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Ipsquiggle

A Breath of Fresh Air Update - Available Now! - 471618

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Tab1    33
17 minutes ago, egolayer13 said:

Yep, same so far.  I'm only 5 cycles in an I've dropped 15 FPS.

Screenshot from 2021-07-16 06-08-21-fs8.png

KLEI PLZ FIX

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Misato    1

I was under the impression that the ruins could be demolished now, however the Security Doors and Vending Machines are still indestructible. Is this intended?

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Swoop5994    47

i cant help to think that some drivers or some version of unity or something might be off...i mean they are addind a couples change that for most of them in the dlc we had to deal with them when they got out ...check you moves patterns germs...food...gasses that coming from or goin to somewhere...because yeah it its not normal at all how mucg mods do you run and how much backgrounapp your pc have to deal with...virtual memory if your pc is old.....updates from the games still downloading on steam ?? :) ^^ at this point if i were you wanting to play the latest version i would do everything from isolatin the game on it drive and be sure its a m.2 or a ssd then purge windows to basic and delete all history in browser
you know the old flaethrower approach....graphic driver....network...everything....then try to play with easier mode on or off there is a germ multiplication point in the update....seriously there is something wrong i would be curious to see how many win10 services are running for nothing in the back too....well yeah essentially blame everything else and then if there was an error youl end up with a cleaner cmputer lol

u on epicstore ? or linux? mac ect....mods also but depending wich one there are some that are heavier to run

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FutureJohny    44

UGHHH, another base breaking update. Now I have to copy the old version to other folder, run the update, switch steam to offline and put the old version back. And to do that, I have all games switched to "update when launched".

Why can't we have option to download older version like other games allow (Factorio, Kerbal Space Program).

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babba    2409
12 hours ago, ALCRD said:

Regular default map size cause i don't have Spaced Out

A8-6600K (old quad 3.9 Ghz)

Yea my colony is average size and pretty messy and i had 50-60 fps in slow mode and depending where i looked 40-50~ in fast mode. BEFORE this recent update which basically cut the framerates in half.

 This performance loss affects new games too it's much worse than before and few other people with way better CPUs noticed same thing. (I'm keeping track on both forums steam and klei)

I'll upload the save if you are curious it's a messy nearly dying colony anyways.

Sirius Expedition Broken Update.sav 2.48 MB · 1 download

Hello my friend :cheerful:

I took some time took checkout your save file, switched and deactivated the dlc in the game ( premiere for me :ghost: ). Your save runs at maximum fps speed on my i7 7700k , capped at 60fps.

Touch wood that Klei will help all players in terms of performance improvements :cold:

BTW love your little world, very nice :x:encouragement: Thank your for sharing.

image.thumb.png.444f5c71f2b0f99a1928fa44d4184e42.pngimage.thumb.png.9ea6868bd07de68e42a35d08bb0d5383.png

@Ipsquiggle Very small starter worlds and small other asteroids would be great for players, to help players with struggling fps :p Keep the performance improvements coming :distracted:

----------------------------------------------------

FYI babba`s basic pre-Fukoshima starter world last started dlc savegame attached ( no reactors...yet ! )

The last recent Stalin wave got rid of the too-many-for-now, to have more game speed - Runs here at 30 fps. Chopped it down from +300 dupes to 75 currently. Its still a basic world after 150 hours or so, still " a bit more messy than usual". Plutonium would be great to have in the game, even if its just standing around in ( leaking ) barrels. :congratulatory: Seems I saved the game with a total power blackout in the base :lol:

fresh.png

image.thumb.png.19af3d24ef23d7e593072d82e7bb64f5.png Sleeping at the wind tunnels ( Balloon ! )

fresh.sav

Edited by babba
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I do have to wonder why there is a performance drop for older CPU's on a LAUNCHED game. Is the update to unity 2020.3 causing this?

You can't just expect people accept that. I agree a roll back for those people atleast as a temporary fix should be an option. The changes in the update list are significant updates, but nowhere close to being worth a potential performance penalty.

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ALCRD    2781
45 minutes ago, babba said:

Hello my friend :cheerful:

I took some time took checkout your save file, switched and deactivated the dlc in the game ( premiere for me :ghost: ). Your save runs at maximum fps speed on my i7 7700k , capped at 60fps.

Touch wood that Klei will help all players in terms of performance improvements :cold:

BTW love your little world, very nice :x:encouragement: Thank your for sharing.

image.thumb.png.444f5c71f2b0f99a1928fa44d4184e42.pngimage.thumb.png.9ea6868bd07de68e42a35d08bb0d5383.png

Yep it's depressing for me that i need a Cyberpunk 2077 PC now to handle a small colony like this with 60 fps in slow mode like before the update :<

Edited by ALCRD

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babba    2409
7 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

Yep it's depressing for me that i need a Cyberpunk 2077 PC to handle a small colony like this with 60 fps like before :<

Klei could perhaps implement smaller starter worlds for aged cpu`s. Map sizes can help a lot, when they launched the game they immediately scaled down the maps ( by factor 4 or so, can`t remember ) because the initial map size was just too much for cpu`s. With the dlc code update map(s) stuff and things may be loaded which you actually cant see ( yet ) as a player, so that can take a toll.

I really do hope you can play the game with similar fps as before, up to Klei to help you :encouragement:

Edited by babba

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Just now, babba said:

Klei could perhaps implement smaller starter worlds for aged cpu`s. Map sizes can help a lot, when they launched the game they immediately scaled down the maps ( by factor 4 or so, can`t remember ) because the initial map size was just too much for cpu`s. With the dlc code update things maps stuff may be loaded which you actually cant see ( yet ), so that can take a toll.

I really do hope you can play the game with similar fps as before, up to Klei to help you :encouragement:

But why. He had a smooth gaming experience on his old cpu yesterday before the update. Why then compromise further? I remember them scaling the maps down too - during early access when the game was still in development, not after the launch- but to me that would be not acceptable on a launched game.

Of course, there are games out there that increased system requirements over the years. WoW comes to mind. However, those game with very significant updates that did justify that. Nothing on the update list justifies that performance hit. They are all point for point very good changes, but nothing in there justifies a performance hit.

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ALCRD    2781
1 minute ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

But why. He had a smooth gaming experience on his old cpu yesterday before the update. Why then compromise further?

Exactly. If this never gets fixed i will have no choice but to try the steam rollback and block any future updates...

Which is thing i will only wish to do as last resort since i never done this before.

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babba    2409
12 minutes ago, ToiDiaeRaRIsuOy said:

But why. He had a smooth gaming experience on his old cpu yesterday before the update. Why then compromise further?

I think it was the overall ambition and Klei projects planning to have the game run in a reworked (bigger) map system with the DLC ( multiple asteroids & star map implementation ). I find they normally follow the forums well + they want to sell the game to the masses and want to keep players happy. So, if they can take the time to find technical solutions - They will hopefully work further on fps improvements for everyone. :ghost:

I had a look, I only saw simple starter worlds in the base game world generation menu - Looks for me like current work in progress and ( hopefully ) a currently development vacuum time frame for base game save file players which are used to their previous fps game speeds.

At least the base game content is more or less now in the DLC, that is what I really like - Was waiting for half a year :p FPS has always been an topic for me, since the ONI beginning. To some degree it will always be for Factorio/ONi and such title players, if one wants to do mega lots. Small colonies need to run always great, no question.

Edited by babba

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ALCRD    2781

To clarify i don't have the DLC. I'm talking about the base game.

The asteroid size was not changed after the update. Performance on same asteroid size however was changed for base game after recent update .. drastically.

Edited by ALCRD

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babba    2409
5 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

To clarify i don't have the DLC i'm talking about the base game.

The asteroid size was not changed after the update. Performance on same asteroid size however was changed .. drastically.

Map technology has changed in the base game, its just not knowledge for typical players - Klei needs to take care and make it great for you again. :)

Edited by babba

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Orzelek    67
47 minutes ago, babba said:

Map technology has changed in the base game, its just not knowledge for typical players - Klei needs to take care and make it great for you again. :)

From posts above it seems quite.. harsh.
Was base game really that much faster?

I haven't noticed stuff but I do small dupe count bases and have a 5800X so wouldn't notice it on small bases. It sounds concerning tho.

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Swoop5994    47
41 minutes ago, babba said:

Map technology has changed in the base game, its just not knowledge for typical players - Klei needs to take care and make it great for you again. :)

youre right but im pretty sure there is alot more going on under the hood things that are affecting the base game now that went down in the updates behind the construction of spaced out...some things are affecting all the engine some are about germs...A.I...food...and almost even every single systems expect this to be coming to the end and be optimize when they update. sure thing is all we see here are poeple in base game affected by the performance of what the base engine is added. i think it wont last if it cant handle the changed or it will be optimized...you are missing quite a ride on the Dlc for 15 bucks let met tell you

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ALCRD    2781

I see people on Steam forums being very critical regarding the DLC and the changes from the dlc being forced down their throats. (Among quite few people there complaining about horrid performance after the patch)

And i agree with them for the most part. If i wanted to play the DLC and have it's features in the base game i would buy the darn DLC. "Not broken don't fix"

However that matters little atm compared to the more pressing issue that i currently have with this game. You guessed it - the horrible performance after last patch.

Unwanted and downright punishing (not talking about the food storage change, there's more than that) game mechanic and feature changes are just salt on the wound at this point.

Edited by ALCRD
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Magheat2009    100
52 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

Unwanted and downright punishing (not talking about the food storage change, there's more than that) game mechanic and feature changes are just salt on the wound at this point.

I feel your frustration regarding the performance hit. I for one really like all the changes introduced in this update. If "not broken don't fix" ideology was followed, you will only have average games and not gems like ONI. It is not the philosphy which yeilds amazing results. However, I agree there needs to be a simpler way to rollback, opt-out of an update. Its sad to have a game one really loves to get locked behind hardware they cannot afford. Maybe we are just over-reacting due to fear that it might not be fixed. Most probably a hotfix is on the way as I type. 

Edited by Magheat2009
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babba    2409

With the old base game it used to be possible to simply define a map size for the player in a game file, which was great for min to high spec cpu`s....Making it possible to easily play on tiny or giant maps.

Klei added great technical and game design "Biomes", where the players actual map gets nowadays combined from lots of various maps and map generation stuff ( +asteroid colonies/rocket interior stuff and such ), resulting in a new really big map total and combined map size - Which most players do not notice as they begin to play, except that their fps can drop a lot. "One can not see what is invisible, one can not see what is not happening"...but certain map stuff, in for the player invisible map areas, is calculated and considered and drags the game speed down.

I have no clue how all the maps in the game files technically interact with each other, some things can be simple edited with a text editor...Other game files seems to be scrambled up since the dlc.

Maybe one could find a mod on Steam which actually makes players play a true small base game map :confused: ...So without the game calculating and considering invisible map stuff and the game not combing lots of maps stuff and files, which you don`t actually see happening in your game ( at least if your in the early game or if Klei has not locked those things away for non-dlc owners ).

If someone knows some kind of mod which basically pops out the map for the player in, as example, real "hardcoded" 256x256 tiles and nothing else for the cpu to compute map wise :confused::confused::confused: Such a mod generated/controlled map should run fast on lots of systems, if not buggy or Klei updates code ``

With such a "Fixed size tile map mod" anybody could play on maximum mega speed, for example on a true 64x64 mini map.

For those eager to play, such a hard coded map generator mod, or for those which want to play with 1000% more fps...That could be a solution. Is there such a mod on Steam :confused:

--------------------------

Update: Posted this "Fixed size hardcoded map mod" and/or map information request in the mod section here.

Edited by babba

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ALCRD    2781

I'm not following you. I don't get how this supposed to work or what's the purpose of that mapping when the asteroid size is still the same? Nothing has changed with the actual size of the map you play on in base game.

This seems like something only people who own Spaced Out would benefit from since they have multipile colonies on same save.

 

Don't take this the wrong way but some citation from dev would be nice cause it sounds made up..

Edited by ALCRD

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babba    2409
7 minutes ago, ALCRD said:

I'm not following you. I don't get how this supposed to work or what's the purpose of that mapping when the asteroid size is still the same? Nothing has changed with the actual size of the map you play on in base game.

This seems like something only people who own Spaced Out would benefit from since they have multipile colonies on same save.

Some citation from dev would be nice cause it sounds made up..

There is some good threads in the forum on how the new map generation works and what is actually technically going on with the new map technical system for the entire game. If you believe its all a Fata Morgana, well, that is invisble too :lol: But I understand your view, you see no difference to before as you play the game, besides your lower fps.

In public the devs will most likely not respond on how their systems work, they are working heavy on sorting it out. One can compare the game files how the used to be with the old base game ( before your update and/or save file migration ) and with the new base game map files, it is in your save file directory.

The last time it took me ages to dig up the forumistas which have posted their great insight on the new map technology, one needs to dig deep in the forum...

Edited by babba

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ALCRD    2781

Any specific thread that actually explains how this work and if so why was it implemented into the base game where there are no benefits of having such system since there are no multipile colonies or multi asteroids on same playthroughs and never will be outside the DLC as stated by Klei.

Preferably a thread that is written by someone who actually worked on the game.

EDIT:

I take with heavy grain of salt when someone who isn't in any way associated with the dev team talks about inner workings of said game especially if it's about content that was released is fairly recent.

And from the looks of it there is absolutely no reason to have this implemented for people who just have the base game and don't own the dlc. Then again like i said "with grain of salt"

It may turn out the FPS issue is caused by something completely different and the map generation stuff was never implemented into the base game and is only in the realms of the DLC where it actually has a reason to exist since SO! has multi colonies and multi asteroids.

Edited by ALCRD

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egolayer13    14
2 hours ago, ALCRD said:

I see people on Steam forums being very critical regarding the DLC and the changes from the dlc being forced down their throats. (Among quite few people there complaining about horrid performance after the patch)

And i agree with them for the most part. If i wanted to play the DLC and have it's features in the base game i would buy the darn DLC. "Not broken don't fix"

However that matters little atm compared to the more pressing issue that i currently have with this game. You guessed it - the horrible performance after last patch.

Unwanted and downright punishing (not talking about the food storage change, there's more than that) game mechanic and feature changes are just salt on the wound at this point.

I actually don't mind the tangible changes.  I always found the CO2 food pit to be a little bit exploitative, so making refrigeration meaningful is a good idea.  The air purifiers requiring power is a pain for pre-existing bases, but it makes logical sense and they didn't make them exorbitantly expensive power-wise.  I haven't had time to experience the debuffs from chlorine and hydrogen yet, but it will definitely change the way I play.  Honestly, once you've played for long enough, a few extra challenges are totally welcome.  My only concern is being able to sustain a reasonably sized base at 30+ FPS.  Anything under 30 is a really painful experience.

Edited by egolayer13
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ALCRD    2781

Don't forget about the Solar Panel change and shenanigans with the Heavy Watt wire and panels overheating.

To name the few annoying changes.

But yes you are right my main concern is the framerate changes like these can be modded out or adapted to.

Eye strains caused by such low framerate on top of game going into slow motion every few moments when in fast mode (how ironic) is definitely no good if one wants to enjoy the game :(

 

Edited by ALCRD

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babba    2409

@ALCRD If you are interested in playing with fast(er) fps now, I can recommend these options - My intention is to help you:

> Check if there is a working mod on Steam, which makes it possible to play on a reduced true map tile size. You can count the amount of tiles your map currently has by excavating and counting the tiles by hovering over each cell with your mouse, by using the sandbox editor or by investigating/modifying game files ( complicated ). However, due to technical changes the cell amount your see/count in your map may not be the true total cell size of your map ( due to technical changes ).

> Wait for updates from Klei

> Upgrade your computer

Steak time now for me :congratulatory:

Edited by babba

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ALCRD    2781

Again like i said in the edit the FPS drop might be completely unrelated to that so called invisible "map calculation change" that doesn't even have a reason to be in the base game without the DLC - which utilizes such system.

Edited by ALCRD

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