Season balances...

[bdiz4shiz]

Hello dev team and forum community

 

Ok, so i already know im going to be berated for suggesting this, but the new seasons need to be in balance with each other. The whole summer ambient temperature feature need some serious adjusting, and there needs to a reliable and efficient way of extinguishing fires, not just preventing plants from smoldering... I feel like spring and fall are pretty well balanced in accord with each other, however winter is insanely (pun intended) more easy to survive than summer.

 

If summer heat is a very large threat to my base and has the potential to cause it to all burn down in a moments notice (damn birds flying into fire), then there needs to be an aspect in winter that does the same. Furthermore, summer is its hottest at the end, not in the middle (august often the record setting month for summer heat) and while things tend to be more dry during summer, not everything is instant kindling.

 

Perhaps some materials should have a range of resistance so that some objects (twigs, grass, and bushes) are more likely to burn down than say, and wooden structure that I had built. flowers should be wilted or almost nonexistent during summer if it is indeed as hot as the game has implied. 

 

All in all, i am just trying to point out some frustrations i have had with the DLC to the dev team. I really love the fact that there is now a complete seasonal cycle, i love the new creatures craftables characters, etc that it has added, but summer needs some serious work (IMO). 

[GalloViking]

summer needs some serious work (IMO). 

You deserve a cookie. But I don't have any, so here is your +1

For season balancing, well, giants are here for that. Bearger gives an awesome item for winter. Deerclops gives an awesome item for spring. Goose/Moose gives an awesome item for summer. Dragonfly gives an awesome item for autumn an item totally useless.

[DwerBomb]

I agree with the flowers.

In summer, flowers should be wilted and give no sanity when picked up. They still should drop petals (that look wilted but can be used to craft things) because the pretty parasol requires petals to craft.

[Ridley]

Hmmm, I wouldn't like flowers disapearing. But wilting them for sanity effects would be cool.

[GalloViking]

In think, at the cost of a little of your sanity, you should be able to take a bath in a pond to increase your wetness (decreasing your body temperature the same time).

[NeoDeusMachina]

You deserve a cookie. But I don't have any, so here is your +1

For season balancing, well, giants are here for that. Bearger gives an awesome item for winter. Deerclops gives an awesome item for spring. Goose/Moose gives an awesome item for summer. Dragonfly gives an awesome item for autumn an item totally useless.

 

I would say Dragonfly gives 2 items totally awesome for next summer. In fact, you go through hell to survive you first summer (for most people anyway), then if you face the dragonfly and manage to kill it, you have 2 choices. Either a) make an armor that makes you immune to fire, making the next Dragonfly encounter much easier, or b) craft a fireproof chest which will make sure you can store some flammable material/gear/item/etc to protect them in case something goes wrong and your base (or part of it) burns during your next summer. He is the only giant that is rewarding us for actually surviving his own season, instead of helping us survive the next, which I find awesome.

 

As for the season balance, seriously, I find it mostly fine as it is. Each season doesn't have to be a mirror of the others. Many people were unhappy at the beginning (and even now) with the overheating system because they said that it made summer look like a mirror image of winter. If we make summer balanced with winter, add it a reskin of the MacTusk that gives cool summer items just because there is ''nothing to promote exploration during summer'', etc. then summer will really be a copy/paste of winter, just in the red instead of in the blue. I personally have no problem with summer being harder than winter. Pre RoG, winter was harder than the ''old summer'' and nobody complained. Nobody asked that the 2 seasons be equally hard and balanced, each with his special encouters to promote exploration. Now our previously hardest season has been outclassed by a yet harder season, which is great, because we have some additional challenge. Anyway, that is only my opinion =)

[GalloViking]

I would say Dragonfly gives 2 items totally awesome for next summer.

 

I agree with you. But an item that is only usefull ONE YEAR LATER is, for me, sort of useless. Because I have a special summer camp generally built in a desert, where it will probably not burn, I don't need it at all. It's obviously my opinion. I'm sure that lots of poeple will find the fire proof chest/the scale mail very usefull.

[NeoDeusMachina]

I agree with you. But an item that is only usefull ONE YEAR LATER is, for me, sort of useless. Because I have a special summer camp generally built in a desert, where it will probably not burn, I don't need it at all. It's obviously my opinion. I'm sure that lots of poeple will find the fire proof chest/the scale mail very usefull.

 

Well, they are also both useful against fire hounds, which happen to be around during autumn and spring! Granted, if fire hounds are in your base, you did something wrong. However, I understand perfectly that for some people, it might not be the ''immediate reward'' expected when defeating one of the strongest monster in the game =)

[DwerBomb]

As for the season balance, seriously, I find it mostly fine as it is. Each season doesn't have to be a mirror of the others. Many people were unhappy at the beginning (and even now) with the overheating system because they said that it made summer look like a mirror image of winter. If we make summer balanced with winter, add it a reskin of the MacTusk that gives cool summer items just because there is ''nothing to promote exploration during summer'', etc. then summer will really be a copy/paste of winter, just in the red instead of in the blue. I personally have no problem with summer being harder than winter. Pre RoG, winter was harder than the ''old summer'' and nobody complained. Nobody asked that the 2 seasons be equally hard and balanced, each with his special encouters to promote exploration. Now our previously hardest season has been outclassed by a yet harder season, which is great, because we have some additional challenge. Anyway, that is only my opinion =)

Seriously? Summer needs something special. Not a Walrus reskin (i would hate that), but some sort of special events/creatures would be the best.

[NeoDeusMachina]

Seriously? Summer needs something special. Not a Walrus reskin (i would hate that), but some sort of special events/creatures would be the best.

 

I guess it would be nice. I would personally start by making red birds and fire hounds exclusive to summer (only crows and normal hounds would spawn during autumn and spring). As a first consequence, the summer frest could be craftable with material found in summer only (red feathers), just like the puffy vest can only be crafted from winter koalefant. Also, red gems from hounds would only be accessible during summer. The fire hounds would also make the feeling of ''hot and harsh'' season even stronger during summer.

 

There would then only be MacTusk left to differentiate summer and winter ? Am I forgetting something ? We have withering plants/crops + wild fires that are summer exclusive and make the season unique and harder. That does not directly give us unique loot, but still, this is not a Hack and Slash game where you constantly grind for better loot. It's a survival game and in that regard, summer does bring a lot more to the table, pushing survivability not only to the character, but to whatever we build and some non-renewable ressources (e.g. reeds).

 

Anyway, perhaps Klei will eventually add something new to summer, similar to the MacTusk (or totally different). Right now, we have 3 seasons out of 4 where exploring is rather easy and rewarding. Then there is summer, where we can still explore (I always do), but we don't have a specific item to collect (like the tam or walking cane during winter). It this gamebreaking ? I don't think so. Could it be improved ? Most certainly =)

[Cacahuatoforo]

Well, summer IS supposed to be a harder version of winter it's like a difficulty cicle, it increases with each season, and the resets:

 

You get fall, a "break" season, the easiest one, then a challenging one, winter, in winter you freeze and plants don't regrow, spring comes next, another "break" season, but harder because of rain, and finally, summer the second challenging season, and the hardest of all.

 

The problem is that right now, summer is simply a winter copy-paste but with no interesting features, I agree that summer needs some serious work, but to make it more interesting / dinamic, not easier. If winter strikes you while unprepared, you craft a torch and start burning things until you get to your base, if summer does you're dead, there should be more and better ways of surviving the heat, here's some of my ideas:

 

The first (and only) time summer caught me off guard I was in the middle of a forest running back to my base, I started overheating, had like 80 health left, had no chance of making it, so in a last attemp to survive I crafted a straw hat and stood under a tree... I intuitively thought doing so would stop overheating temporarily... Yeah, I died. That needs to change, standing long enough under a tree should stop overheating, just stop it, and resume as soon as the player leaves the tree, so it only be used as an emergency method, the player can wait there until night time to move on.

 

Also, BUCKETS!!! A cheap multitool, don't leave base without one, I'll be super straight forward with this one.

 

Planks + Science Machine = Bucket

 

Bucket + Pond = Water Bucket (with 10 uses)

 

Water Bucket + Wilson = Wet Wilson (This will reduce your temperature)

 

Water Bucket + Farms/Mushrooms/Withered Plants/Smoldering something/Fires = You get the idea

 

Water Bucket + Gold + Alchemy Engine = Golden Bucket (Everything needs a golden vesrion, no exeptions)

 

Golden Water Bucket + Fridge = Golden Frozen Water Bucket (Long name )

 

G. F. W. Bucket + Ground  + Pickaxe = Year round ice

 

Golden Water Bucket + Fire Pit = Boiling Golden Water Bucket (To heat you up?)

 

(I would have used a spoiler, if I knew hot to)

[DwerBomb]

To use spoilers you can type

at the beginning and [/sp.oiler] (without ".") at the end

[forge]

Well, summer IS supposed to be a harder version of winter it's like a difficulty cicle, it increases with each season, and the resets:

 

You get fall, a "break" season, the easiest one, then a challenging one, winter, in winter you freeze and plants don't regrow, spring comes next, another "break" season, but harder because of rain, and finally, summer the second challenging season, and the hardest of all.

 

The problem is that right now, summer is simply a winter copy-paste but with no interesting features, I agree that summer needs some serious work, but to make it more interesting / dinamic, not easier. If winter strikes you while unprepared, you craft a torch and start burning things until you get to your base, if summer does you're dead, there should be more and better ways of surviving the heat, here's some of my ideas:

 

The first (and only) time summer caught me off guard I was in the middle of a forest running back to my base, I started overheating, had like 80 health left, had no chance of making it, so in a last attemp to survive I crafted a straw hat and stood under a tree... I intuitively thought doing so would stop overheating temporarily... Yeah, I died. That needs to change, standing long enough under a tree should stop overheating, just stop it, and resume as soon as the player leaves the tree, so it only be used as an emergency method, the player can wait there until night time to move on.

 

Also, BUCKETS!!! A cheap multitool, don't leave base without one, I'll be super straight forward with this one.

 

Planks + Science Machine = Bucket

 

Bucket + Pond = Water Bucket (with 10 uses)

 

Water Bucket + Wilson = Wet Wilson (This will reduce your temperature)

 

Water Bucket + Farms/Mushrooms/Withered Plants/Smoldering something/Fires = You get the idea

 

Water Bucket + Gold + Alchemy Engine = Golden Bucket (Everything needs a golden vesrion, no exeptions)

 

Golden Water Bucket + Fridge = Golden Frozen Water Bucket (Long name )

 

G. F. W. Bucket + Ground  + Pickaxe = Year round ice

 

Golden Water Bucket + Fire Pit = Boiling Golden Water Bucket (To heat you up?)

 

(I would have used a spoiler, if I knew hot to)

 

Great idea. 

 

The only thing you would have to add is a way for the ponds to refill. Maybe with a day of rain?

This is how to make a spoiler:

Type ["spoiler"] without the quotations 

put your content inside then type ["/spoiler"] again without quotations.

[Biggun777]

I survived my first summer with no ice cube i started in spring and was able to gather gears for a few ice flingmatics to flings some ice on my important stuff and built a thermal stone. it was hard if i wasn't overheating i was freezing due to thermal stone being so damn cold. its not impossible but i love the challenge. I had quit playing Don't Starve the dlc has revamped my love for Don't starve.i live off of challenges to the game the constant struggle for food no longer bunny's live forever in bags you cant store food in crock pots or on drying racks. i fell in love with the game because of the challenge the struggle to survive but after so long you was just so far ahead you never died and didn't have to worry about food. i tried mods but i wanted challenge not something easy. i made it to about day 269 then i decided i was done with the game i had built everything almost and seen it all nothing was new to me and all the updates where over. caves may be a challenge but i could prepare whenever i want for it these season are inevitable you will have to face them. you basically start already a season behind. think about it when you start in spring you have nothing to protect you from the rain so you are behind if you spend your time getting stuff to protect you from the rain your not ready for summer. i like fall being a break season a time to relax even with a giant to keep you on your toes. i think there should be changes like a cheap early tech way to cool yourself like the bucket idea so you dont just die but nothing game breaking that will make things easier during the summer if anything i want a little more challenge in spring. rain i feel is nothing but an annoying thing that happens your only real threat is the occasional rain of frogs those can be a pain. rain should cause something like sickness so you have a reason to not get wet. maybe like when sick you might throw up food making you hungry (-25 hunger). Different levels of sickness depending on how long you stay in the rain or wet and it only starts happening when you reach max wetness. Every season needs to be unique in its own way not a copy of another. You want all season to be balanced and equal then we will have no break from the brutal world of Don't Starve. i want season that seem special and unique to each other like spring rain and summer heat and winter freeze but also a little break to catch up and rest from so much work. for all you wanting changes to be made summer to be equal to winter or summer to be easier all together think about this how many of you just felt like you was living a loop before the dlc all you was doing was just getting by every day no real challenge and you was always prepared for winter now your entire camp can be gone in a flash because you fucked up. so i say learn to live and survive sure we could use a little change to summer but to much and you ruin it and make it to easy and it becomes just like the vanilla Don't Starve.

[brummbar7]

Also, BUCKETS!!! A cheap multitool, don't leave base without one, I'll be super straight forward with this one.

Ya, I agree.  Klei really missed the boat on the bucket thing.  An empty bucket could be used to hold water, which could not only extinguish fires but SOAK the item, so that it doesn't immediately re-ignite.  Which would give it a different but useful purpose compared to the flingomatic which, once a fire gets out of control in your base, the flinger is no good at all.   A bucket couled even serve as a makeshift helmet (like grass armor is makeshift).    I think it should go craft bucket - right click while in inventory wears it like a helmet.   It's also an ingredient in bucket-o-poop recipe.  Hold bucket on cursor, click on pond, pond is emptied (will refill at next rain) and you have bucket of water.  If bucket of water is sitting on ground when it freezes, it becomes bucket of ice.  Bucket of ice held on cursor, right click on ground, creates some ice, and bucket becomes empty.    There could be a lot of use for a simple bucket.

[Audius]

The biggest issue I have with summer is that saplings, grass and berry bushes wither and don't come back naturally. This forces me to go and grab manure and/or rot to bring it back to life which is not so easy nowdays with beefalo population decreased. Even so, the amount of withered vegetation is ridiculously high. One couldn't hope to bring all of them back even with 20 days of free time on their hands, doing just that.

 

Also, buckets, yes. That seems like a great idea. Would solve so many problems like the one I just talked about, perhaps would take away the toughness of summer but I'm sure it can be balanced.

[DevilXD]

I like this bucket idea so much... I would like to make a mod for this, "The Bucket" mod... Maybe I will start working on it in couple of days...

[InaneDugong]

I hate the idea of a bucket. Increases micro-management by so much, and it's really just a prop in the end that adds very little value to the game.

 

Also:

-There's no cycle of difficulty as one can - by default - begin in Spring or Autumn.

 

-Giants are periodic beasts and only discretely affect the player; the Weather is continuous and, thus, cannot be likening to Giants in any way.

 

-Items interacting with these various elements should be considered independently of the mechanics being discussed since balancing only on the overall gameplay is clumsy and leads to inconsistencies that only serve to do the game injustice.

[NeoDeusMachina]

I'm surprised with all the items we have right now, included those they added in last update, that people still want new methods of cooling down during summer o_O I mean, worst case scenario, there is the floral shirt (12 flowers, 6 butterfly wings, 2 silks) which is rather easily obtainable, with a straw hat and a thermal stone. For a bit more effort, there is the summer frest. All those are easily obtainable before the 1st summer (they are comparable to getting some winter clothes). I sincerely don't understand the need for anything more to resist overheating right now =\ Just my opinion.

[PocketChicken]

I see your point and understand that summer can be little annoying.

 

But I have used lots of my freetime to this DLC and after you have played through few summer, it really becomes easy season.

Summer's super short night makes it really enjoyable season in my opinion.

 

But yes, summer really needs something that makes it special like winter's Walruses and Ice hounds.

[DwerBomb]

I'm surprised with all the items we have right now, included those they added in last update, thay people still want new methods of cooling down during summer o_O I mean, worst case scenario, there is the floral shirt (12 flowers, 6 butterfly wings, 2 silks) which is rather easily obtainable, with a straw hat and a thermal stone. For a bit more effort, there is the summer frest. All those are easily obtainable before the 1st summer (they are comparable to getting some winter clothes). I sincerely don't understand the need for anything more to resist overheating right now =\ Just my opinion.

Sure. Actually, the Summer Frest vest should be only obtainable during summer, making it the Winter Vest-like item for summer. That doesn't add any item but gives something unique to summer. Also red hounds should only spawn in summer.

[Cacahuatoforo]

I hate the idea of a bucket. Increases micro-management by so much, and it's really just a prop in the end that adds very little value to the game.

 

Also:

-There's no cycle of difficulty as one can - by default - begin in Spring or Autumn.

 

-Giants are periodic beasts and only discretely affect the player; the Weather is continuous and, thus, cannot be likening to Giants in any way.

 

-Items interacting with these various elements should be considered independently of the mechanics being discussed since balancing only on the overall gameplay is clumsy and leads to inconsistencies that only serve to do the game injustice.

 

I see little to no micro management with buckets , you know, you craft one and take it with you, if you come across a pond, you fill it, that's it, now you can do something about fires. If the intention is using it on your crops you craft a couple, fill them, and store them in a chest, gives the player alternatives, time spend filling buckets could have been spend gathering poop / rot.

 

Whether you start on fall or spring is your choice, starting in the second will make the first days harder and that's it, eventually the seasonal cicle will repeat and so the difficulty cicle. Will chosing to build 400 farms makes the op? Will choosing to fight 400 spiders at once makes them broken?

[XirmiX]

Many people have complained that the brginning and the end of Summer are always annoying; if you compare it to Winter; Winter has a small breezy start instead of a Raging Winter straight away after Autumn ends, so I think summer should have the same thing ESPECIALLY if someone is thinking to survive through Summer as a starting season!

[InaneDugong]

I see little to no micro management with buckets , you know, you craft one and take it with you, if you come across a pond, you fill it, that's it, now you can do something about fires. If the intention is using it on your crops you craft a couple, fill them, and store them in a chest, gives the player alternatives, time spend filling buckets could have been spend gathering poop / rot.

 

Whether you start on fall or spring is your choice, starting in the second will make the first days harder and that's it, eventually the seasonal cicle will repeat and so the difficulty cicle. Will chosing to build 400 farms makes the op? Will choosing to fight 400 spiders at once makes them broken?

That's micro though. If you're taking a bucket around with you, filling it up, using it on multiple things in game, then that's the definition of micro-management. The thing is, you'd be replacing a system where you simply move your character to the position where water would be necessary and you are able to do exactly the same thing except without the need of an extra item. And what does this extra item add to the game? Not a lot. It adds 'stuff to do', but that's it. Collecting water in a bucket isn't exactly what many players would constitute as 'interesting' considering it only involves crafting a bucket and finding a pond. See how it adds zero dimension to anything? It'd be just as interesting to make the Smothering animation include the use of a 'prop-bucket' that doesn't actually exist.  

 

As for the rest, not sure I follow about the seasonal balances, sorry. The whole thing about the cycle of difficulty is a bit silly since Spring and Autumn are easily negotiated irrespective of one's skill level, so it's hard to call it an 'easiest-> hardest' system (which was my point). 

[Amrince]

The biggest issue I have with summer is that saplings, grass and berry bushes wither and don't come back naturally. This forces me to go and grab manure and/or rot to bring it back to life which is not so easy nowdays with beefalo population decreased. Even so, the amount of withered vegetation is ridiculously high. One couldn't hope to bring all of them back even with 20 days of free time on their hands, doing just that.

 

Also, buckets, yes. That seems like a great idea. Would solve so many problems like the one I just talked about, perhaps would take away the toughness of summer but I'm sure it can be balanced.

 

They do return from their withered status when summer ends and within the first couple of days of autumn they are back to normal. Albeit with nothing to pick yet but you are not forced to keep fertilizing them all throughout the summer. That would be impossible. Additionally i believe that the flingomatics will prevent withering as well. So if you don't mind feeding boat loads of logs then you can still have healthy plants.

 

Much like winter where things do not regrow after being picked you just have to stock up on the essentials before the season hits.

 

I also am loving the bucket idea. just a small starter item that would allow a more reasonable spring and summer start but still leaving a challenge. i like the idea of allowing it to creat small amounts of ice in a fridge. 2 pieces / bucket / day in a fridge seems reasonable. to prevent spamming but still allowing reasonable breathing room. but that's just my opinion. still loving all the new chalenges the dlc has brought!