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Doomfan64

A bunch of misc. suggestions for the environment (Not by me)

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Doomfan64    187

So, a long time ago, in an infamous thread that got locked due to all the fighting, a user by the name of InaneDugong said some very insightful things on how we should be improving the difficulty of Don't Starve. I agreed with every single thing he said there, and thought that the game would be way better if it all existed. And you have the option now to not buy the DLC if you don't want the massive hardmode changes.

 

Unfortunatly, amongst all the other debate in that thread, the suggestions were completely ignored. And now, with RoG coming out, an expansion pack that (so far) is focused on making the environment tougher, I thought it would be a nice time to share the suggestions in the thread. As well as the issues he brought up. Also, the forum change in 2013 made the whole thing into a wall of text, so I will transcribe it here.

 

-Item tiering in terms of weapons is just overly tedious and devoid of actual gameplay beyond MMORPG elements. You also have a stack of items that don't seem to have any logical use, such as Sleep Darts or Gunpowder. Sure, they are novel approaches to the integrity of DS's immersion, but they are still abstract. Hell, I have to spend all my time building up a village to make my winters as easy as possible.

 

-Parish interactions are far too limited. For example; Swamps. What is the actual purpose of exploring swamps? I can get a spiked weapon? Some reeds? Swamps make dreadfully taunting sounds as you trot on by but pose no actual threat. What if swamp lands grew bigger as threats like merms or tentacles weren't removed? (Similar to Spider Dens)

 

-Hatching your own minions seems nothing but novel cuteness.

 

-Fortifications take forever to set up and are completely redundant. The only things in this game that are actively trying to kill you are so strong that the walls aren't going to stop it unless you add further protection, adding on another decade of time to the already huge time needed to construct them.

 

-Naughtiness is the most underused yet impressive mechanic I've come across. Why is this practically being removed instead of being reworked to tie in more than just Santa Claus's resource relocating? I remember this mechanic in the early days of Don't Starve and feeling like the world actually wanted me dead.

 

-What if the game rewarded players for trying to brave the environment? Or punished players for trying to isolate themselves from it? To expand, there should be a system for natural disasters like sandstorms, typhoons, etc. The game already has some weather events, but what if these events were directly tied in with the activity of the player and had specific consequences? What if the land in which a player stayed the most on directly affected the consequences of the environment dealt with? And what if each land type was further exaggerated?

 

-What if forests were constantly darker and perhaps reduced line-of-sight? What if it reduced sanity? What if swamps were so pestilence-ridden that food rotted faster or hunger fatigue was increased? 

 

-What if the game differentiated very clearly between the character's subconscious malevolence - ever so keen on killing our protagonist - and the environment which is merely self-preserving?

 

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Joshpro8423    45

How about more consequences for doing certain things, like how they did for chopping too many trees down? (It gets harder the higher the day counter is. I got two before at once.)

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rodoto    49

I think he was a bit extreme for some points for example the walls: it can just be something to make your base more beautiful or to create a panic room for hound attack. It's just cool to get them only to play with them and give you the feeling to really build your base.

 

Finally, I only agree with the question of the naughtiness: I don't know what was the first version which seem to don't exist anymore but I think too that there should be more consequences to your choices. For example, killing innocent creatures will increase the chances to encounter treeguards, spider queens, and maybe the upcoming giants !

 

I really think that naughtiness consequences should be increased.

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MeingroessterFan    4,139

Some of these points are put a bit harshly and over the top, but the essence, I agree with. I feel like especially the use of walls, environmental effects and the momentarily useless weapons and items should be worked on, and the whole naughtiness thing I completely agree with. I thought the idea was that it was a challenge to NOT get attacked by Krampus, not that it should be challenging to get him to show up.

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Doomfan64    187

it can just be something to make your base more beautiful or to create a panic room for hound attack.

 

Finally, I only agree with the question of the naughtiness: I don't know what was the first version which seem to don't exist anymore but I think too that there should be more consequences to your choices. For example, killing innocent creatures will increase the chances to encounter treeguards, spider queens, and maybe the upcoming giants !

 

I really think that naughtiness consequences should be increased.

I realized what you said about the walls, but for an item with four tiers, there need to be way more uses. Especially since the first two are basically useless for panic rooms because of red hounds. As for making the base look pretty, that's nice and all, but every other aesthetic item in the game has SOME practical use (Clothing warms you or regenerates sanity, flooring keeps lureplants out, etc.) The only item I can think of that doesn't is the pitchfork and turf, but really they need a use too.

 

I think stacking everything onto killing innocent animals is unoriginal and taking the uniqueness out of Krampus. I preferred to see it as other methods of gaining progress like crafting warming/cooling clothing, exploring a % of the map, using gears as WX, etc.

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rodoto    49

I realized what you said about the walls, but for an item with four tiers, there need to be way more uses. Especially since the first two are basically useless for panic rooms because of red hounds. As for making the base look pretty, that's nice and all, but every other aesthetic item in the game has SOME practical use (Clothing warms you or regenerates sanity, flooring keeps lureplants out, etc.) The only item I can think of that doesn't is the pitchfork and turf, but really they need a use too.

 

I think stacking everything onto killing innocent animals is unoriginal and taking the uniqueness out of Krampus. I preferred to see it as other methods of gaining progress like crafting warming/cooling clothing, exploring a % of the map, using gears as WX, etc.

 

You are right saying that walls are useless for your base and don't have any other function that aesthetic.

 

But here is an example of what I mean when I say to "play with them":

http://dont-starve-game.wikia.com/wiki/File:Sample_of_Mctusk_Farming.png

 

For naughtiness it was only an example and I agree with yours.

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InaneDugong    121

Oh hey, I'm on TV.

Edit: P.S. I might expand on a few of my points since, particularly given that last one, they don't make much sense to anyone who hasn't already thought the same thing (and probably not even them, either. Best communication skills eva award goes to notme).

Anyway, I'd love to simply see an expansion of discussion on the topics even if they're not in favour of my ideas. Looking into the direction of Giants, the game does feel like it's heading towards deeper general gameplay and not deeper meta gameplay. The meta is a bit boring; and once a player figures out all the tips n' tricks to surviving, there isn't much to keep you interested - i.e. replayability, I dare say, kinda stinks.

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Doomfan64    187

Oh hey, I'm on TV.

Edit: P.S. I might expand on a few of my points since, particularly given that last one, they don't make much sense to anyone who hasn't already thought the same thing (and probably not even them, either. Best communication skills eva award goes to notme).

Anyway, I'd love to simply see an expansion of discussion on the topics even if they're not in favour of my ideas. Looking into the direction of Giants, the game does feel like it's heading towards deeper general gameplay and not deeper meta gameplay. The meta is a bit boring; and once a player figures out all the tips n' tricks to surviving, there isn't much to keep you interested - i.e. replayability, I dare say, kinda stinks.

Cool.

 

The thing about weapon tiers not working as well is a little outdated, due to the changes to the Ham Bat.

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imsomony    417

I'm bad at breaking up large quotes to respond line-by-line, so I'll pitch in my 2 cents this way instead:

 

 

- Item Tiering / Item Usefulness

I like the item tiering, personally. While we could say that there's a general consensus strategy of how to survive initially and build up our character's abilities up during the first 20 days, how we accomplish our objectives can differ. I might not bother to make a spear until my second Spring because I've continually found them in set pieces, and relied on those plus my trusty Axe all this time. Then again, I might drop a Science Machine the moment I can because I found a great spawn of mobs that I want to annihilate on day 3. I like the simplicity of "build up to it, ya noob" instead of all the crafting being handed to me.

 

Stacking items, to me this seems to be unrelated to tiering (unless I'm totally missing the connection OP was making). Just going from the example items given, I never use Sleep Darts, but can see their function if I spent my time getting the ingredients otherwise and never found mandrakes for a Pan Flute. Gunpowder, I use that all the time in one of my saves! My Beefalo herd has grown to such epic proportions that it's a necessity or my savannah becomes a nightmare. I keep hoping and praying Deerclops will come so he can thin the herd out a little for me. Again, it comes back to individual player strategy, and what resources (or lack of) has been given in the current world.

 

 

- Parish/Biome Interactions

In the example, OP gave Swamps... swamps are hard for folks in the vanilla game until they really feel ready to take on kiting and battle. So for that, they're awesome because it serves to give a challenging environment to work up to with some better rewards. Being around tentacles drains sanity as well, so unprepared players will find this challenging.

 

I like the changes suggested of the swamps growing bigger as time goes on, or tentacles respawning. Personally, I hope the devs keep the vanilla game as-is, but introduce things like this as DLC so that the hardcore players will continue to find new challenges without the necessity of mods.

 

 

- Hatching Minions

Agreed. I don't mind it though, it seems like just a little something added in for fun, and we don't have to do it. I don't feel that it takes away gameplay or ruins the effect they were going for, especially since those hatchlings will eventually turn on us.

 

 

- Fortifications / Walls

Yes they take a long time, and agreed, redundant. Just another thing that we can do or not do. We don't have to do everything the game offers just because it's there. I've made walls for aesthetics and I've not made walls because I'd rather spend my time on other things. It doesn't bother me, the option is there and I choose not to take it.

 

 

- Naughtiness

I know the original post is from back in the day... OP probably has seen already that naughtiness has been tweaked, but not removed.

 

 

- Braving the Environment / Rewards and Consequences

I really like this idea. Like i said above, I'd prefer they leave the vanilla game as-is, but definitely introduce this as DLC (in the current beta or another round). Some new biomes and seasonal elements have been introduced in the beta DLC, which OP has probably seen, but I really like this idea of adding extra environmental factors. It certainly adds an extra challenge, and discourages players from turtling in their cushy bases in the biome of their choice.

 

 

- Darker Forests / Biome Effects

Maybe it's just my monitor, or I'm going blind in my old age, but forests are already darker and reduce my line of sight :friendly_wink:

 

Swamps already have a sanity-effect (due to being near tentacles and other hostile creatures), but a tweak to its effects as well as other biomes wouldn't be bad. The devs would have to really consider all the possible effects of this though, so again, people couldn't just turtle in their bases or avoid certain biomes altogether once the materials they want have been gathered. In another thread around here somewhere, a forum member mentioned the DLC biome of deserts being hotter year-round, which goes along with this. There'd have to be a lot of balancing involved so that base game mechanics couldn't be exploited. But it also shouldn't lean so much towards negative effects that people stop playing because it's too "grind-y".

 

 

-What if the game differentiated very clearly between the character's subconscious malevolence - ever so keen on killing our protagonist - and the environment which is merely self-preserving?

I'm not sure I understand where OP was going with this, so I need some more explanation.

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InaneDugong    121

Alright, first off: great response, imsomony. The biggest point I think you've introduced is the concept of separating major changes from Vanilla and keeping them for the dedicated in the DLC.
Second, a few words about the current game and some rehash of what I said in the past.

I've marked things in red that are crazy and potentially stupid but I'd like to hear what people think or if the concepts are superfluous. 
 

 

I'm bad at breaking up large quotes to respond line-by-line, so I'll pitch in my 2 cents this way instead:

 

 

 

-Fortifications

Fortifications are currently unnecessary because they serve no real purpose beyond aesthetics. Whilst Fortifications are useless vs. persistent malicious creatures due to the uselessness of ranged weaponry (cough cough fire-darts cough cough), you can deal with most enemies of the like with some basic armour, basic weapons, and some skilful kiting. 

 

However, if persistent enemies to the player were in higher periodic threat, there may be a purpose for Fortifications--which brings me to the point that there really isn't any persistent threats to non-nomadic players. There should be.

 

 

-Item tiering / Item Usefulness 

Cool.

 

The thing about weapon tiers not working as well is a little outdated, due to the changes to the Ham Bat.

 

Well, referring to fire-darts and sleep-darts, I'd like to see a video or an explanation of their application since I'm yet to find one beyond obscure scenarios such as escaping a Deerclops. Whilst I can appreciate that they're perhaps not meant to be anything but 'special application' items, the fire-darts in particular seem far from useful in any sense.

But yes, there isn't that 'gap' I spoke of so much anymore with the bat bat and the ham bat being implemented. The fire-darts, however, still need more to them imo. 

 

-Parish / Biome Interactions

Don't Starve centres around a dying world. Rather, I'd like to have an option for a Thriving World. 
So, I have given this point some thought and came up with a few ideas centred around the above concept:

Swamp:
-The swamp slowly grows as tentacles further populate the premise. My other idea was that Merms could build their own huts from the remains of Tentacles. 
-During rainfall, pools of water should form around reeds for mosquitoes to form new breeding grounds - perhaps give a 6 turn timer (loose concept) from beginning to formation of new pond. 

 

 

Forest:
-Treants spawn in response to the number of trees damaged rather than simply chopped. This means big fires cause treant-spawning. 
-Treants will take a weighting action determined by the amount of damage done to their biome vs. whether to pursue the cause; if the damage done to the biome is too great to out-weigh the importance of Divine Punishment for the criminal, Treants will return to Forest and begin a slow re-plantation process using the dropped seeds. Once Treants are dedicated to re-plantation, they will continue to do so until killed - thus leading to expansion of the biome.

 

 

Greenlands:

Not sure at this point. I honestly think there needs to be pixies or something, or that mandrakes have more to do with this biome, but my only crazy shot at making anything work here would be,
-Butterflies that survive slowly spread flowers, changing the floor beneath it into pockets of lavish warm meadow of sorts. (???!!!) Often, you explore dead grounds that are persistently daunting until you come across a small patch of greenery, releasing the player from their fear. I think this would be a nice psychological balance to Don't Starve's world.

 

 

Desert: 
-The drier it is after Summer ends, the more the earth erodes - leaving desert. I don't have much to add here since I can't draw too many other connections, but perhaps it could function a bit like Greenlands in that it slowly converts patches of land into desert when - even if temporarily.

 

 

Marsh:
Every autumn, the Marsh floods, starting from the first rainfall (from as soon as it unfreezes during winter)--the frogs escape the flood to find food on the mainland and mosquitoes temporarily spawn from the area.

-For every successive turn that it rains within 5 turns of the Marsh's first flooding, the Marsh biome expands. 

 

 

New Biome: Tribal Pig Fortification/Town

A Biome that supports the campaign-only and goody-hut appearance of the Trival Pigs - the spiritual zealots of Don't Starve (the only example of any kind of spiritualism).

The concept here would be that they'd be the punishers of 'Naughtiness' beyond the world itself. As a tribe that, from what I've seen in Don't Starve's lore, worships nature, they'd punish the player for their Industrial nature by, during periodic ceremonies, summoning spectral beings (somewhat like the insanity-ridden wraiths).

They'd also periodically patrol the outskirts of their land/fortress, looking for creatures to sacrifice for their worshipping - a malicious tribe indeed.
(^ Probably my favourite idea yet.)  

 

 

-Hatching Minions

Yeah, I can deal with them just being adorable creatures to have fun with and to keep you company, but I sort of wish more mechanics were worked into them to make their pestering more of a strategy in itself rather than just petting for the sake of petting. Perhaps a sanity buffer of sorts for not being lonely?

 

 

-Naughtiness

Ehhhhh, I still think it's underwhelming. I can literally survive the whole of Winter on Rabbits and suffer no wrath from the Naughtiness mechanic - though I'm happy they didn't entirely remove it.

 

 

-Braving The Environment - Rewards / Consequences

Chop Wood=Potential Spawn of Treant should be expanded to all forms of destructive actions in Don't Starve since it's practically a representation of the real world and its own mechanism of, to some degree, self-preserving/healing.

I still think that the concept of


 

-Biome Effects

Well, I feel you on the whole Vision thing (my vision sucks too, even with glasses), but I was mostly speaking from an intent to increase immersion from some form of differentiation, i.e. there's only two biomes that currently plague the player (Forrest with its eeriness and swamp with its sound-effects). They have implemented the whole Full Moon thing with the mushrooms, etc, and I'd love it if they further exaggerated those aspects to make the game more demonising in a sense.

 

 

-What if the game differentiated very clearly between the character's subconscious malevolence - ever so keen on killing our protagonist - and the environment which is merely self-preserving?

Well, I did say that that point needed further explanation since I articulated it terribly (so, I'll take this opportunity to do so~).

 

The first thing you notice when you begin playing the game is the effects of Night-time and probably The Grue/Charlie. If you're, then, further unlucky, you'll notice the effects of becoming Insane - the screen effects, the sounds, the distortion, and of course, the spectral wraiths. These factors are rather terrifying when you begin playing Don't Starve - a game that is a mystery unto itself that has the player perplexed as they begin to try and unravel the conspiracy behind the protagonist's arrival in this unfamiliar world of tranquillity and malevolent inevitability. 

 

As you play on in the game, you discover that it's simply a matter of using preventative tactics and 'Rural Planning' to dodge these nightmarish elements. This, in itself, is disappointing - both for the lore of Don't Starve, and for that dying excitement that first met players on their first night away from the camp. 

 

My point is, the Environment is the biggest threat in Don't Starve - the creatures that scour the landscape, the temperate state of the seasons, and the abundance of food that soon becomes scarce.

 

The player only has to fear their own mistakes. Nothing actively seeks to eradicate the protagonist from the world of Don't Starve--and I loathe as much. My suggestion is to introduce more spectral creatures/mechanics that serve only to 'mess' with the player.



 

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Tonguetyd    68

I agree with most of the points here except for biomes expanding: The world would feel incredibly dull if one biome constantly grew bigger and overshadowed the others.

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MeingroessterFan    4,139

I had the thought on how a bigger focus on biomes could work. Basically, if you leave a biome alone for too long, the dangers in there can prosper. When trees stand together in a forest for a while, the ground could fill up with roots, which would slow down a character walking along there. If trees stand in the influence area of spider turf, they would get covered in webs and stay like that even for some time after the web has been destroyed, and there is a chance that a spider might descend from a tree like that when you walk past. Also, the roots could connect with a Totally Normal Tree and cause it to turn into a treeguard of epic proportions. To stop root spread and spider spread, you'd have to chop trees, kill spiders and the like, and if there is an area that you don't attend to, it will get more and more dangerous. Similar systems could be thought of for most of the biomes. So if you never move through the world and only turtle in your camp, by the time you HAVE to go out to get some fresh resources, you'll have a horrible time.

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WillPwn4Food    295

-Fortifications take forever to set up and are completely redundant. The only things in this game that are actively trying to kill you are so strong that the walls aren't going to stop it unless you add further protection, adding on another decade of time to the already huge time needed to construct them.

 

Walls will soon be receiving a crucial use: caging animals. While Beefalo pens are already popular, soon we will need rabbit pens (and maybe moleworm pens on cobblestone?) as well due to the starving mechanic being implemented to trapped animals. Basically, we won't be able to have a whole Savannah of trapped animals ready to be picked up forever

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InaneDugong    121

k, IE11 won't let me quote or copy/paste. Cool...

 

@MeingroessterFan: That's a pretty swell idea. It definitely serves as a more logical environmental progression to hamper camping players. It certainly brings life and interaction to the environment without introducing entirely new/illogical mechanics. I suppose, if all creatures in Don't Starve affected the environment in some manner - or, when certain conditions were met, micro events would occur - then the world would at least seem more alive.

 

@Tonguetyd: I suppose it would, but you'd only see such an affect after 800 days or so if the progressions were minor enough. I suppose you could leave out the whole 'biome expansion' part and just alter the biomes to have some forms of self-preservation.

 

My main qualm with Don't Starve's world, as I said, is that it's a Dying World and not thriving in any way. In other words, when the player is destructive, the consequences are permanent and the world does nothing to stop them (other than Treant spawning from chopping). I'd be happy with either A) more consequences for destructive behaviour/actions, or B) biomes growing due to specific circumstances being met, or C) self-preservation/restoration processes occurring.

B and C obviously can be tied together in an abstract manner, I.E. spiders interacting with trees, Treants upholding their honorary 'Defenders of the Wilds' title with replantation perhaps, or pigs supporting their village with minor vegetation growths or something of the like, etc.

 

To summarise my concerns with Don't Starve:

-I just feel like there's a lack of consequences for players' actions. 

-I also hate that there's no riposte from the inevitably dying world.

-And I really wish that the developers didn't blend the environment and psychological world to make something tame.   

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InaneDugong    121

Walls will soon be receiving a crucial use: caging animals. While Beefalo pens are already popular, soon we will need rabbit pens (and maybe moleworm pens on cobblestone?) as well due to the starving mechanic being implemented to trapped animals. Basically, we won't be able to have a whole Savannah of trapped animals ready to be picked up forever

Oh, for real? That sounds quite interesting, though I don't see how the different tiers of Fortifications will come into play when straw-walls will lock all non-retaliating creatures in just fine...

 

But this isn't the biggest of nerfs, really. After all, it strikes against semi-nomadic players the most since campers can trap as they need. Oh well.

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Doomfan64    187

The point of Fire Darts is to provide a relatively easy to gain ranged weapon that you don't have to stop in the middle of combat to catch again, like you need to do with Boomerangs.

 

I think, instead of them being the Tribal Pigs, we can finally have those freaking monkey men we've always wanted.

 

That thing about the mosquito ponds reproducing gave me an awesome idea to make Gunpowder more useful. You can make an IBKT (Improvised Big Kaplooey Thing, just because IED is too serious and modern of a name), with Gunpowder and Cut Stone. In addition to doing slightly more damage than just Gunpowder on it's own, you can now drop the IBKT into a mosquito pond to make it explode. launching water and Mosquito Sacks everywhere, but also removing the mosquito pond. 

 

FEATURE PRESENTATION: Okay, so I have a rather insane idea. I'd mark it in red, but that wouldn't be enough. 

 

So the idea stems from one of my memories as a newbie to Don't Starve. I was sitting around the campfire, when I kept  hearing weird noises in the dark. They sounded like a monster popping out of the ground. I was ready for the moment a blood-drenched skeleton in a tribal mask or whatever would pop out and drive a machete into my brain. 

 

The moment I realized the sounds were just trees getting bigger was the second biggest disappointment I had with the game, the first being my realization that there actually WASN'T a monster in the darkness killing me, it was an unscary, unfuffilling, stupid, and above all else unfair, gameplay mechanic that never even tries to kill you unless you make a huge mistake like not clicking the torch quick enough.

 

Which brings me to my point, which is giving a massive overhaul to the Grue to not only make the Grue funner to fight, but also to make Night more scary. Right now it's like "Oh no, I better not step on the Pixel of Death!". 

 

Now, first of all, there would be an option in the World Settings menu labeled "Grue". The icon for this would just be a completely dark square. You have 2 options: 

 

Normal (How the Grue works now, default option)

 

and Aggressive (The new mechanic)

 

The way Aggressive works is that, at night, the Grue now spawns as an actual entity at night. It appears as a shapeshifter with multiple generic forms, all completely black. These forms include a slimey swamp monster, a gigantic Houndish monster, a shadowy version of the player's character, etc. The Grue cannot be teleported away. It is weak against the Thulecite Club.

 

If you haven't got a source of light, it just spawns at the edge of the screen like Hounds do, and proceeds to kick your butt, due to its increased strength in the dark. If you're very lucky or if it's the first couple days, you might be able to fight the grue off,  cleverly using the "Attack Grue" tooltip to locate its position and stab at the dark. Or just dodge its attacks until the sun rises.

 

If you have a mobile light source like a Torch, the Grue stills acts the same, but doesn't have the strength bonus of the darkness. Despite this though, it still is very possible for the Grue to murder you. It's just much easier to stop it.

 

If you have a static light source like a Fire Pit, this is where the Grue starts to act much different. The Grue will circle around the campfire's light, its feet making a loud scary "stomp" sound. This occurs every second and is agonizingly slow, to make it scarier. The Grue's insanity aura is extended so that, even though you can't see the Grue because it is just outside your campfire, the aura still affects you, albeit weaker than normal.

 

Depending on some various stats (I'll get into that later), the Grue will be able to occasionally launch damaging but easy to avoid threats of some kind at you. Sometimes it can even step into the light for a few seconds to savage you. Like what InaneDugong said about features only to "mess" with the player.

 

As for what I was saying about stats, here's the interesting part. The power of the Grue is based on your well-being. This includes:

 

-The amount of days you have survived. This is the most important rating, as it effects the Grue in all stats across the board. The stat increases are minor, but still significant enough to be saying "Get better equipment or die!"

-Your hunger. If your hunger gets below 50, the Grue starts unlocking extra forms for every 10 hunger below 50.

-Your sanity. I have no clue what this should effect, but it's obvious that it needs to play SOME role.

-The amount of non-combat clothing you have. This includes ANY clothing that has been in your inventory, even if it has worn out. Effects... maybe the speed of the Grue? I dunno.

-The highest tier of Magic station you have. Allows the Grue to use various abilities which can be countered by some Magic items.

-Whether or not you have access to Thulecite. If you do, the Grue gains a small variety of very damaging powers.

 

At default power, the Grue is slightly smaller than a Hound, and its only special attack is a stronger version of the Spider Warrior's leap, which can't be avoided as easily.

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InaneDugong    121

The Grue should be a bad-ass.

The point of Fire Darts is to provide a relatively easy to gain ranged weapon that you don't have to stop in the middle of combat to catch again, like you need to do with Boomerangs.

 

I think, instead of them being the Tribal Pigs, we can finally have those freaking monkey men we've always wanted.

 

That thing about the mosquito ponds reproducing gave me an awesome idea to make Gunpowder more useful. You can make an IBKT (Improvised Big Kaplooey Thing, just because IED is too serious and modern of a name), with Gunpowder and Cut Stone. In addition to doing slightly more damage than just Gunpowder on it's own, you can now drop the IBKT into a mosquito pond to make it explode. launching water and Mosquito Sacks everywhere, but also removing the mosquito pond. 

 

FEATURE PRESENTATION: Okay, so I have a rather insane idea. I'd mark it in red, but that wouldn't be enough. 

 

So the idea stems from one of my memories as a newbie to Don't Starve. I was sitting around the campfire, when I kept  hearing weird noises in the dark. They sounded like a monster popping out of the ground. I was ready for the moment a blood-drenched skeleton in a tribal mask or whatever would pop out and drive a machete into my brain. 

 

The moment I realized the sounds were just trees getting bigger was the second biggest disappointment I had with the game, the first being my realization that there actually WASN'T a monster in the darkness killing me, it was an unscary, unfuffilling, stupid, and above all else unfair, gameplay mechanic that never even tries to kill you unless you make a huge mistake like not clicking the torch quick enough.

 

Which brings me to my point, which is giving a massive overhaul to the Grue to not only make the Grue funner to fight, but also to make Night more scary. Right now it's like "Oh no, I better not step on the Pixel of Death!". 

 

Now, first of all, there would be an option in the World Settings menu labeled "Grue". The icon for this would just be a completely dark square. You have 2 options: 

 

Normal (How the Grue works now, default option)

 

and Aggressive (The new mechanic)

 

The way Aggressive works is that, at night, the Grue now spawns as an actual entity at night. It appears as a shapeshifter with multiple generic forms, all completely black. These forms include a slimey swamp monster, a gigantic Houndish monster, a shadowy version of the player's character, etc. The Grue cannot be teleported away. It is weak against the Thulecite Club.

 

If you haven't got a source of light, it just spawns at the edge of the screen like Hounds do, and proceeds to kick your butt, due to its increased strength in the dark. If you're very lucky or if it's the first couple days, you might be able to fight the grue off,  cleverly using the "Attack Grue" tooltip to locate its position and stab at the dark. Or just dodge its attacks until the sun rises.

 

If you have a mobile light source like a Torch, the Grue stills acts the same, but doesn't have the strength bonus of the darkness. Despite this though, it still is very possible for the Grue to murder you. It's just much easier to stop it.

 

If you have a static light source like a Fire Pit, this is where the Grue starts to act much different. The Grue will circle around the campfire's light, its feet making a loud scary "stomp" sound. This occurs every second and is agonizingly slow, to make it scarier. The Grue's insanity aura is extended so that, even though you can't see the Grue because it is just outside your campfire, the aura still affects you, albeit weaker than normal.

 

Depending on some various stats (I'll get into that later), the Grue will be able to occasionally launch damaging but easy to avoid threats of some kind at you. Sometimes it can even step into the light for a few seconds to savage you. Like what InaneDugong said about features only to "mess" with the player.

 

As for what I was saying about stats, here's the interesting part. The power of the Grue is based on your well-being. This includes:

 

-The amount of days you have survived. This is the most important rating, as it effects the Grue in all stats across the board. The stat increases are minor, but still significant enough to be saying "Get better equipment or die!"

-Your hunger. If your hunger gets below 50, the Grue starts unlocking extra forms for every 10 hunger below 50.

-Your sanity. I have no clue what this should effect, but it's obvious that it needs to play SOME role.

-The amount of non-combat clothing you have. This includes ANY clothing that has been in your inventory, even if it has worn out. Effects... maybe the speed of the Grue? I dunno.

-The highest tier of Magic station you have. Allows the Grue to use various abilities which can be countered by some Magic items.

-Whether or not you have access to Thulecite. If you do, the Grue gains a small variety of very damaging powers.

 

At default power, the Grue is slightly smaller than a Hound, and its only special attack is a stronger version of the Spider Warrior's leap, which can't be avoided as easily.

 

On a digression, it'd seem people are more interested in hats than game mechanics - going by the popularity of this thread. 

 

 

 

Back on topic.

So, your rework of The Grue is certainly something I can appreciate, but I do have one major issue with your proposal:

 

The Grue/Charlie -- a being that only theoretically exists in the sense that it's a name given to some being that attacks the player when stranded in the dark, but otherwise really has no claim in itself to exist since one could argue it's a metaphoric concept that represents the player's mind going into some form of psychosis -- is interpreted differently by every player when they begin playing Don't Starve; and, due to this little fact of ambiguity, I believe there is one thing that should remain constant in the entity that is The Grue: 

 

-What

is The Grue? This should never truly be answered since, even as a hypothetical 'Shape Shifter', any way of identifying it would be personifying a malevolent creature of shadow - which is a bad thing, since humans certainly fear what they know (particularly things they can personify) less. 

-When

will it attack me? A player should be ever-conscious of The Grue and yet never truly on-guard. The Grue represents the darkest of malevolence in Don't Starve and, thus, is ever-present and everything. For The Grue to discriminate unto a specific opportunity is naive--The Grue always wants you dead.  

-Where

will it attack me? Am I safe by my campfire? Am I less safe by my campfire? Will it attack me directly? The Grue is omnipresent, thus it isn't beyond reason that it'll be at multiple places at once.

 

-How

will it attack me? Talons? Not specifically. Beams of energy? Not specifically. Shape-shift into a cute critter that saps my sanity? Curse my crops? Break my Lightning Rod? Switch off my Refrigerator? Summon a multitude of Shadows/Wraiths to haunt me? Temporarily steal and item only to replace it a day later? Put a mysterious hole in my fortress? Devour my supply of Rabbits for a day? Burn down my Trees? Use a tree to swipe me as I walk by? Play scary ominous sounds to me during the night? Etc etc etc - The Grue is awfully creative~

 

- (most importantly) Why

does The Grue want me dead? Does it simply see me as an invader in its/their world? Was I too destructive today? Was it because I was too hungry or too full? Was it because I woke up way too happy/sane in this world for an 'invader'? Was it because I looked miserable and cold, and thus it thought I should be more miserable and cold? Did me walking through the swamp give The Grue some ideas? 

Or was today just an unfortunate time for me - the protagonist - to be alive and there's nothing more to it?   

 

I think it's important to retain that The Grue has no specific identity and never forms itself. That is, if it was to Shape Shift, it'd be important that its identity were never realised beyond paranoid speculation that it were The Grue, I.E. if it took the form of a Rabbit, it'd hop onto screen, trigger an event, and hop off screen and disappear from the world the instant it left the player's screen--and, if the creature were to be killed, there'd only be so much as a sound effect to associate the creature with The Grue. 

 

 

This is what I think. Otherwise, I like the idea of bringing more life to fear in Don't Starve. As you said, it's a real let-down that it's a, well, let-down - both to the lore, and to the player.

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MeingroessterFan    4,139

I don't like the idea of the grue being an actual fightable monster. As InaneDugong said, the Grue needs to not have an identity for it to work. I could appreciate it if it had more of a presence aswell though. Maybe after a certain amount of time has passed, gushes of wind could blow out your torch, and you could hear a multitude of sounds from the darkness to announce the Grues presence, like footsteps or rustling. I'll come back to this thread later.

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InaneDugong    121

I don't like the idea of the grue being an actual fightable monster. As InaneDugong said, the Grue needs to not have an identity for it to work. I could appreciate it if it had more of a presence aswell though. Maybe after a certain amount of time has passed, gushes of wind could blow out your torch, and you could hear a multitude of sounds from the darkness to announce the Grues presence, like footsteps or rustling. I'll come back to this thread later.

 

Indeed. Whatever would be proposed, a physical entity would ruin the immersion. 

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Mr_E_Fox    59

My objection to most of this is it seems to try to give too much purpose to a sandbox game. Still I'll just give my thoughts on a couple things.

MINIONS

I don't really want things from pet followers, but they do things anyway and sometimes precisely what I don't want them to do. Sometimes I just want things around for a bit, but the game is cruel and takes everything away, but Chester always returns. I once wanted just a bunch of butterflies to have around at all times of the day and night, but they just flutter over walls and leave. I can enjoy them, but only in passing.

 

WHY BRAVE THE ENVOIRNMENT

There's STUFF out there. Like stuff stuff. You might need some stuff, you might want some stuff, and even if neither apply the stuff will still be there. The reward is stuff, the punishment is not stuff. If you need the game force you out of your base, then I'm confused. I'll let the hermits be hermits while I clear a swamp using only treeguards. I will control everything for anything that defies me will meet a tragic end under a very strong foot. My foot. Any specific turf consequences I'll wave my blood-stained hand at as I tear my way through each toward my next conquest. (Which actually is why I didn't notice much of summer turning everything to ash till I tried to set up a fully-stocked base. When you're constantly moving the backdraft extinguishes anything smoldering)

I do somewhat like the novelty of each biome having an additional impact apart from it just having things others don't, but to me it still feels like just a novelty.

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Doomfan64    187

The reward is stuff, the punishment is not stuff.

 

Except you can get stuff you need to survive already from your nine million berry bushes, your farms, and your Pig King that you built your shelter around. 

 

Also, "Trying to give too much purpose to a sandbox game"? I thought the purpose of any game was to have fun. I suppose you think the teleportato and Adventure Mode is giving too much purpose to a sandbox game, as well.

 

And, as for the thing about the Grue, I don't see how it really ruins the "feel" of the grue, but I suppose it could be reworked to be some kind of seperate entity that works alongside or competes with the Grue. And then just have the Grue be nerfed in some way while the other monster is active. 

 

-Maybe the grue just does less damage? Perhaps rework it into a "You take DoT while in the dark" sort of thing.

 

-Have the grue appear every five days or so, as a special challenge. Maybe some craftable items can extend the time in between each Grue appearance? These items would have to be crafted from some things that you can't relocate (ex. Reeds)

 

-Have the new monster gain a new attack at the start, which is to summon the Grue as an ally. HOWEVER, the Grue itself doesn't enter the campfire, the point being to try and lure the player into the grasp of the Grue. This means the only real part that you see of the Grue is a grimy paw swiping at you in the dark. Possibly, when examined, the secret character could make some sort of allusion to it being the Grue.

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Ridley    609

@Doomfan64

 

I think Charlie was created in the game for two reasons. To keep people from wondering around in the pitch black night, and to add another aspect that made you feel vulnerable. Charlie only fears the light, but its eerie to me to think about how great she is at reaching you in the dark. When surrounded by circle of campfires, and in the center there is darkness, she can still reach you. She only stalks after you, she doesn't leave a trace of her existence but is always there. She follows you into the caves and ruins, and even through adventure modes. Charlie is everywhere and no where, and for some reason only has it out for the player. She is a constant danger in which the player always needs to expend time and materials to keep safe.

 

Sources of light is how we fight Charlie, even the smallest fuel kindled hope can help our characters brave the night. Such a weakness almost portrays that the Don't Starve world is a collection of some of the worst things imaginable, but hope can still

 

 

*glasses*

 

shine through.

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MeingroessterFan    4,139

You know, I just thought of something. Pigs are horribly afraid of the dark, aren't they? That's obviously because of Charlie. How about, when pigs or other creatures end up awake in the pitch black, (because apparently sleeping protects you from death) you can hear a slashing sound, and the next morning you find the remains of a dead pig.

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