Changes to the difficulty of Giantand usefullness of their Loot

[Zamiel]

Killing Giants (and Deerclops) in a game like this is meant to be the most satisfying experience - the slaying of a legendary massive beast. One would expect to, after killing said creature, be greatly rewarded so as to sweeten the sense of victory. Doing this must be a challenging undertaking and require significant planning and careful execution (or sparks of brilliance and ingenuity) to accomplish a feat of these proportions. If this is not so, these is a greatly reduced pleasure in your achievement. In this open letter I present my hopes for this game, DLC, and future DLCs, which others may share as well and sincerely hope that developers take into consideration mine, and the community's suggestions that I will attempt to highlight and bring attention to in this thread.

 

 

#1) Issue: The "Pan Flute" and "Old Bell" combination done twice slays any Giant very easily with the 1000 damage dealt with each hit. This, combined with the ease of crafting (10 uses x (number of Mandrakes + 1 free Flute by the Glommer statue), with the Old Bell ingredients being completely renewable). It is massively overpowered, making Giants no more than a good, casual source of meat each season. This item removes any and all difficulty in dealing with them and cuts from the game an aspect I consider essentially: tenuous survival where you are as likely to die on day 10 as you are on day 300. 

 

Solution: I believe the damage the Old Bell deals should be kept the same, because it is the quintessential late game "nuke" to clear out a large areas. Instead, it should simply be shifted into end-game by being far more difficult to craft than current recipe of Glommer Wings and Glommer's Flower. This would allow it to remain an efficient Giant-killer, but be costly enough that a player would not be able to have on ready each season, not to mention possibly from Day 1 as it currently stands.

 

 

#2) Issue: Log Suits and Football Helmet provide a total of 96% damage absorption, so having several of each, and switching them out as their durability reaches critical is an alternative to using Pan Flute + Old Bell. It is more of a bother, but is very simple and resource unintensive. Being able to casually facetank a Giant with early-game armor is rather pathetic. 

 

Solution: Health should not be changed if Giants are to be buffed, because their current health allows devious counterplay such as having other creatures fight for you and stockpiling darts which is rather resource intensive (as it should, when you prepare to fight an endgame boss). The change, I believe, should be in the way damage calculations are done in combat with giants. A single hit should not kill an unprotected player who happened to have approached the creature out of curiosity, therefore, the way to improve the combat abilities of giants without increasing their base damage, is to add a Percentage Armor Reduction effect on-hit that would lower the percent damage absorption of individual armor pieces by a flat amount 'X' (40-50%). Applying damage reduction before the pieces are multiplicatively mathed together is key, because doing so retains the benefits and incentive of using high-tier armor while still in the end achieving the goal of allowing Giants to deal greater damage.

 

 

#3) Issue: Loot from Giants is already in crafted-item form, such as Scalemail, the Hibearnation Vest, and the Eyebrella. I sincerely hope, and expect that these are broken down into crafting recipes later on for realism.

 

 

#4) Issue: The "Down Thermantidote" is agreed at this point by the community to be a rather useless item, as the easily crafted Ice Cube allows you to completely forget summer heat and thus never be in situations where rapid cooling is necessary. Not only that, but it does not conform to the trend of Giants dropping clothing as loot which would be a nice change if the recipe reworks to Giant loot as mentioned above would be implemented. This is currently a disappointing drop from one of the most powerful bosses in the game that is no more than a trophy.

 

 

#5) Issue: For such a powerful boss, especially if difficulty was to be increased and Old Bell nerfed, Giants should provide better loot to make defeating them all the more satisfying and lucrative. I think the current structure of a Giants dropping gear useful in the season after its respective one is very good, but the durability of the Eyebrella and Hibearnation Vest should be higher if only by virtue of it being more long-lasting reward that would not require constant maintenance with a sewing kit. I would suggest a buff to a point somewhere in the vicinity of 15 days.

[BigLemon]

The only reason I don't want giants to become stronger is because I have no control over where and when they spawn. If the warning sounds start in the middle of the night and I don't have the resources on me to get away, my base could be locked down and completely destroyed by a creature I now have no hope of defeating.

[Zamiel]

My proposition on how to make giants stronger does not involve an increase in base stats such as health or damage, so if you do not have the resources to get away, you probably do not have 5 logsuits to try and fight him. In that case, you are screwed either way.

[Amkar]

It's already said that the items will be crafted from drops.

 

And please, getting pretty annoyed with people talking about something like a giant, fire breathing, lava spitting bug and realism in the same post.

[kirihime]

1) I'd rather just have it so the first vibrations from bigfoot would wake the giant up, then the giant would do it's best to move out of the way. The old bell is fine otherwise.

 

2) Yeah, I don't like how easy they are to tank either. I'm not sure about a solution though

 

3) This is already planned.

 

4) The Goose is not "one of the most powerful bosses in the game", it's easily the weakest giant, and I have more trouble with Wargs. I do agree that the item is useless though.

 

5) I don't like how the giants drop items that trivialise the next season, I'd rather have their drops go into structures, like the Shootius.

They don't need drops to be satisfying, though - I never used the drops myself, and still had a lot of fun with the fights.

 

The giants themselves are fine as they are now, aside from the old bell and tanking trivialising them.

[Boar Head]

I think the giant with the best drop is the queen since she gives the spider hat which is so helpful since it lets you make use of a very prominent threat in the game but for a limited time and it is a very situational item, one you might want to use to take on a boss or even to have spiders fight amongst each other. I think the items should be more than just clothing items.

 

Who cares about a hibearnator when there is the beefalo hat? There is no need for any more insulation items and there are more than enough armors in the game that offer good protection depending on what you need at the time. I think the items should be of help in some other area other than weather and if it is going to help with combat it should be something that can help long term (like the houndious shootious for example which can help with hounds). Maybe have the dragonfly drop an item (or a crafting item for the recipe) that spawns 30 mosquitos in the general area around you, fun, different and can be used creatively. Maybe 3 uses. I don't know something like that, only thing that popped into my head.

 

The old bell definitely needs to be much harder to get. I'd say put the glommer statue in the ruins or the caves at the very least, don't provide the player a free pan flute and put the crafting recipe for the old bell in the ancient tab.

[Hugo M.]

Honestly, if they will indeed make so that the items will be crafted from drops id rather if there was another option other than the items to help on the next season, the seasons are easy already, no need to get the items (or fight the giants, for what matters).

[maxik]

1) @kirihime, you can still freeze them. Not sure if all.

About the bell, if it was limited to hitting the giant only once, the bigfoot would not step on the same giant twice, maybe move his foot to side. It must hurt to step on deerclops anlteers / firefly spikes.

 

2) Armor was this strong since forever. The problem is that the cheap armor is so good, the higher tier armors should be able to make you almost invicible. But the giants lack some unique combat mechanic specific to them. For example a fast mele knockback attak you can't dodge if you deal enough damage to them. It would interupt tanking.

 

3, 4, 5) Crafting is on the list. Items could have a durability buff. The only thing i like to see changed is the feather. I would turn it into a hat / circlet with the feather sticking out on top. It would slowly cool you down if you were moving, maybe make you a bit faster. We have speedup items for hand and body, but not head.

 

Also. It is easy to lure a giant away, wormhole away from him and wait till next season, with no harm done. I think the main goal of a giant should be to get what he wants (food, structures). And defend himself  when you are not leting him. The giants should remember / mark structures that they see (are close to) so when you lose the giant and return to those structures they spawn back nearby. And if you return back after the giant despawns, those marked structures will be destroyed / burned / food gone, when they load. You must defend the base!

[Zamiel]

The thing is, I expected Giants to actually, well, be a "challenge". Using either bell or tanking with multiple armor sets makes them quite a joke. What is the point of them if they are so easy to deal with at even an early point in the game. I would like someone to explain why buffs/changes would not be appropriate?

[oCrapaCreeper]

Bigfoot should simply do reduced damage to only giants, perhaps 500 instead of 1000. That way a single old bell can't be used to kill one giant and can only be used to weaken them.

 

Also, the Moose Goose is the easiest of all the giants, like, pathetically easy.

 

I'd say boss difficulty ranges like this, easiest to hardest:

 

1. Moose Goose (Easily kitable, weak special attack, primary goal is to defend its children)

2. Bearger (Can deflect items off of you like the Moose Goose, powerful destruction attack, primary goal is to eat your stored food)

3. Deerclops (Can freeze you in place with AOE attack, primary goal is to wreck your camp)

4. Dragonfly (Frys structures as well as players, hard to kite, primary goal is to start random fires everywhere)

[Hugo M.]

I think it'd be better just to buff the guy who hunts you when you kill the glommer, the hunter being krampus, so there would be no need to nerf the bell.

[Zamiel]

I think it'd be better just to buff the guy who hunts you when you kill the glommer, the hunter being krampus, so there would be no need to nerf the bell.

 

Dogs, spiders, and other things kill it and do not eat the wings. It is also a good idea to farm krampus for his sack when you feel like it.

[oCrapaCreeper]

I think it'd be better just to buff the guy who hunts you when you kill the glommer, the hunter being krampus, so there would be no need to nerf the bell.

I think the only way to buff Krampus at this point would be to give him nuclear weaponry or something, he's that bad.

[Karuboo]

I think it'd be better just to buff the guy who hunts you when you kill the glommer, the hunter being krampus, so there would be no need to nerf the bell.

 

I have about 6 old bells and have not killed Glommer once. Usually its hounds that get him and I receive his wings regardless.

[Hugo M.]

Huh, i didnt knew mobs aggroed on him, i almost always kill him before they do, turning the wings into a horrible food (like pigskin) could work, but possibly would make a lot if rage if someone playing as Webber missclicks...

[Joshpro8423]

1) @kirihime, you can still freeze them. Not sure if all.

About the bell, if it was limited to hitting the giant only once, the bigfoot would not step on the same giant twice, maybe move his foot to side. It must hurt to step on deerclops anlteers / firefly spikes.

2) Armor was this strong since forever. The problem is that the cheap armor is so good, the higher tier armors should be able to make you almost invicible. But the giants lack some unique combat mechanic specific to them. For example a fast mele knockback attak you can't dodge if you deal enough damage to them. It would interupt tanking.

3, 4, 5) Crafting is on the list. Items could have a durability buff. The only thing i like to see changed is the feather. I would turn it into a hat / circlet with the feather sticking out on top. It would slowly cool you down if you were moving, maybe make you a bit faster. We have speedup items for hand and body, but not head.

Also. It is easy to lure a giant away, wormhole away from him and wait till next season, with no harm done. I think the main goal of a giant should be to get what he wants (food, structures). And defend himself when you are not leting him. The giants should remember / mark structures that they see (are close to) so when you lose the giant and return to those structures they spawn back nearby. And if you return back after the giant despawns, those marked structures will be destroyed / burned / food gone, when they load. You must defend the base!

I was thinking giving them a variety of attacks instead, like easy-to-dodge swipe attacks and AOE attacks and even rapid attacks that are a killer to tankers, kinda like the variety you can see in games like Terraria where the bosses have multiple attacks.

[Joshpro8423]

Also, the Moose Goose is the easiest of all the giants, like, pathetically easy.

I totally agree, until you kill her and the Moslings go all out on you. I think they should give Goose Moose an AOE attack similar to the Moslings whirlwind attack, then maybe she would be worthy of being called a Boss.

[Joshpro8423]

Since I mentioned twice that the Giants must have a variety of attacks ranging from easy to near-impossible, here's what I think they should have.

1) The easiest giant currently, Goose Moose. I think she should have:

-Her usually headbutt attack as the easiest to dodge.

-A charge attack that does massive damage and is much harder to dodge, but is still possible.

-An AOE attack where she does a whirlwind attack similar to the Moslings that is near-impossible to dodge unless you notice the signs to get out of the way. It should do slightly more damage than the first attack but would hit you a billion times if you get caught in it.

2) Next up, Bearger. He should have:

-The usual swipe he does as the easiest to dodge attack.

-The usual charge he does that damages the player and destroys the surrounding area.

-And the one to be tweaked, the AOE attack. It should do massive damage (maybe 150 or something) and cause the player to fall over, effectively stunning them for a few seconds.

3) Deerclops. He should have:

-His freezing AOE swipe attack for sure as the easiest to dodge (cause it really is).

-Maybe he breathes an icy breath as another AOE attack which will be less easy to dodge. It instantly freeze anything that stands in it.

-A HUGE AOE attack that spawns icicles in the vicinity of the attack and does massive damage. Hard to avoid if you never noticed he was gonna do it.

4) And of course, the current hardest, Dragonfly. He should:

-Do that swipe attack the does fire damage as a start (easy).

-Spit fireballs at the player that will burn away any flammable armor piece, regardless of durability.

-His AOE attack that he does really often currently as the hardest to dodge.

Does anyone else agree with these enhancements? Or does anyone want to suggest another?

[Zamiel]

What does it matter how much weaker they are compared to each other, when none of them are any challenge whatsoever with the two methods in the above post. Either these strategies get nerfed, giants get buffed, or they all remain simple to defeat.

[Ridley]

It's already said that the items will be crafted from drops.

 

And please, getting pretty annoyed with people talking about something like a giant, fire breathing, lava spitting bug and realism in the same post.

 

THOSE AREN'T ACTUALLY REAL?! 

 

 

Edit: I don't use the bell on the giants because I want to know how to kill them without. Like when bearger showed up in adventure mode. Plus, I want to use the bell for messing around instead of winning fights.

[RailgunD]

Maybe reduce the flower to be chance event every full moon.  I think around 25% would be balanced.

[GalloViking]

Giants should become stronger (and have a greater loots) whenever you kill them. Like that, early game giants shouldn't be so hard to kill, but will still be challenging later.

[Doctor H. Derp]

I think the notion that the giants are "endgame bosses" is the wrong idea as opposed to seasonal threats like the Deerclops always was.

 

1. Should the combo be nerfed? Probably.

 

2. Honestly, I'd just find it funny if the log and grass suit were flammable -- like grass and wood walls -- and were virtually ineffective against the dragonfly. Devious sense of humor aside, one of the reasons why the log suit is so great is it's the latest tier that doesn't have a serious drawback, minus the caves items. You see the marble suit gives greater protection at the cost of your speed making it far more likely you're going to get hit as opposed to dodge. The night armour gives you increased protection at the cost of quickly degrading your sanity while worn. As opposed to being a "greater tiered" armor, they're more like a side-grade. You gain in one area, lose in another. The only clear greater tiered armors is the scalemail, which requires you to defeat the hardest boss out of the giants to get in the first place, or the thulecite suit, which is part of what is supposed to be completely optional content and it's kind of unfair to ask the player to deal with non-optional content by doing optional content.

 

4. I think the loot from the giants is fitting for what they are minus the aforementioned down thermantidote. I really wish the Moose Goose or it's moslings dropped something far more worthwhile.

Actually come to think of it, I'm also not a huge fan of the aesthetic of the eyebrella. I never thought I'd live to see the day I'd say this but I've never seen an umbrella with a giant eye on top of it look so... well... boring, especially when compared to the regular umbrella. Seriously, look at all the neat exaggeration and interest that went into the regular umbrella and then look at the eyebrella. Stats aside, which one would you rather have wafting in the wind above your head?

[_Q_]

it takes around 30 tooth traps to kill any giant, no matter what you will do with their stats they will be kilabe that way, always

[Shin]

They shouldn't be so easy to kite. With perfect kiting you can take any giant down without even being hit. (except the dragonfly)