Lord Cafe

Why so many people think Wanda is Broken?

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Cheggf    4223
2 hours ago, Cr4zyFl4mes said:

where did you get this number?

Probably the same place they got the number of Wolfgang having double speed.

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Dextops    1721
1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

SOMETHING takes a Nerf.

why?explain for one second why wolfgang needs a nerf? because he kills mobs faster which is situational and he has a speed boost which is actually good and taking that away would lessen his value a lot why nerf him why not make him a more interesting character

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JosePapp    980

I think this is a Wheeler scenario, they can pull off balancing her just fine. It's just slight number tune ups that are needed

 

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MikoFanboy    1432

why does people want to balancing a character so bad when Wes exist

"duh, Wes is for people want to challenge themself or enjoy a challenging gameplay, if you don't enjoy his gameplay then don't play as him"

and the same thing can be say for the other character 

isn't the idea of balancing is the thing that ruined Willow and Woodie in the early day of DST? 

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Mike23Ua    11234
18 minutes ago, Dextops said:

why?explain for one second why wolfgang needs a nerf? because he kills mobs faster which is situational and he has a speed boost which is actually good and taking that away would lessen his value a lot why nerf him why not make him a more interesting character

The thread isn’t about wolfgang but alright I’ll explain it-  long Wolfgang post in Spoiler.

Spoiler

and since I’m a Wendy main…When Wendy got her rework she was given more control and utility over Abigail but that didn’t come as a free Upgrade- She actually has to do SOME Work exclusive to playing as Wendy to do these things-

1- Finding a Pipspook Graveyard, doing a Wendy exclusive Quest to help them find lost ghost stuffs in exchange for Ectoherbology Potions to improve Abigails performance.

2- Exclusive Wendy only Craftable Structure that has to be fueled with Flower Petals to further benefit Abigail/Wendy 

And 3- Temporary frames of vulnerability to being attacked while she literally takes a couple seconds “Ghost-Whispering” into her Sisters Flower to Sooth/Rile Up Summon/Desummon her ghostly sister.

The TL:DR- You actually had to DO SOMETHING besides just stuff food in your mouth to achieve Wendy’s full power.

And when it comes to Wolfgang “nerf” doesn’t necessarily mean “make weaker” it means- “Make more interesting & Unique”

For example maybe he could lift heavy objects without movement speed penalty, maybe he could pick up and throw other players because he is a strongman after all, but with great power should come great work to achieve said power- 

Maybe he needs to perform “Mighty Actions” to maintain his mighty Form (Aka carrying heavy items, using his signature Dumbell etc..) rather than just “Eat Food Become Superman with no hard Kryptonite”

As a WENDY MAIN who has to go through so much work and so much Exclusive just to Wendy gameplay- Wolfgang is utterly BORING and I’m not Apologizing for saying that.

I used to think WES was Boring but Klei actually managed to make him really enjoyable with his rework- I can only hope they have some cool ideas for Wolfgang.

Something like being able to Merm-Punch boulders with his bare fists in Mighty Form etc etc… but to GET those new Perks-

He needs proper NERFS/Balance first.

Now that my rant about Wolfgang is out of the way- I Think Wanda will get tweaks over the month until Klei feels she’s in a comfortable spot before moving on to whatever’s next (which by the way fingers crossed we get details on today!)

Edited by Mike23Ua

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Dextops    1721
1 hour ago, Mike23Ua said:

“Make more interesting & Unique”

if thats what you meant then im all for that but making aspects of them weaker should be for making them more fun not for the sake of balance

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Blaze-    17
4 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Probably the same place they got the number of Wolfgang having double speed.

Exactly people who think wolfgang must be nerfed are delusional and most likely don't play the character nor do they understand how it works. He has a small - or + in speed which applies only in certain condions based on his hunger, same goes for the 'double damage' and it is never a fixed 2x dmg, as his dmg scales with his hunger(which drops insanely fast). He is good for certain speedruns and situational mob fights but overall there are far more overpowered characters, and nobody ever addresses the elephant in the room which is Wendy.

She beats wolfgang even in speedruns and in usefulness but most wendy mains are too toxic to admit how insanely overpowered she is and would rather talk about the imp or potato man. And for those complaining that his mechanics are too simple, they're wrong( he has 3 different forms and needs micromanagement to handle them), besides that's how he's meant be: focused on his food meter more than any other character. Klei shouldn't change him just because he doesn't fulfill the fantasies of some or because they don't find him fun enough, tastes differ people.

You can see who's overpowered for yourself, just check servers and see that 4/8 are wendies. She makes the gameplay feel extremely easy hence she's the main choice for all newbies, just get abi to murder everything, farming silk and monster meat 2x faster than webber himself, easy day 3 BQ DF solo, easy ruins, whole killer bee biomes dead in seconds, pig/bunnymen villages effortless extinction, easy nightmare fuel farm from shadow monkeys, plus the beef + petal insane dmg meta.

The potions are op in case you actually know how to use them. The ingredients for potions are extremely easy to get and abundant (except for living logs which can too be easily obtained by farming mush gnomes with abi or just ask wormwood) while mourning glory the main ingredient is a piece of cake to obtain, in 2 days I managed to hoard 2 stacks. She is just too versatile and good at everything making most tedious tasks effortless.


And now back to the topic of the threat, Wanda. She is indeed kinda overpowered but that shouldn't be surprising since she just got added, so we can expect that she will be further tweaked. I hope klei really finds her niche and focuses on that rather than making her good as so many things and giving her so many skills and pros. For example woodie/ maxwell (resource farmers), wolfgang (dmg dealer), wortox (healer), Wurt (merm workers boss) etc. Klei really made each character different and with a certain focus, and that's the point of Don't Starve Together to use the synergy and combos of characters to complement eachother. But Wanda is just so many things, so has high damage like wolfgang, she puts wortox's soul hop to shame as she can teleport back to base from ruins or anywhere else in an instant with backtrek, she can avoid dmg with backstep, and can open a damn wormhole for everyone, she can also heal herself. She makes support characters like Wigfrid feel completely useless since Wanda has more dmg, better heal and a whole arsenal of actual useful abilities compared to wig's songs.
Aside from all these Wanda is a good character and I really like the direction klei took with her, they tried something different, making the new character very different in playstyle and abilities and it feels like a breath of fresh air. As for nerf they could cap her max dmg at old age. 

Edited by Blaze-
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Third Porkus    74
5 minutes ago, Blaze- said:

 But Wendy and abi can absolutely stomp any mob without effort with the right approach.

 

anybody can stomp any mob lol, the highest health mobs are like 800 (there are higher, but useless). and ones that are aoe stunned are you can use cave skeleton for 

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Lord Cafe    104

Thanks for all the feedback i don't have much to say Wanda is already in game and she got changed in some minnor aspects which are completely fine but i can't ignore the fact most of comments that are against me just say "double speed"  i know ins't double speed in reality it's just a way to say because there's no way someone play wolfgang in might form and don't feel he walks so fast that almost feels like double speed.

I hope that this is enough to explain why i said "double speed" because it's preety complicated to have to explain with exatcly values everything in dst but this don't change the fact that his low risk / high reward and some months ago i asked for REWORK with DEPTH mechanics for him and a lot of people liked it so i don't hate wolfgang i hate the fact people say others characters are OP while ignoring him but as i said early, we should ask klei for reworks and not nerfs, making everyone good we will not have any OP character since everyone will be good to play.


 

Edited by Lord Cafe

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Lukmendes    87

Are there people really thinking that infinite healing is OP? I'm not really good at the game, and I could tell right away that the infinite healing was weak compared to food... The cooldown is too big, and the animation to use it is lengthy too.

Making the clock limited would be dumb too, it already doesn't reverse her time too much, having to get resources for it on top of that? Pass... A clock that reverses her time more, that is limited could work though, but her default clock should be infinite, 'cause she's basically a character who's poisoned all the time.

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Mysterious box    1097
2 hours ago, Lukmendes said:

Are there people really thinking that infinite healing is OP? I'm not really good at the game, and I could tell right away that the infinite healing was weak compared to food... The cooldown is too big, and the animation to use it is lengthy too.

Making the clock limited would be dumb too, it already doesn't reverse her time too much, having to get resources for it on top of that? Pass... A clock that reverses her time more, that is limited could work though, but her default clock should be infinite, 'cause she's basically a character who's poisoned all the time.

It's honestly not as bad as it seems she only loses about 2 years per hit against bosses like dragon fly with dark armor and less than a year against mobs like pigs in the armor using armor in general makes her alot more durable than she seems. Personally I think she's perfect now healing is extremely easy with her allowing her to be abit sloppy with what she does and eats while doing basic gathering but heavily punishing her for being sloppy in more serious situations(tanking).

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goblinball    378
8 hours ago, Blaze- said:

just check servers and see that 4/8 are wendies.

You see a lot of wendies on public lobbies because Wendy is a good beginner player; beginners struggle most with combat and abigail helps in this department (only sometimes, but most new wendies don’t get past deerclops so they don’t really experience the times where abigail really crumbles). Wendy’s 25% less sanity drain from auras is great for new players as well, since they also struggle with insanity monsters. While Wendy is definitely not underpowered, it’s important to keep in mind that good for beginners ≠ overpowered, and neither does being popular on public servers. According to this logic, Wilson should be one of the best characters since new players on public lobbies always play as him. (It’s also important to keep in mind that some people on public servers not even play as Wendy because of her perks, I wouldn’t be surprised if there weren’t a few people who played as her because “she looks cool” or something.)

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Lukmendes    87
1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

It's honestly not as bad as it seems she only loses about 2 years per hit against bosses like dragon fly with dark armor and less than a year against mobs like pigs in the armor using armor in general makes her alot more durable than she seems. Personally I think she's perfect now healing is extremely easy with her allowing her to be abit sloppy with what she does and eats while doing basic gathering but heavily punishing her for being sloppy in more serious situations(tanking).

I'm not saying she's weak, it's just that with a healing as strict as the one she has, while also having a slower activation, and occupying so many slots if you carry more than one, her infinite healing is not a real competition with food, so it's not broken, at all, and it's baffling anyone would even suggest that non-ironically if they know how powerful food healing is lol.

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Theukon-dos    3271
16 hours ago, Lord Cafe said:

Why so many people complain about her being OP? is that a joke? we literraly have Wolfgang which can do double damage, double speed, 300 health and 200 sanity which nullifies his unique "dowside" which is a completely joke but Wanda is op cus she can do more damage while having to stand with 7hp? you can literraly die if the battle takes to long and you forget to "heal" youself in time.

Nobody's saying that Wolfgang isn't OP. It's just that he's been OP for so long that there's no point in complaining about it. It's like the dull throb of a sore leg while you're not using it. Sure it's there, and you sometimes forget about it. But it still sucks, and you sure as hell don't want more of them.

 

'cause yeah. Nobody in their right mind is asking for Wolfgang to be the basis for character balance. Sure, there are those that don't think balance is nessesary at all for this game, but even then, I don't see them saying things like "Give Wormwood 3x damage while blooming" or "Make Warly gain 3x the stats from crock pot foods".

16 hours ago, Lord Cafe said:



Teleporting to avoid hits takes time and more time in battle means more chance to die, that's why wolfgangs are always the rush characters for bosses you can easily go to the battle with 40 perogies and heal youself at every single hit without any problem and you can heal while attacking since there's a way to cut the healing animation in foods while keep atacking so it's literraly healing while attacking.

Not super handy for day-day combat, I admit. But while fighting Deerclops with Wanda, I could consistently get 5 hits in with the alarming clock and backstep watch; and probably could have gone for 6 if I was bolder. 

16 hours ago, Lord Cafe said:


But you can't go the battle with 40 clocks to heal or cut the theal animation you since there's not enough slots and there's cooldown between the uses so it's WAY EASIER to just make a bunch of food to tank instead of a lot of clocks, eventually you will beat bee queen and having bundle wrap so food will not spoil so any character in mid game can easily have heal at any time so clocks healing and not "spoiling" or breaking ins't bad, i saw some guys saying that self revive is OP cus she can use all the time, i mean, this is really a problem? Life ammulets are EASY to craft sometimes i literraly don't pick red gems cus of how many i already have so having a ammulet to self revive ins't anything new in  this game, maybe they can change the time to take more days since we don't need short cooldows to self revive since the game ins't about dying and reviving.

The self-revive was nerfed, so this isn't an issue anymore. But even then, not everyone has super good luck with red gems. And the issue wasn't so much that self-reviving was cheap. The issue was that you litterally could not fail.

With life-giving amulets, you would still run out. Either out of resources, inventory space, ect. But pre-nerf second chance watch had a cooldown that was equal to that of the world reset timer. This meant that, as long as you had a clock on you; you could just revive over and over and over again with no penalty. You may aswell have been playing endless mode.

 

But ofcourse, this is no longer an issue. And thus, we shall stop talking about it.

16 hours ago, Lord Cafe said:


~~snip~~

see above.

16 hours ago, Lord Cafe said:


I know it's to early to talk about the character but that's my point she ins't even released yet and people are already asking for a nerf while theres literraly a character in this game which is almost easy mod by just eating some meatballs which are  the most easy recipe in all game. Please stop asking Klei to nerf character, instead ask Klei to make all characters good with good mechanics we don't need to make someone else character worst to make your character shiny.

Sorry by any writing mistakes i'm still learning, Cheers.


 

Something else that people complained about was her weapon, as it's easilly the most powerful in the game.

 

Not gamebreaking by any means, but it's still incredably powerful compared to other such armaments; even in Wanda's weakened state. So yeah, she was definitly a bit over-tuned pre-launch. But as it stands now, I am incredibly happy with how she turned out.

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