SamLogan

Food conservation : vacuum is overpowered

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Nebbie    434
On 5/28/2021 at 3:22 PM, spkthed said:

I HOPE YOU ALL ARE HAPPY.

:D

Mostly, but fridges are still annoying to use (power consumption plus not protecting food from random polluted oxygen) and building freezer rooms is a chore. We're in the home stretch now, though, on getting to sane food preservation.

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Dargarin    2
Quote

You know bacteria can't survive a vacuum, right?


Erm... they literally can...

Edited by Dargarin

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aderae    9

I think this topic is totally over-engineered both by players and Klei in general. Making quality food is already a mid-late game feature that requires you to solve each part from growing to temperature management & automatisation. This freezing mechanic is just a hassle and in the end I always end up having 3-4 powered fridges in co2 and totally ignore this. Who cares if some food is spoilt where you already have 5 million grub fruit preserve. Just current powered fridges for early-mid game (where you also don't care about spoilage much) and introduce a more power consuming (optionally with bigger storage) fridge with chlorine vent input for late game storage and done. This way we would finally have a use for chlorine as well.

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gabberworld    262
56 minutes ago, aderae said:

Who cares if some food is spoilt where you already have 5 million grub fruit preserve.

yeah thats true and as it spoil in 32 cycles , there no much worry about

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Gurgel    2767
7 hours ago, aderae said:

I think this topic is totally over-engineered both by players and Klei in general. Making quality food is already a mid-late game feature that requires you to solve each part from growing to temperature management & automatisation. This freezing mechanic is just a hassle and in the end I always end up having 3-4 powered fridges in co2 and totally ignore this. Who cares if some food is spoilt where you already have 5 million grub fruit preserve. Just current powered fridges for early-mid game (where you also don't care about spoilage much) and introduce a more power consuming (optionally with bigger storage) fridge with chlorine vent input for late game storage and done. This way we would finally have a use for chlorine as well.

I agree. I just recently built a larger freezer to -25C and it was _easy_. Food stops degrading as soon as it is in there, before it is cold enough. Energy need is low once you have it all cooled down. This is a minor thing and having a high-capacity freezer building late in the research tree would be completely appropriate.

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blakemw    127

I feel that food preservation is in a good place right now. CO2 pit freezers are a fairly easy and satisfying build and give a reason for Thermo Regulator to exist. Pickled Meal lice, Grubfruit Preserve and Berry Sludge are decent solutions for spaceflight: maybe Berry Sludge is OP as it completely bypasses food preservation, one solution might be to have it not care about temperature but still decay due to atmosphere.

Fridge uses too much power IMO, I literally never power it. Would be better if it only used 60 W, then on a spaceship a single solar panel could power the fridge. I also feel that a powered Fridge should upgrade atmosphere quality by one level, i.e. turning Polluted to Normal and Normal to Sterile.

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Kazper    1

ONI keeps going in the wrong direction. Constantly taking the input of the "exploit" crowd trying to make everything more tedious and boring by only having one "right" way to play. It doesn't become more difficult - just so much more tedious to have to micromanage one more step (freezing), and it limits even more the kind of interesting bases you can build as you have to follow yet another rule limiting your creativity.

I love this game. I've played over 1000 hours in it according to my Steam profile, but it has gone steeply downhill the past 6 months as I increasingly find it's just a grind to adjust my playing to yet another "exploit" being "fixed" and forcing me to play the way someone else wants instead of what I want.

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Sasza22    3579
44 minutes ago, Kazper said:

only having one "right" way to play

Except that`s not the case with the food system. Previously there was one way: putting food in CO2 chlorine or vacuum. Fridges were cosidered useless and wasteful. Now you have multiple ways to preserve food - fridges use less power and can store stuff for really long time (pickled meal can survive 333 cycles in a fridge in CO2).

You can still store it forever but do you really need? Yes there are some QoL things still missing like dupes eating the food closer to spoiling but overall the new system is more engaging than just a simple CO2 pit as the solution to everything.

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NeoDeusMachina    438
On 7/13/2021 at 11:51 AM, blakemw said:

Fridge uses too much power IMO, I literally never power it. Would be better if it only used 60 W, then on a spaceship a single solar panel could power the fridge. I also feel that a powered Fridge should upgrade atmosphere quality by one level, i.e. turning Polluted to Normal and Normal to Sterile.

Fridges now enter energy saver mode, using only 40W 20W once the food has been cooled down. They are now worth using and powering up I believe. They are a rather cheap early game solution to food preservation - build them in a CO2 pit and you'll see that food spoils so slowly that it barely even matters.

Edited by NeoDeusMachina
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Orzelek    31
3 hours ago, NeoDeusMachina said:

Fridges now enter energy saver mode, using only 40W once the food has been cooled down. They are now worth using and powering up I believe. They are a rather cheap early game solution to food preservation - build them in a CO2 pit and you'll see that food spoils so slowly that it barely even matters.

Power saver mode is 20W and reduced heat generation.

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Morfeo    41

I like the "real" system

If you freeze something, you destroy the water inside of it, I mean the atom of water got a differente state and the other moleculars break down: then you add conservant of any kind, pre-cooking and so on to prevent this factor, still a food from a freezer taste different from the same food fresh
(try vegetables for example) 

I don't want this kind of details in game sure, but would be great force the player to use object instead of exploit of any kind

like a system as so: 

the fridge is great and when it reach a fine temperature, use less current (like a real one). <-- good choice for a player

when a product freeze instead should be less nutrient but still good (just to give a player a choice to use different biomes and temperature)  <-- the food decays within more cycles but lose some kcal

if I put food in an ambient with germs, should be spoil (bacteria eats and destroy some nutrient)  faster. <-- bad choice (ps: chlorine is toxic and food exchange molecules with ambient)

if I put food in a "clean" ambient, oxygen will destroy food with time (oxidation an so on, this is why vacuum packing exist) 

if I put in vacuum, well, it's clean but it will spoil anyway, more time but not the same as a freezing one.

a food must spoil in every occasion, too hot? will destroy it, too cold? same, good temperature or vacuum? it's a better condition but it will spoil no matter what, you can and you must find the better solution for storaging food and prevent for the longest time the spoiling, but it will occurs anyway.

the kcal should be change using this factor of "history" of the food. If a perhaps freeze a muckroot, then bring it on a 30°C zone, then freeze again, then eat it, it can't be the same as a fresh one.

 

there is something I would like to have anyway, a cleaning station for food, I drop it? it's dirty now.
I use unclean water? it's dirty.

I use a dirty dupes? the food it's dirty too.
Will be awesome have a way to "clean it" even if it cost too much.

 

This is my 2 cent about food conservation, please don't mind some grammatical errors, I'm italian and my english is not so good
 

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SVV    25
13 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Previously there was one way: putting food in CO2 chlorine or vacuum. Fridges were cosidered useless and wasteful.

I think it is not about fridges being useless and wasteful, but people being weak-willed. I have two doctors, so one could heal another. They produce vitamin chews as top priority. When I mine slime I flood entire biome and mine slime under water. Algae distiller is built right above water, so dups can't drop slime anywhere except water. I have more pilots than rockets, sometimes I replace pilots so they don't have to live the rest of theirs lives in rockets. I don't disable incubators to save power... I could continue but point is I see my actions being much more useless and wasteful than fridges. Yet I have absolutely no problems to commit them.
I think the fact that massive demands were to nerf CO2 pits(very few wanted to leave it as is and only buff fridges) and after that demands to nerf vacuum(to use food temperature) proves my point. Loud people do not want variety, they want to force others play the way they see as right.
I have no problems with exploits in single player games which requires explicit actions to use them. Like drop sand on flower pot, make pip plant seed there, copy settings to other pots to get a lot of plants that do not need solid fertilizer. I stopped using wheezeworts when they started to use phosphorite, but I use them again now with this exploit. Putting food in CO2 pit is explicit.

Why, for example, not power fridges in CO2 pit and imagine that it is required to preserve food?

Edited by SVV

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cpy    543

Real game killer is low FPS. Food system is finally providing some challenge and berry sludge is now really useful for spacetrips.

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KonfigSys    214
On 7/27/2021 at 12:45 AM, SVV said:

I think it is not about fridges being useless and wasteful, but people being weak-willed. I have two doctors, so one could heal another. They produce vitamin chews as top priority. When I mine slime I flood entire biome and mine slime under water. Algae distiller is built right above water, so dups can't drop slime anywhere except water. I have more pilots than rockets, sometimes I replace pilots so they don't have to live the rest of theirs lives in rockets. I don't disable incubators to save power... I could continue but point is I see my actions being much more useless and wasteful than fridges. Yet I have absolutely no problems to commit them.
I think the fact that massive demands were to nerf CO2 pits(very few wanted to leave it as is and only buff fridges) and after that demands to nerf vacuum(to use food temperature) proves my point. Loud people do not want variety, they want to force others play the way they see as right.
I have no problems with exploits in single player games which requires explicit actions to use them. Like drop sand on flower pot, make pip plant seed there, copy settings to other pots to get a lot of plants that do not need solid fertilizer. I stopped using wheezeworts when they started to use phosphorite, but I use them again now with this exploit. Putting food in CO2 pit is explicit.

Why, for example, not power fridges in CO2 pit and imagine that it is required to preserve food?

I do not agree with you only on one:

it was not massive demand especially about vacuum but loud for sure. 

If to follow a logic why a working fridge should depend on the air it is in. A good thing is that Klei counterbalanced it with lowering power demand and powered fridges become widely usable.

My space crew definitely lost - a wide variety of food like tasty barbeque was replaced with this berry sponge.

Also I have a strange feeling that all that calculation for food in vacuum and its temperature lowers FPS. Like you have moo-s at the chlorine planet. When they die, the meat drops to the surface in vacuum and then the temperature calculation starts. So when you collect the meat you see a different spoilage percent. 

Before, all food is in a cold pit or in CO2 or vacuum (almost for all players) and no calculation of spoilage is done. 

Now, the algorithm is to check the temperature and air in the tile which may frequently change (oxygen, polluted oxygen, Co2) and now it has to calculate two spoilage parameters and make status change. I do not care how realistic is one way or another; what I have noticed is that more people starting complaining about significant FPS drop. If it is related or not I do not know.

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