Wargs part of Hound Attacks - multiplayer balance idea included OPTION 4

[CaptainClam]

Are you making a suggestion? This would be true in general, but I haven't implied that the Varg does drop any special loot here.

Sorry, that was a suggestion. Just worded a bit weirdly I suppose.

[9wpuv]

Are you making a suggestion? This would be true in general, but I haven't implied that the Varg does drop any special loot here.

Well I guess the better way to put this is who doesn't think the Varg should have a unique drop.

[J20hawkz]

Well I guess the better way to put this is who doesn't think the Varg should have a unique drop.

I did think of that. But I have to agree with @Tumalu in keeping Vargs encountered from hunting/tracking unique. So if Vargs were to drop any special loot it should only be from those, not for Vargs in hound attacks. On top of that I suggest Vargs accompanying hounds in hound attacks shouldn't drop anything or maybe drop less loot than what they are programmed to drop currently. Maybe 1-2 hound tooth and 3-5 monster meat.

I like the suggestion of a new coloured Varg suggested by @The Letter W. However I suggest that a new darker furred Varg accompany Hounds during hound attacks. A black Varg would look epic!

[9wpuv]

I did think of that. But I have to agree with @Tumalu in keeping Vargs encountered from hunting/tracking unique. So if Vargs were to drop any special loot it should only be from those, not for Vargs in hound attacks. On top of that I suggest Vargs accompanying hounds in hound attacks shouldn't drop anything or maybe drop less loot than what they are programmed to drop currently. Maybe 1-2 hound tooth and 3-5 monster meat.

I like the suggestion of a new coloured Varg suggested by @The Letter W. However I suggest that a new darker furred Varg accompany Hounds during hound attacks. A black Varg would look epic!

I personally don't see the point of this kind of differentiation. A Varg si a Varg, the 5% chance of getting one when going for koalefant is just some risk added to the koalefant which can be easily cut down. And why should they drop less than tracking Vargs? At that point in the game, would it really matter? At least that's my take on it.

[J20hawkz]

I personally don't see the point of this kind of differentiation. A Varg is a Varg, the 5% chance of getting one when going for koalefant is just some risk added to the koalefant which can be easily cut down. And why should they drop less than tracking Vargs? At that point in the game, would it really matter? At least that's my take on it.

So you're happy with my original suggestion? That Vargs should work the same way irrespective of them being in hound attacks or tracked down?

In regards to special loot dropped. How about a new fur hat and/or armour? Or even better a new Hound Tooth Boomerang.

"Tootherang"

[9wpuv]

So you're happy with my original suggestion? That Vargs should work the same way irrespective of them being in hound attacks or tracked down?

In regards to special loot dropped. How about a new fur hat and/or armour? Or even better a new Hound Tooth Boomerang.

"Tootherang"

Personally I think they should work the same regardless where they come from. As for the loot... beats me. I don't really feel the need for another type of hat / clothes / armor / weapon. But hey, if that's what people want... 

[TheKingofSquirrels]

@Lauri455 Good point. But my suggestion clearly states that Vargs which have a chance of spawning DURING hound attacks DON'T have the ability to spawn hounds. So that nullifies your concern.

Next. To make a compromise. If 10 hounds spawn we can make it so that when a Varg spawns it takes up two places for hounds spawning. So in a pack of 10 hounds if one Varg spawns then only 8 hounds will accompany a Varg and no more.

In all honesty you shouldn't be trying to run away to get rid of them. Early game you want to lead hounds to beefalo, pigs, tentacles (depending on your location). Late game you'll have so many traps set up, no matter if 100 hounds (OTT) spawn you shouldn't have a problem.

Does that help? Please share your thoughts.

@Tumalu Please explain the unreliable nature of having your own large anti hound defence system set up? As things are now I don't find dealing with large hound attacks frustrating or difficult. I know roughly when a hound attack is coming so I don't linger from base. All I do is stand in the middle of a large 80 or so patch of tooth traps and watch as all the hounds are destroyed on its border, it's not challenging at all.

This may not be 80 but it's a good example: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=220248087

Also please explain the impossible nature of dealing with hound attacks without outside help? If you set up base properly near pigs and beefalo, dealing with hound attacks is a breeze. Slowly you gather a large amount of resources which enable you to make your own protection. If you're playing the game right you should inevitably come to a point in game, where you won't need outside help.

I would love to hear your thoughts.

@TheKingofSquirrels This isn't a valid reason. But it's good that you pointed it out. If Vargs do spawn in the normal hound attacks we are so accustomed to, they won't leave foot prints. So that isn't an issue.

Secondly and more importantly, adding the chance of Vargs spawning in normal hound attacks will keeps things fresh. You'll get something different or a chance of something different occurring during regular hound attacks. I could have suggested any monster accompanying hounds to keep things "fresh". I could have even suggested blue hounds accompanying hounds (Klei just did this for Spring), but I chose to go with a more alpha male type leader monster. The natural monster that currently fits that trend is a Varg.

Also to keep hunting unique Vargs that spawn in hound attacks don't drop anything, or can drop the odd tooth. So if you dislike or have never been hunting, seeing a Varg for the first time in a hound attack, will encourage the player to do so, just to get its loot.

 

I don´t understand why you say it´s not a valid reason. I´m saying that this is something that is an existing problem in the game! If the whole catch of the Warg is that the you get the footprints between a Koalefent confused with the one of a Warg...That doesn't make sense because you would see the footprints of the hounds...They need to change this, so The Warg is a solo creature. And your post isn´t helping!

 

Something different? The novelty of your idea will run out after a while and it will honestly change nothing. The Warg will just die like the other hounds by Beefalo or traps, it really doesn´t add anything either interesting or challenging to the concept.

 

So you would very happily have Deerclops attack with hounds?.... -.- Sigh* This is the problem! You are just destroying the mystery and the awe these creatures have with their presence by forcing them in awkward places and making them less special in the game. Please stop.

[J20hawkz]

@TheKingofSquirrels sorry I'm not following you mate. As things are now in order to get a chance of a Varg spawning we have to follow footprints correct?

The fact they don't want to change the footprint from Koalefant to Varg is because when we go tracking we aren't tracking Vargs. Klei added in Vargs to add to that surprise element in game. If we knew a Varg would spawn instead of a Koalefent, by differences in footprints there wouldn't be a surprise.

Can you please clarify your point about hound footprints please.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

@TheKingofSquirrels sorry I'm not following you mate. As things are now in order to get a chance of a Varg spawning we have to follow footprints correct?

The fact they don't want to change the footprint from Koalefant to Varg is because when we go tracking we aren't tracking Vargs. Klei added in Vargs to add to that surprise element in game. If we knew a Varg would spawn instead of a Koalefent, by differences in footprints there wouldn't be a surprise.

Can you please clarify your point about hound footprints please.

 

The Warg was introduced so there would be a chance of every now and then having a horrible surprise that the footprints you were tracking were not actually from a Koalefant, but from a horrible creature that´s going to kill you. That´s awesome and I love that.

My problem comes with the hounds. If you were unknowingly tracking a Warg, wouldn´t there be tracks of the hounds it runs around with? There would be multiple footprints. I understand that it's a very minor detail, but it still bothers me. That´s why I wish the Warg was a solo creature, just because it makes more sense in that context.

I hope that´s more clear now. What do you think about my other points?

 

 

[J20hawkz]

The Warg was introduced so there would be a chance of every now and then having a horrible surprise that the footprints you were tracking were not actually from a Koalefant, but from a horrible creature that´s going to kill you. That´s awesome and I love that.

My problem comes with the hounds. If you were unknowingly tracking a Warg, wouldn´t there be tracks of the hounds it runs around with? There would be multiple footprints. I understand that it's a very minor detail, but it still bothers me. That´s why I wish the Warg was a solo creature, just because it makes more sense in that context.

I hope that´s more clear now. What do you think about my other points?

I apologise if I am misunderstanding you mate. Let me just clarify a point then you can correct me if I am wrong.

What I am suggesting doesn't involve tracking. Vargs will have a chance of spawning with the regular hound attacks that we get. I am not changing or suggesting we remove tracking. This is a separate idea to add to that.

The reason why I said your reason was invalid to my suggestion is because I am not suggesting tracking so no footprints will be involved.

Also Vargs will start to spawn late game. So by then if the player abused tracking he/she would have already seen multiple Vargs. I personally don't agree the novelty of Vargs appearing in regular hound attacks late game will be destroyed. In fact it will make things much more challenging and appealing than just seeing 10 hounds keep spawning over and over.

[TheKingofSquirrels]

I apologise if I am misunderstanding you mate. Let me just clarify a point then you can correct me if I am wrong.

What I am suggesting doesn't involve tracking. Vargs will have a chance of spawning with the regular hound attacks that we get. I am not changing or suggesting we remove tracking. This is a separate idea to add to that.

The reason why I said your reason was invalid to my suggestion is because I am not suggesting tracking so no footprints will be involved.

 

I´m talking about what exists right now in the game. I wish they would get rid of the connection between the Warg and Hounds in the game for the reasons I´ve mentioned. 

 

Now in regards to your idea, which is a separate thing from the Koalefant and involves no footprints, I don´t like it simply because it reinforces that relationship between the Hounds and Warg, which like I said, I´m not a fan of. Also, I think it´s kind of pointless and repeating the Warg in that way feels cheap and boring in my opinion. 

 

Tell me if you are still confused. Cheers

[9wpuv]

I don´t like it simply because it reinforces that relationship between the Hounds and Warg, which like I said, I´m not a fan of. Also, I think it´s kind of pointless and repeating the Warg in that way feels cheap and boring in my opinion.

The Varg could summon hounds from the get go-so the connection has been made a priori. If you don't like it why not start a poll, break the connection beween Varg and hounds, make it so he can't spawn them anymore. Hey, if this is what people want, although I highly doubt it, then this is what people want.

[J20hawkz]

@TheKingofSquirrels Ah! So you dislike the Varg and Hound (V&H) connection in place already. Well that's cool, I guess everyone has their own tastes right.

Well I can't really persuade you to like my idea then lol. My suggestion focuses heavily on the fact of Hounds attacking us in normal attacks. The only way Vargs would become as majestic as you say is then they don't have the ability to call for hounds when you track for Koalefant and you encounter a Varg by chance. I personally like the idea hence why I wish my suggestion was possible.

[J20hawkz]

Sorry, that was a suggestion. Just worded a bit weirdly I suppose.

I thought it was. No problem mate.

[Grimr]

unsure about the varg thingie in the hounds attack, for two reasons.

 

1. EVERY single time I've managed to find those damn tracks its had that bloody thing at the end, 4 times now, in my current world (day 88) and i still havent figured out how to deal with him. Can't really 'lure' him to my befeelo pack, of my tallbird camp since all he does is summon those bloody hounds. Had an go at him with 6 pigs but no puck.

 

2. In how we deal with hounds currently most use some sort of death valley setup (loads of tooth traps with forced path for hounds) but since he would just stand inside your field of view and summon hound after hound, you basicly could farm for loads of toothtraps and monster meat, without any real threat. That's assuming he would summon hounds constantly and not a fixed number.

[J20hawkz]

@Grimr hopefully this will change your mind

1. First of all you must be super lucky or super unlucky (depends on how you see it) to keep getting Vargs spawn at the end of tracks. I believe it's a 5% chance early on and 33% after day 100. More importantly my suggestion of having Vargs spawn in the regular hound attacks WON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO SPAWN MORE HOUNDS. So if you get 8 hounds and 1 Varg in later hound attacks, that's all you get.

2. Again Vargs won't have the ability to spawn hounds IF they accompany Hounds in regular hound attacks.

[Grimr]

@J20hawkz

 

Would argue unlucky, havent been able to take one of them down yet, currently out looking for mandrakes to make that damn pan flute thing and hope i that way with the bell can get it out of my bee farm >.< (the latest one that spawned on me)

 

wouldent it be more challangeing to let the season giant have a chance to spawn aswell as the normal hounds? Might be to much but im sure there is someone out there who can figure out to deal with that. Just a thought

[9wpuv]

Would argue unlucky, havent been able to take one of them down yet, currently out looking for mandrakes to make that damn pan flute thing and hope i that way with the bell can get it out of my bee farm >.< (the latest one that spawned on me)

they nerfed the bell so it now wakes up sleeping creatures. ringing the bell first then playing the flute also doesn't work. go for mandrake soup. or flute if you have gunpowder.

[J20hawkz]

@J20hawkz

 

Would argue unlucky, havent been able to take one of them down yet, currently out looking for mandrakes to make that damn pan flute thing and hope i that way with the bell can get it out of my bee farm >.< (the latest one that spawned on me)

 

wouldent it be more challangeing to let the season giant have a chance to spawn aswell as the normal hounds? Might be to much but im sure there is someone out there who can figure out to deal with that. Just a thought

@Grimr

I wouldn't mind, but it wouldn't look as cool as a large Varg leading a pack of blood thirsty hounds.

[ArcticFox789]

Talking about the Wargs footprints, I've always imagined it as the Warg has beaten you to it and eaten the Koalefant, not that the Warg is leaving the trail behind, basically because (unless I got this wrong), the tracks don't change, so why would a Warg have an Elephant-like footprint?

[Grimr]

@Grimr

I wouldn't mind, but it wouldn't look as cool as a large Varg leading a pack of blood thirsty hounds.

true, they are quite terrifieing!

 

@9wpuv there goes that plan, gunpowder is .. well very limited right now, my two stone fields with nitre is either covered with level 2 or spider lairs and knowing my luck, i get queens out of all level 3's and the other field is full of tallbirds. Was thinking i could freeze it, then deal with the hounds with my pig army and then bash on him with that

[J20hawkz]

Talking about the Wargs footprints, I've always imagined it as the Warg has beaten you to it and eaten the Koalefant, not that the Warg is leaving the trail behind, basically because (unless I got this wrong), the tracks don't change, so why would a Warg have an Elephant-like footprint?

Same here. I wanted to say this earlier, must have slipped my mind.

[The Letter W]

Would this be an option you can turn off though? Like if a player chose to, they could just have the regular Hound attacks? (Seeing as some people are quite opposed to it)

Like it wouldn't turn Wargs off completely, just in Hound waves.

 

(sorry if you already covered this, i skimmed through from where I last posted)

[J20hawkz]

Would this be an option you can turn off though? Like if a player chose to, they could just have the regular Hound attacks? (Seeing as some people are quite opposed to it)

Like it wouldn't turn Wargs off completely, just in Hound waves.

(sorry if you already covered this, i skimmed through from where I last posted)

@The Letter W this my friend is an awesome idea. Having a separate option in world customisation to turn Vargs spawning in regular hound attacks on and off is a great idea. I wonder if this would be a compromise to those who are against the idea and those unsure.

I'll add this idea to the OP.

[Grimr]

@The Letter W this my friend is an awesome idea. Having a separate option in world customisation to turn Vargs spawning in regular hound attacks on and off is a great idea. I wonder if this would be a compromise to those who are against the idea and those unsure.

I'll add this idea to the OP.

that's an idea i kinda like. and allows those who struggle with him, like my self, to not worry about him, until a plan or solution is formed and at the same time gives more challenges to the game.

 

As for what he should drop (the one in the hound attack) just leave that as a few monster meat, though i would say the current one at the end of the tracks do seam a bit lacking with special item. could add thick fur or any number of other things to what he could drop, ofc at a quite low chance.

 

Given the vote "yes"