O.J.Vodka

Mutant plants are a joke. After four months, few people take the initiative to use them.

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O.J.Vodka    71

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Do not improve the importance of mutant plants, with the current harsh mutation conditions, will never be accepted by players. The picture is angel biotechnology. In the process of the game, the earlier the biotechnology is built, the earlier the revenue is, which greatly simplifies the complexity of the later game.

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Timotheeee1    46

the main issue is that by the time you get your fancy exuberant sleet wheat farm setup, you're at the stage of the game where food isn't really an issue anymore. there needs to be more radiation sources and the seed analyser should be easier to unlock.

 

one way to make use of plant mutations in the current game is to trap all wild shinebugs in a 1x1 tile to provide rads for research, and this frees up the wheezes for early game sleet wheat mutation, but you gotta get lucky as sleet wheat take ages to grow.

Edited by Timotheeee1
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boiledDupe    25

Maybe a building to convert radbolts into a solid and fed to the plants / used as a fertilizer.  The current mechanism of having radition emitting radbolts or nuclear waste, etc. makes it less accessible early.

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Solon64    13
55 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

Mutant plants are clearly an end-game feature for those interested. They are not a mechanic anybody needs to use. As such, they still add to the game. It is not only core content that makes a good game.

The issue being brought up is not that mutated plants are a feature at all, it's that they're a feature that comes far too late to have any real utility. By the time you can really start with them, food has been "solved" for ages, and there aren't really any plants that have a use outside food or deco.

Mutated plants would be really cool if there were actual game mechanic changers involved, like say a mealwood mutation that also spills crude oil when harvested, or sleet wheat that also drops plastic.

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NeoDeusMachina    665
17 minutes ago, Solon64 said:

The issue being brought up is not that mutated plants are a feature at all, it's that they're a feature that comes far too late to have any real utility. By the time you can really start with them, food has been "solved" for ages, and there aren't really any plants that have a use outside food or deco.

Mutated plants would be really cool if there were actual game mechanic changers involved, like say a mealwood mutation that also spills crude oil when harvested, or sleet wheat that also drops plastic.

To be fair, both food and oxygen can be "solved" very early and very easily with an electrolyzer and bristle blossoms. There are plenty of water geysers (2 guaranteed cold water geysers on all maps, very easy to tame, even provides base cooling).

Everything else has no real utility and is only "cause you can" or "cause you want to".

Edit: I would like to mention that despite what I said above, it doesn't mean I do not appreciate all the other stuff, because I do! And I still run colonies for very long times because the game is also not just about solving food and solving oxygen to keep duplicants alive.

Edited by NeoDeusMachina
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Gurgel    2975
50 minutes ago, NeoDeusMachina said:

Everything else has no real utility and is only "cause you can" or "cause you want to".

Well, Oni has an initial "ensure survival" phase, but that one is rarely long if you rush it. After that, it is about extending capabilities and expanding dupe population. I get that some people only really play the initial phase, but that makes features for later phases not useless. It just makes them useful for other people and I am sure I am not the only one that has colonies that are active much longer than 1000 cycles.

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NeoDeusMachina    665
1 minute ago, Gurgel said:

Well, Oni has an initial "ensure survival" phase, but that one is rarely long if you rush it. After that, it is about extending capabilities and expanding dupe population. I get that some people only really play the initial phase, but that makes features for later phases not useless. It just makes them useful for other people and I am sure I am not the only one that has colonies that are active much longer than 1000 cycles.

Pretty much, and I am one of those other people :-)

 It was mostly to illustrate that the argument from @Solon64 that "they're a feature that comes far too late to have any real utility. By the time you can really start with them, food has been "solved" for ages" alone doesn't mean that that feature is useless and should necessarily be changed. A lot of features in ONI aren't meant for the same phase of the game or even for the sole purpose of having dupes survive because that can be resolved rather simply if that is only what one is after.

I don't know if that makes sense, perhaps I explained it poorly XD

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Solon64    13

No, you explained it well Neo, I'm the one who may have been misleading. It's not that we don't all love the tools we're given to play with, its just that this particular tool is like handing a baby rattle to a Ph.D. engineer: it's "solves" a problem that no longer exists once it comes around.

Make it early game and it would be fantastic.

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Gurgel    2975
23 minutes ago, Solon64 said:

It's not that we don't all love the tools we're given to play with, its just that this particular tool is like handing a baby rattle to a Ph.D. engineer: it's "solves" a problem that no longer exists once it comes around.

Well, as a Ph.D. engineer, may I inquire as to the exact nature of that baby rattle?

That said, this feature is not about solving a problem, IMO. It is about optimizing things late-game. 

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goboking    2172
18 minutes ago, Smife said:

Well there's a mechanic called Decor that can be ignored at any stage.

Decor is also a mechanic that can be utilized at any stage.  The same can't be said for plant mutations.

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KonfigSys    262

the problem with mutated plants that it is very inefficient at the current stage.

1. it is difficult to produce mass quantities of required seeds - this one is ok if it was the only feature. Nuclear reactor, shine bugs, wheezeworts, r/a rocket launchers, satellite - plenty of options.

2. The main problem comes with 25rad requirements for growth. So you go through hassles collecting all the seeds required and now you need to build a very complex and quite inefficient system to get +25% or even +100% but you could get the same food amount with just bigger standard farms.

Compared with simple and resource-free pip farms it is also inferior.

 

It is ok to experiment in a sand box or do it once in a game but it is not useful / efficient in the long run as it is now.

 

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mfd    30

25rads for Superspecialized is OK. Even if it's not efficient, if it's difficult, then it's worth it.

Apparent problem is that Easygoing is not easygoing.

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blakemw    163

tbh with as hard as it is to mass produce seeds I don't understand why there is also an annoying rads requirement.

I would never use mutated seeds unless one or the other goes: either seeds should be easy to reproduce, or they should be easy to grow. There's already a massive punishment for mutating seeds (in my mind) in the form of UI clutter.

Or some effects should be much more potent to justify the effort. Like mutating pincha pepperplant to drop fullerene.

edit: Of course annoying requirements on potent mutations is fine... I could accept a plant that drops fullerene to not multiply and need radiation, but some basic mutations should reproduce and not need radiation.

Edited by blakemw
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TheMule    346
On 9/27/2021 at 10:34 PM, Timotheeee1 said:

where food isn't really an issue anymore

It depends on how many tiles and pipes you want to build with insulation as material.

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cpy    610

I feel like you should need radiation to mutate plants but not for normal growing. Once you bred or mutated new plant it should grow without radiation, or make some kind of radlamp or something.

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babba    2097

 

On 9/28/2021 at 8:00 PM, Gurgel said:

Well, as a Ph.D. engineer, may I inquire as to the exact nature of that baby rattle?

That said, this feature is not about solving a problem, IMO. It is about optimizing things late-game. 

I would like to order "The best battle baby rattle" for implementation in to the game - To be honest, I like them all. :bee:

There is sooooo many, infinite variety with varying accident possibilities and hidden dangers. Better stick with the Radlamp ! :lemo:

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On 10/17/2021 at 12:50 PM, Hokaeru said:

Now we have radiation lamp hehe :lol:

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Edited by babba

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DaClown    51
On 9/27/2021 at 7:39 PM, silverbluep said:

Plant mutations are for isoresin and making colonizing other asteroids easier.

What I wish is that once you discover a mutation seed, you could manufacture it. Along with eggs and morphs. Botanical seed analyzer consumes one critter egg/mutated seed to upload it's genetic data to your research data-bank. Then you can print the egg/seed using a bunch of radbolts and some hard to get material. And rad lamps so that we can reserve wheezeworts to industrial solutions.

I think this is a good suggestion. A research option in the mid to late game research that unlocks a bench that lets you catalogue, reverse engineer, and manufacture agricultural varieties.

Bonus points if you can unlock a gene mixer or something similar that lets you splice mutations to try and create new variants (no guarantees that any attempt is successful or that specific mutations are compatible).

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Gurgel    2975
19 hours ago, babba said:

image.png.3bbf645b4a2fa29b16cbdf69fab43466.pngimage.png.e7b5a9949ade47ce6aa2aa40047d1e5c.pngimage.png.ef95b9d4db189546315135663fa1178f.pngimage.png.edd0fdc2867f5f625c4012447121ba71.pngimage.png.09b0802dacaed2e4132386d796ee7956.png

Excellent! I think every PhD engineer should get one of those with their title! Sadly all I got was a piece of paper.

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Gurgel    2975
Just now, nome said:

Should have gone to school in Canada. Look up the iron ring ceremony.

Nice!

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