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A Different Gameplay Experience? (Why I Don't Like Caves)


Sporb

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I've realized that I don't like caves very much. It's not that I hate them, I just don't really like them. This is a little odd, because I was excited when I first heard about caves. Even though the plan for caves has changed since then, there's still plenty of cool new stuff down there. So why don't I like them?

 

Well, one reason that gets mentioned a lot is that caves are very optional. When you're living on the surface world, there's no motivation to go down into caves. I've accepted that as the only reason I don't really like caves for a while now. But then I realized, I like Adventure Mode, which is perhaps more optional than caves. Obviously, there's something else going on here.

 

That's about when I identified something that's been bugging me about caves for a long time now: caves offer a gameplay experience which is very different on a basic level than the rest of Don't Starve. Your motivation to do anything, the effects of your failure, what defines success, etc. are all different when you enter a cave.

 

One reason for this is that you aren't really supposed to live in caves; they don't really have the resources to support you for a long period of time. On the surface, it's all about managing your time and resources so that you can carve out a place for yourself in the environment. In AM, it's about obtaining the resources you need and leaving. In caves, on the other hand, you get many of the supplies you need from the surface, and, when you run out, you go home. It makes caves feel more like a sightseeing excursion than an actual life or death survival situation.

 

That brings me to my next point: the effects of failure. Now, when I say the effects of failure, I don't mean death. On the surface, if winter catches you unprepared and you don't know what you're doing, you will probably die permanently no matter how many touch stones you have. In caves, if you mismanage your resources very badly and find yourself running low on supplies you need, you can just return to the surface. Big deal. Even if you die, as long as you have a meat effigy and/or touch stone stocked with basic supplies, you'll probably be fine. But, if something goes wrong on the surface, you can be at risk even with that preparation.

Of course, in AM, death has no effect at all on your main world. But that feels different because the AM worlds and your main world are completely unconnected, and you'll have to start over again the next time you play AM. Indeed, in AM, you are presented with 2 options: survive or die. In caves, your options are more like this: survive or go home.

 

This all adds up to a major problem. For me, at least, caves don't really present any new challenges. Sure, I could try to learn how to survive for longer amounts of time down there, but why bother? I can just leave at any time. The surface will always be less hostile than caves, so when things get difficult, I can just leave and come back later, instead of toughing it out or dieing like I would in other parts of this game. This permanent safety net makes me feel unmotivated to do anything in caves; the main motivation I have in other parts of the game, trying to survive, is pretty much removed. If I wanted to do my best to survive, I wouldn't be in caves in the first place.

 

Now, perhaps for someone who enjoys the sandbox elements of this game more than I do, this isn't a big deal. But, for me, these factors really kill the experience and make it kind of dull.

 

Well, that turned out to be a lot longer than I expected, but I haven't really seen anyone talk about this, so I thought I would.

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Caves aren't really for survival. They're for messing around in.

 

And that's precisely why they bore me. Messing around is not my favorite aspect of Don't Starve. It's a little bit disappointing to see all this new content, which could have been used to make a fun survival experience in what I consider to be a survival game, used instead as something pretty you can go look at. Good grief, I'm starting to get a little bitter about this. I don't want to be bitter. :|

 

It would be cool if that was part of adventure mode, at the rest i agree with you.

 

Yes, adventure-mode-like level that involved caves would indeed be fun.

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And that's precisely why they bore me. Messing around is not my favorite aspect of Don't Starve. It's a little bit disappointing to see all this new content, which could have been used to make a fun survival experience in what I consider to be a survival game, used instead as something pretty you can go look at. Good grief, I'm starting to get a little bitter about this. I don't want to be bitter. :|

 

 

Yes, adventure-mode-like level that involved caves would indeed be fun.

Yeah, There needs to be  a reason to go into the caves.

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It would be interesting if something cuts your rope when you enter and the only way to get back out is to defeat the guardian, thus forcing you to 'complete' the caves in one go. This means you need to prepare for a real expedition, with the several days you'll be down there. As for the reason to go in the first place... there should really be a thing piece like everyone keeps saying!

 

Obviously once you've made it back out, the cave can be unlocked for your leisure like it is now.

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I like most of the content within the caves but I have the same issue with them as you. When they first announced the caves and their plan for them I was really excited (the desert exploration plan was also pretty great sounding but never got implemented obviously) but I'm not happy with their current finished state. No motivation to keep going down there except because I annoyingly have to keep going down to the ruins to make ancient items. I would've preferred if the caves were an actual extension to the game, requiring you to go down there for needed resources rather than just "Hey, if you wanna go down there, roam around for a bit, maybe get some cool stuff then you can do that but if you don't wanna bother then that's fine too." I don't like that.

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I like most of the content within the caves but I have the same issue with them as you. When they first announced the caves and their plan for them I was really excited (the desert exploration plan was also pretty great sounding but never got implemented obviously) but I'm not happy with their current finished state. No motivation to keep going down there except because I annoyingly have to keep going down to the ruins to make ancient items. I would've preferred if the caves were an actual extension to the game, requiring you to go down there for needed resources rather than just "Hey, if you wanna go down there, roam around for a bit, maybe get some cool stuff then you can do that but if you don't wanna bother then that's fine too." I don't like that.

 

That were exactly what I said on the other topic. I also have the same issue with them as you. You simply don't have to go to the Caves, its completely optiocional. They should make one another main resource that could only be gathered on the Caves, anything like that.

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I don't know about you guys, but I am the master of my world. From top to bottom, sea to sea, all is under my dominion. It isn't enough for me to just survive in this game, I must THRIVE. I shall build my mansion on top of a cave hole to use it for storage of all the crap I acquire. Adventuring through the caves is me putting my footprint on what is mine and mine alone to control.

 

You may not see a reason to go into caves, my reason is to OWN them.

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While this is definitely connected to having a motivation to go into caves, I'm trying to say that there's more to it than that. Unlike the rest of the game, caves really aren't about survival, so it makes them feel and play differently from the surface. I honestly don't like that experience nearly as much as the rest of the game.

 

I mean, I'd like to have a reason to go into the caves, sure. That'd be nice. But I'd rather be trying to survive when I go down there, rather than just going on safari until my supplies run out.

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Caves should be proportionate to the surface world, providing an alternate means of transportation. In fact, the "ruins" should have been a massive underground tomb for all the other adventurers on the island, with catacombs and stuff. There, some of their skeletons would reanimate in the dark (if you shine a light on them, they immediately disassemble and fall to the floor) and you could guide them back up to the surface for a reward or something. Just seeing those trapped souls would remind you of your inevitable fate in this world.

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Why would I want to stay in a place always draining my sanity, where I have limited resources much more often, and if I die (assuming I have made perma-death protections like I would on the surface) I lose all my food and have to (If I didn't place an effigy in the caves yet) re-enter the caves (or not if I did) and get all my stuff again with no dropped food waiting? 

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Why bother playing the game, you can stop at any time :p

Well technically most things in Don't Starve are optional.
Why use Krock Pots when raw ingredients are enough to sustain you?
Why make Healing Salve when Spider glands already heal you?
Why bother with Beefalos when rabbits already give you meat?
Why continue combat with spiders when you can just outrun or trap them?
 
Well technically there's plenty of new challenges down there, new enemies, constant darkness, also the value of an easy to stockpile, refuelable,portable light source should not be understated and many layers of new resources.

 At the end of the day, most of this game's features are entirely optional. The Caves just added another layer of optional to the game.
If you don't like it fine, then don't go down there, nothing's forcing you.
Me I'll keep descending, this civilized, one man society just wouldn't be the same without proper, civilized lanterns lighting  each room of his house, and Slurtle Slim doesn't farm itself. 

Well at the end of the day if you were just aiming to SURVIVE the game would become dull rather quickly, now learning to Thrive on the other hand, adds whole new layers of gameplay that you didn't need to ever consider before.

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Why bother playing the game, you can stop at any time :razz:

Well technically most things in Don't Starve are optional.

Why use Krock Pots when raw ingredients are enough to sustain you?

Why make Healing Salve when Spider glands already heal you?

Why bother with Beefalos when rabbits already give you meat?

Why continue combat with spiders when you can just outrun or trap them?

 

Well technically there's plenty of new challenges down there, new enemies, constant darkness, also the value of an easy to stockpile, refuelable,portable light source should not be understated and many layers of new resources.

 At the end of the day, most of this game's features are entirely optional. The Caves just added another layer of optional to the game.

If you don't like it fine, then don't go down there, nothing's forcing you.

Me I'll keep descending, this civilized, one man society just wouldn't be the same without proper, civilized lanterns lighting  each room of his house, and Slurtle Slim doesn't farm itself. 

Well at the end of the day if you were just aiming to SURVIVE the game would become dull rather quickly, now learning to Thrive on the other hand, adds whole new layers of gameplay that you didn't need to ever consider before.

 

The name of the game is "Don't Starve." It's categorized as a survival-horror game. It is described as an "uncompromising wilderness world." When you die, it shows you the number of days you "survived" in this world. There is a tab called "Survival" in the crafting section. It's no dairy farm beauty pageant simulator.

 

Thriving is also easy. You don't need to worry about food after the first winter, so you can concentrate on decorating stuff with flooring, adding unnecessary walling and killing all creatures with relative ease. It's basically telling this universe to go screw itself, cause I got my above-ground items that negate the requirement for finite ruins items, God-like status among all creatures and plus my base is absolutely fabulous~!

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The name of the game is "Don't Starve." It's categorized as a survival-horror game. It is described as an "uncompromising wilderness world." When you die, it shows you the number of days you "survived" in this world. There is a tab called "Survival" in the crafting section. It's no dairy farm beauty pageant simulator.

 

Thriving is also easy. You don't need to worry about food after the first winter, so you can concentrate on decorating stuff with flooring, adding unnecessary walling and killing all creatures with relative ease. It's basically telling this universe to go screw itself, cause I got my above-ground items that negate the requirement for finite ruins items, God-like status among all creatures and plus my base is absolutely fabulous~!

 

So are you saying that you have a problem with the game being too easy for you?

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So are you saying that you have a problem with the game being too easy for you?

 

He implied that to keep being engaged in the experience you should focus on thriving as opposed to starving; that basically causes the main purpose of the game to be obsolete. There's no risk factor after the first winter and you're left actively SEARCHING for challenges, as opposed to being directly subjected to them. You don't need to set foot in the caves to survive, but you might because you're bored out of your mind.

 

I don't have a problem with the game being too easy, it's just that I run out of stuff to do. So much in fact that I'm still in the process of trying to find a decent looking map, one that resembles generation before the Six Feet Under update. If I'm gonna spend 500+ days in that universe thriving and without a care, I don't want it to look like a blob of slime that just got smacked onto the surface of my monitor (the current default star-fish shaped abomination).

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He implied that to keep being engaged in the experience you should focus on thriving as opposed to starving; that basically causes the main purpose of the game to be obsolete. There's no risk factor after the first winter and you're left actively SEARCHING for challenges, as opposed to being directly subjected to them. You don't need to set foot in the caves to survive, but you might because you're bored out of your mind.

 

I don't have a problem with the game being too easy, it's just that I run out of stuff to do. So much in fact that I'm still in the process of trying to find a decent looking map, one that resembles generation before the Six Feet Under update. If I'm gonna spend 500+ days in that universe thriving and without a care, I don't want it to look like a blob of slime that just got smacked onto the surface of my monitor (the current default star-fish shaped abomination).

 

I honestly feel that this game is brutally difficult.  It would be quite an accomplishment if someone were to master the game so that they could survive winter after winter without any sort of outside help (in the form of the wiki, forums, guides, peeking into game files).  However once a player starts reading the wiki, the forums, etc., the game very rapidly and alarmingly becomes much, much easier.

 

This game isn't like most games.  Knowledge doesn't just help; it is everything.  Other games have one or more opponents working against you, or there is a strong arcade element to it.  In this game, once a player has figured out how to survive, that's it (as far as simple survival goes).  If someone wants to keep playing after mastering survival, they will have to find new challenges to keep things interesting.

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I honestly feel that this game is brutally difficult.  It would be quite an accomplishment if someone were to master the game so that they could survive winter after winter without any sort of outside help (in the form of the wiki, forums, guides, peeking into game files).  However once a player starts reading the wiki, the forums, etc., the game very rapidly and alarmingly becomes much, much easier.

 

This game isn't like most games.  Knowledge doesn't just help; it is everything.  Other games have one or more opponents working against you, or there is a strong arcade element to it.  In this game, once a player has figured out how to survive, that's it (as far as simple survival goes).  If someone wants to keep playing after mastering survival, they will have to find new challenges to keep things interesting.

 

Knowing should be half the battle. With the fundamentals you discover and understand, you should be introduced to unfamiliar situations where you'd apply your knowledge in order to better approach it. In an "unpredictable" and "uncompromising" wilderness world like the Don't Starve universe, your options are incredibly varied and there's no excuse for making it linear or closely resemble fundamentals of real life. It was designed to be unique in its art direction and gameplay - exploit this and throw challenges at the audience, not reiterations of existing content or increasing numbers like I've said before (e.g. raised 3000hp to 4000hp, you beat him the same way but it takes a minute or two more and it's tedious! Stay focused for a longer time!)

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Knowing should be half the battle. With the fundamentals you discover and understand, you should be introduced to unfamiliar situations where you'd apply your knowledge in order to better approach it. In an "unpredictable" and "uncompromising" wilderness world like the Don't Starve universe, your options are incredibly varied and there's no excuse for making it linear or closely resemble fundamentals of real life. It was designed to be unique in its art direction and gameplay - exploit this and throw challenges at the audience, not reiterations of existing content or increasing numbers like I've said before (e.g. raised 3000hp to 4000hp, you beat him the same way but it takes a minute or two more and it's tedious! Stay focused for a longer time!)

I didn't know how to word what I wanted to respond with, but you nailed it. I've peeked at the Wiki for help with Adventure Mode and I've only managed to complete it last night after so many tries. I've had the knowledge to use Green Mushrooms for Obelisks, stay nomadic everywhere except Two Worlds and maybe The Game Is Afoot, get the Walking Cane and Tam in King of Winter before moving on (oh look I'm droning on now) and I still haven't been able to get through the entirety of Adventure Mode with Wilson until tonight. There's no way to completely anticipate what's out there in the black parts of the map when you haven't traced the entirety of it. I forgot what my point is.

 

EDIT: I'm going to go eat a bagel.

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