kNichael

Randomness in this game is what kills the fun

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kNichael    37

Alright, first of all, I am writing this as a result to my salt levels reaching an all time high, but I also wanted to share my thoughts about this topic and get it out of the way.

The game can be fun and all that, but because of the sheer randomness and the punishment you get for not being lucky enough to get x thing in your world in that specific time can either make or break your world, this is more or less leaning towards boss rushes but I think that some of it might apply to other ways of playing, so feel free to disagree, I don't intend to create any heated arguments, I just want to express myself.

This is all from personal experience, so I have some very specific examples to back up my claim.

I'm playing Wanda and I want to rush the ruins in autumn and I need marble to make my alarming clock and another ageless watch, while gathering materials I am also searching for marble sculptures, more than half of the world is explored, tough luck buddy, seems that the clock is ticking and you still haven't found your precious marble, looks like you will have to rely on the earthquakes to drop your marble, or just restart the world. I make another world, I find the marble, but tough luck again, no moleworms to be found. Okay, I make ANOTHER world and I find everything and I go to ruins, what I get as a reward is the smallest ruins branches. Let's say in another run, I don't get enough gems for the full setup. Okay, get that out of the way, and it is winter and I want to fight Klaus while also prepping for BQ, Deerclops and moving the suspicious marble pieces but again, tough luck, no deer to be found because their movement is so ******* random and the map doesn't show the deer so I have to spend precious time to find them and maybe I won't even since I searched for them in the biomes they are intended to appear in. I fight shadow pieces and some spiders aggro one of them and that piece despawns so I have to wait 20 days to even attempt this fight again and maybe something else will happen that will interrupt the fight and cause me to wait 20 MORE days, ah, such fun. Maybe I want to do my pearl tasks but I can't seem to find one salt formation or whoever knows what I am looking for in the sea. Okay, I did everything intended, and I start to make my mega base and it is exactly near a meteor field, guess I have to make another world and repeat the same stuff again and again until finally the gods bless me with a normal world. This could go on forever because there are many more instances of rng screwing my play time, and also others.

With all of this said, rng sucks in this game, I know it might not be a big deal, yes I know I am salty rn and I wish you a good day <33.

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Keller Max    412

Its much more interesting when things can go not as you planned. Wish there was some kind of "Director AI" (L4D) or a Storyteller AI (Rimworld)

So if you have a bad time, then you won't get too much random ******** going to ruin your day much more.

And you are doing too good: Progressing too fast or and so on... Get ready for your ass to get kicked by natural disasters, mob raids and so on...

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Spino43    1269

I find DST's RNG is good to keep the exploring entertaining enough.

Have to admit the second deciduous, meteor biome make me angry as hell, they shouldn't even exist in the first place if you ask me.

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00petar00    731

As many have said it is better for there to be randomness so not every run will be the same and what is the rush anyway? Do you need to kill all bosses in the first year? I try to focus on building a bit in the first year and exploring the map so that i don't speedrun bosses and leave something to do later.

Why do you need to kill BQ as Wanda so fast? Bundlewraps aren't needed, you don't use healing food and sanity restoration also doesn't matter unless you are fighting other bosses as you can easily kill night creatures with alarming clock and it is just free nightmare fuel. Where i am getting with this is that you don't need to bundlewrap any specific food for later.

What are moggles for, they just waste inventory space and are annoying to refuel, just use lantern. Why would you need to restart the world because you didn't find more worms?

The idea is to cut everything that requires luck that you don't need. I just rush ruins and kill dragonfly while exploring for the rest of the first autumn.

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SinancoTheBest    6287

This is such a first world problem. Any world that starts up without major bugs in world generation gives everything essential for you to reach all the content in the game (minor exceptions include worlds without any saplings, juicy berry bushes or fancy berry bushes but even then you aren't blocked off from content as you'll still get twigs and berries.

There are no worlds without beefalo, without volt goats, without rock lobsters, without pig king, without crab king, without dragonfly, without the essential shadow marble setpiece (specifically relevant in your case), without at least one ancient pseudoscience station, without oasis, without lunar island, without at least one mctusk, without a decidious, without archives, without grotto, without mosaic, without waterlogged, without red mushforest, without pearl's island etc.

The randomness in world generation serves to make worlds unique and different in each playthrough while ensuring players aren't blocked off from any parti6vular content. I agree that more ways of world regrowth should be added to ensure nothing becomes extinct forever so I really appreciate the recent changes made about volt goat spawning, hollow stump respawning, reeds re-materializing etc. But overall I don't think this is an actual problem in DST as healthy world generation ensures at least minimal amount of everything will spawn and world will regrow to ensure integrity of most entities/resources.

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kNichael    37
1 hour ago, Keller Max said:

Its much more interesting when things can go not as you planned. Wish there was some kind of "Director AI" (L4D) or a Storyteller AI (Rimworld)

So if you have a bad time, then you won't get too much random ******** going to ruin your day much more.

And you are doing too good: Progressing too fast or and so on... Get ready for your ass to get kicked by natural disasters, mob raids and so on...

I think my ass should get kicked for not handling those types of situations well, like not being able to kill those hounds etc. Let's say I want to fight Klaus and I can fight him, I have practiced him, I have everything ready, but I am searching for the deer, it would be pretty unfair that the only thing holding me back would be that, but I do get your point and that would certainly be a good way to look at it

 

1 hour ago, ALCRD said:

I actually like randomness in this game. Keeps things somewhat "fresh".

Anyways the amount of world options the game provide can easily solve most of the examples you struggled with.

Also for Wanda there is another potentially "easier" way to get components for Alarming clock than rushing ruins ;)

Agreed, but in some areas I would not prefer as much randomness.

I have changed some things about the world settings, mainly just getting more resources to spawn like grass, twigs etc. But it is a little hard for me to not consider that cheating even though the game doesn't care in the least bit xd

As for Wanda rushing the ruins, it's more action-packed let's say :)

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Lokena    262
3 hours ago, kNichael said:

Okay, get that out of the way, and it is winter and I want to fight Klaus while also prepping for BQ, Deerclops and moving the suspicious marble pieces but again, tough luck, no deer to be found because their movement is so ******* random and the map doesn't show the deer so I have to spend precious time to find them and maybe I won't even since I searched for them in the biomes they are intended to appear in.

Just to clarify, are you looking for deer in autumn or already in winter? Because they spawn in the autumn. If winter has already started and you haven't seen deer or been near these biomes, they won't show up. And yes, they can walk for quite a long distance, but I think you can put them in a pen in the autumn and return to them in the winter? They sleep and don't move at night, and a fence is not so expensive or difficult to install. Yes, it will take some extra time, but it's hardly a high price to pay for them to stay in one known place. Might not be as effective in a mosaic biome though. Meteorites can destroy it. But should work in the deciduous? Just a thought.

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DeadWhereX    129

I have experienced bad world generation. Several times the oasis desert is very small or is genereted next to the meteor biome or very close to the Dragonfly. But for me, the most annoying RNG are wormholes. I've seen many worlds with wormholes that just travel two or three screens. I don't play Wanda, so wormholes are important for me.

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Lumine04    185

Sets every resource to more

World on loop always, branch never

World size, big 

 

Problem solved :P

Edited by Lumine04
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Copyafriend    665
30 minutes ago, reallychina said:

 

By the logic of more randomness = good, there should be no astral detector, no message in a bottle, no cut edges to point to lunar etc. Congratulations, you just spent 50 days more on this super rAndOm ocean to find them.

Good randomess is having some degree of predictability on where stuff should be. It doesnt mean they will always be there. It means you can make a plan and slightly modify it.

 

Marble statues being pure random is bad randomness, atrium tentapillar is bad randomness, salt is bad randonness etc

 

while i agree with the idea that more randomness is not inherently a good thing, I disagree with what seems to be your definition of “bad rng”

not everything should have a predictable location. Predictability should be reserved for mundane resources. I know i can find grass in a savannah, but theres no reason for statues to be biome specific. Once you find some they’re completely renewable and able to be relocated, but thats why they cant just be found in one reliable location, the only challenge once you get some is growth time and harvest method, you can grow an infinite amount once you gat one. And as such the limiter should be finding that first marble.

Salt as well, should not just be random, but relatively rare. A salt box is a mostly upgrade to the icebox. An icebox is not easy to obtain unless you get lucky or go to an endgame area. They’re both commodities not necessary, but powerful and resolves what is otherwise a MAJOR problem for new players: spoilage. Im sure you shrug off spoilage because you have 1000 hours and know most things, but for a new player, an ice box is a game changer. A salt box? Thats mindblowingly useful. It lets some foods stay edible through most of an entire season. Klei has decided to gatekeep their resources, and as a result, for new players it means something when they get an icebox. Heck, I still get excited when i find some clockworks early on, because it solves a problem that is otherwise a major hassle. Imagine if salt was predictable. Like you could always find a few of the regrowing salt statues in a mosaic biome. Then salt becomes a checklist item. Grab grass, grab sticks, grab gold, rocks, 20 logs, and some salt when i see a mosaic biome. Or if it was just offshore of a swamp biome, id always just make a boat and a paddle and grab it, etc etc. 
 

its a survival game, it shouldn’t spoon feed you every resource. If every resource is easy to find then no resource is more valuable than the others. Any significant amount of Gems are locked behind a boss you have to use prep for, or an endgame area you have to prep to loot, but you’re not complaining about that. Its the same concept, you have to spend time to get the resource. 

 

Some of your examples i do agree with however. The atrium should have a difficult to craft item that takes you there, because locking it behind a tentapiller serves no interesting gameplay purpose in my eyes, while also being unintuitive and nearly impossible to figure out for yourself. I dont have a problem because its random, i have a problem because theres enough stuff gatekeeping the atrium from actually doing anything before the player is ready without the weird tentapillar tunnel. 

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ALCRD    2672
4 minutes ago, Lumine04 said:

Sets every resource to more

World on loop always, branch never

World size, big 

 

Problem solved :P

Just whatever you do don't set Caves on "loop always" xD you will deeply regret it.

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Lumine04    185
1 minute ago, ALCRD said:

Just whatever you do don't set Caves on "loop always" xD you will deeply regret it.

Been there done that, not only the awful generation but the ruins was sooo small

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Lyl2333    232

I understand some players don’t like randomness, but it nevertheless gives me the frustrated feeling of ppl not getting your best jokes:/

(To have the alarm-clock, I usually just dig graves, if no bishop around. Pretty high chance you get a purple gem or a red+ blue one.Still, it’s chancy. ) 

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Faintly Macabre    1277

"Randomness in this game is what kills the fun," says the title of a topic on the official forum for a 10-year-old procedurally generated survival sandbox game series

I can't see any reason to expect every single one of the things that OP outlines not going perfectly as planned to be so predictable. Also spiders don't spontaneously propagate so why is that even part of it? Don't fight shadow pieces where there are spiders. The overwhelming majority of the map has no spiders on it.

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yourAnty    245

World gen is fine, stale at times but fine (we need more setpieces) the ONLY randomness that can somewhat kill the fun is malbatross spawning and rockjaw spawning/attack patterns.

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Mysterious box    2026

Personally I feel like more needs to be added to it rather than removing tho personally I feel like the main island needs more content in general it's too bare and empty I get so hyped when world gen gets goes crazy due to one reason or another and you get weird combos like lunar island connected to the swamp or tentacles in the birch biome (extremely rare)

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Well-met    7078

have you considered that "rushing ruins" should prove difficult and shouldn't be easily accessible?

if worldgen allows you to pull it off, consider it a blessing or a gift even. Otherwise cope and build your forces like everyone else.

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reallychina    867
2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

 

while i agree with the idea that more randomness is not inherently a good thing, I disagree with what seems to be your definition of “bad rng”

not everything should have a predictable location. Predictability should be reserved for mundane resources. I know i can find grass in a savannah, but theres no reason for statues to be biome specific. Once you find some they’re completely renewable and able to be relocated, but thats why they cant just be found in one reliable location, the only challenge once you get some is growth time and harvest method, you can grow an infinite amount once you gat one. And as such the limiter should be finding that first marble.

Salt as well, should not just be random, but relatively rare. A salt box is a mostly upgrade to the icebox. An icebox is not easy to obtain unless you get lucky or go to an endgame area. They’re both commodities not necessary, but powerful and resolves what is otherwise a MAJOR problem for new players: spoilage. Im sure you shrug off spoilage because you have 1000 hours and know most things, but for a new player, an ice box is a game changer. A salt box? Thats mindblowingly useful. It lets some foods stay edible through most of an entire season. Klei has decided to gatekeep their resources, and as a result, for new players it means something when they get an icebox. Heck, I still get excited when i find some clockworks early on, because it solves a problem that is otherwise a major hassle. Imagine if salt was predictable. Like you could always find a few of the regrowing salt statues in a mosaic biome. Then salt becomes a checklist item. Grab grass, grab sticks, grab gold, rocks, 20 logs, and some salt when i see a mosaic biome. Or if it was just offshore of a swamp biome, id always just make a boat and a paddle and grab it, etc etc. 
 

its a survival game, it shouldn’t spoon feed you every resource. If every resource is easy to find then no resource is more valuable than the others. Any significant amount of Gems are locked behind a boss you have to use prep for, or an endgame area you have to prep to loot, but you’re not complaining about that. Its the same concept, you have to spend time to get the resource. 

 

Some of your examples i do agree with however. The atrium should have a difficult to craft item that takes you there, because locking it behind a tentapiller serves no interesting gameplay purpose in my eyes, while also being unintuitive and nearly impossible to figure out for yourself. I dont have a problem because its random, i have a problem because theres enough stuff gatekeeping the atrium from actually doing anything before the player is ready without the weird tentapillar tunnel. 

Salt is bad RNG because cookie cutters are there, so it locks a major game quest and boss behind stupid rng.

I agree salt on it's own being rng is not an issue since it's just an upgrade

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