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Soulwind

I need Uranium to invent Soda Pop? Really?

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Soulwind    312

So, I've been away for awhile and have just come back to ONI with the new DLC stuff.  I'm enjoying most of the changes, but the Tech Tree is way out of whack (imo).

Way too many mid-game items are locked behind radiation research.  I mean, do I really need an atomic reactor running (to produce radiation, to produce rad bolts, to power the research station) in order to understand Carbonation or Coffee?

I would consider anything to do with radiation to be a late-game tech and there are just too many things locked behind materials research that just shouldn't be there.  Again, imo.

On a side note:  anyone have any tips on how to handle the radiation stuff?  I'm on the "classic big world" start, and haven't found anything to make radiation with yet.  Admittedly, I haven't explored a huge amount of the map yet (just all the surrounding territory near the base), but I'm done with all possible research that doesn't require radiation or space travel and am feeling pretty stuck.

 

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Electroely    4822
15 minutes ago, Soulwind said:

Way too many mid-game items are locked behind radiation research.  I mean, do I really need an atomic reactor running (to produce radiation, to produce rad bolts, to power the research station) in order to understand Carbonation or Coffee?

I would consider anything to do with radiation to be a late-game tech and there are just too many things locked behind materials research that just shouldn't be there.  Again, imo.

Materials Study research isn't really a late-game thing. It's more mid-game if anything; ranching shine bugs or planting a handful of wheezeworts next to each other will suffice for the most of the research you need.

The research reactor is only necessary for really high consumption - things like the Diamond Press, for example. It generates a lot of heat that can be used for power, and that power can be used for radbolts off its relatively high ambient radiation. (Also, you need radbolts to even unlock the reactor)

I don't really mind it - I think it adds a bit more to the progression instead of allowing you to power through all the research with just worldgen dirt and water. My only real complaint is that the automation is finnicky, but even then I've come up with setups to largely remedy that.

  

15 minutes ago, Soulwind said:

On a side note:  anyone have any tips on how to handle the radiation stuff?  I'm on the "classic big world" start, and haven't found anything to make radiation with yet.  Admittedly, I haven't explored a huge amount of the map yet (just all the surrounding territory near the base), but I'm done with all possible research that doesn't require radiation or space travel and am feeling pretty stuck.

Wheezeworts are a particularly simple source of radiation, and they're easily sustainable if you plant them with pips (which doesn't reduce their output) or have a drecko ranch. Here's my setup:

 

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The radbolt generator fires 200 radbolts twice a cycle. If I notice it underwhelming or overwhelming the research stations, I adjust accordingly. I find multiple statiosn only really necessary for later research, though - You just need one station with 50 radbolts in it to unlock some useful technologies.

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Soulwind    312

OK, wait.  Shinebugs and Wheezeworts put out radiation?  I did not notice that at all.  Hmm, I normally don't bother with bugs and I tend to leave the worts in the frozen zones unless I really need them.  Seems I'm going to have to rethink my base plans.

 

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Electroely    4822
1 minute ago, Soulwind said:

OK, wait.  Shinebugs and Wheezeworts put out radiation?  I did not notice that at all.  Hmm, I normally don't bother with bugs and I tend to leave the worts in the frozen zones unless I really need them.  Seems I'm going to have to rethink my base plans.

 

Yeah, they emit radiation. Shine bugs are weaker than Wheezeworts, but the fact that they don't take up physical space lets you have more of them in one spot for better radbolt production. If you're really patient, you can use radiation from outer space, though it'll take over 2 cycles of 480W power consumption to get 50 radbolts into a study terminal.

I've edited my post to show the setup I use for materials study.

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Coolthulhu    1259
1 hour ago, Electroely said:

Yeah, they emit radiation. Shine bugs are weaker than Wheezeworts, but the fact that they don't take up physical space lets you have more of them in one spot for better radbolt production.

You need "exploity" designs to get sensible amount of radiation from them, though.

Trying to do it in a room that counts as a stable is pointless, they need to be confined to one spot with a liquid lock or similar.

Kinda funny how Klei seemed to envision shinebugs as useful mobile lights, but they are only ever useful when not mobile.

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blakemw    138
6 hours ago, Electroely said:

If you're really patient, you can use radiation from outer space, though it'll take over 2 cycles of 480W power consumption to get 50 radbolts into a study terminal.

Or you can combine the space radiation and worts, since worts are perfectly happy living in vacuum, the contribution from cosmic radiation isn't very large in comparison to a couple of worts, but it is free and being in vacuum/space exposure does have other efficiency benefits as there is nothing to attenuate radiation/radbolts.

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another option for radiation is nuclear waste which can be made by colliding radbolts

- if you super compress (using airflow tiles as walls) nuclear waste you can get an arbitrarily large amount of radiation

methods of supercompressing

- exploit the bug were nuclear waste likes to leak out of plumbing

- freeze the nuclear waste, stockpile in the chamber then heat it up

- have the radbolt collusions occur inside the chamber

methods for getting radbolts out of this

- some radiation will leak out of the chamber

- take advantage that radbolts can travel in diagonals while liquids can't 

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ghkbrew    633
2 hours ago, blakemw said:

Or you can combine the space radiation and worts, since worts are perfectly happy living in vacuum, the contribution from cosmic radiation isn't very large in comparison to a couple of worts, but it is free and being in vacuum/space exposure does have other efficiency benefits as there is nothing to attenuate radiation/radbolts.

I prefer to use keep my worts in a vacuum, but out of space. The reason being it's handy to be able to completely turn off the radiation  (using planters on mechanized doors). If there is 0 rads on the generators it will stop drawing power, but won't lose any radbolts like if you to cut its power.

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blakemw    138
6 hours ago, ghkbrew said:

I prefer to use keep my worts in a vacuum, but out of space. The reason being it's handy to be able to completely turn off the radiation  (using planters on mechanized doors). If there is 0 rads on the generators it will stop drawing power, but won't lose any radbolts like if you to cut its power.

I used to do that but now I'm too lazy. I always forget to turn it back on or I forget to turn it off and power isn't hard to make. Now I just chain the Materials Lab with an Interplanetary Launcher to absorb the surplus bolts, so then my Launcher is always charged if I need to send some emergency supplies or use it frivolously.

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aderae    9

Material research is pretty mid game stuff.

 

This is "my way" of doing this. If you are on classic terra start wheezworts are pretty easy to find. I also use them to cool my oxygen so it's a powerless win-win. Automation is pretty simple a cycle timer & duplicatant sensor that detects if a researcher is there and shoots a bolt every X seconds (currently set to 40 seconds, depends on your researcher's speed). Obviously this is not optimised in any way but I already have more than 20k so who cares. As a bonus I am also trying to mutate plants with the radiation but so far I got nothing.

Screenshot 2021-06-25 at 11.10.02.png

Screenshot 2021-06-25 at 11.10.25.png

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fritozipper    50

Joseph Priestley invented carbonated water in 1767 (using radiation I assume), radiation of course not being discoved till 1896 this was quite an achievement for him. 

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Nebbie    434

That tech needing materials science research is fine in and of itself, but I think the soda fountain should be moved to an earlier tech. From a realism/sanity perspective, it shouldn't be on par with the molecular forge, and from a gameplay perspective, it being a science booster should come relatively early as an option to power through difficult research, not late when it's superfluous.

In general, the buildings meant to give dupes beverages are something I usually ignore, because of how they come so late in the tech tree and have rather large requirements. The juicer is worse, because now you literally can't make it work without first grabbing something from another planet...just to make juice (why can't we make 1 of 3 juices, as opposed to a mix?)

Now, where materials science is more questionable is in inventing solar panels. That one just seems like it's meant to force us to figure out the radiation system in the middle of getting a power solution, and it really doesn't balance solar like it's meant to, because it's still rushable.

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mukca    5
3 hours ago, SchlauFuchs said:

Sorry, my cyrillic isn't that strong - what is your source of radiation bottom left?

beeta

 

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