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Hokaeru

What makes ONI fun for you and ideas

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Hokaeru    133
Quote

And of course, we've made many fixes and improvements based on your feedback! We're still focused on improvements and quality of life, so there's never a better time to let us know how this DLC is working for you. Thank you for all your discussions and reports, and keep them coming!

Hello everyone, 

As title suggests, this topic is for you to state how you are playing the game, what makes it fun, what makes it not so fun, and perhaps you could say your opinion about what things are unbalanced. Please share your thioughts !

I can start if you want :)
1. What makes ONI fun :
I love building things, setting up contraptions, automating them and having multiple ways to find sustainability. The DLC is perfect for that because you have several bases, get to use all tiers of technology. To me, the old rocketry system felt just grindy and long, like "I know how to do this, but this will take 20 hours to do so". Now you can really go to these planets and find the stuff, building even more to extract it and get it to the right temperature. I love dupes, trying to make them do the least possible so they don't mess it up, starting from a space gulag to a luxury palace.
2. What is less fun :
Some systems that require a lot of micromanagement can be less fun sometimes, if they can't be automated ( yes, you rocket trips, i'm glad that there is ) / work well without player interaction (yes, you atmosuits). I do not refer to the good old "duplicant entombed by digging", this never fails to make me laugh and is part of the game.
3. Ideas :
Some materials still are not renewable, even if in great quantities (slime/algea, uranium, graphite, rust...) and prevent the choice of system you want to use. I know some things will still be "better" than others, but I would love to have the choice to run one base on rust deoxidizers for instance. As far as uranium is concerned, the reactor does seem a little out of place at the moment : to me it produces small amount of radiation and alot of heat and problems. It seems just a fun thing, but not a core to the atomic program. 
The moo planet does not seem to be "working" at the moment, there is not enough chlorine or light.

Another thing, the old rocketry system pushed toward liquefaction of H2 and O2, which is not the case anymore. I would have hoped that the hydrogen rocket would be more powerful than the petroleum one. 

P.S. : This DLC is great, thank you the dev team for bringing this, making one of my favourite games even better !
Also something I'm thinking about but perhaps deserves a topic : I don't know if money is a limitation at the moment, for the ONI team, but I would pay to support you for small "DLC" like you guys do for don't starve together : cosmetics, recreationnal, or music.

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pether    1033
18 minutes ago, Hokaeru said:

I love building things, setting up contraptions, automating them and having multiple ways to find sustainability.

On that topic I would love to see a way to send automation signals between asteroids so my system knew when to enable Interplanar Payload Launcher

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babba    1946
1 hour ago, Hokaeru said:

...

Some materials still are not renewable, even if in great quantities (slime/algea, uranium, graphite, rust...) and prevent the choice of system you want to use.

Great post :encouragement: I have highlighted what is the most important for me, in red color above. :bee:

The lack of Algea/Slime renewables is how long an issue now in the game ? 2 years ? I hope Klei makes your mentioned resources renewable, in whatever form and way.

I love industry, so as usually please also implement an industrial method, next to critter methods. Perhaps the lack of these renewables could be the opportunity for Klei to invent a completely new method of getting a stream of those resources as renewables in to the game. :p

BTW Regolith/Meteors :confused::hopelessness::confused:

image.png.530939cfaaa58e7dcd461bdcd25d59dc.png

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solo6490    28
2 hours ago, pether said:

On that topic I would love to see a way to send automation signals between asteroids so my system knew when to enable Interplanar Payload Launcher

You can.  In the DLC,  The towers used to sense meteors in the base game got converted to automation signal towers between asteroids.

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Red Oolong    36

To me, the funnest thing about this game is having two problems solve each other. Like if you have too much hot coolant from the refinery and not enough power generation, you can run the coolant through a steam turbine and have the heat problem help solve the power problem. I also really enjoy the early to mid game, so I like that in the DLC you get to basically do a new game+ of the early game whenever you reach a new planet.

 

The least fun part for me at least is oxygen generation. For something in the title of the game, it seems odd that there is really only one late game option to make it, namely running water to an electrolyzer. If we got even one more option, say a renewable source of rust or a way to break down CO2 into carbon and oxygen, it would make that system much more interesting to me.

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Magheat2009    83
26 minutes ago, solo6490 said:

The towers used to sense meteors in the base game got converted to automation signal towers between asteroids.

Do you mean you can fire a random payload to signal things between asteroids?

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cpy    543

Lags. I hate lags. The only thing that can stop me from playing ONI for a long time are lags. I build and build and build game lags and I ragequit for few big patches and try again.

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pether    1033
1 hour ago, solo6490 said:

You can.  In the DLC,  The towers used to sense meteors in the base game got converted to automation signal towers between asteroids.

Are you talking about "Interplanar Automation" mod? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2361374172

You could guess I am aware of the mod's existance, but this doesn't change the fact that this feature is needed in the game ;)

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solo6490    28

I think your right lol. I remember the warp conduit didn't do it at all but I thought the scanner was part of the new DLC and not the mod. but it should be a base feature regardless (like the pliers mod...cough cough)

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Gurgel    2767

1. Fully agree

2. Also fully agree. My end-goal is to have everything repetitive automatized. The DLC has not quite reached that, I think, but it will.

3. Completely agree. I think in the end-game, everything should be renewable and without insane contraptions (abyssalite melter, for example). (No disrespect intended to the "insane contraptions" crowd!)

For me, the DLC is different from what I expected, but in no way a disappointment, decidedly the opposite. I think ONI, and more so ONI with the DLC is already a classic and it will inspire game-developers for a long, long time and rightfully so. 

 

P.S.: This thread shows why I love this forum. Somebody with not a lot of posts writes something thoughtful and insightful and everybody just considers it on merit. That is what sophistication looks like. Does not give me hope for the human race in general, but there is a sub-set I would like very much to meet again in my next reincarnation cycle.

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crbd115    330
8 hours ago, Hokaeru said:

I know some things will still be "better" than others, but I would love to have the choice to run one base on rust deoxidizers for instance.

Yes I have been saying this for so long. I think part of the issue (aside from the fact that rust isnt renewable currently) is that the assumed resource that we need to be the most renewable is water. Which in turn makes the electrolyzer the main option for O2. Water is typically used for our food, O2, and oil. Which means we need a lot of it. If other sources of O2 were renewable I could see there being less need for having two guaranteed water geysers on every starting planetoid. Just because I find it kinda boring that the cycle is basically early game O2 source then electrolyzer. I think it would be cool if we had a way to grow algae, rusty dreckos, or a plant that consumed iron and made rust. Alternatively maybe a critter that makes O2 somehow?

6 hours ago, Lacero said:

slime is renewable through pufts isn't it?  and so algae is too

Yes and no, The amount you get from them is so small that its not really useful. Then the only real renewable sources of po2 in the dlc rn is polluted water off-gassing or morbs (unless you get lucky in classic mode and get a po2 vent). Off-gassing polluted water set ups isn't something I personally have messed with much. From what I have seen of other peoples posts on here, it ends up being a lot of effort for little pay off and morbs have a similar issue. Then you need a ton of pufts to even get a reasonable amount of slime/algae. With the amount you need of both it ends up just lagging your game so most of the time people don't bother.

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NewWorldDan    184
8 hours ago, Hokaeru said:

(slime/algea, uranium, graphite, rust...)

Slime is renewable - feed PO2 to pufts.  Algae from the distiller.  

Graphite - I believe Klei has a plan for this akin to the Resin Rooster.  It's just not complete yet. 

Rust - I'm ok with this being non-renewable.  It's a temporary oxygen source for the early game.  I use the rust only because it produces iron ore as a byproduct.

Uranium - this should be renewable somehow.  I'm hoping they eventually introduce an enrichment reactor for recycling depleted uranium back into uranium ore.  

 

What makes it fun?  Mostly the challenge of survival.  The DLC threw a lot of new challenges at me.  Building a viable colony with no renewable sources of water.  But, I did it.  I want to see more unique and challenging pathways to sustainability, temperature management, sources of materials.  I want to be thrown into a hostile environment and have to use my creativity to engineer a thriving colony.  At this point, I've logged so many hours into the game, there just isn't that much left for me to do.  But this DLC has certainly extended my love of the game.

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pether    1033
7 minutes ago, NewWorldDan said:

Rust - I'm ok with this being non-renewable.  It's a temporary oxygen source for the early game. 

Yeah, but it opens another issue there - only one late game oxygen source...

It would be cool if we had another way of late-game oxygen production. It might be renewable rust for example. Or something totally different

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CheeseGromit    12

Building and problem solving are what I enjoy about the game. Unfortunately the busier work and life get the less time and patience I have. Which leads to one of my main dislikes which is fiddly or unintuitive mechanics / solutions.

I definitely agree around micromanagement. I want to be able to put it as many long term automated solutions as possible so I can move on to other things. There's lots of minor things I wish I could do, a simple example being 'cook until you have X'.

The DLC has introduced a lot of interesting stuff. Some of it feels a bit forced in terms of how it interacts with the base game. As a basic example, I've always researched faster than I use the tech. With the DLC I hit barriers with radiation and orbital research long before I've got solutions to these. Some of this will be experience and planning needed on my part but I wonder if there is a way to make it feel like it flows more naturally.

I'm definitely guilty of not exploring early enough but that is largely because I want a relatively stable solution on my first planet before moving on. I like to explore when I want to and not because I'm missing something I need. Maintaining multiple bases early on isn't something I particularly enjoy.

My biggest like of the DLC is probably the smaller planets. I can achieve things early the I otherwise would have. I do wish I had more control over the make up of the planets as part of game set-up.

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SamLogan    1129

I play ONI for this kind of funny situation :

What I prefer in Spaced Out, the exploration and the discovering of the new asteroid, when you launch on the surface with only one Duplicant and you have to survive alone.

The expansion have a lot of content to come (see the datamining post) so I wait before make conclusion, but I'm impatient to see the late game.

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minespatch    88513
2 hours ago, SamLogan said:

I play ONI for this kind of funny situation :

Sorry for being off topic but that thumbnail is beautiful art.:wilson_shocked:

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goboking    2064
18 hours ago, crbd115 said:

Which in turn makes the electrolyzer the main option for O2. Water is typically used for our food, O2, and oil. Which means we need a lot of it. If other sources of O2 were renewable I could see there being less need for having two guaranteed water geysers on every starting planetoid. Just because I find it kinda boring that the cycle is basically early game O2 source then electrolyzer. I think it would be cool if we had a way to grow algae, rusty dreckos, or a plant that consumed iron and made rust. Alternatively maybe a critter that makes O2 somehow?

It's a shame the Saturn Critter Trap produces hydrogen instead of oxygen.

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crbd115    330
1 hour ago, goboking said:

It's a shame the Saturn Critter Trap produces hydrogen instead of oxygen.

I actually like that it produces hydrogen so we now have 3 ways of producing it. A plant, a critter, and a machine.

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Sasza22    3579
7 hours ago, crbd115 said:

I actually like that it produces hydrogen so we now have 3 ways of producing it. A plant, a critter, and a machine.

They really wanted to adress the lategame issue of overproducing oxygen when making a liquid hydrogen engine setup. Butthen they added the radbolt engine that replaced it as endgame propulsion.

Anyway on topic:
I have the most fun when i deal with crisises that eventually come (mostly due to my own mistakes). I like the FTL esque feel when stuff is going down and i need to react fast.
I also like the sense of improvement. When i replace the simple earlygame setups with more advanced mid and lategame machinery requiring more room, pipes etc.

What i don`t like is the stagnation i often encounter - at some point i tend to hit a wall where it takes forever to do anything and there isn`t much that could be done about it without redesigning everything i made already. Then i feel like startng over. I wish there was more things you could improve like making super advanced floors and ladders out of steel or visco gel that double dupe movment speeds and other ways to improve the basic things that are costly but give you nice boosts.

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JahwsUF    51
On 5/14/2021 at 5:41 PM, Hokaeru said:

I love building things, setting up contraptions, automating them and having multiple ways to find sustainability. The DLC is perfect for that because you have several bases, get to use all tiers of technology. To me, the old rocketry system felt just grindy and long, like "I know how to do this, but this will take 20 hours to do so". Now you can really go to these planets and find the stuff, building even more to extract it and get it to the right temperature. I love dupes, trying to make them do the least possible so they don't mess it up, starting from a space gulag to a luxury palace.

I definitely agree.  One of the biggest things I appreciate about this game is that you can eventually reach full automation for some of the 'systems' in the game, freeing up "mind space" to worry about other things.  Also, before that, you can often reach near-stable solutions that require very minimal maintenance.  In either case, these 'solutions' tend to scale well without much need for direct intervention.

With Spaced Out, we're now asked to do that multiple times in different settings.  Reaching Water/Oxygen sustainability on the Oil asteroid will naturally look quite different than the Forest / Uranium asteroid, and both are different from the starting asteroid.

I'll admit that I prefer the new Terra-style start, as the lack of in-world Lime on the starter world is less of an issue when Gold Ore is available for high temp uses.  I don't like heavy multi-tasking for long stretches, so I like getting my first base near-stable before settling the second asteroid.  (For me, this means getting an Aquatuner setup for Cool Steam Vent capture in place and converting to water-based Oxygen production before branching out, along with the pumps needed to drive the system and refine the required metals.)  I like how it's possible to reach a semi-stable state without exploration, which greatly reduces my personal stress as I move on to tackle a new area in order to reach a better solution down the road.

On 5/14/2021 at 5:41 PM, Hokaeru said:

To me, the old rocketry system felt just grindy and long, like "I know how to do this, but this will take 20 hours to do so". Now you can really go to these planets and find the stuff, building even more to extract it and get it to the right temperature. I love dupes, trying to make them do the least possible so they don't mess it up, starting from a space gulag to a luxury palace.

I definitely prefer the new rocketry system and how it changes game progression for more and more advanced resources.  You have to branch out (through the teleporter) to find Oil, then again (via rocketry) to find Uranium / the crashed satellite for better Radbolt production.  After that, it's a search to find the three planetoids with advanced industry resources - one a piece.  (Or the Moo Moonlet, if you want that sweet Nat Gas. I don't judge.)

On 5/14/2021 at 5:41 PM, Hokaeru said:

Some systems that require a lot of micromanagement can be less fun sometimes, if they can't be automated ( yes, you rocket trips, i'm glad that there is ) / work well without player interaction (yes, you atmosuits). I do not refer to the good old "duplicant entombed by digging", this never fails to make me laugh and is part of the game.

For me, such systems include:

  • Early game ranching can be relatively high maintenance.  It takes about 1k refined metal for me to build a nice, self-managing ranch for a set 6 critters, at least with my usual design.
    • Then again, it's probably partly my own fault - it definitely takes longer when you 100% avoid using the Rock Crusher for metal refinement.
    • I could use unpowered Incubators to safeguard eggs, but even then, I think that's 400 refined metal... and it's impossible to set a "domesticated eggs only" option.  (I like leaving wildlife 'wild' once my ranches are up and running, so ensuring the 'right' eggs are used is high maintenance.)
    • Especially when there are higher-priority items on the Refined Metal to-do list.

But don't include:

  • Atmosuit, etc management.  Just build one extra suit and leave the 'worn out' recipe on repeat.
On 5/14/2021 at 5:41 PM, Hokaeru said:

Some materials still are not renewable, even if in great quantities (slime/algea, uranium, graphite, rust...) and prevent the choice of system you want to use. I know some things will still be "better" than others, but I would love to have the choice to run one base on rust deoxidizers for instance. As far as uranium is concerned, the reactor does seem a little out of place at the moment : to me it produces small amount of radiation and alot of heat and problems. It seems just a fun thing, but not a core to the atomic program. 

While I know we don't have the ability to go "infinite" with rust deoxidizers, I definitely appreciate the fact that we at least have one extra choice past Electrolyzers for long-term oxygen production.  I'm so happy they added the Sublimation Station; when used with the output of an Ethanol loop (Arbor Trees -> Ethanol -> Petroleum Generator, with the P Water sustaining the trees), all that Polluted Dirt can be rapidly converted into Oxygen and viably sustain a good number of Duplicants.

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