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Is the old bell justified to make a return in dst?


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On 7/2/2023 at 1:21 AM, Nikki Darks said:

Taking griefing into consideration when discussing a game like DST which has PUBLIC servers and PRIVATE servers is pointless.

You cannot balance and should NOT balance the griefing part of the game around PUBLIC servers which are PUBLIC and ANYONE can join in, and the player quality is unreliable and out of your control.

And in private servers you get to CHOOSE which TYPE of player you play with and you KNOW what you're getting yourself into, making griefing YOUR OWN fault for letting BAD PEOPLE into your server.

Griefing is NEVER the issue of an item or a mechanic, it's the issue of BAD PEOPLE EXISTING.

Stop trying to balance the game around pubs because you have no friends to play with and embrace these creative items which bring more life into the game.

Since Willow was mentioned, Willow's griefing potential with fire starting was a mistake of the PLAYER who wasn't GOOD enough to MANAGE their sanity, which yet again is an issue on the player's part, not the mechanic's.

Go get some friends, stop trying to sanitize and dumb down the game until it's a blank slate with no interesting mechanics just because some BAD PERSON might MISUSE an interesting item or mechanic.

<3

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I play excusively on pub and I couldn't agree more. Thank you for speaking the truth

Also yes, havint the old bell back would be sick, even though 1000 damages in DST isn't much... maybe they could rebalance it for the game!

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2 hours ago, b l a n k said:

Also yes, havint the old bell back would be sick, even though 1000 damages in DST isn'much... maybe they could rebalance it for the game!

1k damage may be an insect bite in DST but I would still appricerate it even if it ended up purely as a way for monster characters to get wood fast in the first year. (Not hiring pigs sucks)

Rebalanced... Say, 3k? Idrk, unless you made it absurdly hard-hitting it would cost so many panflute and old bell uses that it'd be impractical, and a 10k bell would make people go absolutely insane.

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On 7/1/2023 at 5:32 AM, _zwb said:

I'm already sick of kicking new players just because they don't know what the pan flute or star caller staff do, adding another potential griefing method is not doing any good. Yes, rollbacks exist but think of the time wasted because you have to rollback every so often. Nope thank you.

That moment when I see a player go to sleep after eating something.

 

Sincerely,

Cactus 

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On 7/2/2023 at 5:23 AM, Scrimbles said:

Over all I agree, but there's also "accidental" destruction to factor in;

What if a player doesn't know what the bell does, and happens to ring it in a public lobby? What if someone rings it and Biiigfoot just happens to stomp off in the direction of some important structures?

Aside from that, I think it was a really easy to get item at early stages of the game that can easily wipe out bosses without much though, so I'm not exactly sad that it's gone.

what if the person doesnt know what eating raw monster meat does? what if they dont know what the lava pools do and go right in? what if they dont know how crockpot works and they torch it (trust me i have seen this one)? what if they dont know what staying in the dark does? what if they dont know the consequences of letting deerclops approach the base? what if they dont know how worldgen setting screen works and they set every deadly thing to insane? what if they keep cooking monster lasagna with valuable food? what if they dont know not to eat deerclops eyeball? what if they dont know not to attack herd mobs? what if they dont know why its a bad idea to put spider eggs in the middle of the base? what if they dont know pigskin is valuable in earlygame and sell all of it? what if they put living logs into the firepit because they think its useless? what if they keep going insane and give misery to all other players because they dont know green caps take away sanity?

the answer:

they experiment and find out

thats it

some of them have larger consequences than others and cause your death and maybe of many others but thats just nature of DST and the natural progression of an average player

and i dont think bigfoot destroying more than few structures is even likely let alone destroying an entire base 

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personally, i think since it's been gone for so long, there really is no point adding it back outside of nostalgia. and also

5 hours ago, HellHeater said:

what if the person doesnt know what eating raw monster meat does? what if they dont know what the lava pools do and go right in? what if they dont know how crockpot works and they torch it (trust me i have seen this one)? what if they dont know what staying in the dark does? what if they dont know the consequences of letting deerclops approach the base? what if they dont know how worldgen setting screen works and they set every deadly thing to insane? what if they keep cooking monster lasagna with valuable food? what if they dont know not to eat deerclops eyeball? what if they dont know not to attack herd mobs? what if they dont know why its a bad idea to put spider eggs in the middle of the base? what if they dont know pigskin is valuable in earlygame and sell all of it? what if they put living logs into the firepit because they think its useless? what if they keep going insane and give misery to all other players because they dont know green caps take away sanity?

the answer:

they experiment and find out

thats it

some of them have larger consequences than others and cause your death and maybe of many others but thats just nature of DST and the natural progression of an average player

and i dont think bigfoot destroying more than few structures is even likely let alone destroying an entire base 

There was a bad paragraph here because I typed this late at night as i only read the first paragraph. Move along

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5 hours ago, HellHeater said:

what if the person doesnt know what eating raw monster meat does? what if they dont know what the lava pools do and go right in? what if they dont know how crockpot works and they torch it (trust me i have seen this one)? what if they dont know what staying in the dark does? what if they dont know the consequences of letting deerclops approach the base? what if they dont know how worldgen setting screen works and they set every deadly thing to insane? what if they keep cooking monster lasagna with valuable food? what if they dont know not to eat deerclops eyeball? what if they dont know not to attack herd mobs? what if they dont know why its a bad idea to put spider eggs in the middle of the base? what if they dont know pigskin is valuable in earlygame and sell all of it? what if they put living logs into the firepit because they think its useless? what if they keep going insane and give misery to all other players because they dont know green caps take away sanity?

the answer:

they experiment and find out

thats it

some of them have larger consequences than others and cause your death and maybe of many others but thats just nature of DST and the natural progression of an average player

and i dont think bigfoot destroying more than few structures is even likely let alone destroying an entire base 

You're comparing consequences to a singular player to consequences of mass destruction?

Why bring up world gen? That literally doesn't matter in multiplayer because a world is set and defined before people can join.

Your arguements have nothing to do with what I was saying. I suppose Deerclops is the closest comparison, except he is a direct threat, not a tool. He is an NPC that does his job.

None of what you brought up can objectively ruin the multiplayer experience the way the old bell could.

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17 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

None of what you brought up can objectively ruin the multiplayer experience the way the old bell could.

exactly and thats because none of them (including old bell) can ruin multiplayer experience in the first place. all of them are "normal" ways to die and thats just what dont starve together is. dst has permadeath and if devs didnt want people to have stupid deaths you learn from, we would not have dst like this in the first place 

i find the arguement of "but griefers and inexperienced players can use it" pointless

i believe i already explained myself about inexperienced players simply figuring things out themselves and living with the results - almost everything i said cause death or destruction both to the new player and maybe their friends. so would you like to get klei to simply remove everything there aswell? 

and when it comes to griefers, as many people above mentioned, all they need to grief a base is 2 grass, 2 twigs and a "hi everyone" in the chat and they will be griefing the base no matter there is an old bell or not.

not only that withholding content only and only because some people might misuse it absurd in my opinion.

mostly because how can a very small bad portion of the community can affect development of a game negatively? its even worse considering klei is letting this negative effect go on instead of letting mods (sorry console players) handle the anti grief mechanics themselves. there are many mods not allowing a new player to burn/destroy structures and just as easily can prevent players using old bell near structures

if you want to discuss about console players not having mods then yes anti grief mechanics are needed but why does it need to negatively affect a person playing solo? they can add similar stuff taken from said mods and keep them in worldgen 

however, who cares? again, all a griefer needs is a torch and thats it thats the griefing they wanted. old bell is useless for them.

17 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

Why bring up world gen? That literally doesn't matter in multiplayer because a world is set and defined before people can join.

its something inconvenient for the inexperienced potential host and their potential friends so even though it fits less, i thought it fits there

17 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

You're comparing consequences to a singular player to consequences of mass destruction?

what do you mean mass destruction? and what do you mean singular player (see above [I think you simply didnt read my text])? using old bell even at the center of the base will at most destroy few tiles of structures. or at worst it will destroy maybe like 10 chests if the inexperienced in question happens to find it in the chest area.

and the cost? just spending few minutes recrafting the chests and organizing them. its really really not a big deal.

and what if a griefer finds it? again, that base was gone already its not like griefer cant find an 8% torch or just simply cant craft one. that base was gone as soon as griefer joined and acted friendly.

besides if old bell were to exist in dst wouldnt it just have a turn off switch in worldgen? many things does have the switch and i dont see why old bell shouldnt.

man i texted too much 

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7 hours ago, oCrapaCreeper said:

If people have to mention roll back to justify adding something to the game then it probably shouldn't be added.

It is the same deal as deerclops. If a noob spawns it in base with no clue of it, rollback. If someone rings the bell that was made acessable in base by accident or unkowing of what it does, rollback. If someone  burns base, rollback. These kind of things stop people from ruining the game for everyone for potentially very easy to avoid things, and is is a good justification since, like all greifing methods, if someone uses the bell as a double edged sword like so many easily accessable items in the game to greif then it is dealt with the exact same way as if someone burned everything.

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I don't see a reason to add the bell as its been so long other then nostalgia. It was a bad item in single player so...

but i don't see the griefing side of the argument though, as like. a hammer or a torch is easier. Yeah, its cooler to stomp on base with a giant foot, but greifers are generally lazy and with noobies, you could A: tell them B they should be smart enough not to try random items at base. yeah, it won't destroy a lot but its still annoying when it stomps on your furnace for example, but those are REPAIRABLE as the expensive items give almost all there materials back. And how it the same as deerclops? deerclops gives advance warning he is coming with your character is saying something bad is coming. why would a noobie want to fight it in home base? i think you guys think noobies are stupid or something, because there not. and if there not aware tell them, problem solved. They have context clues to see what's going on. and you can defend deerclops, as if you are not panicking you can figure out its attack pattern, or even cleverer, find out how directional the attack is. like I'm pretty sure every item can be used to grief in SOME way, even small so i don't see it. (Strident trident can destroy boat bases, etc)

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9 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

You're comparing consequences to a singular player to consequences of mass destruction?

Why bring up world gen? That literally doesn't matter in multiplayer because a world is set and defined before people can join.

Your arguements have nothing to do with what I was saying. I suppose Deerclops is the closest comparison, except he is a direct threat, not a tool. He is an NPC that does his job.

None of what you brought up can objectively ruin the multiplayer experience the way the old bell could.

the torch you can get within the first minute of joining the world:

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10 hours ago, Scrimbles said:

You're comparing consequences to a singular player to consequences of mass destruction?

Why bring up world gen? That literally doesn't matter in multiplayer because a world is set and defined before people can join.

Your arguements have nothing to do with what I was saying. I suppose Deerclops is the closest comparison, except he is a direct threat, not a tool. He is an NPC that does his job.

None of what you brought up can objectively ruin the multiplayer experience the way the old bell could.

The new Beaver butt slam is a tool, and can easily destroy a base in a fun way, and that is not an issue. It is as easy to missclick as the bell, as destructive as the bell, and less controlable as the bell (You can just stick the bell somewhere away from base, it is like keeping an active bomb in base, it would be your fault of you miss clicked it).

 

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5 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The new Beaver butt slam is a tool, and can easily destroy a base in a fun way, and that is not an issue. It is as easy to missclick as the bell, as destructive as the bell, and less controlable as the bell (You can just stick the bell somewhere away from base, it is like keeping an active bomb in base, it would be your fault of you miss clicked it).

And probably was a mistake to introduce it. Playing pubs since last update came up I saw a lot more "Beaver tail-slam communal camp into non-existence" than players using it in good faith for farming wood. Frankly I don't even remember seeing a Woodie employing the "butt-slam" for wood gathering. Certainly there are N griefing methods "right out of gate", but.. why bring even more, and in 1-click "atomic bomb" capacity? At least for Torch/Hammer they take some time to destroy all camp, but the AoE ones... "how can disappear base with 1 press of a button". Sure is fun for the troll, won't contest that.

PS: also this - "...can easily destroy a base in a fun way..." - interesting choice of wording; some more caviller people would think it kinda betrays you and your.. propensities, eh.

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