loading order. We're also storing some metadata in the world entity to handle the case where the level numbers no longer match what they were when the world was generated.

The issue caused by mod disabling breaking the save was also a big concern to us. So I used some hackish tricks to put up a confirmation screen asking the user for confirmation (and explaining the issues) when attempting to load a save which previously had U&A enabled. The "hackish" part is, of course, in getting this to work even if U&A is disabled (or uninstalled, for that matter ;]).

 

I've set priority to -1 so most stuff will execute before HiTD anyway. Main reason is, people still use non-api file overrides, without setting priority at all to boot, making the loading order undefined and causing all forms of weird issues, as if I require file that they are overriding before their code is executed, the file may/will end up being ROG or vanilla default (depending on ROG flag) and their override will be completely lost.

Our loading priority is also -1 for the same reason. If Lua's sorting algorithm is stable (and I don't know if it is), the mod loaded first will be the first one found in filesystem transversal (which, at least under Linux, is determined by the alphabetic ordering of the mod directories' names; so in a non-Workshop release Hero in the Dark should load first). But anyway, I doubt any incompatibilities would arise in either case (in particular, we don't override any files), not to mention I don't see why anyone would play both mods at the same time.

 

The proper mod loading interface that would allow [...] the ability to mention which mods you require to run before you

I suggested this a long time ago (last September, I think), when the priority system was first introduced. I even posted a fully functional sample code doing that (which worked by being simply copy-pasted into mods.lua), which added two optional fields to modinfo.lua, "dependencies" and "optionaldependencies", using this to build the mod dependency graph and determining the loading order by computing a topological sorting of this graph; Ipsquiggle said he planned to do this "eventually", but I think it's safe to say it won't happen ;P.

Edited May 11, 2014 by simplex

[DeathDisciple]

The issue caused by mod disabling breaking the save was also a big concern to us. So I used some hackish tricks to put up a confirmation screen asking the user for confirmation (and explaining the issues) when attempting to load a save which previously had U&A enabled. The "hackish" part is, of course, in getting this to work even if U&A is disabled (or uninstalled, for that matter ;]).

 

Ok...you can save stuff to be executed in many ways/places... but how the heck do you actually call it's execution if your mod is not active hummmm, dark majick

 

And yeah running both mods, I'm not gonna tell someone he should or should not do it, it would be nice for them to run without collisions just because. But the balance is gonna be totally off, our content is being balanced against our modded characters and the combat/crafting system changes etc, whomever goes UP (pun intended) with top tier loot from HiTD is likely going to be OP to high hell to begin with...

 

I suggested this a long time ago (last September, I think), when the priority system was first introduced. I even posted a fully functional sample code doing that (which worked by being simply copy-pasted into mods.lua), which added two optional fields to modinfo.lua, "dependencies" and "optionaldependencies", using this to build the mod dependency graph and determining the loading order by computing a topological sorting of this graph; Ipsquiggle said he planned to do this "eventually", but I think it's safe to say it won't happen ;P.

 

Yeah... well didn't @SethR say he's taking on some of the modding issues these days? Maybe there's some chance of getting that issue looked upon at least.

 

Yeah I'm calling down the wrath of gods, but that's daily habit of a follower of Innoruuk

[simplex]

Ok...you can save stuff to be executed in many ways/places... but how the heck do you actually call it's execution if your mod is not active hummmm, dark majick

I'll give you some hints:

• Savedata is Lua code.
• Savedata is loaded in an environment with a single entry, loadstring.

Ok, I pretty much spilled the beans (pun intended).

Yeah... well didn't @SethR say he's taking on some of the modding issues these days? Maybe there's some chance of getting that issue looked upon at least.

He did, mentioning they're adding "a bunch" of mod related additions in the next update. But he wasn't specific about any except the generic prefab post init and the translation related changes (as far as I'm aware of).

This issue is in fact listed in @squeek's Big List Of Mod-Related Code Suggestions thread, under "Add mod dependency resolution".

Yeah I'm calling down the wrath of gods, but that's daily habit of a follower of Innoruuk

You fool, there is but one god in these lands. May His title shaping light cast away your heresy.

[DeathDisciple]

Ok, I pretty much spilled the beans (pun intended).

 

I don't... I see what you mean, I don't really like that approach, but I don't see another option either.

 

Why does DS do exact opposite of what 99% other games do to mods anyway? Elder Scrolls, Torchlight, whatever that has actual support... is throwing you a warning/error when you try to load a game with some of the original mods disabled - hell I think torchlight won't even load unless you turn some flag.

 

Here, Klei updates, bumps a version number and auto-DISABLES all mods as a result... A normal user autoupdates the game, has that happen, tries to play as normal, loads a game and sees half of the stuff missing, and - surprise - game doesn't even have 'quit without saving', so what's the chance of him hitting alt+f4 instead of hitting save? Grats, you have just destroyed your world for good!

 

Then he goes back into mods menu just to see all X'd and a outdated message (which half of the people interprete as 'no longer working'), and either throws a fit at us, or at game. I'm not even gonna start on the steam vs standalone problem that I guarantee we'll have again when this MP alpha nonsense starts.

 

TL;DR you shouldn't need to know how the modding system works to use it properly

 

And yeah, I'm aware that 99% of the stuff I'm complaining about was said way before me... but they're no way better now and well, if a collab forum isn't a place to complain what is?

 

 

You fool, there is but one god in these lands. May His title shaping light cast away your heresy.

Nah, I prefer breaking into heaven anyway

 

[simplex]

I don't... I see what you mean, I don't really like that approach, but I don't see another option either.

I don't love this approach myself. It was certainly fun coding it, but savedata is no place to run code, especially since any error raised in it would render the save unusable. I wrapped absolutely everything in pcalls, but still, even if the chance of something going awry is very small, it's uncomfortable to have this possibility lurking around.

But after having waited many months for a game supported alternative, I had to settle for this being the lesser of two evils. In U&A, everything in the cloudrealm is custom content (except for a couple frogs here and there), so if the player loads a save in the cloudrealm with U&A disabled they'll be dropped into an empty world engulfed in complete darkness (the darkness part is because the cloudrealm is technically a cave, so without our code changing the ambient light it defaults to pitch black). And, of course, since the very exit from this world is custom content, there's no way to get out of it without resorting to the console. And if the player loads the save while on the surface, the beanstalk will disappear, so access to the cloudrealm will be broken (the player will be able to plant another beanstalk, since the quest status will also be reset due to the loss of savedata, but this will lead to a completely new cloudrealm). So the effects of the loss of savedata were to severely game breaking for me to let them persist, even if the solution within my means is far from ideal.

 

Why does DS do exact opposite of what 99% other games do to mods anyway? Elder Scrolls, Torchlight, whatever that has actual support... is throwing you a warning/error when you try to load a game with some of the original mods disabled - hell I think torchlight won't even load unless you turn some flag.

 

Here, Klei updates, bumps a version number and auto-DISABLES all mods as a result... A normal user autoupdates the game, has that happen, tries to play as normal, loads a game and sees half of the stuff missing, and - surprise - game doesn't even have 'quit without saving', so what's the chance of him hitting alt+f4 instead of hitting save? Grats, you have just destroyed your world for good!

 

Then he goes back into mods menu just to see all X'd and a outdated message (which half of the people interprete as 'no longer working'), and either throws a fit at us, or at game. I'm not even gonna start on the steam vs standalone problem that I guarantee we'll have again when this MP alpha nonsense starts.

 

TL;DR you shouldn't need to know how the modding system works to use it properly

 

And yeah, I'm aware that 99% of the stuff I'm complaining about was said way before me... but they're no way better now and well, if a collab forum isn't a place to complain what is?

When the mod API was being developed, there weren't many mods adding meaningful content, which would suffer from loss of savedata. Most mods back then could safely be disabled and later reenabled in the middle of a playthrough. Still, this doesn't excuse the API pandering to this simple mod case instead of adopting a system which would benefit more ambitious mods. The game should put up a warning saying that this and that mod might be incompatible with the game, and offering the user the option to disable them, not simply do it automatically. And it should do the same when a mod crashes. This is a point where the developers got the concept of "mod friendliness" completely wrong.

 

Nah, I prefer breaking into heaven anyway

How dare thee! The Fairy is fair and just, but shall not hesitate to smash infidels with its hammer.

(aaand I left my head banging days behind me ;P)

Edited May 12, 2014 by simplex

[kraken121]

Holy God, I was on trip between .lua files searching sth that isn't "to do"...

But there was almost all things (including missing Boeing and Athlantis), so here are my new ideas for new monsters:

1. Flying snakes:

- 300 HP

- Hostile

- Shoots acid (5 HP/10 s - 1 mnute duration)

- Very fast

- Hits 30 HP

- Flying

- Immunities:

- Lesser spells which includes poison

- Poison

- Bee mines (they're flying)

- Tooth trap (as higher)

2. Faeries:

- 20 HP

- Hostile

- Their spells are VERY powerful (no armor near 4< = instant death)

- Very fast

- Flying

- Hits: 20 HP

- Flies out of range of character if tries to hit them

- Immunities:

- Lesser spells

- Freezing/Overheating

- Can heal themselfes

3. Shape Of Death:

- 10000 life

- Neutral: becomes hostile when player has <30 sanity

- Only night

- His spells are (all words saying "very") powerfull

- Has his own sword

- Hits 200 HP

- Immunities:

- All spells

- All weapons

- All negative stats

- Weaks:

- All types of light (except when player have moggles on):

- His life is drained 10HP/1s when in light

- His hitting rate decreases to 50 per hit

- He is not able to say a spell then

- Slow

- Note: He IS defeatable because he don't have immune to bee mines and tooth traps + he throwns only 1 spell per minute and hits 10s after first hit

- Drains 10SP/1min

- Can be found only after 66+ days alived

- He is one of "Them"

- Can be hit ONLY by axe (50 HP per hit)

- Looks a bit OP (very OP Minik, VERY OP) but to see him you need to have +5 Krampuses killed, so if you want to don't have him: just be nice.

4. Eye Of Doom:

- Neutral

- 3000 HP

- Can't throw spells

- Slow

- Hits 100 HP per 5 secs

- Immunities:

- All non-magic things

- One of "Them"

- Moves only on ground (so Bee Mines and Toothtraps would be useful)

- Changes flowers, trees and bushes to their bad versions:

- flowers - evil flowers

- Evergreen - Evergreen guardian/Totally Normal Tree

- Lumpy Evergreen - Spiked tree

- Birch Tree - Birch Tree guardian

- Bushes - Spiked Bushes

- Grass - Spiked Bushes

- Spawns at start of night with chance of 0.2% and vanishes at dawn

 

I will take these into consideration but we also have similar things planned. 

[Minik435]

I will take these into consideration but we also have similar things planned.

Yay, sth that is only related not planned!

Did you even though about some new characters to play? Btw HitD looks like now as it takes ideas from D&D and Wizardry 8.

Here are my character ideas:

1. Lizardman:

- Basics:

300 base HP

150 base SP

100 base Hunger

- Abilities:

Hits twice as Wilson

Poisons enemies

Chameleon ability

- Weaks:

No-magic character (I meant HitD spells, not DS magic)

Slower (0.75 speed of Wilson)

Pigs and bunny men are hostile for him

- Note: He can use staffs by the way. He just can speak spells good cuz of longer "s" in his speak (like "ssssssay sssssomething)

2. Dracon:

- Basics:

250 base HP

200 base SP

100 base Hunger

- Abilities:

Breathes fire

Hits twice as Wilson

Can use powerful spells

- Weaks:

Getting wet and cools faster

He just CAN'T wear easy-to-burn things like grass and log suit if there is no rain (god damn, he is a human and dragon!)

Note: He can have ETB things in regular inventory

His spells are mainly from fire magic, so he can use only lesser spells from other realms

I have many others but for now I'm too sleepy, so give me your opinions about that for now.

[DeathDisciple]

Btw HitD looks like now as it takes ideas from D&D and Wizardry 8.

 

Cause it does In fact Wizardry 7 is one of my all-time favorites. Tho it's really hard to not reference both in one way or the other while building a RPG-style system.

 

And man I'd totally do an Iksar-inspired char (lizard-race) if we weren't still stuck to character templates... tho I do have some ideas how to get around the limitations, at least partially.

 

Dracon... makes me think of adding the dragon transformation (or well dragon welp as it might be)

[julz1981]

I've asked for this once and you guys said you would look into it, but i think the goblins sounds are way too loud, it's at least twice as loud as everything else and every time i hear them i jump lol

 

Please lower their sound.

[kraken121]

I've asked for this once and you guys said you would look into it, but i think the goblins sounds are way too loud, it's at least twice as loud as everything else and every time i hear them i jump lol

 

Please lower their sound.

This has been fixed for next update, we have had it fixed for a while now, just trying to finish the next large update