General Development

[simplex]

Seconded. As it is used more and more, negative effects should be increased.

With the occasional flashback when you're driving.

Great, now we need cars.

[debugman18]

With the occasional flashback when you're driving.

Great, now we need cars.

 

Oof.

 

Speaking of cars (or vehicles, rather) somebody mentioned in a thread that they thought boats would be impossible to make in a mod. I'm pretty sure it could be made relatively easily, by being a placeable object that you would put near the water and it would do a check of nearby groundtypes, and on activation you could have the player and 'boat' teleport to the same spot (to wherever the not-ground, ie water is) and have the boat follow the player. Then when you hit land (ie the 'wall' of the land) the boat and the player would teleport there. I think the animation part would be tricky, but otherwise it doesn't sound that hard.

 

Just curious, something like that is doable, right? This has nothing to do with U&A, (well, it could potentially in the future, cloudboats, anyone?) it's more of a technical inquiry.

[Luggs]

Alright fellas. I have some Winnie quotes for ya. Since this is a group effort, I'd like to post some samples for ya to see if you like the direction of the character.

 

Mandrake- Wicked witchcraft.

Pig King- Do you have food to spare?

Wes (trapped)- I love mimes!

Powdercake- Grandpa loved these.

 

Trying to sleep when too hungry- I need some supper first.

Trying to sleep near monsters- But there’s monsters under my bed.

Hounds are coming- I hear doggies.

Butter- I told Granny butter came from butterflies.

Krampus- But I was a good girl this year.

Broken Ancient Psudoscience Station- It’s all brokeny.

Blue Mushroom (unpicked)- Blue makes flesh stick like glue.

Green Mushroom (unpicked)- Green makes your mind lose its sheen.

Red Mushroom (unpicked)- Red means dead.

•  
•  

[ArcticFox789]

 

Alright fellas. I have some Winnie quotes for ya. Since this is a group effort, I'd like to post some samples for ya to see if you like the direction of the character.

 

Mandrake- Wicked witchcraft.

Pig King- Do you have food to spare?

Wes (trapped)- I love mimes!

Powdercake- Grandpa loved these.

 

Trying to sleep when too hungry- I need some supper first.

Trying to sleep near monsters- But there’s monsters under my bed.

Hounds are coming- I hear doggies.

Butter- I told Granny butter came from butterflies.

Krampus- But I was a good girl this year.

Broken Ancient Psudoscience Station- It’s all brokeny.

Blue Mushroom (unpicked)- Blue makes flesh stick like glue.

Green Mushroom (unpicked)- Green makes your mind lose its sheen.

Red Mushroom (unpicked)- Red means dead.

 

Take all my yes. They seem perfect for the character.

[debugman18]

 

Alright fellas. I have some Winnie quotes for ya. Since this is a group effort, I'd like to post some samples for ya to see if you like the direction of the character.

 

Mandrake- Wicked witchcraft.

Pig King- Do you have food to spare?

Wes (trapped)- I love mimes!

Powdercake- Grandpa loved these.

 

Trying to sleep when too hungry- I need some supper first.

Trying to sleep near monsters- But there’s monsters under my bed.

Hounds are coming- I hear doggies.

Butter- I told Granny butter came from butterflies.

Krampus- But I was a good girl this year.

Broken Ancient Psudoscience Station- It’s all brokeny.

Blue Mushroom (unpicked)- Blue makes flesh stick like glue.

Green Mushroom (unpicked)- Green makes your mind lose its sheen.

Red Mushroom (unpicked)- Red means dead.

•  
•  

 

 

I like them, she seems innocent and she also seems to parrots things she's heard/learned from her elders.

[simplex]

Alright fellas. I have some Winnie quotes for ya. Since this is a group effort, I'd like to post some samples for ya to see if you like the direction of the character.

 

Well, it does fit the character's archetype. Though her overly innocent and folksy nature makes me not like her all that much.

 

Speaking of cars (or vehicles, rather) somebody mentioned in a thread that they thought boats would be impossible to make in a mod. I'm pretty sure it could be made relatively easily, by being a placeable object that you would put near the water and it would do a check of nearby groundtypes, and on activation you could have the player and 'boat' teleport to the same spot (to wherever the not-ground, ie water is) and have the boat follow the player. Then when you hit land (ie the 'wall' of the land) the boat and the player would teleport there. I think the animation part would be tricky, but otherwise it doesn't sound that hard.

 

Just curious, something like that is doable, right? This has nothing to do with U&A, (well, it could potentially in the future, cloudboats, anyone?) it's more of a technical inquiry.

I think it's possible, yes. But since path finding does not work properly on invalid ground I think many issues would pop up along the way. They should be solvable, though, but I can't know for sure without trying.

[Luggs]

Darn it. I forgot my favourite one.

Basic Farm and Improved Farm (needs fertilizer)- But I have no beans...

Anyone familiar with farming will get this. Also anyone who can spot the hidden reference in the first post gets a cookie.

[MycoLogical]

@MycoLogical

Mushroom hat implemented.

(now that characters are all HD hats look a bit fuzzy when zoomed in )

With respect to the art, I think the hat is a bit too low, but otherwise very fitting.

The current effect of the hat is to randomly switch between 6 states:

HEALTH_INCREASE: health increases at 1 point per second

HEALTH_DECREASE: health decreases at -0.8 points per second

HUNGER_INCREASE: hunger increases at 1 point per second

HUNGER_DECREASE: hunger decreases at -0.8 points per second

SANITY_INCREASE: sanity increases at 0.5 points per second

SANITY_DECREASE: sanity decreases at -1.5 points per second

On average, the hat will remain on the same state for 20 seconds (though that's random, this is just the average). The current state is preserved even if you take off the hat, put it in a chest, etc. (and, of course, if you reload the game).

The above values very likely need some tuning. The way they are, the hat is on average beneficial to health and hunger, and harmful to sanity.

It's...it's beautiful!

You made me dream a reality; have a MycoLogical "Thumbs-Up", heck, have twenty of 'em!

Edited April 9, 2014 by MycoLogical

[MilleniumCount]

Ok then,

let's do this in General Development! Shall we?

 

-working, tipping, rattling, snipping-

 

 

Primary reason is to put the "Perma Day" mechanic to the test bench again.

 

-Why do we have it? 

 

-What do we gain?

 

-What do we loose?

 

 

Set aside the logic of perma sun above the clouds (there would still be night anyway) is it the brighter brother of the Perma Night caves? Or did we just try to make it unique without a deeper meaning behind it?

 

It is different to the caves and surface. It is good for exploring, we minimize the "nothing to do" - night phase.

 

We loose a core element of the vanilla game (like others already stated) the fear of the unknown in the darkness. And the possibility to use the Day Night circle for our own things.

Is the gain worth the cost?

Edited April 11, 2014 by MilleniumCount

[debugman18]

Ok then,

let's do this in General Development! Shall we?

 

-working, tipping, rattling, snipping-

 

 

Primary reason is to put the "Perma Day" mechanic to the test bench again.

 

-Why do we have it?

 

-What do we gain?

 

-What do we loose?

 

So my initial reason for perma-day was to encourage exploring and to discourage turtling. However, after further development of the mod, we are addressing all of those things, as well as giving the player the means to counter the winter, as well as night, once implemented. Basically, my initial reasoning for the perma-day is now completely at odds with the way the cloudrealm works.

 

We would gain the ability to take advantage of the day/night cycle, through making the environment more varied. 

 

The cons of this are that we add an extra (potentially thin) layer of difficulty on top of the already permanent winter and hostile environment. However, this is easily countered by additional light sources. The issue is making sure that the additional lightsources added don't unbalance vanilla. So whatever we add light-wise should be impossible or very difficult (ie white staff) to transport to the ground level.

[MilleniumCount]

The cons of this are that we add an extra (potentially thin) layer of difficulty on top of the already permanent winter and hostile environment. However, this is easily countered by additional light sources. The issue is making sure that the additional lightsources added don't unbalance vanilla. So whatever we add light-wise should be impossible or very difficult (ie white staff) to transport to the ground level.

But this will mostly fall into the tweaking category. This will start the moment we test with a bigger amount of testers and audience. We will hunt down exploits und pushing out hotfixes.

We just need to think a bit but that's what alphas and betas are for.

 

No one can expect fully balanced gameplay in an alpha.

Edited April 11, 2014 by MilleniumCount

[debugman18]

But this will mostly fall into the tweaking category. This will start the moment we test with a bigger amount of testers and audience. We will hunt down exploits und pushing out hotfixes.

We just need to think a bit but that's what alphas and betas are for.

 

No one can expect fully balanced gameplay in an alpha.

Of course, but the less issues we have out of the gate, the better.

 

So we should probably examine the available lightsources, to help determine how long we think is reasonable for night in the cloud realm. We have skyflies, who unlike their firefly brethren, do not disappear from the player being too close. We have light crystals, which while they will be guarded by any nearby owls, are abundant enough to be consistently accessible. We have various lightnings/thunders, although those aren't reliable sources of light. We have crystal lamps, which are quite reliable, but at the cost of possibly summoning the Bean Giant.

 

On the other hand, all sources of fire are inaccessible in the cloudrealm, so perhaps we should add our own type of fire, made perhaps with crushed skyflies or something similar? It could thrive (or fall) to static. Maybe even two different fires for each circumstance? I think a color-changing fire would be pretty awesome, now that I imagine it.

Edited April 11, 2014 by debugman18

[MilleniumCount]

On the other hand, all sources of fire are inaccessible in the cloudrealm, so perhaps we should add our own type of fire, made perhaps with crushed skyflies or something similar? It could thrive (or fall) to static. Maybe even two different fires for each circumstance? I think a color-changing fire would be pretty awesome, now that I imagine it.

Yeah, we will push the light tab into scrolling! ^^

And think of fullmoon nights up there I see total chaos aproaching....he

[debugman18]

@simplex

So I tried to turn day/night cycles back on, but there were a couple of issues.

 

Mainly, I haven't confirmed yet, but I think our colourcube override is causing issues, since throughout a day, colors don't change (except for static cycles.)

 

Secondly, this crash happens (which I've never seen before):

...UpAndAway/wicker/init/kernel_components/layering.lua:74: Attempt to reach the global environment! (i0 = 3, i = 5)LUA ERROR stack traceback:        =[C] in function 'error'        ../mods/UpAndAway/wicker/init/kernel_components/layering.lua(74,1) in function 'GetNextEnvironmentThreshold'        ../mods/UpAndAway/wicker/init/kernel_components/layering.lua(93,1) in function 'GetEnvironmentLayer'        ../mods/UpAndAway/wicker/utils/io.lua(69,1) in function 'Nag'        ../mods/UpAndAway/code/debugtools/logging.lua(14,1) in function 'AddComponent'        scripts/components/childspawner.lua(250,1) in function 'TakeOwnership'        scripts/components/childspawner.lua(305,1) in function 'SpawnChild'        scripts/components/childspawner.lua(90,1) in function 'OnUpdate'        scripts/components/childspawner.lua(113,1) in function 'fn'        scripts/scheduler.lua(170,1) in function 'OnTick'        scripts/scheduler.lua(381,1) in function 'RunScheduler'        scripts/update.lua(87,1)        =(tail call) ?        =[C] in function 'xpcall'        ../mods/BetterCrashes/modmain.lua(165,1)LUA ERROR stack traceback:        =[C] in function 'error'        ../mods/BetterCrashes/modmain.lua(154,1)        =(tail call) ?scripts/frontend.lua(712,1) SCRIPT ERROR! Showing error screen  

 

I don't know if that has anything to do with my recent changes (as small as they were) or not, but it doesn't seem to imply that it does.

[Craig_Perry]

day and light cycles coming back! this will be interesting, albeit difficult but its best to wait and see.

[simplex]

Ok, I have a lot to say here.

---

Act I

 

On the other hand, all sources of fire are inaccessible in the cloudrealm, so perhaps we should add our own type of fire, made perhaps with crushed skyflies or something similar? It could thrive (or fall) to static. Maybe even two different fires for each circumstance? I think a color-changing fire would be pretty awesome, now that I imagine it.

I've always been in favour of having a proper day cycle in the cloud realm, so I'm really inclined towards dealing with these issues. Yes, we have to put in proper, reliable and craftable light sources in the cloud realm. The idea has always been to tone down the fire extinguishing capabilities on the cloud realm later on, but nevertheless things like grass and logs do not exist in the cloud realm. I think electricity themed light sources are the way to go.

---

Act II

 

@simplex

So I tried to turn day/night cycles back on, but there were a couple of issues.

 

Mainly, I haven't confirmed yet, but I think our colourcube override is causing issues, since throughout a day, colors don't change (except for static cycles.)

Our handling of colourcubes does need to be adjusted. Currently it operates under the assumption that only one colourcube will ever be used, but it's not hard to extend this behaviour. I wrote while keeping in mind the possibility that the hour of day cycles for the cloud realm would come .

(but I'll have to check the override you had to put in for RoG compatibility, this may make things trickier)

---

Act III

 

Secondly, this crash happens (which I've never seen before):

 

I don't know if that has anything to do with my recent changes (as small as they were) or not, but it doesn't seem to imply that it does.

Not related to your changes. It's triggered by a vanilla bug, though the actual crash is due to an error checking behaviour internal to wicker. To help with bug tracking, I made that whenever a component is overwritten, a warning is printed to the log saying which component is being overwritten, for which entity, and in which file/line. The latter is done by the environment hopping madness I wrote for wicker (which also powers things like BindGlobal and other magic tricks). To prevent the global environment from being affected by misuse of these capabilities (or a bug in their implementation) I trigger an error if the global environment is reached. Since here the target environment (the environment responsible for the component overwrite bug) is the global one (the homeseeker component is being overwritten in childspawner.lua:250), the global environment is being reached.

I'll put in an exception to avoid this crash, even though I don't love the idea of doing this. Bugs should be squashed, not kicked to a corner .

---

Act IV

I finished the implementation of the custom component for handling the Shopkeeper speeches. Now most speeches are presented in a cutscene-like fashion, similar to the Maxwell speech at spawn. During a cutscene a player is invulnerable, i.e. it is put in god mode. Some cutscenes (the major ones) are uninterruptible, while others can be interrupted by clicking, trying to attack or pressing escape. When interrupted, a speech continues, but the camera reverts to the default and the player is allowed to move.

I hope the way of handling speeches is clear enough by reading resources/shopkeeper_speech.lua, but if not let me know. I marked the section os components/speechgiver.lua relevant for speech writing with a "@README@" inside a comment.

And oh, now the Shopkeeper gives you the beans in the middle of a speech, precisely when he says he's given you them, unlike before, when you first got the beans and then the speech started.

Edited April 11, 2014 by simplex

[debugman18]

Lots of text.

 

So that settles it, day/night cycles are coming to the cloud realm. Along with new light sources, of various types. We should come up with at least one or two of those sources for alpha. Also, that Shopkeeper speech is nice!

 

Our todo list is very tiny now (excluding new light sources, I think), so I figured I'd bring up the discussion about our custom tech tree.

 

You have a sample mod for adding a tech tree, but it overrides more files than is desirable, right? Is that our only hope still, or will we have to throw everything into normal categories for the time being?

 

Or did Klei finally sort that out?

Edited April 11, 2014 by debugman18

[simplex]

Also, that Shopkeeper speech is nice!

One more thing I forgot to mention: now the speech for what to do with the beans is being properly given. In the first time it's given, this is done through an interruptible cutscene. If you click on the shopkeeper anytime after that, he'll give the same speech again (to ensure players won't forget it and get lost), but without a cutscene.

One thing I've yet to do is allow speech to be initiated at a distance. Entering a cutscene with the Shopkeeper talking to your face, literally, is a bit odd. Now that we have a custom component using a custom action is quite simple (which will replace the current Activate action).

Our todo list is very tiny now (excluding new light sources, I think), so I figured I'd bring up the discussion about our custom tech tree.

 

You have a sample mod for adding a tech tree, but it overrides more files than is desirable, right? Is that our only hope still, or will we have to throw everything into normal categories for the time being?

 

Or did Klei finally sort that out?

I haven't looked into that since then, but I doubt vanilla (as in, without RoG) has changed. This will hurt compatibility with other mods, but that's the way it's going to have to be.

[KidneyBeanBoy]

Not to bother you, but does anyone have a list of all the current items? The wiki isn't really helping.

Edited April 11, 2014 by KidneyBeanBoy

[debugman18]

Not to bother you, but does anyone have a list of all the current items? The wiki isn't really helping.

I'm tweaking the wiki a little at a time. It'd be nice to have some help with somebody who is familiar with the vanilla wiki.

 

This is a list of prefabs in the mod:

https://github.com/debugman18/UpAndAway/blob/master/prefabfiles.lua

[ArcticFox789]

I'm tweaking the wiki a little at a time. It'd be nice to have some help with somebody who is familiar with the vanilla wiki.

 

This is a list of prefabs in the mod:

https://github.com/debugman18/UpAndAway/blob/master/prefabfiles.lua

 

I'm ranked around 19th on that wiki so I guess you could say I'm fairly familiar.

 

I forgot about the wiki entirely, but I can help out if I can fix my keyboard...Man this thing is the WORST. :/

[simplex]

@debugman18

Fable tech branch implemented. The whole 2 lines of code necessary for implementing it (after importing the wicker plugin, of course ) as well as the fable recipes are in resources/recipes.lua.

And by the way, the reason you were getting a crash before is because you were setting the research lectern's tech tree as FABLE_1 (a nil value), instead of TECH.FABLE_1. Now it has a proper prototyper tree anyway, TUNING.PROTOTYPER_TREES.RESEARCH_LECTERN.

We should decide on whether to start from FABLE_1 or FABLE_2. The only difference is what shows in the crafing widget after you move away from the prototyper (the Cumulocator Station). If we start from FABLE_1, once the player has come into contact with a Cumulocator Station, every non-prototyped fable recipe (of basic tech level, which currently is all of them) will remain in the crafting widget as a greyed out button, with the text "Use a Cumulocator Station to build a prototype!". If we start from FABLE_2, only prototyped recipes remain in the widgets, with all the rest only appearing when in range of a Cumulocator Station.

EDIT:

By the way, there is no such thing as FABLE_ONE, FABLE_TWO, etc. Numerals must be used (FABLE_1, FABLE_2, ...), the maximum of which is currently 3 (FABLE_3), the second argument given to TheMod:AddTechBranch. Numerals are used because the tech levels are automatically generated.

Edited April 12, 2014 by simplex

[simplex]

Are jellyshrooms really supposed to be this large? I always thought their current stature was just a Spriter consequence of Willette having drawn them in very high res, and that they would be shrinked. Is this not the case?

[debugman18]

Are jellyshrooms really supposed to be this large? I always thought their current stature was just a Spriter consequence of Willette having drawn them in very high res, and that they would be shrinked. Is this not the case?

 

I don't know. I've gotten used to it, but... How does a field of them look if you shrink them?

[simplex]

I don't know. I've gotten used to it, but... How does a field of them look if you shrink them?

A bit like this (but, ya know, in the cloud realm):

This is with 50% scaling.