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Unplayably low sim speed


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1 hour ago, DaClown said:

I tried out CPY's save without all the mods. CPU never hit above 50% usage after the massive load time. RAM struggled which was causing stuttering for me. While the sim is running and especially when moving the view around, the game stutters because it is bottlenecking on RAM operations; I suspect a precise technical investigation would show that even if you have like 64GB+ RAM that the CPU cache or the microcontroller of the monitor is bottlenecking.

With the mods, the save would be a lot worse. I know directly from experience that Build Over Plants is badly optimized.

Maybe 2d operations/gfx card ram + perhaps memory shifting to board/cpu with screen scrolling ? In the 80s and 90s there was a lot of (speed) improvements on graphic card 2d operations, that basically more or less stopped with the rise of 3d cards in 2000. Also a common request with 2d Unity Engine games from players on forums is "Give us bigger maps" and often devs struggle with that. Since half a year or so Klei is making much more use of graphic card hardware power, perhaps for particle effects and some fake2d in 3d ? Or maybe its just the dlc giant mega map ( with all its animations and the simulation running )  which sucks more gfx card processing power, don`t know...

nv gtx 1060 6gb:

Old base game processing 1-2%

DLC 20-25%

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5 hours ago, arvenil said:

My Research tree opens few seconds and frame rate drops to 10-15/s. Is it just me? I really hate when I need to open it.

Nope the research tree needs more time now, because its gotten much bigger with all the new tech. I guess, it checks what have been researched yet all the time and then displays the tree. There is room for optimization for sure. I think, they´ll get to this in 2 or 3 weeks, as they announced they will address problems and such when they are finished with all the stuff they wanted to add.

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IMHO I think its the big created megamap, which creates a lot of cpu and gpu processing load. At the end of the day I start to play on a small map with 2 fluid geysers, which I find sad.

It seems that Klei managed to offload quite a lot of former cpu load on to the gpu for processing and is making more use of 2 cpu cores, compared to 1 or 2 years ago.

2 years ago I had 12.5% cpu load, nowadays I have 25% cpu load ( playing with 8 core ). On the nvidia gtx 1060 the game used a few % 2 years ago, nowadays its up to 25% gpu processing power with that card.

I have excavated the first colony "map" by 75% and I see where the game performance is heading too.

3 hours ago, cpy said:

Maybe all the gas simulation takes so much FPS? Is this why people always build up whole map or make vacuumed zones?

Is vacuum classified as "not simulated tile" or has perhaps very "limited interaction" possibility ? If it would be dead like neutronium, then it will help save some game speed. Someone knows ? @mathmanican

The less one excavates = retains game speed. Having less stuff in the game = less performance drags.

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I don't think it matters what's in the cell, it's still queried as to whether anything needs to be done with it. Whatever payable area there is might as well be part of the overall matrix of calculations. 

A vacuum tile essentially has all values set to 0 unless it has some building in it. This is still math going on here after all.

Having the code that knows when to skip, that's a different story. It might reduce the depth of calculation.

You ever notice that natural solid tiles and minerals more often than not, will have a set value for mass that's not different from other tiles of the same mineral. So in a sense, this is a vector where only thermal calculations are variable.

The sublimation calculations are kind of deep.

I notice that steamers have a tendency to do two things to improve performance - gassify the map and heap everything into one's at the bottom of the map and store them later.

I don't understand the rationale behind some of the gassifications going on. It's building density that causes me the most visual lag.

Trying to play at 3x speed in an old base, yes noticeable decision making lag for dupes. Even having it where advanced dupes are interrupting slower ones is a calculatory risk with pathfinding.

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IMHO good video on board/cpu power draw, tdp and power limits...How the same cpu can suck 130 watts or up to 315 watts ( as example ) depending on the board hardware, user settings and desired scenario. BTW I currently do not endorse Intel :lol:

Games Nexus

image.png.716890ddf62f8376d986750782b3f06e.png Game starts with something like using 4gb ram and then starts munching its way to 6gb here, after playing a few hours ( public_testing ). Quitting the game and launching the game fresh makes a save file run much faster here.

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On 3/24/2021 at 10:37 PM, babba said:

image.png.716890ddf62f8376d986750782b3f06e.png Game starts with something like using 4gb ram and then starts munching its way to 6gb here, after playing a few hours ( public_testing ). Quitting the game and launching the game fresh makes a save file run much faster here.

Using mods can make it even worse. 

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15 hours ago, SharraShimada said:

Using mods can make it even worse. 

Depends on mods. I try to use only furniture and such, so passive objects barely touch performance. I removed mods that were supposedly high CPU load but I didn't see any observable improvement.

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1 hour ago, cpy said:

Depends on mods. I try to use only furniture and such, so passive objects barely touch performance. I removed mods that were supposedly high CPU load but I didn't see any observable improvement.

I am writing what the save game threw out as message ( as seen in the past posted screenshot) , it stated that around a dozen mods had been missing from the save file and I saw a lot of missing tiles loading your save ( it looked like lots of tile gaps as I did not install the mods from the error list).

-----------------------------

Other game speed topic: The decades old issue of varying amounts of memory sticks resulting in different system performance. In this example it is making a game speed difference of 8% just by using a different amount of memory sticks in this example system.

Gamers Nexus

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1 hour ago, cpy said:

I try to use only furniture and such, so passive objects barely touch performance.

My experience of "extra tiles" mods is different... Well.. I used wallpaper everywhere... but the result was constant game hiccup... (though the low 5kg density per tile is also a factor for "wallpaper" because of constant temperature changes). 

And that was released base game, not EA DLC

Spoiler

265012564_cycle351tetris1.thumb.png.7bc373a540d51daadff4768aadf56422.png

 

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@sakura_sk Nice base, respect - Reminds of the old golden times ! I like your basegame-base :encouragement:

image.thumb.png.8c0e1c61e3e6ff75d9a28543a400a1a2.png

I have laid out the basics in my dlc save, for exponential Skynet growth. Just another ~5000 cycles or so for liquid oxygen/hydrogen and Skynet becomes self aware, ping pong shooting Uranium between all asteroids in ~15000 cycles.

image.thumb.png.5da709c4acb45cc9019889607204bb55.pngimage.png.ae158cf744061ab3c64900e3ff2b03bc.png

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On 3/27/2021 at 1:27 PM, cpy said:

I just want a friggin debug info showing what is using so much CPU time so I can work around it.

Having some sort of "task manager" within the game would be kind of nice. Something to show what sub-processes are doing and. As you mention, what might be blocking fps.

It must be frustrating having a $1600 monitor and the game responding as it does.

It seems artificially slow at times.

I do hope that they eventually include some options to reduce animations on certain buildings.

Perhaps a mod will eventually do much of this.

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Graphics is NOT the problem. Paused game no matter how big your base is runs as smooth as new game. It's simulation, pathfinding etc etc killing FPS. Just look at this game, it's not ULTRA HD overkill graphics, it's simple 2D which is really easy on GPU.

We need to thread those worlds. Right now after my 6th planet I don't want to play anymore, game just runs like crap. And I don't even know what is causing the lag.

Oh man I wish factorio devs that are addicted to optimization would be present in every game dev team. They optimized I think inserters so much that you are now limited by your CPU cache and ram speed due to how fast it runs on CPU, so literally your CPU can not intake instructions as fast as it can process them. That's how factorio is optimized and it's the ONLY game that can get +30% or +40% FPS/UPS when you upgrade ram speed.

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@cpy

gpu comment

The old base game, in the development beginning, made little use of gpu processing. My observation is that since the age of the dlc, gpu processing has increased a lot. It is a default gpu processing load which is present in the first second of starting a fresh 2021 dlc ONI, IMHO ( guessing ) its mainly the handling of the big map dimensions ( little gpu ram allocation, 15-25% gpu processing load of a gtx1060, nvidia chip GP106-400-A1 )

The old base game could have been really played with the dev specified min spec gpu, that has changed in 2021.

save file

If you like :p ...then share a save file, which uses no mods ...would be interesting to share thinkings on a non-mod-save-file my dear friend :encouragement:

storage compactors

I got back in to building storage compactors after 2 years, the reason is a.) sweepy docks and b.) rocket cargo. My years of storage compactor observations is that players could perhaps be not aware that they may run the game with priority settings, where the dupes constantly run around and top up storage compactors or some "buildings inside rockets". All these dupes running around, fetching and topping up/filling buildings with resources can drag the game speed down. As a test some players could building-deactivate all storage compactors/other buildings if they have built 100-1000 buildings in their game.

rockets

I don`t know if the rocket interiors can be edited at the same time of modifying the big game map ( all colony maps together ) in the editor ?

The small rocket interior size(s) and the rocket(s)/rocket platform(s) naming conventions like "Platform 113" indicate that Klei has dozen of player rocket handling in minds, which is really cool and scalable play fun.

I currently don`t use the editor because I don`t want to break my play fun game immersion in 2021 - To restrict dupes to mess with rocket insides, I currently switch to "Crew" and select nobody as crew.

testing

If you share a non-mod save file then someone could kill the content also down to 8 dupes in total and 8 critters in total...for testing reasons, next to deleting all storage compactors/resource content/pipes etc. or neutronium the entire map up and/or deleting all present resources or building objects. If one wants to find out which sucks cpu/gpu, then one could start mass deleting map content and objects, the editor is good to find out where the game speed goes.

The more players share their finding on possible major speed suckers, the better one can optimize the own personal play experience...Until Klei speed improves more things.

map/game speed passes

As personal preference I do a speed pass in the game on my maps every now and then, simplifying built stuff and getting rid of some things/stuff/dupe priorities etc., but I also love to build gigatons of things. In a few years I may checkout some mods, someday...When the game is more "development finished". If people share info what pulls down the most game speed and what their own experience is, much appreciated :rolleyes:

radio.gifмашинный атомradio.gif

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