sped Should Wolfgang get his Speed Boost back?

[Spirit Glow 180]

14 hours ago, Pig Princess said:

I think Wolfgang's speedboost should be tied to low sanity, not to form, mightiness or hunger, and be consistent (non-linear). That way Wolfgang can be fast while mighty or wimpy, but would have more enteractable property with various strategies around maintaining it (other than eating a lot; especially if he will spawn more shadowns and have speed boost while shadows are aggressive or very close to that) and retain his skill ceiling. Also that would give him utility he lacks outside of battle.

This is such a good idea!

[Mike23Ua 14206]

As I’ve said in the other threads: lock his speed boost behind PROGRESSION or some Serious downside, and I’m fine with it.. make it some expensive craftable consumable I don’t care..

but at that point: Why not just let him craft and distribute to everyone Magical Energy Bars that give EVERYONE that burst of speed?

People want this back FOR BOSS RUSHING and it needs to be locked behind needing to actually play the game and progress through it.

Like I expressed Walter, Wendy and Wanda all need to do: Wolfgang did not.

NOW with Might no longer being tied to eating: Maybe? As long as it’s an expensive craft and isn’t as easy as just eating to keep speed.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mike23Ua

[Copyafriend 550]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

As I’ve said in the other threads: lock his speed boost behind PROGRESSION or some Serious downside, and I’m fine with it.. make it some expensive craftable consumable I don’t care..

but at that point: Why not just let him craft and distribute to everyone Magical Energy Bars that give EVERYONE that burst of speed?

People want this back FOR BOSS RUSHING and it needs to be locked behind needing to actually play the game and progress through it.

Like I expressed Walter, Wendy and Wanda all need to do: Wolfgang did not.

NOW with Might no longer being tied to eating: Maybe? As long as it’s an expensive craft and isn’t as easy as just eating to keep speed.

Im gonna be real i dont think he needs a speed boost at all. I like the energy bar thing, but maybe just make that a regular crockpot thing for dsts coffee

[Dextops 3701]

13 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

People want this back FOR BOSS RUSHING and it needs to be locked behind needing to actually play the game and progress through it.

people want it so he can actually have a skill ceiling and have more generalization 

[Mike23Ua 14206]

5 hours ago, Dextops said:

people want it so he can actually have a skill ceiling and have more generalization 

Okay so: You want to move faster and hit harder and be able to wear armors and the best backpacks in the game while in Mighty mode? 
 

That’s not a skill ceiling: And this is coming from a WENDY MAIN.

If they bring the Speed buff back at all.. I hope is tied to his wimpy or normal form, or can be a choice between leg workout or arm workout but NEVER both at the same time, Or as some very end game craftable “Belt of Speed” but then… Aren’t there already craftables in the game that people can make for Speed?

It would be better if Klei just axe’s his Movement speed altogether and then just adds a crockpot dish everyone can use for that speed buff.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mike23Ua

[Dextops 3701]

Just now, Mike23Ua said:

Okay so: You want to move faster and hit harder and be able to wear armors and the best backpacks in the game while in Mighty mode? 
 

That’s not a skill ceiling: And this is coming from a WENDY MAIN.

If they bring the Speed buff back at all.. I hope is tied to his wimpy or normal form, or can be a choice between leg workout or arm workout but NEVER both at the same time, Or as some very end game craftable “Belt of Speed” but then… Aren’t there already craftables in the game that people can make for Speed?

It would be better if Klei just axe’s his Movement speed altogether and then just adds a crockpot dish everyone can use for that speed buff.

the skill ceiling was using your speed and timing it correctly to get an extra hit in also hitting harder is not all its cracked up to be ive already explained why tying his speed to anything other than his mighty form is stupid and you should know this since i told it to you. Axing his speed buff does nothing it solves no problem except people who don't play him can sleep well knowing a character they won't play ever is getting nerfed it didn't make him any more fun it made him less fun and i can't explain this enough yet people do not listen so ill put it in caps and bold it WOLFGANG COULD WEAR THE PIGGY SAC WITH NO SPEED PENALTY BEFORE THIS UPDATE THIS WAS NOT A NEW FEATURE idk anything that can compensate for speed so klei has two options either give his speed penalty to mighty form adding a skill ceiling to his character once again and making becoming mighty worth it and add a speed decrease to wimpy form to add a meaningful downside and a reason to carry a dumbell with you at all times

[Mike23Ua 14206]

That doesn’t make any sense… You would still move faster, hit harder and with the rework- Be Mighty even longer..

Its broken and OP like Wickers Book which got Nerfed down to 10 plants.

Consider this: Every boss in the game that is currently in the game or WILL be added to the game later.. has to be designed solely around WOLFGANG- which makes those fights kiting patterns harder to dodge for any non-Wolfgang because well hey wouldn’tcha know Wolfgang who finishes fights faster and moves quicker still exists.

Wolfgang getting this Speed nerf Universally means they can go back and relook at all the bosses and fine tune those now so they aren’t pure hell on anyone who didn’t pick Wolfgang.

Same as if they just added the Speed boost as a coffee or something: they no longer need to balance the fight around this one super speedy OP Character because now EVERYONE is on a level playing field.

(minus his title of being mightiest)

[Dextops 3701]

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Its broken and OP like Wickers Book which got Nerfed down to 10 plants.

those weren't op and idk why people say they were op.
people say food is not a problem and then say something that gave you food was op also this was nerfed not removed completely 

1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

Every boss in the game that is currently in the game or WILL be added to the game later.. has to be designed solely around WOLFGANG- which makes those fights kiting patterns harder to dodge for any non-Wolfgang because well hey wouldn’tcha know Wolfgang who finishes fights faster and moves quicker still exists.

no...no they don't honestly don't know where you got this from speed kiting relies on your skill more so than regular kiting and gives you more benefit they don't need to balance anything around wolfgang it'd be like balancing all movement options around wanda and making them all 5x faster to compensate for not having wandas tp ability 

[Mike23Ua 14206]

20 minutes ago, Dextops said:

those weren't op and idk why people say they were op.
people say food is not a problem and then say something that gave you food was op also this was nerfed not removed completely 

no...no they don't honestly don't know where you got this from speed kiting relies on your skill more so than regular kiting and gives you more benefit they don't need to balance anything around wolfgang it'd be like balancing all movement options around wanda and making them all 5x faster to compensate for not having wandas tp ability 

You mean like they very specifically rebalanced tons of the games mobs to no longer be able to Stun-lock as much with a Whip because Wanda’s new weapons made those Stun-locks more noticed?

Yeah.. yeah they did do that, and now that they’ve Nerfed Wolfgang’s Speed, they can Nerf some of the boss mechanics that were designed around that speed (or alternatively add a new food like the Sanity Tea so everyone can be speedy)

This game is changing ALOT and it’s not just because of Wolfgang’s changes- I can now get a Beefalo bell and have both Extra Speed and Extra damage as early as DAY ONE.

Literally the ONLY Way I would personally ever agree to give Wolfgang back his speed exclusively to JUST WOLFGANG- Would be to give him heavy penalty’s in other areas like: He’s a bigger man, so his Extra weight slows down the movement of Beefalo, Wolfgang is big stubborn & proud of his own physical power that he straight up refuses to use a Walking Cane because he sees it as a “Crutch” 

Aka: If you want his broken Speed… BALANCE IT.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Mike23Ua

[Dextops 3701]

1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

Aka: If you want his broken Speed… BALANCE IT.

already gave some ideas which is make it 1.15 and make it so his wimpy side loses speed and stunlocking an enemy does not take skill but speed kiting does making a boss go faster is not broken and does not need bosses to be balanced around it

[Cloakingsumo198 1885]

It's been forever and I don't play anymore but I remember the appeal of wolf was his one man army and get it done gameplay.  His damage and speed boost allowed fluid combat even in the most of hectic situations the increased speed allowed kiting and avoiding most damage to preserve armor and hitting hard helped to preserve weapon durability.  The only downside he had aside from negligible sanity loss was eating every couple seconds to stay in tip top shape.  Anybody that says wolf was a drain of resources just didn't really play him right cause if you did well you saved resources and would have time to spare to keep going looking for fights or gathering before heading back to stockpile.  As wolf you had to been hunting for food all the time, but you would end up with alot of extra for your teammates when you see them again.  Wolf would use alot of resources to help sustain himself but it was made up by the fact he was stronger and faster allowing more to be done in less time with the drawback of costing more food to maintain that power.  Speed wasn't just useful in combat but also for cutting up travel time which is tedious for everybody especially if walrus was stingy or the wormholes of the world are stinky.  Adding it back though on top of wolf not being slowed by heavy objects would be pretty busted though.  As it stands wolf's whole pacing was just kinda warped?? for people who don't even play him in the first place or know how he functioned when realizing his max potential before so that kinda sucks for those who mained him. if he can't have his machoman speed back at least let him feel strong in ways outside of combat and lifting heavy stuff. Breaking down resources faster at the cost of durability for tools would at least bring some of that faster feeling back. Or have his mighty meter increase by him facing his fears or getting physical with anything be it fighting/chopping/mining so it doesn't feel like a stop in pacing when you gotta stop to lift just to get stronk. I feel it would be better that if you as  the player couldn't stick with the wolf's constant grind of keeping his muscle mass and calorie count up high and end up wimpy then you should feel some serious consequences to his abilities make him worse than wes in that state for the hell of it REALLY make him live up to that forms name and make him a WIMP.  It's just my opinion but rn wolf looks more tedious and weaker than his old self and wasn't really given a new coat or set of tools. Alot of other characters have have neat ways of using their abilities with the mechanics of the game to make traps and contraptions to aid in survival but wolf. I think of wolf and wigfrid being simplistic in design and lacking real ingenuity is part of what makes them the don't starve crew's powerhouses and that's just fine.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Cloakingsumo198
Tidied it up

[ViCiOuS-V. 126]

He should have another station tied to speed only. Treadmill or something that is cardio related. Then again idk lol.

[reallychina 813]

On 12/11/2021 at 1:35 PM, BeeClops said:

mind boggling to me that the majority of people voting here actually think fast heavy item carrying is a good compensation for not having speed bonus. Like, it's not even worth discussing, it has nothing to do with it gameplay wise or does it compensate in any way. Carrying statues fast is a very whatever perk, I never thought people think this perk is as good as having extra speed. 

 

Its because the average player is not good at the game and does not understand it well enough. There is no easy way to say it.

 

Wolfgang can be played to his max potential without any of the new perks, marble etc. 

 

Its very common not using any backpack to begin with and use magi most of the time.

 

The average player doesnt even imagine such a playstyle exists.

 

I do understand that perma 2x damage and speed is too much and makes fights too easy but there is no reason for the normal form not to get the speed.

Edited December 13, 2021 by reallychina

[Dextops 3701]

On 12/13/2021 at 3:15 AM, reallychina said:

Wolfgang can be played to his max potential without any of the new perks, marble etc. 

Which is extremely boring. No skill ceiling isn’t a good thing but a detrimental thing because any skill you’ve accumulated in your play time doesn’t matter with this character and I really hope that is changed 

[Lurdiak 15]

Going fast is not a gimmick that makes sense for a muscleman.

[Dextops 3701]

On 2/16/2022 at 1:13 AM, Lurdiak said:

Going fast is not a gimmick that makes sense for a muscleman.

same for a plant yet both should have their speed kept

[ArubaroBeefalo 17493]

28 minutes ago, Dextops said:

same for a plant yet both should have their speed kept

is a humanoid plant and his metabolism is accelerate (increase hunger rate) so being quickly has some sense

but im with you that "strong man shouldnt be speedy" isnt a good reason neither realistic in some cases

Edited February 17 by ArubaroBeefalo
wtf i wrote

[x0-VERSUS-1y 8762]

1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

is a humanoid plant and his metabolism is accelerate (increase hunger rate) so being quickly has some sense

but im with you that "strong man shouldnt be speedy" isnt a good reason neither realistic in some cases

"..is an... athlete doing a lot of exercises ... and his metabolism is accelerate (increase hunger rate) so being quickly has some sense.."

Also realism and DST.. hmm.

I for one (as a past Wolfgang casual enjoyer) am not so invested in his (ex-)speed as am at his current iteration's lack of Mighty consistent maintenance. Namely the high perceived rate of Mightiness loss and his only way (with semi-passive and passive variants) to gain Might. I've tried him one last time these recent days (past week atm of this comment) on some Endless pub run and gotta admit at the end of it: is a tedious choir - countless times I had to "epic Wolf game-play moment" stop and idle that Gembell animation, not to mention going out of Might 2/3 into Toad and CK fight. As it stands, Wolf really needs another method to keep-or-gain Mighty, late-game or otherwise, that's not Dumb-bell/Gym dependent. Or at least during combat his Mighty loss should be 1/2 of what currently is.

Edited February 17 by x0-VERSUS-1y

[Lurdiak 15]

To elaborate on my previous comment, I don't think a speed boost fits with the role Wolfgang was ever meant to have in-game, and even less with this more specialized rework version. Wheeler from Hamlet is a character built all around conditional speed, and that speed was specifically tied to her being an explorer, a 'scout' character who's great at revealing the map, finding resources, finding monsters but ducking out their way. And her downsides made it hard for her to be a pack rat, which balanced her mobility and encouraged base building if for no other reason than having somewhere to put all her stuff.

Wolfgang's gimmick was always about balancing his power with his food consumption, with the speed being an almost unrelated bonus his mighty form had. There wasn't really a push and pull with how the speed boost worked with him, other than it was constantly dwindling along with his stats as his stomach emptied. When he was reworked, Klei decided to focus even further on the "strongman" aspect and gave him a variety of other bonuses in mighty form that relate to strength, and removed the speed. And they also added the very controversial working out mechanics.

Even if you think the rework overall made Wolfgang less interesting to play, I don't think giving him his speed back will resolve this. I think his new specialization is a step in the right direction, in fact. The real reason speed is missed is because speed is an overall incredibly useful stat, which combined with his much higher dps and hp, made Mighty Wolfgang good at basically everything. The speed helped him kite, explore, gather resources, flee dangerous enemies, reach safe areas before dark, move bases, etc. It was an extremely powerful bonus on top of his already significant advantages. Yes, a constantly-dwindling and unstable bonus, but a very significant one nonetheless which, in my view, contributed to making him a flat out better character than almost everyone else in the roster.

A character who has a speed bonus should be designed around that speed bonus, and very carefully at that. I'm quite sure if Wheeler ever makes it to DST, she will be significantly nerfed and probably have even more downsides to her awesome zipping around, but even her original version showed a better awareness of speed's importance than old Wolfgang. Wolfgang's focus on being a tankier, more stable character only makes sense both from a lore and team gameplay perspective, and any serious problems he has can be addressed without giving him his speed back.

As a last word to those who strongly disagree... if Wolf never had a speed bonus, and this rework came out, would you be furious they hadn't included a speed boost with his new abilities? Or would it not even occur to you?

Edited February 19 by Lurdiak

[Mr.zork 21]

Just downloaded a mods and stop crying

[Mike23Ua 14206]

Speed is the most over powered and over looked perk in this game, and your wanting to have that on the one character who already hits with 2x damage literally finishing any and every fight he gets into in half as much time as it takes any other character?

My answer is a clear and definitive NO Wolfgang should NOT get his speed back.

The reasons why should be obvious but just encase they are not:

Lets consider the Characters with extra Speed:

Wormwood- Small.. Weak.. can’t HEAL from eating foods.. Doesn’t do 2x Damage.

Walter: Small, Also Weak, loses constant Sanity at the slightest bit of health lost and can’t use Sanity restoration clothing to keep Sanity up, needs to feed Woby Monster Meat to Maintain Speedy form also doesn’t do 2x Damage.

Wurt- the closest character in this list your going to get to Wolfgang, Huge amounts of health, easy Sanity management with as little as a tophat and pet fish, has strong grip, Only eats Veggies and needs to craft a special type of ground turf to “Go Fast” also despite having more health than Wolfgang and a “Strong Grip” still doesn’t do 2x damage.

Wes- the worst of the worst, fragile, low health, low damage output, has a ton of downsides like mobs targeting him more often, Speed boost is Temporary and can NOT be stacked with Walking Cane/Magi.

Abigail- (Wait did he just say Abigail? Yes.. yes I did..) Abigail requires a Vigor Mortis Ectoherbology potion to move faster and when you apply one potion onto her it Cancels out any existing potions effects so sorry- you can’t use Nightshade Nostrum for the Damage Buff AND Still make her move fast.

Are you guys who even slightly thinking Wolfgang needs his speed back still not understanding why him having it in the first place was bad?

Ive played both Before & After Rework Wolfgang- And before his rework there was never a situation where I felt like I was ever in any danger (outside of running out of food..) I could just OUTRUN all my problems.. simply running out of food is an Issue that the more “Food Sources” Klei adds into the game becomes Less Noticeable- For example even biomes that are empty lifeless wastelands now thanks to Hook, Line & Inker have an Ocean bordering their outline so you can sea fish for food in an area food would otherwise had been sparse.

When it comes to Reworked Wolfgang I find myself in more situations where I actually need to FIGHT my problems instead of easily outrunning them. For example:

Hound Waves Pre-Rework Vs Hound Waves After Rework.

If Wolfgang got his speed boost back at all it should be tied only to his Wes-like Puny form.

But: that’s my opinion & I'm entitled to it.

 

Edited February 21 by Mike23Ua

[Dextops 3701]

On 2/19/2022 at 6:04 PM, Mr.zork said:

Just downloaded a mods and stop crying

console players exist and this could go for any problem with dst that exists and is a stupid counter argument 

[__IvoCZE__ 10443]

On 2/20/2022 at 12:04 AM, Mr.zork said:

Just downloaded a mods and stop crying

"Just download a ton of potentially unstable mods."

Propably one of the worst arguments I have found.

Installing mods isn't a way to fix stuff, it's just a means for ignorance.

Edited February 23 by __IvoCZE__
i dont see the point in checking this website anymore

[ShadowDuelist 10324]

I think no bonus speed probably would be overlooked by many players if he was fun in “the new stuff”, which he isn’t.

It’s like If after Woodie’s rework his new forms sucked, old mains would complain (as they did anyway) but also people trying him out or casual Woodie players, would also not be satisfied, and would probably end up agreeing with the old mains to make him back just as he was. But that’s only because if you feel something is not fun, you just want to have whatever was somewhat more fun in the past, even if it’s not well designed.

This is why I always suggest Wolfgang should get new perks + the tweaks to the half baked perks he got (The rowing speed being meh, throwing dumbbells being more cost effective, gaining some mightyness with actions to not have to stop to train so often, etc) that were thoroughly discussed by other forumites.

Also another seemingly lost thing is having a purpose for wimpy form other than a punishment. Why not give Wimpy Wolfgang a slow hunger rate, and an increased healing factor? (As in all hp restored adds much more) to compensate a bit for all the other negative stuff wimpy has. This would give wimpy form a use: cheaper healing, and consuming less food while you work/decorate.