Scypham

Eye of the Storm Lore and Them [An analysis of the new beta's lore and the new information on Them]

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LinknAllie    843

I haven't seen anyone talk about this yet but Wormwood's line for the Enlighted Crown is a bit strange.  He usually says "Night ball" when something even remotely relates the the moon.

image.png.1f68f82f1b59eed275e0f35d9180fb2e.png

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HowlVoid    2535
1 hour ago, LinknAllie said:

I haven't seen anyone talk about this yet but Wormwood's line for the Enlighted Crown is a bit strange.  He usually says "Night ball" when something even remotely relates the the moon.

image.png.1f68f82f1b59eed275e0f35d9180fb2e.png

I made a theory that "Them" might include the moon....

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WebberMain    221
23 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

I made a theory that "Them" might include the moon....

Maybe he is talking about the whispers Alter/Moon seems to produce

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HowlVoid    2535
7 minutes ago, WebberMain said:

Maybe he is talking about the whispers Alter/Moon seems to produce

He refers to it as Them which is the term used for the hidden entity.

The drop is a moon item

To me it implies alter is one of them. At this point alter/the moon are interchangeable to me.

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Aeglefire    180

I can't help but notice, if you rearrange the letters in "Alter" to form a new word, you get "Real t", and then adding in the two letters "i" and "y" you get: "Reality". :wilson_curious:

Like "Enlightenment = reality" vs the upcoming battle against "Nightmares = dreams and fantasy".

I think I'm in the rabbit hole too deep. :o 

Edited by Aeglefire
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WebberMain    221
10 hours ago, HowlVoid said:

He refers to it as Them which is the term used for the hidden entity.

The drop is a moon item

To me it implies alter is one of them. At this point alter/the moon are interchangeable to me.

Nope,if this would be the case,the T would be capital,thus Them.The devs pay attention to the T when they want to imply Them.I believe this is intentional.

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Zeklo    19939
16 hours ago, WebberMain said:

Nope,if this would be the case,the T would be capital,thus Them.The devs pay attention to the T when they want to imply Them.I believe this is intentional.

I was going to correct Howl on this as well, but Wormwood makes it a bit tricky. I don't disagree necessarily, but do wanna point out:

A - Wormwood's capitalization is weird in general.

B - Unlike most who refer to 'Them' (ie. Maxwell, Fuelweaver, etc) Wormwood probably isn't actually familiar with 'Them'. So he may be referring to 'Them' without realizing.

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HowlVoid    2535
On 4/28/2021 at 5:50 PM, Zeklo said:

I was going to correct Howl on this as well, but Wormwood makes it a bit tricky. I don't disagree necessarily, but do wanna point out:

A - Wormwood's capitalization is weird in general.

B - Unlike most who refer to 'Them' (ie. Maxwell, Fuelweaver, etc) Wormwood probably isn't actually familiar with 'Them'. So he may be referring to 'Them' without realizing.

And now? Am I right? Or am I right?

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WebberMain    221
4 hours ago, Zeklo said:

I don't think any information we currently have will answer that. The 'they' in question here is undoubtedly the Moon. The characters have been hearing it since assembling the Celestial Pillars & the Gestalts. That's easy enough to piece together.

We still lack confirmation on who 'They' (capital) are, so there's no factual conclusion yet.
Are 'They' Metheus? Alter? Both? Neither? 

Maybe we'll get a confirmed answer next week.

Metheus being Them?A pawn being the player?I don´t really think so.We are Charlies pawns,and she is Their pawn(if Metheus possesed Charlie of course).I so badly need the next update to be shadow (Them) focused.
#teamshadows

Edited by WebberMain
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minespatch    85659

I get the feeling that Charlie isn't a villain, just one of many antagonists. Who knows what Klei is planning.

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GelatinousCube    792
1 minute ago, minespatch said:

I get the feeling that Charlie isn't a villain, just one of many antagonists. Who knows what Klei is planning.

Really hope we save her from the throne eventually (and unlock her as a player) and a new antagonist takes over - Them.

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WebberMain    221
4 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

Really hope we save her from the throne eventually (and unlock her as a player) and a new antagonist takes over - Them.

The shadows or the moon?The term Them seems confusing as of lately

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minespatch    85659
6 minutes ago, WebberMain said:

The shadows or the moon?The term Them seems confusing as of lately

Please Klei, maybe just drop a hard definition for us. :wilson_ecstatic:

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GelatinousCube    792
9 minutes ago, WebberMain said:

The shadows or the moon?The term Them seems confusing as of lately

Whoever Them is! I have no clue who Them are at the moment..

I had always thought it was some group of powerful entities that exist across multiple worlds (Forge, Gorge, Constant etc) that were the cause of the Ancients downfall, Pugna's downfall and the cause of the Gorge world's calamity (Is the Gnaw one of Them?) and are also the main driving primordial forces behind these twisted worlds. They somehow influence whoever is on the Nightmare Throne.

Now though I have no clue if Alter is one of them or what they are. Eagerly awaiting more lore tidbits that give us a bit more of an idea.

 

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WebberMain    221
Just now, GelatinousCube said:

Whoever Them is! I have no clue who Them are at the moment..

I had always thought it was some group of powerful entities that exist across multiple worlds (Forge, Gorge, Constant etc) that were the cause of the Ancients downfall, Pugna's downfall and the cause of the Gorge world's calamity (Is the Gnaw one of Them?) and are also the main driving primordial forces behind these twisted worlds. They somehow influence whoever is on the Nightmare Throne.

Now though I have no clue if Alter is one of them or what they are. Eagerly awaiting more lore tidbits that give us a bit more of an idea.

 

I always assumed Them are Shadows,"The Moon" is Alter and gnaw is just that gigantic wormhole

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I think They are both shadow and moon, so They is litterally meant as a plural. In the same sense, in greek mythology there are two Metheuses, Epimetheus, "god" of hindsight and Prometheus, "god" of foresight so it may just be that both Metheuses are Them or more cofusingly worded Metheus are Them (or at least part of Them)

Edited by Plagezeichen
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GelatinousCube    792
3 minutes ago, WebberMain said:

I always assumed Them are Shadows,"The Moon" is Alter and gnaw is just that gigantic wormhole

I've never agreed with the Them = Shadow creatures idea. Shadow Creatures to me are the twisted remnants of the ancients after their civilisation fell and their souls (or whatever) were corrupted/tainted by nightmare fuel or Them.

There is just so much importance and emphasis placed on Them and their influence within the constant so I feel like it would be weird for them to just be the shadow creatures we kill on the regular.

At the moment I am thinking that Alter and Gnaw are both members of Them and they are just giant nasty entities that feed off/influence the worlds they inhabit.

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WebberMain    221
2 minutes ago, GelatinousCube said:

I've never agreed with the Them = Shadow creatures idea. Shadow Creatures to me are the twisted remnants of the ancients after their civilisation fell and their souls (or whatever) were corrupted/tainted by nightmare fuel or Them.

There is just so much importance and emphasis placed on Them and their influence within the constant so I feel like it would be weird for them to just be the shadow creatures we kill on the regular.

At the moment I am thinking that Alter and Gnaw are both members of Them and they are just giant nasty entities that feed off/influence the worlds they inhabit.

Sorry for the misunderstanding,i meant Shadows as the Shadow gods(The Eye from the gateway)

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Zeklo    19939
1 hour ago, WebberMain said:

Metheus being Them?A pawn being the player?I don´t really think so.We are Charlies pawns,and she is Their pawn(if Metheus possesed Charlie of course).I so badly need the next update to be shadow (Them) focused.
#teamshadows

The players are anyone's pawns really. Most characters don't know squat about the bigger picture. 
Wagstaff used us pretty well in this update.

I'm not so sure on Charlie being "Their" pawn though. If I'm to guess, "They" have been out of the picture for a while. The shadowified Ancients (Shadow Creatures) and shadowified Ancient Throne (Nightmare Throne) have been running most of the show up until now. Skip to the present and now we got Charlie (potentially merged with the Ancient Torch Bearer) trying to reawakening these higher beings we know as "Them".

That's how I see it at least.

Edited by Zeklo
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WebberMain    221
4 minutes ago, Zeklo said:

The players are anyone's pawns really. Most characters don't know squat about the bigger picture. 
Wagstaff used us pretty well in this update.

I'm not so sure on Charlie being "Their" pawn though. If I'm to guess, "They" have been out of the picture for a while. The shadowified Ancients (Shadow Creatures) and shadowified Ancient Throne (Nightmare Throne) have been running most of the show up until now. Skip to the present and now we got Charlie (potentially merged with the Ancient Torch Bearer) trying to reawakening these higher beings we know as "Them".

That's how I see it at least.

Why can´t we just get the answer straight from the source?
@Mr.Skitts Tell us something about your masters!

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Tim S.    301

Now that we know the "Moon" is fake, does the Sun harbor secrets too? 

Looking back, we were actually quite well-informed about the nature of the moon..
("The cave provides sanctuary from the "moon's" prying eyes." - Maxwell, inspecting Moon Dial in Caves)
(" "Moon" detritus." - Maxwell, inspecting Moon Glass)

We don't have any suspicious remarks about the sun, as far as I'm aware..

If there is an Alter-like shadow force, I always thought it was inside of the earth, below the caves, judging from parallels between celestial fissures and nightmare lights+obelisks..

I thought it's stupid how the Ancients would escape from the moons "prying eyes" and travel underground, just to build a Gateway to the moon/the Eye and sap energy from it. Also i found it weird, how the murals depicted the Eye pitch-black with a thulecite-colored iris, if Alter is obviously white and they definitely had white paint. Unless of course Alter changes color when he's awake, but you get where I'm coming from.

Spoiler

PortalEye.png.9093c0ff0b5451eb7846824b3a9d12b7.pngDarkeye.png.b979edcf79e858768a3c943fee0822fd.png

Not quite Alters color-scheme

Also it seemed weird how the claws of the depicted dark energy (even before the Gateways meltdown) were coming out of the ground, not from above

Shadowhand.png.85964a91730268cf7676a3e7cece6252.png

 

So I assumed the Archive-Ancients were sapping Alter-Energy and Knowledge through the portal, but sealed it and turned away from lunar-worshipping when they realized the consequences of Alter waking up. Following that, I thought they repeated the same mistakes the elders made and sapped energy from another source, this time the weird dark Eye from inside the constants core (?). Afterwards everything came crashing down, the shadow-eye stayed awake (which is why shadows lurk everywhere and there's still an open eye above the king, even after the Gateway was destroyed).

The sun doesn't fit in there at all. In no way.
Even the Shadow Chesspieces get strong enough to materialize during the New Moon, not during the day. Maxwells quote "The... "moon"... has retreated for now." regarding New-Moon-Moondials explain the shadow figures rise in power.

BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SUN

SO

WHY

IS

THERE

A SUN IN THE METHEUS PUZZLE GATEWAY?????

 

 

Sun.png.0624d7b4e1b7f16945f2bcf279d0b872.png186270528_AncientSun.png.7c43acae177d72eb80e8f51259499e67.png

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