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Drakoky    0

The base mechanics of the game doesn't fit well with the direction of the game. Developers want that the rockets be part of the main instead of the late game. But keep alive the dupes for longer trips is a hard work, there isn't enough space for all needs.

The main problem is manage oxygen and carbon dioxide. We need pumps to take of all the carbon, also we need batteries to keep it working, they generate heat and occupies an space, if we want to automate it, we need a senser (that also occupies an space). Due by limit space inside rockets, every tile is important.

How this can be improve? Here some solutions:

  1. Wall inside the rockets act like space exposure, but instead of destroy all gas/liquids, only destroy/keep the chosen type of gas. This will help to keep a good atmosphere inside the rocket.
  2. Redesign the pump system, this could be hard, currently, the pumps absorb the gas that surrounds them and only have an output, but gas pump can have a input now, this generate a vacuum gas type (yes, a vacuum type of gas), that move through gas pipe searching for a input gas vent, the vent absorb the gas surrounds them and start follow the path of vacuum tiles in the gas pipes. This will allow to us, use the gas input of the rockets as a gas pump, saving space.
  3. Add more space to rocket interiors, this cam be broken the game in many ways, because we can use rockets as isolated storage, green house or other things. Maybe if the rocket have prebuilding things that couldn't be unconstructed, like beds, bathroom and fridge.

The other problem is the water, have lavatories that consume water, use a water sieve to reuse the water, but still we need more space and energy for this. Adding a small rocket module to purify water could be a great solution. Maybe that what we really need is a life support module that do all of this stuff.

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NeoDeusMachina    720

There have been many posts on that topic and it has been discussed in lengths already. I suggest using the search function to read up about what was already brought up by others and how your ideas can contribute to the topic instead of starting yet another thread about this :-) You will certainly find some similar ideas have been suggested and also some alternative opinions on the rocket mechanics.

 

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Drakoky    0
7 hours ago, NeoDeusMachina said:

There have been many posts on that topic and it has been discussed in lengths already. I suggest using the search function to read up about what was already brought up by others and how your ideas can contribute to the topic instead of starting yet another thread about this :-) You will certainly find some similar ideas have been suggested and also some alternative opinions on the rocket mechanics.

 

I used first, but I only saw one post about this, I think that the search function show me all comments in one post instead of the OP, so my comment could sound off topic. I think that the forum template is not ideal for feedback comments. And if you say "search by title" the content is no always that the title says. I can't search by OP comments, if I search "rocket" it show me all comments that say "rocket" even if is not related.

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NeoDeusMachina    720
3 hours ago, Drakoky said:

I used first, but I only saw one post about this, I think that the search function show me all comments in one post instead of the OP, so my comment could sound off topic. I think that the forum template is not ideal for feedback comments. And if you say "search by title" the content is no always that the title says. I can't search by OP comments, if I search "rocket" it show me all comments that say "rocket" even if is not related.

I agree, the search function is not perfect. I used "rocket" as a keyword and I could find many posts in the first couple of pages of results. Some of them are directly related to rockets in the OP, others start out as more general but eventually the rocket topics is brought in by a forum user. I have linked below a few posts that could be more relevant to you, but there are a lot more that are related to rocket mechanics and improvements in general as well. Hope that helps!

 

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n_t_p    204

The rockets are a good puzzle. I think it's well designed. It's not too hard to solve, it's just hard. It's very much solvable. 

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Drakoky    0
On 7/22/2021 at 12:44 AM, NeoDeusMachina said:

I agree, the search function is not perfect. I used "rocket" as a keyword and I could find many posts in the first couple of pages of results.

Well, it depends on what forum you are looking for., I'm now on "suggestion and feedback", but if you search in the general page you will find a lot of post.

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Drakoky    0
On 7/22/2021 at 11:10 PM, n_t_p said:

The rockets are a good puzzle. I think it's well designed. It's not too hard to solve, it's just hard. It's very much solvable. 

Is a terrible design, increasing the difficult of the game in an artificial way. As I said, the base mechanics of the game doesn't match with the actual DLC, maintain a high morale (temperature, decor, time), keep a live your dupes (oxygen, food, water), 10x8 space is not enough, due by, actual buildings need a lot of space. I know that rocket interior is not a second base, but they need to more easy to manage and understand it.

The space in rocket is not the only problem, the delivering system, the actual storage system, cooling solutions, automatization, make the rockets more difficult to management.

You must already know that the game have a non-existent tutorial, even his internal wiki is lacking of information (unofficial wiki have a lot of more information), learning by test and fail is not the best solution for new players, compare it with Factorio. Before Factorio was also lacking of a tutorial, the game severely punishes that doesn't know its mechanics, but now, it have a good tutorial, even people that doesn't know this kind of game understanding quickly.

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Sasza22    3795
7 hours ago, Drakoky said:

Is a terrible design, increasing the difficult of the game in an artificial way. As I said, the base mechanics of the game doesn't match with the actual DLC, maintain a high morale (temperature, decor, time), keep a live your dupes (oxygen, food, water), 10x8 space is not enough, due by, actual buildings need a lot of space. I know that rocket interior is not a second base, but they need to more easy to manage and understand it.

The dupe doesn`t have to survive there forever. Just for the space mission duration. In essence the dupe just needs food and oxygen, that`s it. No need for high morale when rocket piloting is a tier 1 skill. Just fill it with semi good food and provide a toilet. One minor gripe here is that the dupe might ignore a sink beacause you can`t put the food far enough. I`d like the toilets in space to be more advanced to alleviate that.

7 hours ago, Drakoky said:

The space in rocket is not the only problem, the delivering system, the actual storage system, cooling solutions, automatization, make the rockets more difficult to management.

I have to agree that needs some work but it gets slowly better. I wish we got mini storage modules (1-2 tile height) for small rockets. Anyway we can do some stuff with it already. For example cycling the oxygen through radiant pipes before releasing into the cabin can help with the heat issue.

7 hours ago, Drakoky said:

You must already know that the game have a non-existent tutorial, even his internal wiki is lacking of information (unofficial wiki have a lot of more information), learning by test and fail is not the best solution for new players

The game surely lacks a tutorial for spaceflight but atm the space system keeps getting changed. I`m sure they`ll do a proper tutorial once they are closer to release.

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Drakoky    0
4 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

The dupe doesn`t have to survive there forever. Just for the space mission duration. In essence the dupe just needs food and oxygen, that`s it. No need for high morale when rocket piloting is a tier 1 skill

4 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

I have to agree that needs some work but it gets slowly better. I wish we got mini storage modules (1-2 tile height) for small rockets. Anyway we can do some stuff with it already.

One of my problems with the actual system is that doesn't offer much flexibility design rocket interior, I loved the exploit of breaking the wall, building a minibase inside the rocket, tons of possibilities. I would like if they add more compact stuff for the rocket, the battery module and liquid/gas/cargo inputs/output release space, I really love it.

Other problem is with the storage system, I need 20% of oxilite, the rest is for building, but I don't want 80% of oxilite in my storage, I always need to be supervising the process, this can't be automated (automation system is really basic), you know, send to a mission, back for supplies and resend quickly. they need add more configuration for storage, or wall storage and small(something that doesn't need floor to work). This also apply for the interplanetary delivering system, don't send all my food to other planet just for three dupes.

5 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

For example cycling the oxygen through radiant pipes before releasing into the cabin can help with the heat issue

As a low spec user, this is a pain in the ass, having many pipes cycling around the base, reduce my performance, I used to use mod for reduce my needs of this in the base game.

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NeoDeusMachina    720
6 hours ago, Drakoky said:

One of my problems with the actual system is that doesn't offer much flexibility design rocket interior, I loved the exploit of breaking the wall, building a minibase inside the rocket, tons of possibilities.

To be honest, rockets interior currently offer plenty of flexibility in my opinion. We are still in early access and many people have found different ways of keeping their duplicants alive to various degrees of success and achieving various levels of automation. From reading your different posts, I think what would help you the most overcome your difficulties would be having access to good tutorials or examples on how the different approaches you can take to sustain duplicants during space travel, more than changing how the current rocket mechanics work. The fact that you "liked the exploit of breaking the wall" is somewhat of a concern to me and I am unsure how I can help if this is your preferred playstyle.

Quote

Other problem is with the storage system, I need 20% of oxilite, the rest is for building, but I don't want 80% of oxilite in my storage, I always need to be supervising the process, this can't be automated (automation system is really basic), you know, send to a mission, back for supplies and resend quickly. they need add more configuration for storage, or wall storage and small(something that doesn't need floor to work). This also apply for the interplanetary delivering system, don't send all my food to other planet just for three dupes.

I have personally never relied on algea or oxylite for onboard oxygen because of how difficult it is to make those renewable, and I simply do not like using metal to make oxygen if I can simply use water. It is just too costly for my preference. I only use rocket gas tank and I cool down the oxygen with the polluter water/brine from cold slush/cold salt slush geysers before sending it to the electrolyzers. The results is that I am producing rather cold oxygen (~1-5degC) and that solves two problems: 1) provides oxygen for duplicants, 2) cools down the rocket (and my base..!) over time (no need to worry about cooling). As a bonus, rockets get automatically refilled and CO2 gets "spaced out" when rockets land thanks to the rocket platform loaders/unloaders. It is far from the only solution, but it has always worked very well for me over thousands of cycles. The only time I had to worry about temperature inside my rockets was when I made the mistake of placing the artifact from the magma planet on a pedestal inside my spacefarer module. Even then, the cold O2 was enough to cool down my rocket when it returned to base.

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Whitecold    79

The rockets as challenge to cram everything into a limited space is okay, what is not okay is how difficult it is to get resources in and out of rockets, especially without mixing it with the cargo space of the rocket.

The two things should be separate systems. If I want to get water/air/power in and out of a rocket on the pad, I should not require a tank and a port. Just a direct connection on the capsule, like we have anyway for fuel and liquid oxidizer.

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AndreyKl    218
19 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

I wish we got mini storage modules (1-2 tile height) for small rockets.

While that will be more convenient for some rockets, it won't work as well for rockets meant for automated transport. Life-support specific modules are needed. A tiny one with space for a bit of water (~50kg?) or pwater, space for a bit of oxygen (~25kg?) or co2, a bit of energy (10KJ) and a bit cargo (algae, dirt, oxylite, e t c). A Small (3 wide), Medium and a Large ones as well.

Then an ability to target either normal cargo, LS, engine/fuel or interior/exterior in fittings and loaders.

P.S. Letting fittings access fuel&oxydizer might sound like a bad idea, but there is no reason not to let it as long as rocket is landed, it might simplify refueling or preparing rocket for flight.  

19 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

The dupe doesn`t have to survive there forever.

It's close to forever with periods of brief absence. For fully automated rockets we need hands-free automated Rocket LS. Not the kind we have now.

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Whitecold    79
On 7/28/2021 at 6:02 PM, AndreyKl said:

It's close to forever with periods of brief absence. For fully automated rockets we need hands-free automated Rocket LS. Not the kind we have now.

The alternative would be to have a proper system for crew rotation for the rockets, with the pilots taking some recreational time off to boost their morale and get their shower.

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AndreyKl    218
On 8/3/2021 at 1:05 PM, Whitecold said:

The alternative would be to have a proper system for crew rotation for the rockets, with the pilots taking some recreational time off to boost their morale and get their shower.

Crew isn't the primary issue, temperature, atmosphere e t c are, they need periodic player-service. Ex: automated gas cargo rocket will have issues with oxygen because it will be loading whatever gas is needed, fittings won't work (or will pump through something really hot/cold). 

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Whitecold    79
On 8/3/2021 at 6:57 PM, AndreyKl said:

Crew isn't the primary issue, temperature, atmosphere e t c are, they need periodic service. Ex: automated gas cargo rocket will have issues with oxygen because it will be loading whatever gas is needed, fittings won't work (or will pump through something really hot/cold). 

I was more thinking in terms of morale requirements, but I totally agree cargo should be kept separate from life support.

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