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Ortorin

Another of Ortorin's mod ideas: Craftable Shadow Spike weapons.

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HoneyHam    431

Aw poop, I'm out of hounds teeth... Guess I have to wait until the next attack to craft a shadow spike.

It wasn't a good idea to set hounds to less, was it?

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Rosten    680

Aw poop, I'm out of hounds teeth... Guess I have to wait until the next attack to craft a shadow spike.

It wasn't a good idea to set hounds to less, was it?

If you're in winter you could go find mactusk?

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simplex    2,602

Oh, my bad, I thought magic = 1 was "no machine magic" and magic = 2 was prehistulator.

Magic does start from 2, so it's not "hinted from the start" (like Science Machine recipes which appear with the text "Use a Science Machine to build a prototype!" or something like that). Using magic = 1 also means you'll only be able to prestihatitate it, it's just not the ideal way to do it because of that ("free magic" would be magic = 0).

But on another vein, cool mod idea. Though I very much prefer your original vision of it...

And @Blazingice26, could you not have just done something like this?

wY3Rx3r.png

shadow_spike.zip

swap_shadowspike.zip

p.s.: The build names are the same as the zip names: "shadow_spike" and "swap_shadowspike".

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Rosten    680

But on another vein, cool mod idea. Though I very much prefer your original vision of it...

And @Blazingice26, could you not have just done something like this?

wY3Rx3r.png

attachicon.gifshadow_spike.zip

attachicon.gifswap_shadowspike.zip

I dunno, I guess i just liked doing it my own way? 

i probably wasn't thinking straight at 4 a.m anyways (well, sometime along then)\

 

Edit - Maybe we aught to have a poll to see which design people like better?  Whichever is fine with me, i'd just like to know which one everyone else wants

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Ortorin    245

Magic does start from 2, so it's not "hinted from the start" (like Science Machine recipes which appear with the text "Use a Science Machine to build a prototype!" or something like that). Using magic = 1 also means you'll only be able to prestihatitate it, it's just not the ideal way to do it because of that ("free magic" would be magic = 0).

But on another vein, cool mod idea. Though I very much prefer your original vision of it...

And @Blazingice26, could you not have just done something like this?

wY3Rx3r.png

attachicon.gifshadow_spike.zip

attachicon.gifswap_shadowspike.zip

p.s.: The build names are the same as the zip names: "shadow_spike" and "swap_shadowspike".

 

What are you referring to when you say "original version"?

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simplex    2,602

What are you referring to when you say "original version"?

Original vision. As in recipe, damage, etc.

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Ortorin    245

Original vision. As in recipe, damage, etc.

 

I agree. 2 twigs, 2 fuel, 3 teeth at 58 dam, small drain, and 100 uses feels the most balanced to me as well. I changed the recipe after downloading to my version of it. I just don't feel like I have the right to tell blazingice that he is wrong since he did all the work. =/

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Rosten    680

I agree. 2 twigs, 2 fuel, 3 teeth at 58 dam, small drain, and 100 uses feels the most balanced to me as well. I changed the recipe after downloading to my version of it. I just don't feel like I have the right to tell blazingice that he is wrong since he did all the work. =/

Actually, everything is the same except the recipe, i don't know why exactly i picked a spear over twigs,

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Ortorin    245

Actually, everything is the same except the recipe, i don't know why exactly i picked a spear over twigs,

 

I could do a break-down of why I think the recipe should be changed. It would take me awhile to get it down in writing since this is an intuitive and inductive thought.

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HoneyHam    431

I think we should take the current black tentacle spike and make that slightly transparent. So both. 

Also simplex, I think you mean vain, not vein.

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Ortorin    245

Hey Blazingice26,

 

I've been thinking about the recipe more and more as I've been playing with this mod. It just doesn't vibe with me.

 

First off, the cost is too high. Nightmare Sword is 5 fuel and one living log, 3 fuel and 4 teeth for the spike. It makes more sense to save up 2 more fuel for the sword considering everything. Just to point out, there are only three spikes on the side of the weapon, the number of teeth uses should match.

 

Secondly, using a spear throws off the idea of the weapon. This isn't changing one weapon into another, this is making a shadow copy of the tent spike. There is some voodoo magic going on in the swamp.

 

Please change the recipe to:

2 twigs

2 fuel

3 teeth

 

It makes so much more sense for costs, materials used, and theme of the weapon. This will make it a better weapon.

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Rosten    680

Hey Blazingice26,

 

I've been thinking about the recipe more and more as I've been playing with this mod. It just doesn't vibe with me.

 

First off, the cost is too high. Nightmare Sword is 5 fuel and one living log, 3 fuel and 4 teeth for the spike. It makes more sense to save up 2 more fuel for the sword considering everything. Just to point out, there are only three spikes on the side of the weapon, the number of teeth uses should match.

 

Secondly, using a spear throws off the idea of the weapon. This isn't changing one weapon into another, this is making a shadow copy of the tent spike. There is some voodoo magic going on in the swamp.

 

Please change the recipe to:

2 twigs

2 fuel

3 teeth

 

It makes so much more sense for costs, materials used, and theme of the weapon. This will make it a better weapon.

I Changed it,

 

Edit - After thinking about it, this recipe just seems to easy, you have to remember that you cant just make a dark sword, you still have to gain the materials for a shadow manipulator, you can get the stuff for this in maybe your first 10 days if you get lucky with the hounds tooth drops

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Malacath    121

you can just recolor existing tentacle spike to black and then use:

inst.AnimState:SetMultColour(1, 1, 1, 0.6) and it will be like shadow sword.

That doesn't work for weapons. When you swap a symbol you have no control over rgba of just that symbol. So for everything swappable you still need to create the opaque effect in an image editor.

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Ortorin    245

I Changed it,

 

Edit - After thinking about it, this recipe just seems to easy, you have to remember that you cant just make a dark sword, you still have to gain the materials for a shadow manipulator, you can get the stuff for this in maybe your first 10 days if you get lucky with the hounds tooth drops

 

Ok, you CAN, but....

 

Look, you can't expect everyone to exploit the system. I bet most people are just going to be glad it's there when they happen to have the right amount of resources when they want to craft one.

 

How many players have a hard time with getting through their first winter? That's world after world generated without ever dabbling in magic.

 

Magic a more advanced use branch of tech. It takes some time to learn how to use it all correctly without having to run away from hallucinations. If some advanced player decides to tech to the spike then let him. This guy called his weapon of choice to play with.

 

 

What matters, is it balanced?

 

 

I was looking at the melee weapon damages. The current 58 would put this weapon as a third tier two weapon with the Hambat and the Thulecite Club.(they have 1 more damage)

 

That isn't right, this weapon shouldn't be competing for that spot. The Shadow Spike should be competing with the Tentacle Spike.

 

I've thought it over, it should have 53 damage. Only 2 points above the tentacle spike, 4 points below tier two. So now this is a Tentacle Spike +1 instead of a tier two contender.

 

So 53 damage, 100 uses, but it also has a 10/min sanity drain. This forces players to deal with more sanity loss, and if you are not prepared it's not pretty. You are taking a risk to get a +1 T.Spike, but if you can utilize it correctly, then it is a nice upgrade from the spear and T.Spike. (I got tired of writing "Tentacle". The "Tentacle Spike" will now be the "T.Spike".)

 

Now, recipe. Sure you can get these items in 10 days, but can you handle the sanity drain? You start swinging this around at night with Wolfgang without a tam while fighting spiders you'll go crazy. While it may be able to be obtained in 10 days, most players will probably not be prepared to use it by that time.(unless they play Maxwell.) Would it even be worth it after checking out your first swamp?

 

BTW, side note here... Maxwell kicks ass as a dapper gentleman. His cheery nature comes in handy when playing with dark magic...

 

Damaged brought down to 53 and I feel comfortable with saying this weapon is balanced in all regards.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

 (should I break down why I picked the recipe more?)

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Rosten    680

Ok, you CAN, but....

 

Look, you can't expect everyone to exploit the system. I bet most people are just going to be glad it's there when they happen to have the right amount of resources when they want to craft one.

 

How many players have a hard time with getting through their first winter? That's world after world generated without ever dabbling in magic.

 

Magic a more advanced use branch of tech. It takes some time to learn how to use it all correctly without having to run away from hallucinations. If some advanced player decides to tech to the spike then let him. This guy called his weapon of choice to play with.

 

 

What matters, is it balanced?

 

 

I was looking at the melee weapon damages. The current 58 would put this weapon as a third tier two weapon with the Hambat and the Thulecite Club.(they have 1 more damage)

 

That isn't right, this weapon shouldn't be competing for that spot. The Shadow Spike should be competing with the Tentacle Spike.

 

I've thought it over, it should have 53 damage. Only 2 points above the tentacle spike, 4 points below tier two. So now this is a Tentacle Spike +1 instead of a tier two contender.

 

So 53 damage, 100 uses, but it also has a 10/min sanity drain. This forces players to deal with more sanity loss, and if you are not prepared it's not pretty. You are taking a risk to get a +1 T.Spike, but if you can utilize it correctly, then it is a nice upgrade from the spear and T.Spike. (I got tired of writing "Tentacle". The "Tentacle Spike" will now be the "T.Spike".)

 

Now, recipe. Sure you can get these items in 10 days, but can you handle the sanity drain? You start swinging this around at night with Wolfgang without a tam while fighting spiders you'll go crazy. While it may be able to be obtained in 10 days, most players will probably not be prepared to use it by that time.(unless they play Maxwell.) Would it even be worth it after checking out your first swamp?

 

BTW, side note here... Maxwell kicks ass as a dapper gentleman. His cheery nature comes in handy when playing with dark magic...

 

Damaged brought down to 53 and I feel comfortable with saying this weapon is balanced in all regards.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

 (I should break down why I picked the recipe more.)

Honestly, while you do make a valid point, 53 damage is kind of irrelevant, it won't take a hit off most kills, (except maybe deerclops or something) which makes it pretty much the tentacle spike with a sanity drain, if its going to have the sanity drain, then it needs to be strong enough to take atleast 1 hit off of killing things, hows.... 55?

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Ortorin    245

Honestly, while you do make a valid point, 53 damage is kind of irrelevant, it won't take a hit off most kills, (except maybe deerclops or something) which makes it pretty much the tentacle spike with a sanity drain, if its going to have the sanity drain, then it needs to be strong enough to take atleast 1 hit off of killing things, hows.... 55?

 

works for me.

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