Getting new CPU - will this make a big enough difference for ONI?

[Gurgel]

FPS benchmarks only report averages not jitter. 40 FPS with a lot of jitter can look and feel worse than 10 FPS without jitter. Well, maybe we will eventually get better benchmarks that do represent the user experience, but we do not have them now.

[gabberworld]

7 hours ago, Gurgel said:

FPS benchmarks only report averages not jitter. 40 FPS with a lot of jitter can look and feel worse than 10 FPS without jitter. Well, maybe we will eventually get better benchmarks that do represent the user experience, but we do not have them now.

as our benchmark was/is a time based not a fps based, any anomaly could reduce the result soo i would say that amd does have jitter aswell

[gabberworld]

so answer is yes for you title,  by get a new CPU then it does make big difference as you personally to have 7 year difference then you will notice that. users who does have already like rizen 5800x may not notice much but with numbers only

there is also one catch, if you to like play game 100 cycles and then start again, you to will notice nothing as this game in general can work with very low fps

there is also results from two different benchmark webpages and results both look kind off same

note: AMD does have lower memory latency but as if single core is not fast en-oh it cant read that fast anyway . but because off that it will win at multi core apps

[gabberworld]

by the way if you plan run with intel i5-12600k the 800 dupes then you may also think buy yourself over 32GB memory

LOL

maybe helps also if increase virtual memory. not tested yet

[gabberworld]

dupe memory test at i9-12900k

well well, results shows that for 1000 dupes. you to need more than 64GB memory, note be careful by 64 gb and the 12 gen cpu. motherboards may not support 4 dimms yet

so yeah also if you go for that direction, you too need also fast M2. SSD

as virtual memory is stored inside SSD

[Gurgel]

6 hours ago, gabberworld said:

as our benchmark was/is a time based not a fps based, any anomaly could reduce the result soo i would say that amd does have jitter aswell

Everything has jitter. The question is how much. Intel seems to have a lot and it really degrades the experience. 

 

[Ellilea]

*reading all the posts, but have nothing to contribute so sticking to observing, thanks for all input*

[gabberworld]

40 minutes ago, Ellilea said:

*reading all the posts, but have nothing to contribute so sticking to observing, thanks for all input*

you could wait end off year when Intel releases the 13 series. also can be that amd will bring his new cpus to market what supports ddr5

but in end whatever you choose it will be better than i5-4670 as memory speed does matter for this game and DDR3 what you have cant compare with DDR4 and now as new DDR5

 

[gabberworld]

when you run out off memory then something like this start happen

it will start use hdd/ssd for read data. now if you to still have regular hdd then it drags game performance down allot

you can also see  in this image that my pagefile.sys is not stored at main ssd. reason for that is simple because main ssd does other windows stuff during game play. soo it means my pagefile.sys is not stressed by other pc stuff as its idle most off time

[cOnSdOnG]

The i5-12600K (and i5-12400) is good for this game. Also, you're not going to be having 1000 dupes so 32 GB of RAM is unnecessary. In addition, an 8-core CPU won't magically increase performance as this game's performance doesn't increase that much when adding more than 4 cores (8 threads). Therefore, the i3-12100f is really good as it is an affordable and powerful 4 core 8 thread CPU. Also, since you have no plans on using your computer for production workloads (Blender, Photoshop, Video Editing, Etc) having more cores and threads is unnecessary. Furthermore, an i5 now is like an i7 back in 2017-2018 so avoid looking at CPUs like their a letter and a number—its just marketing—instead, compare them based on performance and price. Furthermore, times have changed and so AMD isn't the budget king anymore, so processors like the 5600 (released recently), 5600X (which is an absolute scam now since it is literally a 5600 for ~30+ USD more) and 5500 (which is slaughtered by the i3-12100f in terms of price-to-performance for gaming workloads) are not worth it.

5500 vs i3-12100f https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPPeSNV9Hog

5600 vs 5600x vs i5-12400 (which is also pretty good) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifI9nnmW5sg

i5-12400 vs Then latest AMD CPUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P_AGv-DJbU

 

[Gurgel]

Methinks some people are trying too hard...

[gabberworld]

On 4/9/2022 at 5:56 AM, cOnSdOnG said:

Furthermore, an i5 now is like an i7 back in 2017-2018

 

that,s the one reason why i tell wait for 13 series because they are planning add more cores at there as well. i not know how much to thy add for the i5 but they will add to the i9

also you are wrong i3-12 is currently better than any i7 at year 2017

even tho they look similar for example  i7-7700K vs i3-12100F

but as they to increase the read/write memory speed,  i7-7700K cant beat that

On 4/9/2022 at 5:56 AM, cOnSdOnG said:

The i5-12600K (and i5-12400) is good for this game. Also, you're not going to be having 1000 dupes so 32 GB of RAM is unnecessary. In addition

 

if you have already very good cpu then game performance is not  high problem at game begging, that comes also this thing that you can play longer what leads to also higher memory usage

[Ellilea]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:56 AM, cOnSdOnG said:

The i5-12600K (and i5-12400) is good for this game. Also, you're not going to be having 1000 dupes so 32 GB of RAM is unnecessary. In addition, an 8-core CPU won't magically increase performance as this game's performance doesn't increase that much when adding more than 4 cores (8 threads). Therefore, the i3-12100f is really good as it is an affordable and powerful 4 core 8 thread CPU. Also, since you have no plans on using your computer for production workloads (Blender, Photoshop, Video Editing, Etc) having more cores and threads is unnecessary. Furthermore, an i5 now is like an i7 back in 2017-2018 so avoid looking at CPUs like their a letter and a number—its just marketing—instead, compare them based on performance and price. Furthermore, times have changed and so AMD isn't the budget king anymore, so processors like the 5600 (released recently), 5600X (which is an absolute scam now since it is literally a 5600 for ~30+ USD more) and 5500 (which is slaughtered by the i3-12100f in terms of price-to-performance for gaming workloads) are not worth it.

5500 vs i3-12100f https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPPeSNV9Hog

5600 vs 5600x vs i5-12400 (which is also pretty good) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifI9nnmW5sg

i5-12400 vs Then latest AMD CPUs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P_AGv-DJbU

 

I do some Photoshop 2D art, so i3 is not something I'm even considering. I don't do complex 3D rendering though, which is why I think i5 should be sufficient for my needs?

And yes indeed I do not play to play with 1000 dupes. 20 would do.

  

On 4/9/2022 at 5:46 AM, Gurgel said:

Methinks some people are trying too hard...

What do you mean?

  

On 4/9/2022 at 5:50 AM, gabberworld said:

that,s the one reason why i tell wait for 13 series because they are planning add more cores at there as well. i not know how much to thy add for the i5 but they will add to the i9

 

They're releasing new models every year, I'd be waiting till kingdom come if I always waited for the next one :P

 

[gabberworld]

8 minutes ago, Ellilea said:

And yes indeed I do not play to play with 1000 dupes. 20 would do.

 

1000 dupes was a stress test for see if it can handle that, as dupes are the biggest who slows down the fps its easy test with them

i not sure why you to need other users option tho as you tell already that budget is limited   all the 12 series are good in my view compared the older versions because they made higher performance jump than previous years

[Gurgel]

23 hours ago, Ellilea said:

What do you mean?

Well, the Intel fans that cannot even conceive that FPS is not everything. I remember a time this discussion flared up that many felt Intel was choppy and did not giver them a smooth gaming experience below 40 FPS. My personal experience (and that of some other AMD users) is that 20 FPS gives a smooth ONI experience on AMD CPUs, observed with an old FX8350 and a newer 3700X. Parts of the streaming community found the same: You need a separate streaming box with Intel because of choppiness, while with AMD you can stream smoothly from the same box. The reason is simply that AMD has a much better memory interface and cache architecture and that results in much lower jitter on task-switching and hence a far smoother experience. 

Yet, this gets ignored, because surely Intel must be king. Right? Wrong. Intel has sacrificed everything they could to raw CPU power, including good real-time performance. They sell on FPS and most of their customers do not realize they get ripped off.

[ddoc]

wonder how the new AMD 5800x3d with the extra cache will do for ONI even a comparison of an 5800x vs 5800x3d would be nice 

[Gurgel]

11 hours ago, ddoc said:

wonder how the new AMD 5800x3d with the extra cache will do for ONI even a comparison of an 5800x vs 5800x3d would be nice 

That is a _very_ interesting question, agreed. Personally, I have no idea, but at least AMD thinks that fast, large L3 cache makes a lot of difference. At least in theory, this may be even better for applications that use few CPUs, like ONI. Or not. 

[gabberworld]

there was some leak that x3d have kind off low memory latency, it that's true then we may see that amd jumps over intel

but don't trust that info yet as this is from 1 user only

there also thing, not know how low latency memory they self used. you may not get that good results with average memory

i want to remember tho that 13 series intel will increasing his memory speed as well

[babba]

Stacked rockets is buggy !

I solved the issues

[gabberworld]

they was using the RTX 3080 Ti, so i would not trust the results what posted too much in online

my RTX 3070 Ti was at already 100% so i not even know the real results from cpu yet in this game

i to have ddr5 memory tho while they used the ddr4

source link for they results

https://xanxogaming.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-5800x3d-review-the-last-gaming-gift-for-am4/

 

 

[Ellilea]

21 hours ago, Gurgel said:

Well, the Intel fans that cannot even conceive that FPS is not everything. I remember a time this discussion flared up that many felt Intel was choppy and did not giver them a smooth gaming experience below 40 FPS. My personal experience (and that of some other AMD users) is that 20 FPS gives a smooth ONI experience on AMD CPUs, observed with an old FX8350 and a newer 3700X. Parts of the streaming community found the same: You need a separate streaming box with Intel because of choppiness, while with AMD you can stream smoothly from the same box. The reason is simply that AMD has a much better memory interface and cache architecture and that results in much lower jitter on task-switching and hence a far smoother experience. 

Yet, this gets ignored, because surely Intel must be king. Right? Wrong. Intel has sacrificed everything they could to raw CPU power, including good real-time performance. They sell on FPS and most of their customers do not realize they get ripped off.

Is that still the case with the new Intel processors? I've heard that a few years back, but they've released new systems since. Wonder if the difference persists or not.

[gabberworld]

1 hour ago, Ellilea said:

Is that still the case with the new Intel processors? I've heard that a few years back, but they've released new systems since. Wonder if the difference persists or not.

benchmarks show yes that amd does have lower memory latency. and if its true then AMD 5800x3d have 19% lower latency than intel 12 series cpus.

but not forget that our ONI benchmark shows also that it docent matter much because for example ryzen 9 5950x who have 6% lower memory latency is still behind at intel 12.

 

 

 

[Gurgel]

2 hours ago, Ellilea said:

Is that still the case with the new Intel processors? I've heard that a few years back, but they've released new systems since. Wonder if the difference persists or not.

I expect it is. Intel has not really done a real new design in quite a while. They are just tweaking the existing ones. 

I do not have solid data though, but I am very satisfied with my AMD systems, in particular the 3700X gaming system. My experience is that ONI starts feeling choppy and jerky only around, say, 16 - 18 FPS on it and it was pretty much the same on my old FX8350 gaming system.

Can anybody with a new Intel system comment on this range, say ONI at 20 FPS and below on Intel? Or at which minimum FPS it starts to feel smooth with current Intel? The usual benchmarks do not really tell the full story for something like this.

[gabberworld]

14 hours ago, Gurgel said:

I expect it is. Intel has not really done a real new design in quite a while. They are just tweaking the existing ones. 

I do not have solid data though, but I am very satisfied with my AMD systems, in particular the 3700X gaming system. My experience is that ONI starts feeling choppy and jerky only around, say, 16 - 18 FPS on it and it was pretty much the same on my old FX8350 gaming system.

Can anybody with a new Intel system comment on this range, say ONI at 20 FPS and below on Intel? Or at which minimum FPS it starts to feel smooth with current Intel? The usual benchmarks do not really tell the full story for something like this.

in my 4 generation intel cpu laptop i can play also with 10 fps kind off smooth, i to have at there 32 gib ram, ssd and separate inbuild video-card 970m for gaming, one what is slowing down is real time tho, that is shown in also our oni benchmark that cpus start slow down when they hit they limits.

you tell you have 3700X, that can't compare with ddr3 in 4 generator cpus, because that is like almost 2x faster than 4 gen intel.

also benchmark shows that 3700X can hit 135 sec with proper ram, in my view personally  you don't need anytime soon the new pc because i was able play with my poor 4 gen cpu the Tomb raider, Final Fantasy 7 remaster, Red Dead 2 kind off ok as well.

also i want talk the i3-12 the ultimate low cost cpu. if you currently still have 4 gen cpu, then performance jump will be huge even if you upgrade your pc for that

i3-12100F what cost around 110 eurs does have 4 cores and 8 threads,

i5-4670 does have 4 cores and 4 threads,

i7-7700k does have 4 cores and 8 threads, by core look it look same with i3-12100F

but because intel in general increased the speed at memory

then i7-7700k and the i5-4670 can't beat that low cost i3-12100F cpu.

same goes for the newly released AMD 5800x3d because they increase the memory speed as well at there.

AMD 5800x3d does not support dd5. so that cpu is useful mostly for upgrade the current amd cpu. but build that as new pc is like meh.

also AMD 5800x3d not support officially overclock because they hit already the voltage limits. there is possible override like some say but that may also burn your cpu down. so in general you get what you see

because AMD does have better memory Latency they don't need also increase the GHZ same high as intel have but there comes a day when AMD need todo that as intel is pushing up as well in both

---

so now comes also thing why not just buy the 3700X at year 2022

answer is simple its not worth  the money what they asking for that even tho it looks like good cpu.

intel i3-12100F can hit the 106 sec while 3700X can hit the 135 sec

that is like almost 30 sec performance difference at half ONI game cycle, full cycle difference is like near 1min

 

 

 

 

 

[blakemw]

I've been inspired by this thread to upgrade to a i5-12400F setup from my venerable i5-4460 (2014) setup. I didn't have the foresight to benchmark ONI before upgrading, but basically a save which was chugging is now 60 fps butter smooth.