Webber suggestions and balance

[Amkar]

Webber will be able to craft spider dens for something along the lines of 12 silk, 6 spider glands and 6 papyrus. I'm also going to give Webber the ability to upgrade spider dens using silk. This should make it easier to turn your base into an lovely spider resort, and give you more freedom as to where you set up your base.

 

Will these manually upgraded dens still cycle back to tier 1 or become queens? Because that may seem somewhat like a waste of resources if they do.

 

Although silk shouldn't be too much of a problem as Webber, so that might not be so bad in the game as it might sound on paper.

[Ridley]

The spiders eating dropped food loot is not a big deal. Stand nearby and just hold space bar which will near instantly catch the food. Doesn't work well on some creatures like the kolaphant, but you don't need a army to kill a kolaphant. If you think you do, you just ain't doing it right.

 

 

Webber with night vision? Only should be a mod. Webber would be extremely easy to play at that point.

 

I don't understand a good portion of these Webber suggestions. I feel like some people are trying to take out the puzzles in learning how to use him, or maybe think disadvantages don't add anything to the play style.

[An Artifact]

The spiders eating dropped food loot is not a big deal. Stand nearby and just hold space bar which will near instantly catch the food. Doesn't work well on some creatures like the kolaphant, but you don't need a army to kill a kolaphant. If you think you do, you just ain't doing it right.

 

 

Webber with night vision? Only should be a mod. Webber would be extremely easy to play at that point.

 

I don't understand a good portion of these Webber suggestions. I feel like some people are trying to take out the puzzles in learning how to use him, or maybe think disadvantages don't add anything to the play style.

It wouldn't be just plain night vision, it would be night vision + bad vision and sanity drain during day time. Because spiders are nocturnal and scared of the light. The reason why that is as big of a deal as it is is mostly due to the fact that all the other spiders come out during dusk, so basically they stand up when Webber has his sleepy time. I, for one, like the idea of Webber being active at night and sleepy and scared during daytime.

[joulesFect]

Ho ! Quite a lot of activity while I was away and a lot of posts I want to reply to ! Time to use the multiquote function !

Hey guys, thanks for testing Webber so thoroughly. This is exactly why we do early access - to make our games better. Don't Starve takes a long time to play, I simply didn't have enough time to give Webber anything more than a couple short plays before we released him. 

 

I'm going to make some tweaks to Webber.

• Spiders attacking your followers is unintended and I'll fix that.
• Spiders eating your meat is by design - it's meant to make you think about having a large army of spiders for easy fights or a smaller group of spiders and some loot at the end. That said, I'm going to add a small delay to when they eat food, maybe a second or two.
• The sanity loss for eating monster meat will be removed.
• Webber's beard will grow faster. It already gives insulation.
• Webber will be able to craft spider dens for something along the lines of 12 silk, 6 spider glands and 6 papyrus. I'm also going to give Webber the ability to upgrade spider dens using silk. This should make it easier to turn your base into an lovely spider resort, and give you more freedom as to where you set up your base.

 

Spiders not coming out of their dens to investigate you is intended. 

 

Thanks ! That's exactly the kinds of tweaks I was looking forward to ! It'll be awsome to have our own spider kindom ! I trust you guys at Klei not to make him OP though ! 

 

See everyone? We just had to trust in Webber. and now we get what we wanted.

 

You mean have trust in Bryce ?

 

Would it be possible that the meat eaten by the spiders counted to the loyalty time? Like you are leading them to food instead of hiring them like greedy pigs.

 

This is a brilliant idea, I second that. My only fear is that will all of the other additions it will actually make Webber too powerfull... Wait and see.

 

The problemw ith the spiders eating your meat though, is that even with 4 spiders, if they attack the target that you're attacking, they instantly gobble everything up the second it dies. They even do it BEFORE taking another target!

 

The small delay Bryce was talking about should help fix that. He said they eat you're stuff by design and I'm OK with that. It would just be nice to get a better chance of getting at least some of the loot.

 

Will these manually upgraded dens still cycle back to tier 1 or become queens? Because that may seem somewhat like a waste of resources if they do.

 

Although silk shouldn't be too much of a problem as Webber, so that might not be so bad in the game as it might sound on paper.

 

Waste of ressources ? What if the den was close to your base ? You get a spider queen to help defend yourself !

 

I don't understand a good portion of these Webber suggestions. I feel like some people are trying to take out the puzzles in learning how to use him, or maybe think disadvantages don't add anything to the play style.

 

I get your point. I'm fine with disadvantages. The problem is that there was no real benefit to having those disadventages or the benefits were trivial in the sence that what they gave was negligable compared to what they took away from the core don't starve experience, I think that the ajustments proposed by Bryce are spot on if they are well balanced in their implementation so that it stays challenging.

[Skorp]

This is a brilliant idea, I second that. My only fear is that will all of the other additions it will actually make Webber too powerfull... Wait and see.

The meat would run out eventually, leaving you with an army of hungry spiders who had eaten all the food and will remain loyal only for the next couple of days. A spider rebellion / cannibalism would be fun but sadly I don't think it will happen.

[Ridley]

It wouldn't be just plain night vision, it would be night vision + bad vision and sanity drain during day time. Because spiders are nocturnal and scared of the light. The reason why that is as big of a deal as it is is mostly due to the fact that all the other spiders come out during dusk, so basically they stand up when Webber has his sleepy time. I, for one, like the idea of Webber being active at night and sleepy and scared during daytime.

 

Most of the day is day light, so bad vision would get old fast. Webber is part human, so he doesn't have all the strengths of both sides.

[Amkar]

Waste of ressources ? What if the den was close to your base ? You get a spider queen to help defend yourself !

 

Well, maybe not so much the queen, but the den turning back to tier 1.

[oCrapaCreeper]

Hey guys, thanks for testing Webber so thoroughly. This is exactly why we do early access - to make our games better. Don't Starve takes a long time to play, I simply didn't have enough time to give Webber anything more than a couple short plays before we released him. 

 

I'm going to make some tweaks to Webber.

• Spiders attacking your followers is unintended and I'll fix that.
• Spiders eating your meat is by design - it's meant to make you think about having a large army of spiders for easy fights or a smaller group of spiders and some loot at the end. That said, I'm going to add a small delay to when they eat food, maybe a second or two.
• The sanity loss for eating monster meat will be removed.
• Webber's beard will grow faster. It already gives insulation.
• Webber will be able to craft spider dens for something along the lines of 12 silk, 6 spider glands and 6 papyrus. I'm also going to give Webber the ability to upgrade spider dens using silk. This should make it easier to turn your base into an lovely spider resort, and give you more freedom as to where you set up your base.

 

Spiders not coming out of their dens to investigate you is intended. 

So are these tweaks going to come around in a hotfix or the next main update?

[Lestarver]

I honestly have to agree on a few of these points. Due to the sanity reduction, you will still shy away from eating monster meat, which is a pretty weird design choice. I initially thought that this would balance out because spiders would have a sanity aura, but it turned out they didn't.

 

Spiders, although you can make a bunch of them follow you at once, aren't the greatest followers since they'll eat all the meat INStANTLY. At least pigs take a few moments to realize that there's an extremely valuable deerclops eyeball on the ground and that it would be a great idea to gobble it up. So spiders are no good for farming anything that you plan on eating.

 

It IS a nice and stylish bonus that seeing a rocky biome filled with spider nests makes you instantly feel comforted. I just wish there would've been more done with the whole spider deal. For instance, I thought Webber would have night vision and instead impaled vision during the day, or maybe even big sanity drains from just being out in the sunlight. Having him be just like any other character with the day/night business makes his spider army feature very awkward to use, since spiders are in bed at day.

 

I don't know how the rest of you feel about this, but I would love it if we could have a more spider-like character. I know that there is technically a human inside, but still. I understand that sleeping in spider dens would be pretty op, so I won't suggest it, but nightvision, sanity reduction and impaled vision during the day? Pwease. If you think that nightvision would be too op in the caves (Willow can already pretty much do the same down there anyway), I would say Webber's low stats and the instant agressions of the bunnymen would balance that out.

night vision feels nice having all the time for working but there will be nothing called grue once you have it in real life spiders they only see within few radius nor it is day or night

[Hugos10]

Actually, maybe you would have the option to "Tap" A den during the day to make a spider come out (Regular if 1-2, Warrior is 3, Queen if 4) Also, spider queen DEFINITELY needs to be tamed with a special item. How about a Koalafant's Trunk?

[BipedalBear]

I found a plus side! Webber can exploit cave camp boon and be safe in labyrinth. In other words, he is the god of caves. 

[NeoDeusMachina]

I found a plus side! Webber can exploit cave camp boon and be safe in labyrinth. In other words, he is the god of caves. 

Indeed.

 

Has anyone tested if the (cave spiders/dangling depth dwellers) are neutral towards Webber ? Can they be befriended ?

 

I know chester triggers the spider web of regular spider dens during the day, so I'm thinking he probably triggers the cave/dweller ones as well, which could make it possible for Webber to befriend them...

[Bizrate]

I love the ideas portrayed in the thread and the KLEI response is always great to hear but I have one concern that a few other people have brought up.

 

Wilson's beard/Webber Beard. Insulation on both and both are shaved for their respective items. Seems a bit similar, Wilson should gain the benefit of the beard for warmth only, before I am tossed on the chopping block for that let me run past the next reason...

 

Webber's Silk beard I think should be a Cooling effect. "Silky Smooth" "Cool as Silk" 2 base phrases that I think of when I hear Silk. With summer and heat being a factor why not have a reverse Wilson beard for webber? Make him get cooler with the beard this would allow a few things:

 

- a slightly easier summer since we have heat now

- Wilson to remain more of a solid option

- A risk-benefit question for the player "Do I let the beard grow for the silk in the winter and risk freezing to death easier?" (The reverse could apply to wilson's beard..)

 

The third I feel would be the most important aspect of the game in general, "When should I start letting the beard grow?" "If I start at day X to let it grow will it be maxed in time to be a benefit?" "If I start it too soon can I stay safe if there is a sudden chill/heat wave?"

 

Just my two-cents on something that would make Wilson Wilson still, and Webber more his own unique character all wrapped up in what could be a neat niche for playing off of the new season heat/cool mechanics

[Wenderlly]

• Spiders eating your meat is by design - it's meant to make you think about having a large army of spiders for easy fights or a smaller group of spiders and some loot at the end. That said, I'm going to add a small delay to when they eat food, maybe a second or two.

Fair enough, otherwise he would be too op. Glad about the delay though!

 

 

• The sanity loss for eating monster meat will be removed.

So can we finally eat some lasagna or this it's for monster meat only?

 

 

• Webber's beard will grow faster. It already gives insulation.

I'd hope it gave some wetness resistance instead of cold resistance. Doesn't seems right silk warming you...

 

 

• Webber will be able to craft spider dens for something along the lines of 12 silk, 6 spider glands and 6 papyrus. I'm also going to give Webber the ability to upgrade spider dens using silk. This should make it easier to turn your base into an lovely spider resort, and give you more freedom as to where you set up your base.

Haha, that's great! Looking foward to building my own spider resort.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback, Bryce.

[Lestarver]

what if webber could spit like spitter and deal only 5 damage (think only 5 you would shoot 20 times) maybe slow them down?? imo it would have been great 

[Strangerdanger101]

what if webber could spit like spitter and deal only 5 damage (think only 5 you would shoot 20 times) maybe slow them down?? imo it would have been great 

Then the ability would be almost useless if it only did that much damage.

[Lestarver]

Then the ability would be almost useless if it only did that much damage.

well then 10 damage and it is infinite or maybe 20 damage and has 125 life stat

[An Artifact]

Most of the day is day light, so bad vision would get old fast. Webber is part human, so he doesn't have all the strengths of both sides.

During winter, nights are longer. With impaled vision during day, he ain't got all the strengths. Plus, everything in the world hates him because of how he looks.

[Ridley]

During winter, nights are longer. With impaled vision during day, he ain't got all the strengths.

 

Summer has barely any night, so summer would be terrible to play through. Spring and Autumn have way more daylight than night as well.

 

What this would do, is create a caves character. Which wouldn't mesh well with the new ROG stuff.

[An Artifact]

Summer has barely any night, so summer would be terrible to play through. Spring and Autumn have way more daylight than night as well.

 

What this would do, is create a caves character. Which wouldn't mesh well with the new ROG stuff.

Summer is always terrible to play though.

[Ridley]

Summer is always terrible to play though.

 

Lets not make it worse then.

[xatster]

I was just playing Webber, And the sanity from monster meat caused me to go insane rather fast. I built a tent and when I tried to sleep in it at night it said that he couldn't sleep cause there were monsters nearby. The only monsters were my friends (spiders) so thats broken. As well. Getting spiders out of their dens during the day is hard. I think that something should be done so that we are able to get yellow spiders out without having to whack the place and make everyone upset. Thats just asking for a domestic violence call... all in all he is the coolest looking but hasn't taken Wes place for me yet. Keep up the good work Klei

[An Artifact]

I was just playing Webber, And the sanity from monster meat caused me to go insane rather fast. I built a tent and when I tried to sleep in it at night it said that he couldn't sleep cause there were monsters nearby. The only monsters were my friends (spiders) so thats broken. As well. Getting spiders out of their dens during the day is hard. I think that something should be done so that we are able to get yellow spiders out without having to whack the place and make everyone upset. Thats just asking for a domestic violence call... all in all he is the coolest looking but hasn't taken Wes place for me yet. Keep up the good work Klei

It's not the spiders, it's Webber himself, he's considered a monster. Strangely, sleeping on a bed roll works.

[Hugos10]

I was just playing Webber, And the sanity from monster meat caused me to go insane rather fast. I built a tent and when I tried to sleep in it at night it said that he couldn't sleep cause there were monsters nearby. The only monsters were my friends (spiders) so thats broken. As well. Getting spiders out of their dens during the day is hard. I think that something should be done so that we are able to get yellow spiders out without having to whack the place and make everyone upset. Thats just asking for a domestic violence call... all in all he is the coolest looking but hasn't taken Wes place for me yet. Keep up the good work Klei

 

How about my "tap" idea?

[Sideview]

First of, i love Webber.

 

But... His beard... This silky beard... Nope. I really don't like how it looks, and i really don't like how it works just like a copy of wilson's beard. And i'm pretty sure i'm not the only one to think like that.

 

So I had an idea when looking at a catcoon : could it be possible to just make him spit/sneeze/vomit 1-2 pieces of silk every 3-4 days ?

I don't think this would be game breaking (2 pieces every 4 days : 8 pieces in 16 days).

 

The number of days between each sneeze can also vary with each season : every 2 days in spring ("Haaa not that hay fever again !"/"I'm getting silk with all this rain"), every 6 days in summer ("Where did that come from ?"), every 4 days in autumn ("It's getting colder."), every 3 days in winter ("Atchoo !"/"Oooh... So cold...").

 

That's original and could be really funny