Double F

DST Solo and Together Tier List !

Recommended Posts

ArubaroBeefalo    7925
1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

I've never really understood the justification of the meta to be honest Wolfgang does deal 2x damage but catapults or followers will always out place him in boss fights in the long run. He doesn't offer anything to the team that others can't replace and his greatest feat is people claiming another character's perk as his own. I feel like the only reason he retains his best character status is because people like to box in the requirements for being the best in a way suits him. For example

-assuming people only fight bosses once

-assuming all servers end by winter

-assuming an entire server will only rely on Wolfgang for bossing and that he will give away spoils.

The output of wolfgang compared with the cost is so good. He can also use followers 

I share your opinion that he isnt the best for coop (more players, less noticeable is wolfg) but still being one of the best characters, too much stats for so low cost

1 minute ago, hot focaccia said:

webber should be higher because he the best boy

He is actually very good at farming and fighting non aoe enemies

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RoughCactus69    343
On 4/1/2021 at 3:11 AM, Roodmas said:

You're saying that until you have a Wurt teammate who creates a merm army of 40 ;D She's farming all the logs and stone for me, defeats bee queen in about 2 minutes, and the list goes on. We're about to do a ruins clear with the merms as well, we'll see how smoothly that goes :D:D

You even said in one of you post that you.....

 

"solo bosses all of the time with Woody." 

 

Just because you can be a very effective Wurt player, doesn't mean she is a good character, it just means you are. I don't see how in my right mind how Wurt is above Wigfrid on Together. She honestly shouldn't be ranked that high in the first place. But, opinions are opinions. 

 

Sincerely, 

Cactus

2 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

He is actually very good at farming and fighting non aoe enemies (Webber)

What NON AOE enemies will you be needing to farm? Wendy is the best for that. IMO Wendy outshines Webber in almost every way except "Spider go follow".

Edited by RoughCactus69

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ArubaroBeefalo    7925
25 minutes ago, RoughCactus69 said:

What NON AOE enemies will you be needing to farm? Wendy is the best for that. IMO Wendy outshines Webber in almost every way except "Spider go follow".

dragonfly, beequeen, treeguards, spiderqueens, vargs, ewecus, ancient guardian, non rook clockworks, etc, etc

ofc, wendy is so danm op but that a chacter is op doesnt make useless the others. Wolfgang does x2 damage but that doesnt mean that wigfrid is useless. Wurt can hire merms but that doesnt mean that you cant hire pigs with wilson to farm logs. Maybe some players enjoy playing as weeber more than using wendy and opigail

things arent black or white

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Double F    4
3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

I've never really understood the justification of the meta to be honest Wolfgang does deal 2x damage but catapults or followers will always out place him in boss fights in the long run. He doesn't offer anything to the team that others can't replace and his greatest feat is people claiming another character's perk as his own. I feel like the only reason he retains his best character status is because people like to box in the requirements for being the best in a way suits him. For example

-assuming people only fight bosses once

-assuming all servers end by winter

-assuming an entire server will only rely on Wolfgang for bossing and that he will give away spoils.

By late game every character has reliable easy/farmable ways to deal with bosses, Wulfgang is the best because he allows you to skip a good chunk of preparation when facing bosses early on. Its easier to get 300 hunger than to set up 30 catapults for example. Also his move speed and tankiness helps a lot to get things going and is sanity perks allow him to do early nightmare fuel farming. If all worlds are endless and you have gather all the resources at your desposal it dosent realy matter what character you are, the game is over by that point.

1 hour ago, RoughCactus69 said:

You even said in one of you post that you.....

 

"solo bosses all of the time with Woody." 

 

Just because you can be a very effective Wurt player, doesn't mean she is a good character, it just means you are. I don't see how in my right mind how Wurt is above Wigfrid on Together. She honestly shouldn't be ranked that high in the first place. But, opinions are opinions. 

 

Sincerely, 

Cactus

What NON AOE enemies will you be needing to farm? Wendy is the best for that. IMO Wendy outshines Webber in almost every way except "Spider go follow".

Wendy does outshine Webber in almoast everyway. Webber only advantages is she can start farming spider and silk much faster then Wendy, but by the time Wendy gets her first spider egg, the run is over

45 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

dragonfly, beequeen, treeguards, spiderqueens, vargs, ewecus, ancient guardian, non rook clockworks, etc, etc

ofc, wendy is so danm op but that a chacter is op doesnt make useless the others. Wolfgang does x2 damage but that doesnt mean that wigfrid is useless. Wurt can hire merms but that doesnt mean that you cant hire pigs with wilson to farm logs. Maybe some players enjoy playing as weeber more than using wendy and opigail

things arent black or white

Sure but "Enjoying" is different from being best or worse, you can enjoy playing Webber more than you do Wendy, dosent change the fact Wendy is superior to Webber.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Roodmas    36
5 hours ago, RoughCactus69 said:

You even said in one of you post that you.....

 

"solo bosses all of the time with Woody." 

 

Just because you can be a very effective Wurt player, doesn't mean she is a good character, it just means you are. I don't see how in my right mind how Wurt is above Wigfrid on Together. She honestly shouldn't be ranked that high in the first place. But, opinions are opinions. 

I actually said I solo bosses with Wormwood, but besides the point.

So in one of your sentences you say that Wurt is only good because I am good. By this logic you can say that to any character. Maybe someone has troubles being effective with Wickerbottom, but it doesn't mean that Wickerbottom is a bad character, it just means that she's in bad hands. Or someone does an amazing solo Wes run, but that just means that the player is a good player in general. So, by your logic, there is no point making a tier list, because every character is as good as the player who uses them. But THEN you're telling us how you think some characters should be ranked.

By the way, I did not put Wurt above anyone in my comment, what I replied to is someone saying that she's only good at showing people where tentacles are, which is ridiculous.

And as good as I might be in general at this game, I'm almost sure I can't create a merm army with any character but Wurt. So I think this particular character and her abilities actually have a lot to do with the effectiveness of my gameplay with her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mysterious box    528
18 hours ago, Double F said:

By late game every character has reliable easy/farmable ways to deal with bosses, Wulfgang is the best because he allows you to skip a good chunk of preparation when facing bosses early on. Its easier to get 300 hunger than to set up 30 catapults for example. Also his move speed and tankiness helps a lot to get things going and is sanity perks allow him to do early nightmare fuel farming. If all worlds are endless and you have gather all the resources at your desposal it dosent realy matter what character you are

Here's my problem with this the prep work for that can be done before the end of the first season so the only perfect world where Wolfgang still outdoes it is assuming is if you end the server before the end of the first winter but at that point what's even the point of doing the boss fights. While it's said Wolfgang skips prep he doesn't have access to anything others don't aside from stat modifications so at the end of the day while it'll be abit slower the other characters can also "skip" the prep work.

Early fuel farming can be done by anyone due to wormholes existing. He's fast but he's not the fastest early game character anymore. I'm not denying he's a very good character with perks that work well together but as the roster has evolved I feel like he's beginning to be oversold.

His hp is more so a safety net that can be replaced with skill/healing and there are better tanks than him.

Edited by Mysterious box

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BeeClops    1021
2 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

His hp is more so a safety net that can be replaced with skill/healing and there are better tanks than him.

dps is what makes a good tank, killing the enemy the fastest, not high hp, because as you point out, healing is trivial in general. I'm just curios what are the better tanks? I could understand a Wigfrid argument, even tho I disagree, but who else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ArubaroBeefalo    7925
1 minute ago, BeeClops said:

dps is what makes a good tank, killing the enemy the fastest, not high hp, because as you point out, healing is trivial in general. I'm just curios what are the better tanks? I could understand a Wigfrid argument, even tho I disagree, but who else?

wx tanks more with his absurd stats but takes also longer to kill

i dont really get the tank role in this game

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GenomeSquirrel    1031
1 hour ago, Friendly Grass said:

I don't really get the idea of roles in this game

In short, Woody does wood better than most characters, and Wendy murders mobs better than most characters; the faster, higher production gives time to do useful things they don’t specialize in. More resources is more better, and time is precious.

The counterpoint is that every character can create a surplus of resources, and there’s no way to beat the game, so overachieving is ultimately hollow, particularly in pubs were you know that world is disappearing soon after you leave.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RoughCactus69    343
On 4/5/2021 at 11:26 AM, ArubaroBeefalo said:

things arent black or white

Never said you couldn't use him, or that you shouldn't. If you enjoy playing him, go ahead. 

Just as you said, I play Wigfrid over Wolfgang. Sure, Wolfgang by definition is better. I just prefer Wigfrid. Saying this both Wendy and Wolfgang are better characters, yet you can play what you want.

 

Sincerely,

Cactus

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Friendly Grass    161

There are so many ways to do things in this game that I don’t see how characters can have specific roles. In fact, it could even be taken a step further that characters don’t have significant advantages. If you’re arguing over efficiency I’d say there are few characters more time efficient than non-character specific options like beefalo taming, fire farms, and bearger. Character choice simply provides more options and play styles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GenomeSquirrel    1031
31 minutes ago, Friendly Grass said:

There are so many ways to do things in this game that I don’t see how characters can have specific roles. In fact, it could even be taken a step further that characters don’t have significant advantages. If you’re arguing over efficiency I’d say there are few characters more time efficient than non-character specific options like beefalo taming, fire farms, and bearger. Character choice simply provides more options and play styles.

Fire farms aren’t built day 1, you need tons of rocks, a lot of ice, gears, your choice of item to burn. While gathering the materials you also need to eat. Wolfgang being able to move faster, hit harder, and having higher stats; can do every part of that better than Wilson.

Bearger get will cut trees, but only after you lived a year, which is essentially after you beat the game, the game is mostly done getter harder or throwing new things at you. Wood is useful long before he spawns, it could make your fire farm better for example.

I’ll admit beefalo were improved after I lost most of my interest in the game, and I don’t know how much they even things out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Masked Koopa    15

As a wurt main, lemme clarify a bit of stuff.

First up, she's generally better than maxwell at gathering so long as you think about your actions from the moment you spawn in. 20-30 reeds will often be enough to get you started, and after that all you need is a fishing rod to get your merm army started. Unlike maxwell, wurt doesn't have to sacrifice HP to be able to have consistent followers, and the only thing it costs resource wise is seeds. The ONLY utility maxwell has over wurt when it comes to resource gathering is the first 5 days or so, and the ability to shovel things. Merms are just as consistent as shadow workers, and surpassing maxwell's chopping speed can be done very quickly if you don't insist on merm guards and just go for regular merms. 

King of the merms is a little irritating to get set up initially due to the kelp requirement, but once you do, wurt gets the same effective health stat as wigfrid, with the best hunger stat in the entire game in terms of time spent without eating (3.33 days, longer than even fully upgraded WX) and a higher sanity stat (for what it's worth). And the king is NOT hard to keep up once you have the tapestry. Even while starving it takes a LONG time for him to actually die, and getting a new one is super cheap. 

Speaking of maxwell, the fish sanity perk is SUPER underrated. While the sanity boost isn't too huge, 3.3 sanity per minute can make avoiding sanity loss incredibly easy, and the fish is easily obtained and lasts for a long time. Not to mention, she can turn off the regenration, something maxwell cannot do. 

Perhaps her best perk, however, is the ability to ignore cold after the first summer. Being able to keep an ocean sunfish in your inventory for 4/5 days allows you to run around the overworld with nothing but a lantern without any danger of cold, while still getting the free sanity regeneration mentioned before. The ice bream is also super useful, although summer makes it only last 3 days, so you'll have to cycle your fish a little more often. 

There's also the fact that if you're playing with friends, you're the only character who has very little use for the eyebrella. While wetness does still make you cold during the first spring (meaning a thermal in your backpack will be needed), you can still fight at 100% effectiveness, while keeping both your body and head slots free for whatever you see fit. No sanity loss. No tool slipping. And once you have a sunfish, no freezing. Not even wormwood can ignore the main threat of spring that thoroughly.

In terms of long-term solo play, it's also worth pointing out that she has extremely cheap roads in the form of marsh turf. The give the exact same speed boost, but are incredibly cheap. Not to mention the swamp becomes the perfect arena for any boss where speed is of importance, giving you much more freedom than a road-based arena could. Being able to have a 360 degree speed boost for the first deerclops can make things super practical. 

She ALSO has the ability to let Webber and Wortox ignore bunnymen with the use of the clever disguise, making caves a bit less annoying, as well as providing both of them the option to hire a superior version of pigs if they so choose, effectively nullifying one of their downsides. You could also argue that it would allow them to set up a fully automatic spiderfarm, but merm guards are also just objectively better than bunnies, as unlike bunnies, merms won't attack you if you pick up meat, and don't run away when low.

Finally, she also has the single best sanity management in the entire game if she is playing with a wicker. For only 2 NM fuel and 2 papyrus, you can get 165 sanity on demand in the form of sleepytime stories. If you can afford it, you also have 250 instant sanity using 1 tentacle spot and 2 papryrus, giving you enough to go from 0 to full and then some, even with the king of the merms active. 2 eggs and 2 papyrus give you less overall sanity that sleepytime stories at only 150 overall, but it applies it 50 at a time, so it can be a faster and cheaper alternative if needed. It's not quite as fast as using greencaps or cactus, but it's also nonperishable and much easier to amass. 

Wurt has a LOT of upsides, with the only significant downside being an inability to eat meat - which isn't a downside if playing with friends, but can actually make a massive difference if joining random/public games, since emergency food is not exactly plentiful during winter if you never set up a farm. Other than that, it's really just a matter of her upsides requiring a little time investment. But it's worth noting that most of them are useful in their incomplete form - 3 mermhouses will still let you obliterate forests even before you set up a proper colony, and you also start with leaky shacks in the swamp. The swamp itself can still be traversed fast even if you're not setting up roads, you still have free sanity gain from freshwater fish even if you don't have your thermal fish yet, you still only need heat to deal with rain, etc.

I'd put her high A tier for early game, and easy S tier for long term, both singleplayer and multiplayer. She's not amazing in early combat, but no worse than any other non wig/wendy/wolf character either, so on that scale she would be C tier, and B tier once she gets access to her 250 hp. Her utility is next to none once you know what she is capable of.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ArubaroBeefalo    7925
4 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

the fish sanity perk is SUPER underrated.

Totally. Is the most confortable character to play in long terms. Just keep a torch fish/ice fish in your inventory and rotate it when they are about to die. No need of eyebrella for spring, neither thermal stones in winter/summer with the problem of having to charge them

You can even go to the caves in winter or spring for long having a bundle filled with fishes

And also they give sanity which is good when you are building

4 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

is a fishing rod

Not even needed. Hire merms from the swamp, make them chop to get board for the merm houses and them command them to kill each other 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Masked Koopa    15
1 hour ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Not even needed. Hire merms from the swamp, make them chop to get board for the merm houses and them command them to kill each other 

I don't really like making them kill each other when it's not needed, makes me feel like a filthy webber main. :^)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ArubaroBeefalo    7925
15 minutes ago, Friendly Grass said:

But that not help make mermfolk strong, florp

You have to break some eggs to make an omelette:twisted:

Edited by ArubaroBeefalo
  • Sad 1
  • Potato Cup 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Double F    4
On 4/7/2021 at 4:28 PM, GenomeSquirrel said:

Fire farms aren’t built day 1, you need tons of rocks, a lot of ice, gears, your choice of item to burn. While gathering the materials you also need to eat. Wolfgang being able to move faster, hit harder, and having higher stats; can do every part of that better than Wilson.

Bearger get will cut trees, but only after you lived a year, which is essentially after you beat the game, the game is mostly done getter harder or throwing new things at you. Wood is useful long before he spawns, it could make your fire farm better for example.

I’ll admit beefalo were improved after I lost most of my interest in the game, and I don’t know how much they even things out.

Fire farms aren’t built day 1, you need tons of rocks, a lot of ice, gears, your choice of item to burn. While gathering the materials you also need to eat. Wolfgang being able to move faster, hit harder, and having higher stats; can do every part of that better than Wilson.

This is preaty much it 

On 4/8/2021 at 7:55 AM, Masked Koopa said:

As a wurt main, lemme clarify a bit of stuff.

First up, she's generally better than maxwell at gathering so long as you think about your actions from the moment you spawn in. 20-30 reeds will often be enough to get you started, and after that all you need is a fishing rod to get your merm army started. Unlike maxwell, wurt doesn't have to sacrifice HP to be able to have consistent followers, and the only thing it costs resource wise is seeds. The ONLY utility maxwell has over wurt when it comes to resource gathering is the first 5 days or so, and the ability to shovel things. Merms are just as consistent as shadow workers, and surpassing maxwell's chopping speed can be done very quickly if you don't insist on merm guards and just go for regular merms. 

King of the merms is a little irritating to get set up initially due to the kelp requirement, but once you do, wurt gets the same effective health stat as wigfrid, with the best hunger stat in the entire game in terms of time spent without eating (3.33 days, longer than even fully upgraded WX) and a higher sanity stat (for what it's worth). And the king is NOT hard to keep up once you have the tapestry. Even while starving it takes a LONG time for him to actually die, and getting a new one is super cheap. 

Speaking of maxwell, the fish sanity perk is SUPER underrated. While the sanity boost isn't too huge, 3.3 sanity per minute can make avoiding sanity loss incredibly easy, and the fish is easily obtained and lasts for a long time. Not to mention, she can turn off the regenration, something maxwell cannot do. 

Perhaps her best perk, however, is the ability to ignore cold after the first summer. Being able to keep an ocean sunfish in your inventory for 4/5 days allows you to run around the overworld with nothing but a lantern without any danger of cold, while still getting the free sanity regeneration mentioned before. The ice bream is also super useful, although summer makes it only last 3 days, so you'll have to cycle your fish a little more often. 

There's also the fact that if you're playing with friends, you're the only character who has very little use for the eyebrella. While wetness does still make you cold during the first spring (meaning a thermal in your backpack will be needed), you can still fight at 100% effectiveness, while keeping both your body and head slots free for whatever you see fit. No sanity loss. No tool slipping. And once you have a sunfish, no freezing. Not even wormwood can ignore the main threat of spring that thoroughly.

In terms of long-term solo play, it's also worth pointing out that she has extremely cheap roads in the form of marsh turf. The give the exact same speed boost, but are incredibly cheap. Not to mention the swamp becomes the perfect arena for any boss where speed is of importance, giving you much more freedom than a road-based arena could. Being able to have a 360 degree speed boost for the first deerclops can make things super practical. 

She ALSO has the ability to let Webber and Wortox ignore bunnymen with the use of the clever disguise, making caves a bit less annoying, as well as providing both of them the option to hire a superior version of pigs if they so choose, effectively nullifying one of their downsides. You could also argue that it would allow them to set up a fully automatic spiderfarm, but merm guards are also just objectively better than bunnies, as unlike bunnies, merms won't attack you if you pick up meat, and don't run away when low.

Finally, she also has the single best sanity management in the entire game if she is playing with a wicker. For only 2 NM fuel and 2 papyrus, you can get 165 sanity on demand in the form of sleepytime stories. If you can afford it, you also have 250 instant sanity using 1 tentacle spot and 2 papryrus, giving you enough to go from 0 to full and then some, even with the king of the merms active. 2 eggs and 2 papyrus give you less overall sanity that sleepytime stories at only 150 overall, but it applies it 50 at a time, so it can be a faster and cheaper alternative if needed. It's not quite as fast as using greencaps or cactus, but it's also nonperishable and much easier to amass. 

Wurt has a LOT of upsides, with the only significant downside being an inability to eat meat - which isn't a downside if playing with friends, but can actually make a massive difference if joining random/public games, since emergency food is not exactly plentiful during winter if you never set up a farm. Other than that, it's really just a matter of her upsides requiring a little time investment. But it's worth noting that most of them are useful in their incomplete form - 3 mermhouses will still let you obliterate forests even before you set up a proper colony, and you also start with leaky shacks in the swamp. The swamp itself can still be traversed fast even if you're not setting up roads, you still have free sanity gain from freshwater fish even if you don't have your thermal fish yet, you still only need heat to deal with rain, etc.

I'd put her high A tier for early game, and easy S tier for long term, both singleplayer and multiplayer. She's not amazing in early combat, but no worse than any other non wig/wendy/wolf character either, so on that scale she would be C tier, and B tier once she gets access to her 250 hp. Her utility is next to none once you know what she is capable of.

Damm this makes me think even higher of Wurt...

Put i would still put her in A tier, ill be making changes and writing down new reasons soon so stay tuned ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HowlVoid    1342
On 4/7/2021 at 11:55 PM, Masked Koopa said:

As a wurt main, lemme clarify a bit of stuff.

Sorry, I think Wurt is a B tier character. I don't mean any disrespect and perhaps you change my perspective on the character.

Quote

First up, she's generally better than maxwell at gathering so long as you think about your actions from the moment you spawn in.

Maxwell has an insane headstart over Wurt. He can chop enough trees to last him all year by the time Wurt has found the swamp and built her merm houses, if she is unlucky she might not even have enough seeds at the start. 

Quote

20-30 reeds will often be enough to get you started, and after that all you need is a fishing rod to get your merm army started.

These things alone can take a significant amount of time. Wurt should actually hire wild merms and immediately take them to nearby forestry if she wishes to compete with Maxwell. 

Quote

Unlike maxwell, wurt doesn't have to sacrifice HP to be able to have consistent followers,

She does however need to sacrifice time. From the very beginning Wurt is severely gimped with hardly any perks to call her own for the initial search everything is in the swamp. The bulk of it all comes from her interaction with merms and if she is unlucky she could end up finding the swamp until day 3 or longer. What's worse is that Maxwell hasn't even been reworked yet and she struggles to compete with an unpolished Character.

Quote

and the only thing it costs resource wise is seeds. The ONLY utility maxwell has over wurt when it comes to resource gathering is the first 5 days or so,

A lot can be decided in 5 days. Though I agree Maxwell ends up losing in the long run because having tons wood can only take you so far in the early game. A good Maxwell is probably down in the ruins anyways using shadow duelist to kite bishops.  

Quote

and the ability to shovel things. Merms are just as consistent as shadow workers, and surpassing maxwell's chopping speed can be done very quickly if you don't insist on merm guards and just go for regular merms. 

Depending on how much wood you need Maxwell may already be done by the time he starts to get outpaced by Wurt. 

Quote

King of the merms is a little irritating to get set up initially due to the kelp requirement, but once you do, wurt gets the same effective health stat as wigfrid,

This means very little. With how food work in the game. Wigfrids life steal ends up probably giving her an enormous edge over Wurt. 

Quote

with the best hunger stat in the entire game in terms of time spent without eating (3.33 days, longer than even fully upgraded WX)

Food is probably the most common commodity in the entire game.

Quote

and a higher sanity stat (for what it's worth).

This is a good thing actually. Its better for farming nightmare fuel. 

Quote

And the king is NOT hard to keep up once you have the tapestry. Even while starving it takes a LONG time for him to actually die, and getting a new one is super cheap. 

The king, in my opinion, is the worst part about Wurt. His stat upgrades are not too meaningful and he needs to be set up twice. I hate that Wurts merms function around the king and not Wurt herself, its a bizarre design choice.

Quote

Speaking of maxwell, the fish sanity perk is SUPER underrated. While the sanity boost isn't too huge, 3.3 sanity per minute can make avoiding sanity loss incredibly easy, and the fish is easily obtained and lasts for a long time. Not to mention, she can turn off the regenration, something maxwell cannot do. 

She beats Mawell for sure... Not that its saying much because he hasn't been reworked yet. Maxwell is only a great gatherer at the moment.

Quote

Perhaps her best perk, however, is the ability to ignore cold after the first summer.

Cold isn't exactly a threat..

Quote

Being able to keep an ocean sunfish in your inventory for 4/5 days allows you to run around the overworld with nothing but a lantern without any danger of cold,

All you need is a thermal stone, a suncaller staff and decent planing skills to never have to worry about the cold again. These can all be obtained in the first Autumn.

Quote

while still getting the free sanity regeneration mentioned before. The ice bream is also super useful, although summer makes it only last 3 days, so you'll have to cycle your fish a little more often. 

Its nice, but only nice really. Everyone can ignore summer by going underground where there is more to do.

Quote

There's also the fact that if you're playing with friends, you're the only character who has very little use for the eyebrella. While wetness does still make you cold during the first spring (meaning a thermal in your backpack will be needed), you can still fight at 100% effectiveness, while keeping both your body and head slots free for whatever you see fit. No sanity loss. No tool slipping.

As wurt I never saw the reason to be wet early spring. Though in a multiplayer setting you are correct she is a plus for that. Although rain hats and umbrellas arent exactly hard to come by.

Quote

And once you have a sunfish, no freezing. Not even wormwood can ignore the main threat of spring that thoroughly.

I never try to be wet because his tools still slip. Luckily the eyebrella takes care of the whole season easily.

Quote

In terms of long-term solo play, it's also worth pointing out that she has extremely cheap roads in the form of marsh turf.

I think this is an underrated perk of hers for sure. Long term though a rider beef beats her which anyone can have.

Quote

The give the exact same speed boost, but are incredibly cheap. Not to mention the swamp becomes the perfect arena for any boss where speed is of importance, giving you much more freedom than a road-based arena could. Being able to have a 360 degree speed boost for the first deerclops can make things super practical. 

Completely agree. In the early game it comes in handy for deerclops if you didnt get a cane in time.

Quote

She ALSO has the ability to let Webber and Wortox ignore bunnymen with the use of the clever disguise, making caves a bit less annoying, as well as providing both of them the option to hire a superior version of pigs if they so choose, effectively nullifying one of their downsides.

That is pretty cool.

Quote

You could also argue that it would allow them to set up a fully automatic spiderfarm, but merm guards are also just objectively better than bunnies, as unlike bunnies, merms won't attack you if you pick up meat, and don't run away when low.

Unfortunately, no. Bunnymen have better dps than merms and their kiting does not work in their advantage. The pro of mermguards is that they are cheeper and have better longevity in lower numbers.

Quote

Finally, she also has the single best sanity management in the entire game if she is playing with a wicker. For only 2 NM fuel and 2 papyrus, you can get 165 sanity on demand in the form of sleepytime stories. If you can afford it, you also have 250 instant sanity using 1 tentacle spot and 2 papryrus, giving you enough to go from 0 to full and then some, even with the king of the merms active. 2 eggs and 2 papyrus give you less overall sanity that sleepytime stories at only 150 overall, but it applies it 50 at a time, so it can be a faster and cheaper alternative if needed. It's not quite as fast as using greencaps or cactus, but it's also nonperishable and much easier to amass. 

Womwood has the best sanity management in the game and all he has to do is pick it up off the floor. While wurt may gain it faster she cannot do so on her own. Wormwood can also move his sanity up and down at will and by very deliberate amounts. 

Quote

Wurt has a LOT of upsides, with the only significant downside being an inability to eat meat -

She has more downsides than that:

1. Merm king trades are rng

2. Her merms are very susceptible to aoe attacks.

3. Her merms have a severe lack of animations and poor a.i.

4. The Merm king has to be set-up both aboveground and below

5. She has no real synergy with her merms only being allowed to befriend them. She actually loses a bit of loyalty when the merm king is up.

6. She has to work around the things she builds rather than the other way around.

7. She is forced to interact with the ocean. Perhaps even wasting her early wood for a ship if there is not enough kelp around the shore (not to mention waste time exploring the whole World's shore)

Quote

which isn't a downside if playing with friends, but can actually make a massive difference if joining

With multiplayer balance is thrown out the window.

Quote

random/public games,

These are dicey for any character.

Quote

since emergency food is not exactly plentiful during winter if you never set up a farm. Other than that, it's really just a matter of her upsides requiring a little time investment. But it's worth noting that most of them are useful in their incomplete form - 3 mermhouses will still let you obliterate forests even before you set up a proper colony, and you also start with leaky shacks in the swamp. The swamp itself can still be traversed fast even if you're not setting up roads, you still have free sanity gain from freshwater fish even if you don't have your thermal fish yet, you still only need heat to deal with rain, etc.

Leaky shack are very strong for her early game. 

Quote

I'd put her high A tier for early game,

I think she is B tier for a few more reasons:

1. The first main logger everyone has access to his deerclops not bearger. Deerclops always get me enough wood for my first few chests in a single day. Pig houses are a one shop stop of armor, weapons, planks, slabs and food.

2. Wurt is tied early game to the swamp and its structures. She needs a lot of set up time to do what Wendy can do in one Season (kill beequeen and dragonfly). Unless your into Megabasing wood is only going to get you so far.

3. Wurts perks need maintenance. A merm king, followers, and to build up numbers. while to most characters their perks are given to them for free from the start.

4. When it comes to bosses with aoe's she is Wilson. 

 

Quote

and easy S tier for long term

Every character is S in the late game because catapults/bunnymen/cheesestrats/bone armor/etc

Quote

, both singleplayer and multiplayer. She's not amazing in early combat,

Yup, ×1.0 damage multiplier.

Quote

but no worse than any other non wig/wendy/wolf character either,

Willow has bernie from the get go.

Wormwood has his on demand speed and easy to make darkswords.

Woody has waremoose, possible early glasscutter amd darkswords

Winona has catapults

Wicker has on tentacle (They have flaws though)

Wortox can up his dps by teleporting

Wx-78 is iffy he has to work hard for that 50% speed and it not reliable to get consistently throughout the year.

Wurt can only compare to Maxwell, Wes, Webber, Wilson, and to some degree Walter

Quote

so on that scale she would be C tier, and B tier once she gets access to her 250 hp. Her utility is next to none once you know what she is capable of.

Her utility is very limited to chopping and mining both which become completely irrelevant in the late game thanks to bearger and the forest walker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ArubaroBeefalo    7925
23 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

This is a good thing actually. Its better for farming nightmare fuel

But you choose having it or not. Is useful against bosses

24 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

All you need is a thermal stone, a suncaller staff and decent planing skills to never have to worry about the cold again. These can all be obtained in the first Autumn.

2 items+eyebrella if is spring. Meanwhile wurt can have the same with hust 1 inventory space

26 minutes ago, HowlVoid said:

Wurt can only compare to Maxwell, Wes, Webber, Wilson, and to some degree Walter

Lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Masked Koopa    15

Bear may be good at tearing through trees, but he requires remote storage, and is very difficult to use outside of autumn due to his massive yawn range. Merms let you have your trees right next to base and let you perform year-round harvests. The utility of bear uprooting stumps is nice, but you can easily dig up stumps while merms chop, and any extra time it takes is made up for by not needing to walk over to your dedicated bear storage spot. Forest walker is alright, but can only harvest at night and you can't dig up the stumps while leading him in an efficient manner, making a full harvest a little more irritating, to say the least. 

Thermal stones require regular heating up, and don't even last a day without re-heating. Sunfish last for five days and can be swapped instantly. If you don't appreciate or want that utility, that's on you, but IMO that is a massive upside in terms of practicality, you can walk for 2.5 days uninterrupted with just a lantern without stopping, and have time to get back to base afterwards. You literally only need to swap three times (more like four realistically speaking ofc), during the entirety of winter. If you're trying to do some sort of super fast run of the game, then this won't be of much use, but for long term general play it's a really really useful ability to have.

In terms of combat - Maxwell has half of what wurt does without merm king, as does wes (who also does less damage). Being about equal to the joe schmoe of wilson isn't exactly anything above C tier, but I think having 250 hp does put her in B for durability alone. I'm aware other chars have minor combat perks, but for the most part those are very niche, with a lot of those being just static entities with an extremely high resource cost, not much to give an edge in notable fights for the most part. Catapults would probably be the best bet, but unfortunately for Winona, they can be operated without her, which really limits any sense of them making her any better at combat. 

Merm guards are better spider farmers than bunnymen because they don't aggro you for picking up monster meat like bunnymen do. I never mentioned them being better for anything else, although in the case of bee queen they do have the benefit of a higher max dps due to their higher damage + kiting meaning they don't clog up the available space to hit her after attacking, plus they ignore the roar and don't run away when on low hp. Still, setting up enough merm guards to do that would only be worth it if you're full on megabasing and not just playing long term.

There is absolutely nothing tying you to the swamp either. Mermhouses only cost 3 reeds, meaning 30 reeds will get you enough for 10 mermhouses, and you really only need 5 to do all of your logging. And 30 is something you can easily collect within the first few days (assuming decent luck at finding the swamp). It's a nice arena for deerclops since it gives you a huge area with a road speed boost, but you can base anywhere you want by just digging up a couple of swamp tiles and building your mermhouses whereever. And by the time you're looking into amassing an army you won't need reeds at all, since loyal merm guards can be obtained from king trading anyway. The only real prerequisite is a pond, which is something you should be near anyway for the sake of a farm. 

Also, having low max sanity is not an advantage at all. Losing sanity isn't even remotely difficult, and having a high max sanity means you stay insane longer, since your sanity threshold is a lot higher. If you absolutely must be insane you can just make a lazy deserter and drain your sanity in no time. Or stand in the dark for a bit. Or chug spoiled food. Or hold a dead fish in your inventory. I've never found myself short on nightmare fuel.

Leaky shack is mediocre for her early game, because while it gives you plenty of merms - the swamp is often well away from where you'd actually want to base. They're also not as consistent with leaving their home, and are often far away from any good pine area (although this can vary wildly). They're nice for getting up your initial log supply, but nothing essential IMO. Of course this one is heavily affected by worldgen, so your mileage may vary.

You don't need to be a megabaser to want a lot of wood either. Just having roads from one place to another is a really nice thing for a long-term world where you want to beat a bunch of bosses and are not concerned with doing it as fast as possible, and cobblestones will burn through logs like crazy lol.

When I say S late game I don't mean S tier in combat, I mean S tier in utility. Being able to ignore temperature and rain almost entirely is a really really useful attribute to me that makes her easily one of the most efficient "do stuff" characters long term, since you can make much longer and more uninterrupted trips to different places in your world, and you can stick to using helmets all the time without having to worry about an eyebrella for heat or rain. That's why I mentioned the max hunger - it's not the fact that food is hard to get, it's the fact that you can make long trips across the world, or just perform tasks in your base without having to eat all the time. You can just keep a stash of food next to merm king and feed him and yourself every 3 days. 

And like I said regarding merm king, he may be something you need to maintain, but the maintenance is super cheap. It's not like you suffer any huge consequences for not feeding him if you're running errands. You just go from half-upgraded-wx stats to wilson-level stats. And if you're playing with other people and are worried about them turning hostile, you can wrap a clever disguise next to merm king along with the food, so they can stuff his face every 3-4 days. 

Balance is not thrown out the window with multiplayer. The game is meant to be played multiplayer. That's why deerclops has twice the health he does in DS. Sure, if you add enough players, the game becomes a lot easier, but 2-3 players is what a lot of the bosses are balanced around. The game is not at all balanced for a solo experience, the fact that people are able to solo half of the bosses in the game is cool and all, but the fact is bee queen is not a boss you're meant to fight solo. Nor is fuelweaver. People can do it, and that's awesome, but they would have a fraction of the HP they do if they were in DS. 

The ranking I'm giving her is based on what you'd be doing in an average game session with other people. You're not going to be trying to speedrun the game, and you're going to try to make your base presentable and somewhat long term, because that's the direction I've had with every random server I join, and every world I've played with friends. I don't see the point in a tier list if it's going to cater to a more niche playstyle. And I mean no offense by that, mad respect to anyone who has the skills and patience to solo everything in the game. But that's just not how most players do it. The game's called don't starve together.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HowlVoid    1342
9 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Lol

I was referring to the damage she can do. Unless Im missing something?

8 hours ago, Masked Koopa said:

Bear may be good at tearing through trees, but he requires remote storage, and is very difficult to use outside of autumn due to his massive yawn range.

There's a new food that makes you immune to sleep. I actually use the forest stalker and only really use him once a year. You don't really need all that much wood unless your megabasing. Even with bearger you only need to harvest but once a year to get massive amounts of wood, for free.

Quote

Merms let you have your trees right next to base and let you perform year-round harvests.

Wormhole.

Quote

The utility of bear uprooting stumps is nice, but you can easily dig up stumps

I get so much wood I dont bother pulling out the stumps actually. I just let them despawn or burn them for ash.

Quote

while merms chop, and any extra time it takes is made up for by not needing to walk over to your dedicated bear storage spot.

I mean theres no reason why thia should take longer than a few seconds if you leave him in an adjacent biome seperated by a boat.

Quote

Forest walker is alright, but can only harvest at night and you can't dig up the stumps while leading him in an efficient manner, making a full harvest a little more irritating, to say the least. 

I make my harvest in Winter when night is the longest. I actually haven't used it in a while because I have too much wood at the moment.

Quote

Thermal stones require regular heating up, and don't even last a day without re-heating. Sunfish last for five days and can be swapped instantly. If you don't appreciate or want that utility, that's on you, but IMO that is a massive upside in terms of practicality, you can walk for 2.5 days uninterrupted with just a lantern without stopping, and have time to get back to base afterwards. You literally only need to swap three times (more like four realistically speaking ofc), during the entirety of winter. If you're trying to do some sort of super fast run of the game, then this won't be of much use, but for long term general play it's a really really useful ability to have.

The thing is the scaled furnace exists and in Winter theres not a whole lot running of running around. You can kills klaus, any boss really, use the forest walker, etc you oy need a single dwarf star and starcallers are super cheap (well for Wormwood anyways).

Quote

In terms of combat - Maxwell has half of what wurt does without merm king, as does wes (who also does less damage). Being about equal to the joe schmoe of wilson isn't exactly anything above C tier, but I think having 250 hp does put her in B for durability alone.

I was referring mostly to her fighting with no merms. 

Quote

I'm aware other chars have minor combat perks, but for the most part those are very niche,

Some are niche, like the darkswords but speed an bernie are nothing to scoff at. Bernie late game can (with a lot of help from Willow) basically solo dragonfly hes of great help. Its really funny to watch. Moosegoose is great for obtaining lots of monstear meat for pierogies and enough treeguards can solo toadstool (which is niche but cool).  

Quote

with a lot of those being just static entities with an extremely high resource cost,

Id say Wormwood, Woodie and Willow's perk are all very cheap. If you mean just the catapults then yes, but there are ways to lessen the strain. Moleworm farms, larvae farms, etc can all easily amass the necessary rocks.

Quote

not much to give an edge in notable fights for the most part.

I disagree. A video was posted of waremoose killing klaus, bernie can aggro every grumble bee and tank beequeens first stage and make the first deerclops fight a breeze, Wormwood speed buff means he can reliably kite Dragonfly in the first autumn, get extra hits on beequeen, doesn't need a road against the shadow chess pieces, etc, it has a lot of utility in boss fights. 

Quote

Catapults would probably be the best bet, but unfortunately for Winona, they can be operated without her, which really limits any sense of them making her any better at combat. 

You can build merm homes with Wurt, use a disguise, and essentially be Wurt with any other character. Her perks outside of her merms arent exactly coveted.  

Quote

Merm guards are better spider farmers than bunnymen because they don't aggro you for picking up monster meat like bunnymen do.

I haven't used this method of farming in years. For monster meat Varg farm are better and for just plain old food I use beehives. 

Quote

I never mentioned them being better for anything else, although in the case of bee queen they do have the benefit of a higher max dps due to their higher damage + kiting meaning they don't clog up the available space to hit her after attacking, plus they ignore the roar and don't run away when on low hp. Still, setting up enough merm guards to do that would only be worth it if you're full on megabasing and not just playing long term.

I don't know... I have 40 bunny hutches and they kill her in a day while I just watch. I box them out their house so they don't return to them during epic screeching. They do the job enough to have forget merms are even a thing.

Quote

There is absolutely nothing tying you to the swamp either. Mermhouses only cost 3 reeds, meaning 30 reeds will get you enough for 10 mermhouses, and you really only need 5 to do all of your logging. And 30 is something you can easily collect within the first few days (assuming decent luck at finding the swamp).

That's what i mean, you need to look for the swamp and get all of your starting material from there. If you move too far from the swamp then collecting reed becomes a hassle if you dont have a good wormhole. Everytime I play Wurt I dont even bother with any of that. I just look for the lunar island so I dont have to farm and reset if I dont find it in time. Dont forget some of her initial wood also has to go towards farming. Her meat restriction means she has to come up with a plan to get food early on which means wasting time. 

Quote

It's a nice arena for deerclops since it gives you a huge area with a road speed boost, but you can base anywhere you want by just digging up a couple of swamp tiles and building your mermhouses whereever. And by the time you're looking into amassing an army you won't need reeds at all, since loyal merm guards can be obtained from king trading anyway. The only real prerequisite is a pond, which is something you should be near anyway for the sake of a farm. 

Merms are so limited though. You get wood and rocks, and you kill dragonfly and beequeen; outside of those scenerious what else can they do?

Quote

Also, having low max sanity is not an advantage at all. Losing sanity isn't even remotely difficult, and having a high max sanity means you stay insane longer,

Yeah, that's the point. I did say to farm nightmare fuel.

Quote

since your sanity threshold is a lot higher. If you absolutely must be insane you can just make a lazy deserter and drain your sanity in no time. Or stand in the dark for a bit. Or chug spoiled food. Or hold a dead fish in your inventory. I've never found myself short on nightmare fuel.

That's kinda besides the point. Higher max sanity means its easier to stay insane.

Quote

Leaky shack is mediocre for her early game, because while it gives you plenty of merms - the swamp is often well away from where you'd actually want to base.

That can be bad yes. But otherwise it means I can get my boat up and running asap. Bring them to a forested area and get the necessary logs, then kill them.

Quote

They're also not as consistent with leaving their home, and are often far away from any good pine area (although this can vary wildly). They're nice for getting up your initial log supply, but nothing essential IMO. Of course this one is heavily affected by worldgen, so your mileage may vary.

Yeah.

Quote

You don't need to be a megabaser to want a lot of wood either. Just having roads from one place to another is a really nice thing for a long-term world where you want to beat a bunch of bosses and are not concerned with doing it as fast as possible, and cobblestones will burn through logs like crazy lol.

Oh I don't bother with roads. I just bloom if I need to travel a lot.

Quote

When I say S late game I don't mean S tier in combat, I mean S tier in utility. Being able to ignore temperature and rain almost entirely is a really really useful attribute to me that makes her easily one of the most efficient "do stuff" characters long term, since you can make much longer and more uninterrupted trips to different places in your world, and you can stick to using helmets all the time without having to worry about an eyebrella for heat or rain. That's why I mentioned the max hunger - it's not the fact that food is hard to get, it's the fact that you can make long trips across the world, or just perform tasks in your base without having to eat all the time. You can just keep a stash of food next to merm king and feed him and yourself every 3 days. 

Bundles exists. Eyebrella is guaranteed on day 30. Fridges can be placed anywhere if you really need to be above ground in summer. Starcaller staffs are great for getting from point a to point b (usually base and a place to fight a boss). 

Quote

And like I said regarding merm king, he may be something you need to maintain, but the maintenance is super cheap. It's not like you suffer any huge consequences for not feeding him if you're running errands. You just go from half-upgraded-wx stats to wilson-level stats. And if you're playing with other people and are worried about them turning hostile, you can wrap a clever disguise next to merm king along with the food, so they can stuff his face every 3-4 days. 

My problem with the merm king is his rng, it should be that certain items guarantee certain trades like the yaarctapus.  

Quote

Balance is not thrown out the window with multiplayer. The game is meant to be played multiplayer.

What I mean by this is that I think tier lists for multi are unnecessary because 2 people will make short work of the game. Even two Wilsons. 

Quote

That's why deerclops has twice the health he does in DS. Sure, if you add enough players, the game becomes a lot easier, but 2-3 players is what a lot of the bosses are balanced around. The game is not at all balanced for a solo experience, the fact that people are able to solo half of the bosses in the game is cool and all, but the fact is bee queen is not a boss you're meant to fight solo. Nor is fuelweaver. People can do it, and that's awesome, but they would have a fraction of the HP they do if they were in DS. 

I think its better this way because the bosses don't last seconds. In my opinion the game is great for a solo experience.

Quote

The ranking I'm giving her is based on what you'd be doing in an average game session with other people. You're not going to be trying to speedrun the game, and you're going to try to make your base presentable and somewhat long term, because that's the direction I've had with every random server I join, and every world I've played with friends. I don't see the point in a tier list if it's going to cater to a more niche playstyle. And I mean no offense by that, mad respect to anyone who has the skills and patience to solo everything in the game. But that's just not how most players do it. The game's called don't starve together.

In that case why even give her a tier? The whole point of these kinds of threads is to see how they compare with each other. Solo early game is a great ruler for measuring how well they do with each of their individual perks. Again, I dont mean to insult Wurt I just though that was the whole point of this thread. 

Of course on her own she is a great character and outside of tier list I don't have anything bad to say about her. I just wish she was merm princess and wasnt limited by the merm king who sits on his lazy ass and does nothing. She builds merm kingdom all on her own and some half baked despot takes all of the credit. I think she should be a lot more like a certain pig princess we know and befriending merms should be free with maybe a limit to how many you can befriend, protect Wurt from all hostiles rather than let her die if she didn't befriend them ( I built your home! Don't ignore me!), and just overall want to serve their princess. To me Klei was bit lazy with Wurt, just my opinion.

Edited by HowlVoid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now