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Duck986

Do you like the Wolfgang rework rework?

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Duck986    2869

Yep, the beta is out. I didn't play it yet, but I saw the latest OrangE's video and I'm pretty satisfied with it - you can go from 0 to 100 of Mightiness with Gembell in 21 second (It's 5 Mightiness per lift!!! It was 1.875 before!!!), Mightiness can be maintained during "plain work" (tree chopping, rock smashing, etc), while fighting (deppends on target's max HP), and also Mightiness loss when getting hit encourages you to kite bosses or kill them with minimum amount of damage.

Though, according to the info I got from @grumm9690 the mightiness damage loss 13 points per 100 damage and this can't be blocked by armor.

What do you think about that?

P.S.: What are the damage and durability loss of dumbbells per melee hit? I don't know this stats but I want to figure out if it's worth it.

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Theukon-dos    4099

I think the 13 mightiness lost/hit is a bit excessive, sense boss fights can easily make you loose mightyness in 2-3 hits. This also kind of screws Wolf over in some scenarios, sense the loose/gain mighty animation can end up stunning you in battle.

 

I'm also not sure that the Gem Bell was buffed enough. Like, 0-100 mightness in 21 seconds is good, except now it costs Thulecite and the Marbel can do the exact same thing in ~24 seconds. It's not a significant improvement in speed, damage, or durability. Atleast not in any way I've seen.

 

Other than that though, I do believe that this solved the biggest issues in the Wolfgang rework, so only some minor tweaking should be needed from here.

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Duck986    2869
2 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

I'm also not sure that the Gem Bell was buffed enough. Like, 0-100 mightness in 21 seconds is good, except now it costs Thulecite and the Marbel can do the exact same thing in ~24 seconds. It's not a significant improvement in speed, damage, or durability. Atleast not in any way I've seen. 

But maybe it has higher melee damage than marble one?

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ArubaroBeefalo    18459

gem bell now fills the bar really quick (like 15 points every second and half, 3 swings) and the mechanic of gaining points while hitting (only 1 point every 2 hits against AG in my experience) or working solves the tempo broke of the previous version. Losing mightiness when being hit is really cool and i hope it stays but i think that loses too much, i couldnt test much because of the speed bug so take it with a grain of salt, few hits and you lose half bar which goes agaisnt the concept of not using dumbbells as often and reduce the overal dps because you need to stop to bumb if you got hit. Some number ajusts and might become a really fun character

39 minutes ago, Duck986 said:

Though, according to the info I got from @grumm9690 the mightiness damage loss 13 points per 100 damage and this can't be blocked by armor

i think is excessive but cool feature

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MikoFanboy    1878

"so you like to face tank the boss? say bye bye to that because they will destroy your mighty bar in a blink of an eye"

- Also very disappointed when you stil can't walk while using the bell

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Duck986    2869
50 minutes ago, MikoFanboy said:

Also very disappointed when you stil can't walk while using the bell

Though if you will walk with a dumbbell, your Mightiness won't drop iirc

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mr. brj    498

I like it a lot. This version is definitely much, much more interesting than the initial rework. I will still miss the mechanics of the original Wolfgang for sure, but at least now I know that my boi is in a good place. Plus this new Wolfgang is quite enjoyable to play as.

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ALCRD    2705

Didn't like him before. Still don't like him after the reworks.

Tho that losing mightiness when hit based on dmg recieved (not negated by armor) is pretty big penalty that even a non Wolfgang main like me noticed problems with right away.

If i wanted to focus more on kiting than tanking while also doing a lot of damage.

I'd play Wanda instead Wolfgang.

That penalty is way too much even after the mightiness gain buffs and can get you potentially "stunlocked" during a boss fight since you also gain mightiness when hitting an enemy.

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elthodoido    48

I'm liking it. Though i'm feeling that the Mighty meter now fluctuates too fast.

I think dumbbells and gym gaining a big amount of mighty is justified.

However the mighty gained from tasks seems a bit too much, the same (or even more) for the damage Mighty gain/loss, which can cause you going back and forth from Normal/Mighty and triggering the animation a lot.

For me it feels like these values (combat/actions) should be tuned down to a 1/4 or something.

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sudoku    2166
2 minutes ago, elthodoido said:

For me it feels like these values (combat/actions) should be tuned down to a 1/4 or something.

No thanks, being rewarded for doing in game actions is a thousand percent better than the artificialness of standing in the gym or lifting weights.

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elthodoido    48
1 hour ago, sudoku said:

No thanks, being rewarded for doing in game actions is a thousand percent better than the artificalness of standing in the gym or ligting weights.

I understand you, and i agree.
However to me is even worse to have the possibility of transform animation (stun) happening a lot during a fight, this could screw it up.
Imagine you could: Hit some times > Mighty > Transf. animation > Get Hit easily because of the stun > Normal > and so on.
Maybe the Mighty gain from combat should be reduced to attacking with Dumbbells only and for it remove the Mighty loss from the damage.
 

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sudoku    2166
2 minutes ago, elthodoido said:

I understand you, and i agree.
However to me is even worse to have the possibility of transform animation (stun) happening a lot during a fight, this could screw it up.
Imagine you could: Hit some times (Mighty) > Transf. animation > Get Hit easily because of the stun (Normal) > and so on.
Maybe the Mighty gain from combat should be reduced to attacking with Dumbbells only and for it remove the Mighty loss from the damage.
 

Someone suggested a solution to fix the issue a lot better though. If the numbers were reduced it just makes the gym and dumbell lifting more mandatory which was one of the problems with the orginal rework.

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walkow    0

In my opinion, Wolfgang should has nothing to do with hunger. The exercise cost of weakness and strength should be a little higher. The strength value in ordinary state should be the easiest to maintain. After all, most of the time is not fighting. Otherwise, the player is weak all the time, or he is strong through high satiety. I will eat when my satiety trend to empty. The strength value is brushed off and I feel very tired.:wolfgangstache:

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hhh2    1112

I still forever will miss old wolfgang but this is okay!! It makes wolfgang's gameplay much faster, more reministant of eating 2 meaty stew and becoming mighty. I think that the losing mightniness on hit is very intresting, but is a little too punishing, I think it can work after moving some numbers around. Kinda weird how getting hit makes his muscles shink, shadow muscles must be very fragile. Overall, I think wolfgang is in a much better place and i can see myself playing him again

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dubious little    250

Remove the transition animations since they don't really fit the playstyle of the character anymore since you'll be fluctuating between forms a lot. I think we'd be good then. Also let it be effected by armour or make the penalty not as bad.

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ShadowDuelist    10524

He seems much much better now.

Like others said before, I'd lower the mightiness lost penalty per hit a tiny bit, but the penalty it's overall fitting since now you keep recovering mightiness as you fight , which can be forgiving on getting hit a few times (although currently its quite punishing due to the big numbers lost, but that's just a small tweak required there)
Also recovering mightiness when working, kind of makes you want to keep an active playstyle as Wolf: chopping and mining whenever possible. A very smart turn on design, honestly, makes the Wolfgang player think a bit more like Wolfgang "Work hard, fight hard, see benefits"

1 hour ago, Soumyadip543 said:

So whats the point of the Gym anymore?

Since the Gembells give you so much mightyness.

Fast and almost free 100 mightiness while you stay at a base, or a place you go to very often and where you do not spend time doing things that gain mightiness (EG: decorating, crafting, collecting grass and twigs, etc), saving the dumbells resources for when you are doing nomadic stuff.
For everything else you use "marbell" or "gembell" which NOW works great while you are around, even though they consume resources. On a multiplayer setting, where Wandas or Wormwoods may also use purple gems often, the marble dumbell was a great addition as a second best dumbell in case the team is gem starved.

Worth mentioning that Wimpy wolf consumes less food now, so staying wimpy can be very useful if you don't plan to do physical work or fight for a while. Wimpy wolf, with belt of hunger and funcap can exist without eating for a long time.

9.5 out of 10 on these changes.

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Toros    2996

I like the vast majority of the changes, but don’t like the mightiness loss on hit.

We already have Wanda, Walter and Wigfrid to represent Melee kiting, ranged kiting, and tanking respectively.

Mightiness loss on hit makes no sense (especially ignoring armor mitigation) and forces Wolfgang into a kiting strategy or to fight with dumbbells to not get pummeled into wimpiness.

Wolfgang was a combat generalist, and now his combat style has a lot in common with Wanda but she does it better.

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ShadowDuelist    10524
2 minutes ago, Toros said:

I like the vast majority of the changes, but don’t like the mightiness loss on hit.

We already have Wanda, Walter and Wigfrid to represent Melee kiting, ranged kiting, and tanking respectively.

Mightiness loss on hit makes no sense (especially ignoring armor mitigation) and forces Wolfgang into a kiting strategy or to fight with dumbbells to not get pummeled into wimpiness.

Wolfgang was a combat generalist, and now his combat style has a lot in common with Wanda but she does it better.

I don't think the point of this penalty is to never get hit like Wanda or Walter, but instead force the Wolfgang player to at least not outright tank everything with marble suit.
You do recover a lot of mightiness when fighting even if you get hit, although its true that the amount of mightiness lost as is now is way too much, but if they lower that a bit, it will make sense IMO.

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ArubaroBeefalo    18459
11 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I don't think the point of this penalty is to never get hit like Wanda or Walter, but instead force the Wolfgang player to at least not outright tank everything with marble suit.
You do recover a lot of mightiness when fighting even if you get hit, although its true that the amount of mightiness lost as is now is way too much, but if they lower that a bit, it will make sense IMO.

and he kinda needs a mechanic to make him interesting instead of just being better at fighting, mining, sealing, etc with little cost. And isnt a downside for the sake of adding a downside but an engaging one

IMO

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Echsrick    3511

maybe he sould not lose 100% mighty when he has armor on, maybe only like 50% lose of mighty? seems more reasonable and propably you wont get that animation on and off whit hitting that transformation point

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Toros    2996
45 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

I don't think the point of this penalty is to never get hit like Wanda or Walter, but instead force the Wolfgang player to at least not outright tank everything with marble suit.
You do recover a lot of mightiness when fighting even if you get hit, although its true that the amount of mightiness lost as is now is way too much, but if they lower that a bit, it will make sense IMO.

You still can tank things, but you need to use a dumbbell to do it at which point you’ve basically given up Wolf’s combat perk which is damage.

He’s a lot less consistent now in combat than he’s ever been, and from a mechanical perspective I get it, and without Wanda existing as the best kite character there’d be an open niche for the classic “go fast and hit hard wolfgang” 

But now things that do difficult to avoid damage have the potential to strip away all of Wolf’s perks and make him a whole lot less reliable than either wanda or wigfrid.

His out of combat utility being improved doesn’t make his current state not a (significantly more fun) mechanical nerf.

To be clear, I much prefer post-refresh Wolf, but more carrying speed, rowing speed, and easier mightiness gain doesn’t outweigh his much reduced ability to tank.

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ArubaroBeefalo    18459

just to point, if you melee atack with a dumbbell the metter raise quickly so i guess isnt that bad just that we didndt notice before?

i tried tanking beequeen iwth gembell and works perfectly

 

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Toros    2996
7 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

just to point, if you melee atack with a dumbbell the metter raise quickly so i guess isnt that bad just that we didndt notice before?

i tried tanking beequeen iwth gembell and works perfectly

 

You weren’t able to melee attack with a dumbell while mighty before.

It definitely works, and I could learn to live with it, but it still makes no sense.

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Cannoli    150

If you like kill Bees, Frogs, Black Spiders, Hounds, Treeguards then ok. New Wolf is a nice shaved Wilson with sanity issues.

If you like kill Bosses, than no. Wolf is just a Wes 2.0 with a fake perk: mightiness.

The problem: people talking about a character they didn't play, just read "bullet points".

Please, first try solo kill Dragonfly, Bee Queen, Ancient Fuelweaver, Celestial Champion, Twins of Terror, AFTER THAT, and just AFTER THAT, come back and answer this thread.

For those who like talk about "skill", please post a video killing Shadow Bosses with New Wolf without loose mightiness. I'll buy you a new car.

Klei, please: Don't Kill Wolfgang, that change don't make any sense.

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