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Excess

Uprooting stuff should have a chance of killing the plant

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Excess    55

There's been talk about nerfing the berry bushes because most players uproot them and replant them tightly near their camp, so they say it's too easy to get food.

But it's not the berry bushes' fault. Berry bushes are delicately balanced to give a quick yet provisional way of survival in the first days. And I mean provisional because you have to run around all day to pick enough berrys to actually come out with a surplus at the end of the day, after feeding yourself up to 100 again.

Having all the berry bushes together defeats the purpose, because there are WAY too many bushes scattered around, and you harvest them quite fast; at least until the gobbler grows some balls an starts attacking you, instead of making you choke to death in your own preferred beverage by making you laugh with his silly walk :D

How do we fix the long term surplus of uprooted bushes without damaging the short term feeding a newcomer needs?

Easy, you introduce a penalty on uprooting stuff:

Every time you uproot a berry bush, a grass patch or a sapling, there's a %50 chance you'll kill the plant and won't regrow.

It may seem harsh, but no pain no gain. You have to think what's best for you, having half the resources near you, or having all of them but scattered around.

It even makes sense: None of the characters is a gardener or a botanist. Perhaps this could be the characteristic for the mysterious fifth (currently)unlockable character that looks like an old lady, by the look of her silhouette. She could be the only one with an %85 rate of plant survival, along with more efficient fertilizer on the farms. She could be vegan :D

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Excess    55
I like the fact that one accidental fire can ruin it ALL!

That IS one disadvantage of having a bunch of stuff all neatly aligned in one place, but I bet %99 of the players just quits and starts over that day.

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LadyD    3307

I did that once... I burnt out two tall bird nests. Those I know I had no chance ever recovering. Accidental fires are harsh.

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Excess    55
Just wait until the firedogs show up.

HEY, don't derail my thread or I'll call the de...

...firedogs, huh? Interesting. I see a lot of charcoal in our future.

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LadyD    3307

Because of COURSE Kevin would give us something ADORABLE and LOVELY.

Its not Dalmatians...

ITs NEVER just Dalmatians.

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mobius187    30

Well I thought my suggestions from the other thread were all good ones that helped reduce the effectiveness of berry bushes.

While I wouldn't be against the idea of bushes dying when you dig them up... 50% seems a bit harsh. I might opt for 25%, but then throw in some of the other suggestions too in order to further balance it.

As for fire dogs... no comment.

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mobius187    30
Don't like it? don't use it!

True. And without a shovel how would we rob graves? Would PrincessJane deny us our basic human right to rob the dead?!? :eek:

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Excess    55
Well I thought my suggestions from the other thread were all good ones that helped reduce the effectiveness of berry bushes.

They are good suggestions, if you are already on day 20 and have tons of other possibilities to gather food.

Berrys are the first thing you eat (along with carrots, but they are finite) and they should not be nerfed, or starting a game would be extremely frustrating and slow.

What should be nerfed is the act of grouping a lot of bushes near your camp in the mid-game.

The only suggestion I read so far that wouldn't ruin the fresh-started games would be season, which I would love, but we are far from having seasons. This is a more immediate solution that can be "de-nerfed" in the future.

That's what I'm after, and that's why I "branched" a new thread from the other one.

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mobius187    30

While the changes I suggested would definitely slow player progress in the initial days, I wouldn't see them as screwing the player over in terms of difficulty. As you mentioned the game already provides carrots, berry bushes, and rabbits for food. By removing the ability for players to catch rabbits with their bare hands only means they'll do what I did when I played Wilson, namely make traps.

Now depending on whether we opt for fewer rabbits or a longer respawn time, that will play a role. Obviously fewer rabbits wouldn't be too hard on the player, as I recall hunting with only 3 traps early on, and let's be honest you only need 4 meaty stews to completely refill your stomach each day. Maybe more if you're cutting down trees, but I see it as doable.

It's glad we agree about seasons, because I love the idea of seasons. In this way players will have cues that they need to stockpile food for the coming winter, and to be honest after Day 20 or so we usually have lots of food under current circumstances. I can only imagine how much work would go into creating seasons though, but a man can dream. :)

Also, you didn't like the idea of having berry bushes attract tall birds? And then having them eat the berries? I thought that would be a good solution to hoarding too many bushes.

Anyway, the long and the short of the matter is that kill berry bushes could certainly be an answer... but I'm reluctant to back any solution that could potentially lead to topiary genocide, as currently there is no way to re/grow berry bushes. And a simple solution to that problem might nerf your suggestion. Hmmm. Anywho, let's just keep coming up with suggestions. :)

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Excess    55
[...] and let's be honest you only need 4 meaty stews to completely refill your stomach each day.

Meaty stews, which you cook on the Crocked Pot, which you have to unlock building two science machines, one of which is itself locked.

You are still thinking like if you where on day 20 :D

The first days you are bare handed. You can't even make a spear to hunt rabbits (it's locked). You have to make several traps to survive on rabbits, and that means collecting grass from all over the island, not from your day 20 neatly grass garden you replanted in your camp. All you have are a couple of one-time carrots and the hope that berries re-grow faster than you eat them. Nerf that and you are screwed.

Also, you didn't like the idea of having berry bushes attract tall birds? And then having them eat the berries?

Not with tallbirds, no. Tallbirds spawn on the rock island, which in my experience is almost always the furthest island from your spawn. I've never had a camp with hoarder berry bushes near tallbirds, ever.

I would gladly change tallbirds for crows and whatever-the-red-birds-are-called. Birds always spawn in your viewport, meaning that there are no birds spawning in the whole world that you can't see. If a bird spawn, you are looking at it.

That said, if undisturbed birds ate berrys, that means that you should have to spend time scaring the birds of your camp constantly, potentially having to keep the bushes illuminated during the night to scare the birds without the grue scaring you.

This wouldn't affect wild berrys, as you wouldn't be there for birds to spawn. Even better, perhaps birds would only be attracted to berrys if two or more bushes where placed near each other, effectively rendering this "menace" null for starting hungry players.

[...] but I'm reluctant to back any solution that could potentially lead to topiary genocide [...] And a simple solution to that problem might nerf your suggestion. Hmmm. Anywho, let's just keep coming up with suggestions. :)

Thing is, with the threat of genocide, hoarding bushes would became a risky option (like is hunting monster meat) instead of the de-facto way of surviving of the %90 of the players currently.

I could allow a little nerfing on the bush killing if the berry-eating birds are implement along :D

Always a pleasure to brainstorming with you Mobius.

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mobius187    30
Meaty stews, which you cook on the Crocked Pot, which you have to unlock building two science machines, one of which is itself locked.

Hmmm. I wish there was a proper Don't Starve wiki to reference as I probably mispoke. What I meant was the bowl dish you get when you cook a meat morsel over a fire. I thought it looked like a stew... but you're probably right that the meaty stew is from the Crock Pot. Long story short, if you get 4 meat morsels cook them, and eat them, then that's enough to keep your stomach full or mostly full.

You are still thinking like if you where on day 20 :D

What can I say, I'm a Day 20 sort of guy...

The first days you are bare handed. You can't even make a spear to hunt rabbits (it's locked). You have to make several traps to survive on rabbits, and that means collecting grass from all over the island, not from your day 20 neatly grass garden you replanted in your camp. All you have are a couple of one-time carrots and the hope that berries re-grow faster than you eat them. Nerf that and you are screwed.

When I restarted with Wendy all I started by collecting what was close at hand, but my initial goal was to get enough flint and saplings to create an axe. With that axe I could cut down trees for the campfire I'd need that night, but once I had that problem out of the way I hunted rabbits. You don't need a spear to hunt rabbits as an axe will kill one in a single hit. From there you'll either get lucky when stumbling across rabbits and kill them in 2-3 seconds, or need to circle around which takes 5-8 seconds. Either way it's fairly simple to kill 4 rabbits before sunset. At the same time I'm collecting grass, berries and carrots (which I tend to eat right away to restore hunger gained throughout the day). Then at nightfall I create the campfire and cook the rabbit meat on it. The next day is usually the same, but I end up with an even larger stockpile of resources...and this continue until I'm ready to venture on to the grassy plains and setup my base camp.

Not with tallbirds, no. Tallbirds spawn on the rock island, which in my experience is almost always the furthest island from your spawn. I've never had a camp with hoarder berry bushes near tallbirds, ever.

True, they spawned on a rocky island on my map, but it wasn't the farthest map from where I spawned. For me there was my island, the grassy plains island, and then the rocky island. The bridge to said third island was longer than most however, but the swamp island for me is the one that's the farthest away.

Also, my suggestion about the tallbirds coming to eat your berries would necessitate the need to allow animals to willingly cross the island bridges, where currently they don't, staying instead on their own islands.

I would gladly change tallbirds for crows and whatever-the-red-birds-are-called. Birds always spawn in your viewport, meaning that there are no birds spawning in the whole world that you can't see. If a bird spawn, you are looking at it.

That said, if undisturbed birds ate berrys, that means that you should have to spend time scaring the birds of your camp constantly, potentially having to keep the bushes illuminated during the night to scare the birds without the grue scaring you.

Hmmm. Don't birds all fly off when it becomes nightfall or are you suggesting they shouldn't? Also, if the DEVs were to imeplement birds eating berries from bushes then I would hope they would also include a new invention, namely the scarecrow. I mentioned elsewhere that the scarecrow (pumpkin + sticks + grass) would be a placeable that would indicate its "effect zone", or how large an area it will protect, so the player will know how best to place it and whether they'll need more than one to cover larger areas.

On a side note, if birds landed next to bushes to eat berries from them that could also serve as another means to capture them. Place a bird trap next to a berry bush, just like you place a rabbit trap over a rabbit hole... and Sooner or later you catch one based on the virtue that you know they'll be attracted to that spot.

This wouldn't affect wild berrys, as you wouldn't be there for birds to spawn. Even better, perhaps birds would only be attracted to berrys if two or more bushes where placed near each other, effectively rendering this "menace" null for starting hungry players.

That could also work.

Thing is, with the threat of genocide, hoarding bushes would became a risky option (like is hunting monster meat) instead of the de-facto way of surviving of the %90 of the players currently.

I could allow a little nerfing on the bush killing if the berry-eating birds are implement along :D

Well we certainly wouldn't want to apply every single nerf we've suggested in this thread and others. It's all about a careful balance.

Always a pleasure to brainstorming with you Mobius.

Same here. We do good work. ;)

Edited by mobius187

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Excess    55

You are right about the rabbits, I forgot that the axe now is cheaper on flint, and as I haven't hunted a rabbit with an axe in years I thought it would be less effective on rabbits as it is on spiders.

Anyway, I've already ditched this whole idea and I'm rooting for the "nutrition zone" for each plant on that other thread :D

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mobius187    30
You are right about the rabbits, I forgot that the axe now is cheaper on flint, and as I haven't hunted a rabbit with an axe in years I thought it would be less effective on rabbits as it is on spiders.

Well for me I wasn't around that long so I wouldn't have been here for the tool vs spear nerf (for combat). I did however read about it. But yes, any tool right now is a "one hit kill" for rabbits. I suppose it makes sense when you think about it. Of course I still miss every now and then, but I'm not sure whether that's on purpose or a glitch. I hope it's not a glitch, as I like the idea of not always hitting.

Anyway, I've already ditched this whole idea and I'm rooting for the "nutrition zone" for each plant on that other thread :D

That was an interesting idea. I'll take this discussion to that thread then...

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