Getting new CPU - will this make a big enough difference for ONI?

[Gurgel]

On 4/17/2022 at 6:16 PM, Saturnus said:

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here but I've had my B450 and DDR4 3200 CL14 for years now so the only thing I need to invest in is the CPU itself. The vast majority of gamers with an AMD platform is in the same boat. Minimum investment, maximum gain, equalling or besting the best Intel has to offer at half the cost.

If you have an AMD platform currently, you'd really have to have been repeatedly lobotomised to even consider an Intel CPU.

Same here. If I get a 5800X3D, the only thing I will need is a BIOS update and the CPU. AMD platforms have a lot longer lifetime than Intel, were you basically throw everything away (MB, RAM), just to put in a new CPU. And yes, AMD will have a new Socket this or next year, but the old one is not immediately going away. And the new one will, again, get a much, much longer lifetime than whatever half-baked thing Intel cooks up.

Seriously, Intel is desperately trying to keep up a projection of superiority. These days, it is completely bogus. Even the "little-big" thing is bogus. Intel needs it because its CPUs suck way too much power at low load. AMD does not have that problem. But, of course, Intel sells this as the next big innovation, instead of the fix for their sub-standard low load power requirements it really is. 

Yes, I know. Intel _marketing_ is really good and they create a convincing illusion. Intel CPU engineering never has been very good though. Remember that Intel originally is a _memory_ company and did not even want to get into the CPU business and it still shows. AMD got into the x86 (now AMD64) business via signal processors.

[gabberworld]

6 hours ago, Gurgel said:

Same here. If I get a 5800X3D, the only thing I will need is a BIOS update and the CPU. AMD platforms have a lot longer lifetime than Intel, were you basically throw everything away (MB, RAM), just to put in a new CPU. And yes, AMD will have a new Socket this or next year, but the old one is not immediately going away. And the new one will, again, get a much, much longer lifetime than whatever half-baked thing Intel cooks up.

Seriously, Intel is desperately trying to keep up a projection of superiority. These days, it is completely bogus. Even the "little-big" thing is bogus. Intel needs it because its CPUs suck way too much power at low load. AMD does not have that problem. But, of course, Intel sells this as the next big innovation, instead of the fix for their sub-standard low load power requirements it really is. 

Yes, I know. Intel _marketing_ is really good and they create a convincing illusion. Intel CPU engineering never has been very good though. Remember that Intel originally is a _memory_ company and did not even want to get into the CPU business and it still shows. AMD got into the x86 (now AMD64) business via signal processors.

5800X3D is last cpu for that motherboard if info is correct, they to release the new cpu with new socket

if user not have the bios upgraded motherboard if he/she buy that, he may pay extra off that unless some nice guy does that for free

motherboard sellers not upgrade they bios at shops what are in warehouse already

[Saturnus]

50 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

5800X3D is last cpu for that motherboard if info is correct, they to release the new cpu with new socket

if user not have the bios upgraded motherboard if he/she buy that, he may pay extra off that unless some nice guy does that for free

motherboard sellers not upgrade they bios at shops what are in warehouse already

Most decent mid-range or higher AM4 MBs are upgradable with only a USB stick, no CPU is even needed.

All official resale channels for AMD AM4 MBs are required to upgrade the bios of your MB on request free of charge if you bought the MB at that reseller and the warranty period has not expired.

If the warranty period has expired and your MB cannot be upgraded by USB stick, AMD will ship you a loaner Athlon CPU to upgrade your bios. You have to pay for shipping and return it within 3 months.

I know it sounds weird right? It's a concept called "customer service". I know it's a novel concept for most people that have been flushing their money down the Intel drain for years.

[gabberworld]

10 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Most decent mid-range or higher AM4 MBs are upgradable with only a USB stick, no CPU is even needed.

All official resale channels for AMD AM4 MBs are required to upgrade the bios of your MB on request free of charge if you bought the MB at that reseller and the warranty period has not expired.

If the warranty period has expired and your MB cannot be upgraded by USB stick, AMD will ship you a loaner Athlon CPU to upgrade your bios. You have to pay for shipping and return it within 3 months.

yes ok. for that you still also need second pc, simple users who not know nothing about stuff like that they better buy new pc from shop. also they get warranty that it actually also work.

[Saturnus]

9 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

yes ok. for that you still also need second pc, simple users who not know nothing about stuff like that they better buy new pc from shop. also they get warranty that it actually also work.

What on Earth would you need a second PC for?

You only need to upgrade the bios if your MB is manufactured before February 2018. After that and any Zen CPU will automatically work. You might need to upgrade to get the best possible performance but that's an easy 4 step process that takes about 8 minutes.

The above mentioned solutions applies if your MB is manufactured before February 2018, and you don't currently have a compatible CPU.

[gabberworld]

43 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

What on Earth would you need a second PC for?

You only need to upgrade the bios if your MB is manufactured before February 2018. After that and any Zen CPU will automatically work. You might need to upgrade to get the best possible performance but that's an easy 4 step process that takes about 8 minutes.

The above mentioned solutions applies if your MB is manufactured before February 2018, and you don't currently have a compatible CPU.

im assuming there is people who have old motherboards right that they upgrade they cpu ? i not know what are in they machines

but i still not get why buy the Ryzen 7 5800X3D if that is last cpu for that generation if you already have kind off good pc.

5800X is not a bad cpu, you overclock that and you may get good results as well.

my gaming laptop was/is with ddr3 4gen cpu. now upgrade from that is huge jump. upgrade from one cpu to another cpu is very big question mark for me

also if you have old amd cpu what you plan upgrade, then you probably have there also old memory. newer memory's does have better latency

so your issue may lay also in there

[gabberworld]

that @Kerdeld user in our benchmark get better result with his 5600x when he overclock his pc than others with they 5800x so think off it little bit

he must be that he have there also good memory 

same goes for that static's what released in that youtubes, you may not get that good results with your old low cost memory

5800x

does have 1% better memory latency than 5600x

it does have also 4% better single core than 5600x

and so on.

 

 

[Gurgel]

8 hours ago, gabberworld said:

5800X3D is last cpu for that motherboard if info is correct, they to release the new cpu with new socket

if user not have the bios upgraded motherboard if he/she buy that, he may pay extra off that unless some nice guy does that for free

motherboard sellers not upgrade they bios at shops what are in warehouse already

Stop spreading FUD. AMD has, in the past, even sent out CPUs to users that needed to do BIOS upgrades on a new board. Also, many new boards (at least AMD ones) can do BIOS upgrades without CPU present. 

I really do not know what the issue is, but these persistent efforts to paint AMD as inferior/risky/bad deal are not credible. 

[gabberworld]

4 hours ago, Gurgel said:

Stop spreading FUD. AMD has, in the past, even sent out CPUs to users that needed to do BIOS upgrades on a new board. Also, many new boards (at least AMD ones) can do BIOS upgrades without CPU present. 

I really do not know what the issue is, but these persistent efforts to paint AMD as inferior/risky/bad deal are not credible. 

what bad deal? there is no bad deals if you upgrade the old cpu to new one

i just try explain that better wait the next generation amd cpu and buy that instead.

if you want that then go ahead man i not stop you at there.

--

there are now 30 users statistic report, and there typed that

Ryzen 7 5800X3D

does have 11% better memory latency than 5800x

but

5800x

does have 5% better single core than  Ryzen 7 5800X3D,  if OC then average difference 8%

does have 5% better two core than  Ryzen 7 5800X3D,  if OC then average difference 6%

does have 3% better 4 core than  Ryzen 7 5800X3D,  if OC then average difference 4%

in general

Ryzen 7 5800X3D is 3% better than 5800x but i think if you overclock your 5800x then there no difference at all

 

also allot good results for Ryzen 7 5800X3D comes because off the memory

Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3600 C18

AND THE

Corsair  DOMINATOR® PLATINUM 3600 C14

now if you to have some unknown cheap one. your results may not hit that good. just saying

3600 c14 what is best at the ddr4 atm may hit prices 300-650 eurs

there is also CL14 4000 MHz but 16 Gib only

--

there is also very good memory's also for DDR3 like

G.SKILL TridentX F3-2400C10Q-32GTX DDR3 (RAM) 32 GB CL10 2400 MHz

but not every motherboard supports them. if you had or have still ddr3 , you could squeeze maximum out at there as well

 

 

[Saturnus]

5 hours ago, gabberworld said:

what bad deal? there is no bad deals if you upgrade the old cpu to new one

i just try explain that better wait the next generation amd cpu and buy that instead.

if you want that then go ahead man i not stop you at there.

--

there are now 30 users statistic report, and there typed that

Ryzen 7 5800X3D

does have 11% better memory latency than 5800x

but

5800x

does have 5% better single core than  Ryzen 7 5800X3D,  if OC then average difference 8%

does have 5% better two core than  Ryzen 7 5800X3D,  if OC then average difference 6%

does have 3% better 4 core than  Ryzen 7 5800X3D,  if OC then average difference 4%

in general

Ryzen 7 5800X3D is 3% better than 5800x but i think if you overclock your 5800x then there no difference at all

 

also allot good results for Ryzen 7 5800X3D comes because off the memory

Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3600 C18

AND THE

Corsair  DOMINATOR® PLATINUM 3600 C14

now if you to have some unknown cheap one. your results may not hit that good. just saying

3600 c14 what is best at the ddr4 atm may hit prices 300-650 eurs

there is also CL14 4000 MHz but 16 Gib only

--

there is also very good memory's also for DDR3 like

G.SKILL TridentX F3-2400C10Q-32GTX DDR3 (RAM) 32 GB CL10 2400 MHz

but not every motherboard supports them. if you had or have still ddr3 , you could squeeze maximum out at there as well

Everything is this post is blatant unsubstantiated lies. Please provide a shred of evidence for your lies.

[gabberworld]

26 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

Everything is this post is blatant unsubstantiated lies. Please provide a shred of evidence for your lies.

https://www.userbenchmark.com/

[Saturnus]

4 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

https://www.userbenchmark.com/

EPIC OWN GOAL!!!!!

Thanks for the laugh. Now go run along and play with kids your own age instead of annoying us adults.

[gabberworld]

17 minutes ago, Saturnus said:

EPIC OWN GOAL!!!!!

Thanks for the laugh. Now go run along and play with kids your own age instead of annoying us adults.

if i lie then they lie, if they lie then also https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

lies as well, as in general both pages usually shows same results

as PassMark is not free you get at userbenchmark results sooner

[Saturnus]

28 minutes ago, gabberworld said:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net

Is funded 100% by Intel.

CPUbenchmark and Passmark even used to share business address with the Intel Santa Clara Head Quarter.
They've now moved to different countries to obscure that all their employees are directly on the Intel salary.

Anyone that has been interested in PC hardware for more than a decade would know this.

[gabberworld]

3 hours ago, Saturnus said:

Is funded 100% by Intel.

CPUbenchmark and Passmark even used to share business address with the Intel Santa Clara Head Quarter.
They've now moved to different countries to obscure that all their employees are directly on the Intel salary.

even if they funded 100% by intel they not manipulate the data, amd is been top in that page before also apple was top at there. and im 99% sure amd will be top again with they next gen AMD cpu, the results what they show in they AMD presentation video is not bad against intel 13

that 1% is that intel may change cpu before launch because they know what amd planning

in multi-core the AMD still leads with huge advantage, there is no competition for that

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/multi_cpu.html

 

[babba]

If we are lucky then Nvidia will release a powerful CPU someday for gamers - There is rumors about it, as CPU/GPU producers try to offer both things. Perhaps Intel someday manages to launch a competitive GPU, time will tell if will be great or a flop.

The more competition, the better

It is also good that Apple and AMD release great computing products and push the market in to real competition.

[BT_20]

This thread seems suspiciously similar to Xbox vs PlayStation type talk

[gabberworld]

3 hours ago, babba said:

If we are lucky then Nvidia will release a powerful CPU someday for gamers - There is rumors about it, as CPU/GPU producers try to offer both things. Perhaps Intel someday manages to launch a competitive GPU, time will tell if will be great or a flop.

The more competition, the better

It is also good that Apple and AMD release great computing products and push the market in to real competition.

if we lucky then one day gpu may start read directly from hdd instead off memory , when that happens, then allot may change. they been testing this long time now tho at windows and like i understand xbox does that

1 hour ago, BT_20 said:

This thread seems suspiciously similar to Xbox vs PlayStation type talk

amd is PlayStation and Xbox is intel

[gabberworld]

rizen 5800x3d is good yes, but its not the fastest gaming cpu in world like amd promo that, and i hate this kind off false promos

sad part is that everyone tests the 3d games. but oni in general is only 2d game

[BT_20]

I’m going to build my first pc in a month or so and I’m probably going to go with a Ryzen7 5800x since it’s $100 cheaper than the 3D and it can be overclocked.

[ddoc]

you might want to hold out just that little bit longer there will be new AMD and Intel CPU/GPU this year and new GPU's from nividia also 

[Saturnus]

20 hours ago, BT_20 said:

I’m going to build my first pc in a month or so and I’m probably going to go with a Ryzen7 5800x since it’s $100 cheaper than the 3D and it can be overclocked.

If it's for gaming then save another $150 and get the 5600 (non-X) model ($199 current US price). The difference is minimal, and don't be fooled by Ryzen being overclockable, it means next to nothing in actual gaming performance. Just leave it up to the automatic built-in PBO 2 and you get the best performance with the lowest power consumption 98% of time. At best I see 2-3% gain from OC'ing. It's in memory tunings you see the big differences in gaming performance for Ryzen CPUs. I see 10%-15% better performance by optimising memory timings and subtimings. And it's not about raw clockspeed either. Often lower clocked memory performs better if the timings and subtimings can be tweaked instead.

However, testing on reputable tech sites shows that the 5800X3D is around 12% faster than a heavily overclocked 5800X in gaming on average. In single core heavy sim games like ONI the 5800X3D is 28% faster than a heavily overclocked 5800X on average. So if you are after the ultimate gaming CPU then at the moment the 5800X3D is it.

[melquiades]

4 hours ago, Saturnus said:

In single core heavy sim games like ONI the 5800X3D is 28% faster than a heavily overclocked 5800X on average.

Is it your own testing or somebody actually uses ONI to benchmark? (i would love to see an ONI bench).

[Saturnus]

19 minutes ago, melquiades said:

Is it your own testing or somebody actually uses ONI to benchmark? (i would love to see an ONI bench).

Not yet sadly but Cities: Skylines, Factorio, and Age of Empires 4 have all been tested. All 3 games runs about 80-85% on a single core with minor utilisation of up to 3 more cores, nothing beyond that. All 3 games heavily favours large cache sizes and fast memory but in particular the former. So they all match the same criteria as ONI.

[cpy]

Userbenchmark? More like loserbenchmark! I wouldn't trust a single number from those intel shills.