Poll on Dont Starve/DST being a RogueLite.

[Mike23Ua 14491]

It’s a simple poll with simple voting options because sometimes people buy video games and have no actual idea what type of game they had purchased.. and then they get upset wanting that game changed into a Genre it wasn’t ever intended to be in the first place..

I lived long enough to see Resident Evil go from Puzzle Survival Horror to full on Action game with quick time events and then eventually back to its roots of Puzzle survival horror decades later… I DOUBT I have several decades left in me to see the Dont Starve franchise repeat the same mistakes.

To give examples of RogueLite games: Spelunky, Spelunky 2, Slay the Spire, Enter the Gungeon, Don’t Starve.

Games that intentionally stack the odds against you and sometimes, not even all the skill in the world is going to save you, sometimes it also requires a bit of pure blind luck.

 

[Well-met 7067]

DST has no noticeable RNG that can fail an experienced attempt that I can think of and should remain so.

[Echsrick 3460]

i think its more a rougeLIKE and not a lite, since you dont get to keep anything but your expiernce, thats a difference, like you start from 0, while lite is that you start whit something for the next run, be it armor or more potions or what ever

[LinknAllie 1535]

I bought the game for the art style and the fact it was a "survival game"

[GenomeSquirrel 1367]

I bought it hoping it was a zeldaish game

I’ve grown to consider it a farming game with fashion.

that said, it has the same type of learning experience I associate with rogues

[DrMcGillacactus 1017]

I'm nestled in a corner where I dislike the use of the term "RogueLite" in pretty much any form.
I am a massive roguelike fan, and at first I understood why some games wouldn't be considered by many to be roguelikes and thus started using the different term to clarify that it strays quite a distance from the typical formula, but to me it just doesn't fit any more.

The title of the genre was named after the game "rogue", meaning games similar enough were called Roguelikes, makes sense, but nowadays if you're being as strict as the Berlin Interpretation (which I hate), practically none of the roguelikes today would actually be classified as roguelikes and instead "RogueLites". It makes me have to think about how a lot of my favorite games of my favorite genre aren't actually in the genre.
Don't Starve is a randomly generated game with perma-death, so I classify it as a roguelike. 

[Woloa 43]

I would not classify any game as a 'rougelite' as it is a reductive term being used primarily to discourage innovation with a genre that gets real boring real fast when played pure.

Honestly, a more useful discussion would be if the entire survival genre should be classified as a subgenre of roguelikes, but I'm not experienced enough in the space of survival games to make a big post on such a topic.

[CaptainChaotica 6561]

I can't really answer this poll, because of the way it is worded.  "Do you think DS AND DST are a roguelite or not?"  But my answer to that is different for the two games!

DS:  RogueLIKE

DST:  RogueLITE.

Spoiler

(although I also dislike that term; it has that same feel of "Ooh, what YOU like is too casual and not hardcore and badass enough, what are you, a wimp?!" feel to it that SO MUCH gamer gatekeeping has, to me.  Also just being _female_ and playing games subjects you to SO FRIGGIN' MUCH gatekeeping I might be a little over-sensitive to that in general.  I also dislike the phrase "save-scumming", for the same reason--it implies that anybody who reloads a save is literally scum!)

Anyway no, their difficulty level is not the same, therefore I can't answer the questions as-is.  Don't Starve first appealed to me because it seemed to be "a roguelike but you can at least make MENTAL progress", unlike the excercise in frustration that is, say, Nethack--where what each wand does, what each potion is, etc. randomises with every game so you can't even actually _learn_ to get ahead. (How people ever get ANYwhere in that game is beyond me.) 
But in DS, it has permadeath, but once you learn something you can take that knowledge with you into the next game and it DOES work.  THAT, is cool.  That's my sweet-spot of difficulty, I think.  "I died, but now I know I have to make a torch."  "I died, but now I know NOT to hit a spider while standing on the web."  "I died, but now I know to stay away from pink-butted beefalos." etc.  It showed me that roguelikes don't HAVE to be unending pointless yelling into the void; sometimes they can actually be _fun_.  I myself bought DS knowing full well what type of game it was; watching Let's Plays of it on YouTube is how I learned what the game was like.

DST, however, has rollback AND Endless Mode, and....no, that's just not the same difficulty level anymore.  Sure, you can just not _use_ rollbacks and never PLAY Endless, but that doesn't change the fact that those things being in the game massively impacts the overall feel of it.  I totally get why; it's a multiplayer game so they wanted more mass appeal.

But it DOES give the games a fundamental difference. (shrug)

Edit:  Also I don't think "uncompromising" and "rogueLITE" are terms that go together, either.

...Notorious

[Mike23Ua 14491]

14 minutes ago, Woloa said:

I would not classify any game as a 'rougelite' as it is a reductive term being used primarily to discourage innovation with a genre that gets real boring real fast when played pure.

Honestly, a more useful discussion would be if the entire survival genre should be classified as a subgenre of roguelikes, but I'm not experienced enough in the space of survival games to make a big post on such a topic.

Dude… the Xbox Gamepass app quite literally has a section specifically for games that qualify as RogueLite/like whatever..

Don’t Starve Together is not on the Gamepass, but if it was it would be in this category section of games.

That said: The Gamepass also classified Batman Arkham Knight as a Horror game somehow.. and there’s very few actual horror segments in Arkham Knight so..

[DrMcGillacactus 1017]

9 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Dude… the Xbox Gamepass app quite literally has a section specifically for games that qualify as RogueLite/like whatever..

 

 

All those games do fit the Roguelike/lite descriptions, I just disagree with the "lite" part.

They aren't saying Roguelites don't exist, just that they dislike the title

[Falkenpelz 3159]

I'd say both DS and DST are survival-sandbox games, with DST putting eveb stronger focus on the sandbox. The "Uncompromising" is a major advertising point, but does only really affect new players who don't know the game yet most of the time. The only luck- or RNG-based factors are worldgen, your own decision on exploration and, in a limited range, stuff like mob spawntime, attackspeed (which doesn't really matter) and some drops. Most of the game is planning ahead for incoming threats and gaining very detailed and complex knowledge of the game mechanics, which is one thing I love this game for.

[slendyproject 52]

3 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

To give examples of RogueLite games: Spelunky, Spelunky 2, Slay the Spire, Enter the Gungeon, Don’t Starve.

Games that intentionally stack the odds against you and sometimes, not even all the skill in the world is going to save you, sometimes it also requires a bit of pure blind luck.

 

This is not really honest. Etg and slay the spire are extremely skill based games. Cant say anything about spelunky (havent played it) but it could very well be argued that dont starve has always been a lot more unfair than gungeon or spire because this game just simply doesnt tell things to new players.

[Cheggf 8604]

It's not a roguelite because you carry nothing with you between worlds. Maybe it's a roguelike but I'd say it's a time management game, survival game, or sandbox game before roguelike since they all fit waaaay better.

[jan Mele 1260]

8 hours ago, Dr.Medic said:

i think its more a rougeLIKE and not a lite, since you dont get to keep anything but your expiernce, thats a difference, like you start from 0, while lite is that you start whit something for the next run, be it armor or more potions or what ever

Nope.

People who make the distinction between roguelikes and roguelites usually meant that the former is also a turnbased (with extra steps) gridbased rpg. Outside of dedicated communities it's more convenient to call the former (if the distinction is important) "Traditional roguelikes", "Rogue clones" or whatever, if no one has described something as a roguelite . 

[ArubaroBeefalo 18120]

i bough it for the aesthetic, mechanics and being a rogelite

instead of getting new powers you got new knowledge with each world plus some worlds were easier or more difficult with the set piece, traps diseabled in dst code (lile the weather traps or the cabe bases), etc. Back in the day exploring the whole map before making a base was a fantasy idea, i didnt have the knowlege so finding certain fallen survivors or set piece plus the obtained knowlege with my lsst death made the game a rogelite experience that nowadays isnt noticeable because dst reviving mechanics, less randomised worlds, waaay more knowlege

[Mobbstar 14139]

I don't think DST qualifies as Roguelike/Roguelite in the original meaning nor in the sense usually understood. Specifically because people do not start over until they manage to win. There is no victory condition, only a risk of losing. Luck doesn't make or break a playthrough. Circumstance does not encourage players to vary their playstyle. What makes a game a roguelike, if not a constant need to adapt and weigh options?

The only part of Don't Starve which meets my expectation of a Roguelike is Adventure Mode.

I cannot participate in the poll because I'd have to answer questions I cannot give meaningful answers to.

[Theukon-dos 4020]

What Uncompromising/RougeLite features? Did I miss something in the patch notes?

[SinancoTheBest 6282]

12 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

What Uncompromising/RougeLite features? Did I miss something in the patch notes?

Glorious return of disease, everyone rejoice!

 

[jan Mele 1260]

1 minute ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Glorious return of disease, everyone rejoice!

 

Disease only took away a little time once in a blue moon. I wouldn't call it uncompromising. 

Funny edit tho. 

[Mike23Ua 14491]

18 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

What Uncompromising/RougeLite features? Did I miss something in the patch notes?

Hound Waves now including Vargs, Ancient Guardian tweaks, Wolfgang now losing Mightiness when taking damage & Armor does not negate this?

let us not forget this is the same company who Nerfed Wavey Jones because people felt he was too uncompromising.

[Theukon-dos 4020]

3 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Hound Waves now including Vargs, Ancient Guardian tweaks, Wolfgang now losing Mightiness when taking damage & Armor does not negate this?

let us not forget this is the same company who Nerfed Wavey Jones because people felt he was too uncompromising.

The idea behind Hound Waves including Vargs was; presumably; to make them less annoying. More obvious now that they've been nerfed to Varglings. Ancient Guardian is still a very easy fight, all Klei did was make it a fun fight. And let's not forget that they also made Wolfgang gain mightyness on hit and greatly increased the rate at which he can gain mightyness.

[ALCRD 2587]

Neither DS nor DST are even close to being "Roguelite" type of games.