Webber - Recruited spiders should help cut down trees.

[Plague Mouse]

Never have enough chests? How even. 16 wood each, 3 wood per tree, that's 6 trees, or 11 for 2. That's nothing... How many bloody chests do you make? Perhaps consider this a repercussion of your style. I mean, I like carpeted bases and spend days making it. I dont complain about most carpeted areas being defended - in fact, I'd complain about some area not being defended. A bit irrelevant, but the point is the thought towards integrity.

 

Carpet is a luxury and offers no other purpose then that.

Wood floor stops moles and lureplants, it's the most basic kind of floor and the most useful one.

Chests have no upgraded versions like most items, so you're stuck to using wood for 6 slots each, in a game where stacks can go to the small number of ten.

If I intend to play 500+ days in a world, I will be expansionist about it. I'll gather many things, I'll turn each corner of the map upside down to gather all the supplies I can.

Sure you can have a minimalistic way of playing, but I've seen Klei's staff talking about how they enjoy seeing long dated worlds with complex base designs, so it is an element they are aware and support, so it is definitely part of the game.

[Deceiven]

Carpet is a luxury and offers no other purpose then that.

Wood floor stops moles and lureplants, it's the most basic kind of floor and the most useful one.

Chests have no upgraded versions like most items, so you're stuck to using wood for 6 slots each, in a game where stacks can go to the small number of ten.

If I intend to play 500+ days in a world, I will be expansionist about it. I'll gather many things, I'll turn each corner of the map upside down to gather all the supplies I can.

Sure you can have a minimalistic way of playing, but I've seen Klei's staff talking about how they enjoy seeing long dated worlds with complex base designs, so it is an element they are aware and support, so it is definitely part of the game.

 

Sigh. Who can even be bothered arguing with such an irrelevant implementation that'd take only an animation. Whatever, +1.

Yes definitely not an "irrelevant implementation"

[InaneDugong]

Yes definitely not an "irrelevant implementation"

It's pretty irrelevant. It doesn't make the game any more fun, it just makes it easier. Whilst this may translate to 'fun' for you, this novelty only exists for as long as mass chopping has a purpose which only lasts as long as wood holds its appeal. Mass wood, that is - which has very few uses.

[InaneDugong]

Carpet is a luxury and offers no other purpose then that.

Wood floor stops moles and lureplants, it's the most basic kind of floor and the most useful one.

Actually, wiki shows that carpet works for this too. I've never had a problem whilst using carpet with moles either.

Chests have no upgraded versions like most items, so you're stuck to using wood for 6 slots each, in a game where stacks can go to the small number of ten.

Huh? 6 slot what?

Well, planks are 4 wood each and you can have stacks of 10, so that's 5 chests for 2 slots of planks. Zzz, this is really only an issue if you go for a base of wood.

If I intend to play 500+ days in a world, I will be expansionist about it. I'll gather many things, I'll turn each corner of the map upside down to gather all the supplies I can.

Sure you can have a minimalistic way of playing, but I've seen Klei's staff talking about how they enjoy seeing long dated worlds with complex base designs, so it is an element they are aware and support, so it is definitely part of the game.

It definitely is part of the game and intended.

[Plague Mouse]

Actually, wiki shows that carpet works for this too. I've never had a problem whilst using carpet with moles either.

Huh? 6 slot what?

Well, planks are 4 wood each and you can have stacks of 10, so that's 5 chests for 2 slots of planks. Zzz, this is really only an issue if you go for a base of wood.

It definitely is part of the game and intended.

 

Yes, the carpet works for that too, all artificial floors does. What I meant is that the wood floor is the basic version, if you want carpet then it's purely aesthetic based.

 

I meant 9 slots and I obviously talking about the slots of the CHESTS.

Five chests is not nearly enough to store things unless you either never pick anything or you just leave them laying on the ground or burn them. I fill 10 chests easily before 200 days.

 

I don't even get how you can be so skeptical about needing wood all the time, every DS streamer I watch that survives long term are always spending hours chopping wood.

I could go ahead and count how many seconds to chop a tree and dig it's stump for 3 logs and how many uses you'll get out of this 3 logs (none, it's not nearly enough) but like you like to put it: zzzzzzzzzzz.

Can't even imagine how you play this game beyond 60 days.

[DwerBomb]

No.

[InaneDugong]

Yes, the carpet works for that too, all artificial floors does. What I meant is that the wood floor is the basic version, if you want carpet then it's purely aesthetic based.

I meant 9 slots and I obviously talking about the slots of the CHESTS.

Five chests is not nearly enough to store things unless you either never pick anything or you just leave them laying on the ground or burn them. I fill 10 chests easily before 200 days.

I don't even get how you can be so skeptical about needing wood all the time, every DS streamer I watch that survives long term are always spending hours chopping wood.

I could go ahead and count how many seconds to chop a tree and dig it's stump for 3 logs and how many uses you'll get out of this 3 logs (none, it's not nearly enough) but like you like to put it: zzzzzzzzzzz.

Can't even imagine how you play this game beyond 60 days.

(I keep hearing about these streamers but, having a background of competitive rts and moba, they just don't sound all that crash. Shrug).

Chests just seem like a superficial element to item storage. Having many fridges and crock pots, sure, but chests only seem useful when your items have a chance of being stolen or burning. Otherwise, superficial. You already have stuff to stop moleworm and lureplant, so what else is there? Catcoon and wild fire?

Dunno, whatever floats your boats. In the end, it doesn't change the core game, but I'm still going to suggest that it's irrelevant to the core game (which is almost true) besides saving a day or two--and, going by DS's gameplay atm, nothing's going to happen in that time anyway. I guess I should play for base stuffs too, nothing much else to do besides make novelty gamerules for adventure mode or try caves with wes.

[NeoDeusMachina]

I sincerely think that Klei gave everyone an even method of gathering wood and it's called an axe. Some people found more imaginative and efficient ways of gathering it and that's fine. If a character you play is prevented from using these methods and that makes you unhappy about it, I think you should avoid playing the character instead of wanting him to be just like the others. I said it many times, I believe that it is us who need to adapt our gameplay to the character we are playing instead of asking that all the characters be adapted to our gamplay style.

 

I also like to build many chests, to cover up my entire base with wooden/cobble floors and that takes a lot of wood. I never complained about it, because if I decide to build something big, I am prepared to invest a lot of time to harvest the necessary ressources. Rome wasn't built in a single day.

[InaneDugong]

I sincerely think that Klei gave everyone an even method of gathering wood and it's called an axe. Some people found more imaginative and efficient ways of gathering it and that's fine. If a character you play is prevented from using these methods and that makes you unhappy about it, I think you should avoid playing the character instead of wanting him to be just like the others. I said it many times, I believe that it is us who need to adapt our gameplay to the character we are playing instead of asking that all the characters be adapted to our gamplay style.

 

I also like to build many chests, to cover up my entire base with wooden/cobble floors and that takes a lot of wood. I never complained about it, because if I decide to build something big, I am prepared to invest a lot of time to harvest the necessary ressources. Rome wasn't built in a single day.

Hard to know what is intended and what isn't without the devs directly telling us. As a rule of thumb, you tend to assume that long-lasting features are duly intended--but you also tend to assume those who can't balance gameplay dunno what they're doing either. 

 

It can really go either way. The question is: what are the repercussions of not being able to farm Wood with minions vs being able to. If there's a notable difference documented by many attempts and/or some fierce arguments for/against, then there you have it. However, we are really just debating over the length of a string here.

 

Implementing tree-cutting spiders would be as simple as copy/pasting pig code since pigs use their attack animation for chopping too. The question is: 'does it make as much sense as pigs cutting trees', and 'are the perks of spiders held in other fields that compensate for as much in varying gameplay'. 

 

Anyway, dunno where I sit on this discussion. I don't play Webber (tried, but the whole 'spiders attacking neutral companions' ruined the experience). 

[NeoDeusMachina]

Hard to know what is intended and what isn't without the devs directly telling us. As a rule of thumb, you tend to assume that long-lasting features are duly intended--but you also tend to assume those who can't balance gameplay dunno what they're doing either. 

 

It can really go either way. The question is: what are the repercussions of not being able to farm Wood with minions vs being able to. If there's a notable difference documented by many attempts and/or some fierce arguments for/against, then there you have it. However, we are really just debating over the length of a string here.

 

Implementing tree-cutting spiders would be as simple as copy/pasting pig code since pigs use their attack animation for chopping too. The question is: 'does it make as much sense as pigs cutting trees', and 'are the perks of spiders held in other fields that compensate for as much in varying gameplay'. 

 

Anyway, dunno where I sit on this discussion. I don't play Webber (tried, but the whole 'spiders attacking neutral companions' ruined the experience). 

 

Hmm I guess I don't assume much more than ''what is in the code is intended''. For example, pigs can chop down trees = devs wanted them to and coded it so they could.

 

To get back on topic, I wouldn't mind if spiders would chop wood if there was a reason for it other than ''because Webber can't farm wood as efficiently as the other characters''. It is the same for me as if someone said ''give Woodie's beard cold insulation because he can't survive as well during winter as Wilson or Webber (and he has a beard!)''. It's just an example, really, but it illustrates what I don't think should be given as a balancing criteria under any circumstances.

 

I do agree with you on the last part and I think the questions we should really ask ourselves are:

 

''Is Webber's wood gathering capability really bad ? Should it get improved or is it fine as it is ?''

 

''Does it make sense for spiders to chop down trees? if not, what other options do we have?''

[InaneDugong]

Hmm I guess I don't assume much more than ''what is in the code is intended''. For example, pigs can chop down trees = devs wanted them to and coded it so they could.

 

To get back on topic, I wouldn't mind if spiders would chop wood if there was a reason for it other than ''because Webber can't farm wood as efficiently as the other characters''. It is the same for me as if someone said ''give Woodie's beard cold insulation because he can't survive as well during winter as Wilson or Webber (and he has a beard!)''. It's just an example, really, but it illustrates what I don't think should be given as a balancing criteria under any circumstances.

 

I do agree with you on the last part and I think the questions we should really ask ourselves are:

 

''Is Webber's wood gathering capability really bad ? Should it get improved or is it fine as it is ?''

 

''Does it make sense for spiders to chop down trees? if not, what other options do we have?''

Do keep in mind that this game can be considered to be aimed at casuals. Pigs chopping down trees could have just been a novelty implemented for shits n' giggles, ya know? (Sort of like how redonkuluss Birchtrees are and the speculation that they won't change much beyond not spawning as much and not bugging out). It's sometimes hard to tell with such games, particularly regarding age-old mechanics that haven't received any attention besides bug-fixes. 

 

The only problem with comparing character perks to global luxuries/utilities is, well, just that. Webber's inability to collect wood is a far stretch from every other character; however, we do have a predicate for a character that excels at tree foraging. It isn't unreasonable to assume Webber is the inverse, by some strain of logic. 

 

But anyway, it really is about whether the character (post this upcoming patch) balances out to around the same as other chars. I have no problem with Webber simply being different, and it's also significant to note that Spiders tend to spawn in dense Forests thus chopping down trees/industrialisation isn't something they'd support in nature. 

[brummbar7]

Yeah, see, I've never cleared a large enough area to warrant using pigs. I just cut as I need. So, it's hard for me to empathise with this request. Is there a requirement for mass-logging?

I'm always very short for wood in the early game.  3 boards per chest (I usually like to have at least four chest in first settled season), 2 boards per bee box (like to have two to start), 4 boards for alchemy engine, 4 boards for meat effigy, 4 boards for prestihatitor.   That's 26 boards, 5 full stacks of logs.  That doesn't count the miscellaneous things that take straight-up logs.   Or a spring start where you need to fuel the flingers.  

I usually can't get all of those up by the first settled season (meaning the first 20 days after I stop running map edges).   You can definitely get by without pigs, but it's slower to do it yourself.  I still remember when I first found out pigs would chop wood - that was a revalation for me!  Pigs are also a good way for woodie to avoid his transform.    Personally I use pigs quite a bit, even with Maxwell, who gets nothing from their sanity.  So I definitely empathize on that lack.  And it's one of the major reason Webber isn't very attractive to me, the other being the spiders attacking chester.  But I think it's one of Webber's disadvantages, and do not think spiders should be able to chop trees.

[InaneDugong]

I'm always very short for wood in the early game.  3 boards per chest (I usually like to have at least four chest in first settled season), 2 boards per bee box (like to have two to start), 4 boards for alchemy engine, 4 boards for meat effigy, 4 boards for prestihatitor.   That's 26 boards, 5 full stacks of logs.  That doesn't count the miscellaneous things that take straight-up logs.   Or a spring start where you need to fuel the flingers.  

I usually can't get all of those up by the first settled season (meaning the first 20 days after I stop running map edges).   You can definitely get by without pigs, but it's slower to do it yourself.  I still remember when I first found out pigs would chop wood - that was a revalation for me!  Pigs are also a good way for woodie to avoid his transform.    Personally I use pigs quite a bit, even with Maxwell, who gets nothing from their sanity.  So I definitely empathize on that lack.  And it's one of the major reason Webber isn't very attractive to me, the other being the spiders attacking chester.  But I think it's one of Webber's disadvantages, and do not think spiders should be able to chop trees.

(I'm absolutely certain that spiders attacking Chester and Glommer is a bug).

 

I suppose, as a comparison for gameplay, I don't get prestihatitor up until my 3rd to 4th season. I'll tech to Alch during my second season and only get my science engine up towards the end of the first. So, in comparison, I barely tech at all and don't look to get for much base-play. 

 

I tend to look for something novel I can do over 100 days and then stick to it. Sometimes I'll build in the middle of a spider nest (not as Webber either), or near a tonne of ponds, etc. The base-play isn't much my style and, for this, my teching is very slow. Sometimes I'll find the Ancient Pseudoscience thing before I build a Prestihatitor or, very often, before my Shadow Manipulator. 

 

I suppose I'll go for a playthrough involving base-play and see what it's like - because I really can't relate with these Wood problems. Having said all this, Webber doesn't strike me much as a base character. Pigs build homes. Spiders roam the nights. Webber seems much more like a minimalistic character than the others. Just a thought on lore.