[Animation] Animation Nation

[TheDanaAddams]

It'll take more than two frames, but yeah. xD

[lifemare]

It'll take more than two frames, but yeah. xD

 

Please tell me Spriter does tweenings!

[simplex]

Please tell me Spriter does tweenings!

Why don't we do that at the art level?

I can do it if you'd like, using ImageMagick (more precisely, it's "morph" operator).

Take a look at the operator's definition and tell me if that's what you're after.

[lifemare]

Why don't we do that at the art level?

I can do it if you'd like, using ImageMagick (more precisely, it's "morph" operator).

Take a look at the operator's definition and tell me if that's what you're after.

 

So it doesn't do tweenings? I can't believe that!! You mean to tell me every animation in DS is hand-made (computer assisted) stop-motion?

Is the anim created in ImageMagick compatible with DS builds?

Or do you mean exporting each frame of the morph into separate sprites onto a Thunder Tree atlas? That would be a little weird.

[simplex]

So it doesn't do tweenings? That is shocking!

 

Is the anim created in ImageMagick compatible with DS builds?

Or do you mean exporting each frame of the morph into separate sprites onto a Thunder Tree atlas? That would be a little weird.

I don't know if Spriter does that. I was suggesting it in case it didn't.

ImageMagick works on the image level. So it'd export the intermediate frames as proper frames to be included in the atlas.

Based on how the anim system of the game works*, there is no support for tweening. If Spriter supports that in a format compatible with the game, it is also by fattening the atlas.

* It just applies rigid motions to parts of the atlas.

EDIT: But... yeah, replacing animation symbols all the time as the animation flows, to give the tweening effect, would get quite awkward.

[lifemare]

I don't know if Spriter does that. I was suggesting it in case it didn't.

ImageMagick works on the image level. So it'd export the intermediate frames as proper frames to be included in the atlas.

Based on how the anim system of the game works, there is no support for tweening. If Spriter supports that in a format compatible with the game, it is also by fattening the atlas.

 

Well NOW i understand Dana's comments on an animator's work not being easy!

I allways assumed there'd be tweening.

 

It's still doable by hand with a couple more frames per cloud...

But i'll definitely give ImageMagick a try, i've yet to find a morphing program i actualy like. Though command-lines are a bit scary in a visual editor!!

[TheDanaAddams]

Spriter is built around tweening - I just mean for nice animation you'd need more than two keyframes.

Spriter uses linear tweening, for one thing, so it can get floaty, if you're not careful.

 

Edit: To clarify, it doesn't do SHAPE tweening - just translation, rotation, and scale.

To have shape morphing, you need to swap between various textures.

[simplex]

Spriter is built around tweening - I just mean for nice animation you'd need more than two keyframes.

Spriter uses linear tweening, for one thing, so it can get floaty, if you're not careful.

That's good to know. I didn't realize the motion of animation symbols in the game was actually tweened.

But what does it do with the tweened frames? The anim and build files the game uses just specify animation symbols and their position along frames (I'm guessing the game replicates the tweening, then).

[lifemare]

Spriter is built around tweening - I just mean for nice animation you'd need more than two keyframes.

Spriter uses linear tweening, for one thing, so it can get floaty, if you're not careful.

 

Edit: To clarify, it doesn't do SHAPE tweening - just translation, rotation, and scale.

 

Big freaking phew!

 

I was truly shocked by the notion of animating without that!

Scale and rotation tweening should be enough together. Might have to do an intermediate sprite though...

[simplex]

Edit: To clarify, it doesn't do SHAPE tweening - just translation, rotation, and scale.

To have shape morphing, you need to swap between various textures.

Ohh, that makes sense. I was a bit imprecise in the term "rigid motion", the game (in accordance to what's specified in the anim file) applies a translation and a matrix operation, which includes rotation, scaling, reflection, shearing...

I don't know if Spriter supports editing all that, but the game certainly supports rendering it.

[TheDanaAddams]

Big freaking phew!

 

I was truly shocked by the notion of animating without that!

Scale and rotation tweening should be enough together. Might have to do an intermediate sprite though...

With careful use of scale and switching between different states, you can get a pretty good morph result.

Really, it just comes down to knowing how to 'cheat' the animation.

[lifemare]

It'll take more than two frames, but yeah. xD

 

So, to clarify, you just gave me the scare of a lifetime to point out there needs to be more frames in the animation ingame.

BUT really only one START and END frame in Spriter. The rest being produced by tweening.

[simplex]

So, to clarify, you just gave me the scare of a lifetime to point out there needs to be more frames in the animation ingame.

BUT really only one START and END frame in Spriter. The rest being produced by tweening.

Since it's linear tweening, using just 2 frames will make it look quite bad. It'd be best to include some more, even if they were just resized versions of the 2 main ones (but using a better filter).

[TheDanaAddams]

So, to clarify, you just gave me the scare of a lifetime to point out there needs to be more frames in the animation ingame.

BUT really only one START and END frame in Spriter. The rest being produced by tweening.

This is a really rough breakdown of how I'd do a sort of 'blooming' tuft of cloud-leaves:

 

You need more than two frames in Spriter - a lot more. But it's not a lot of hard work. Just a matter of knowing how to work with timing.

[lifemare]

Since it's linear tweening, using just 2 frames will make it look quite bad. It'd be best to include some more, even if they were just resized versions of the 2 main ones (but using a better filter).

 

Yes, that's very likely.

And i should stop making assumptions before trying Spriter myself.

[lifemare]

This is a really rough breakdown of how I'd do a sort of 'blooming' tuft of cloud-leaves:

Screen Shot 2013-09-15 at 1.08.00 PM.png

 

You need more than two frames in Spriter - a lot more. But it's not a lot of hard work. Just a matter of knowing how to work with timing.

 

Awesome!

Thanks for that, Dana! I see what you mean now! Sorry i made you have to sketch it for me :^P

I heart Sprites too!

[thelefthelix]

@debugman18 I'm posting this here as it is most relevant to animation at the current time. I am gonna try and actually be productive for once, and while I'm kinda piecing things together and figuring out the best way for this creature to move, I thought this might be helpful in regards to your request for a proportional reference a while back.

 

 

Sorry he's a giant right now lol.

 

Edit: I'm having issues finding a good position for his head, some feedback on that would be appreciated.

[debugman18]

@debugman18 I'm posting this here as it is most relevant to animation at the current time. I am gonna try and actually be productive for once, and while I'm kinda piecing things together and figuring out the best way for this creature to move, I thought this might be helpful in regards to your request for a proportional reference a while back.

 

 

Sorry he's a giant right now lol.

 

Edit: I'm having issues finding a good position for his head, some feedback on that would be appreciated.

Seems pretty spot on, to me. Maybe a tad to the right?

[thelefthelix]

Seems pretty spot on, to me. Maybe a tad to the right?

 

I think you're right. I dunno it just looks odd to me. I'll mess with it some more though and see if I can get my eye to stop twitching about it. Thanks!

[simplex]

@debugman18 I'm posting this here as it is most relevant to animation at the current time. I am gonna try and actually be productive for once, and while I'm kinda piecing things together and figuring out the best way for this creature to move, I thought this might be helpful in regards to your request for a proportional reference a while back.

 

 

Sorry he's a giant right now lol.

 

Edit: I'm having issues finding a good position for his head, some feedback on that would be appreciated.

I agree with debugman. To me that's very good. If any, put the head slightly to the right, but I can certainly see it working as is.

[TheDanaAddams]

The art's nice, but it feels off-balance.

The legs all protrude from a single point in the middle of the body, and don't really support the weight, which makes it look 'off.'

 

That's my opinion, at least.

[simplex]

The art's nice, but it feels off-balance.

The legs all protrude from a single point in the middle of the body, and don't really support the weight, which makes it look 'off.'

 

That's my opinion, at least.

Oh yes. The joint between the legs and the torso is somewhat off. But whether this will be an actual issue depends on the scale we'll adopt, I suppose.

[thelefthelix]

The art's nice, but it feels off-balance.

The legs all protrude from a single point in the middle of the body, and don't really support the weight, which makes it look 'off.'

 

That's my opinion, at least.

 

You are absolutely right, thank you for pointing that out. Hopefully this corrects the issues.

 

Oh yes. The joint between the legs and the torso is somewhat off. But whether this will be an actual issue depends on the scale we'll adopt, I suppose.

 

This is a big factor in it too, in my opinion. Although it would have likely still looked fine, it's probably better to fix it now rather than waiting until it's finished and being bottlenecked into a specific size. I did show a scaled down version of his altered legs in this image. Sorry to be clogging the thread with my nonsense, just want to make sure everyone's pleased with it before I start finishing all the other pieces.

 

[simplex]

You are absolutely right, thank you for pointing that out. Hopefully this corrects the issues.

 

 

This is a big factor in it too, in my opinion. Although it would have likely still looked fine, it's probably better to fix it now rather than waiting until it's finished and being bottlenecked into a specific size. I did show a scaled down version of his altered legs in this image. Sorry to be clogging the thread with my nonsense, just want to make sure everyone's pleased with it before I start finishing all the other pieces.

 

Very nice! And come on, don't apologize. Please post as many details about the process as you'd like. Too many of them can never hurt. Too few might.

[TheDanaAddams]

It's absolutely not 'clogging up' the thread - it's valid discussion! ^^