ZombieDupe

We need proper Airlocks and better Visco Gel

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babba    1562
1 hour ago, Yunru said:

Bad Babba! Not eating the airlock! 

In ONi multiplayer...One dupe could lock two other dupes in to an airlock. Then the dupe could activate the compression chamber motor...

More buildings, more survival mode player choices, more fun, more everything. :adoration:

Vote A.) If you use ONI buildings

Vote B.) If you play without ONi buildings

tenor20.gif  Vote C.) If unsure  giphy2.gif

Edited by babba

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avc15    485

There is already a proper airlock building, it is called transit tube.

But the downsides are not to your liking.

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babba    1562

I suggested buildings, if somebody does not like downsides of whatever is in question...That is up to them :afro:

Having a moon-pool  and a compression chamber in the game would be awesome :adoration:

Edited by babba
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avc15    485

@babba

 

I was replying to OP, not necessarily you. have not yet read your idea.

 

transit tubes do indeed have significant downsides. 1) they queue and checkpoint dupes 2) high tech materials and research 3) very high power use

 

Edited by avc15

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babba    1562
28 minutes ago, avc15 said:

@babba

I was replying to OP, not necessarily you. have not yet read your idea.

Okidoki, all cool :p I do understand that there is simulation fans with a strong opinion, I love the simulation too...But I also like to play with ONi buildings. Buildings can have some downsides, for those players who use buildings vs using simulation materials ( to air/gas-block entrances and such ). IMHO the best of both worlds can cater to everyone - Using simulation materials and/or using buildings. Airlock related ideas

A pressure system ( some magnetism system and infrared light/heating in the game would also be great ) could be something for the game. There could be a diving airlock, for dupes in diving outfits, for usage with a moon-pool, compression chamber and even a little submarine :love-struck:

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ZombieDupe    112
On 3/5/2021 at 6:23 PM, Yunru said:

Why not? 

It's what you have to do for everything else; for power, for oxygen, even for things like refineries you have to set up a system to handle the coolant.

Why should airlock be any different, just because you say they should (especially without any supporting reason)? 

On 3/5/2021 at 6:31 PM, marioespinho said:

What's really ridiculous is that you DO HAVE options available to you. You just don't wan't (or at least you argue against them) to use them. Yet you come rant on the forums, out of a sense of entitlement, like you are the dictator of what is or isn't fun in this game.

Oxygen generation has straight up buildings, cooking has buildings, decor has specific buildings, all of these things make sense in their own right. Expecting for a player to learn this is reasonable, liquid locks or building a slow, complicated mechanism that keeps gases and liquids out of an area is not, and that is because in practice that is exactly what happens.

Electrolizer setup is an example of something that is explained well enough for someone to learn to use it well. You might not make an optimal setup box for it, but you will have understood to make the building blocks for it; the electrolyser to make oxygen with hydrogen as a biproduct. Hydrogen becomes an issue, you build a hydrogen generator to destroy it and get some power as well as a pump near the top of your colony since you notice it piling up. Things may break, not work as intended, but in time you will learn. Not the case with something like a liquid lock, or cooling and at times germs too because of the specific conditions under which these things will be effective.

Powerful and reliable cooling itself is actually another example of having a niche solution that is at no point properly explained (the Steam Turbine), that's why you get a lot of topics with people not understanding how to do it. That is why I say we should have proper options that are explained or are obvious enough to understand from what you already know. A proper airlock that just takes power and generates some heat would give a much more obvious option for people who can't grasp niche mechanics like liquid locks and for anyone who doesn't like to fiddle with making them. It doesn't retract anything for people like you who are perfectly fine with things as they are, just adds more options for people to use. If this  doesn't explain it to you, I don't think you are going to get it and I don't think there's reason for you to discuss this with me.

If you think the two options we have right now are fine, tell me how anyone would be able to figure out to make a liquid lock or a complex mechanical one (like the one you designed, Yunru. The fact you had to make a proper design for it speaks volumes against the idea that you could very easily figure it out on your own) on their own? If it includes any amount of sandbox, reading the wiki, asking for help online, looking up guides, being a taught engineer, or simply being incredibly lucky then that is not a fair argument for me.

Tl;dr Because most people are never going to be able to figure out these methods and generally it is annoying to set up for many that do know how to make them, that's why. I and I'm sure many other people don't want to invest a huge amount of time just getting a mechanical airlock or fiddle with liquid locks just to get their duplicants from one area to another without gas spilling all over the place and being annoying. And having more alternative and obvious options for people who would never figure out these methods is a huge benefit.

On 3/5/2021 at 6:23 PM, Yunru said:

Dude. You. Are describing. Visco Gel. As it already is.

No I'm not. Visco gel is a liquid you dump in a bottle emptier to create a liquid lock that is prone to breaking if it interacts with liquid. What I describe is a tile that you can build out of visco gel that you can pass through. The difference? Easier to set up (no messing around with bottle emptiers to get this amount of liquid in one spot and mopping up the rest and deconstructing the emptier), more obvious and doesn't break due to liquids passing through. There you go. Someone else discussed this idea in a different topic before actually though I can't point to it. Since you couldn't even understand that from the very beginning of the topic where I discussed this, I think we are just going to go in circles with everything, me trying to explain the same thing over and over to you. If you don't understand it, may be move on, I don't know.

On 3/5/2021 at 6:31 PM, marioespinho said:

LMAO ! A liquid lock is "niche, kind of exploitative and rarely anyone would discover them on their own"? What? You serious? Also, just because some people request a feature, that doesn't mean that it should be in the game. You may not be the only one, but you don't speak for the whole community either.

So basically, comments that don't agree with yours are "garbage". I'm sorry but neither you, me or anyone else get to be gatekeepers of what makes or doesn't make this game enjoyable. I get tons of enjoyment out of this game, as do a lot of people. You want to make a request or ask for a feature? Fine! Just use the appropriate section instead of making it like this should 100% be a part of the game or it's less fun. If you lose 90% of the fun, or find it annoying to deal with aspects of the game, then maybe the game isn't for you.

Never said I speak for the whole community, the fact I say things about other people whom I've observed and heard opinions from doesn't mean that. You obviously disagree and that's fine, but the problem to me and many other people is there even if you don't recognise it as such. I said it should be a feature because it has been highly requested. The reason your point was garbage is because again, the things you can figure out solutions while playing for are reasonable challenges. Liquid locks are a niche concept because I have yet to see anyone figure it out on their own. This type of game is absolutely for me, and many more people that have stopped playing, but leaving frustrating mechanics that you have to deal with to progress unaddressed is really discouraging. If something is complex, a developer should look to make a learning path for the player to get as they play, otherwise you will get people stuck for way too long or have them look up a guide or something.

And I can make a topic like this if I want to, there is nothing wrong with pointing out an issue that has already been pointed out 100 times before and giving reasons as to why.

On 3/5/2021 at 6:50 PM, JRup said:

I beg to differ somewhat on the general accepted fact that they are prone to breaking.

I won't say liquid locks aren't delicate but will argue against using them without proper planning against dupedom. I've kept some for thousands of cycles and they work wonderfully. I've yet to find the need to use the full 100kg of visco gel for a single lock. I routinely stack 2kg of naphta and visco gel each and I'm done with the liquid lock itself. For me the concept of creating untold amounts of visco gel for only two or three locks is nonsense. Coincidentally, the only liquids to measure are naphta and visco gel. The other two in the picture are petro and super coolant. They can just flow down the "staircase" and have appropriate amounts for bottling (same goes for other liquids, but the build just has these ).

Liquid locks, particularly with water are very easy to break if some liquid spills in some place, like gas such as steam condensing, especially if you use small amounts of said liquid to make a lock. If you simply disagree with that, good for you.

49 minutes ago, avc15 said:

transit tubes do indeed have significant downsides. 1) they queue and checkpoint dupes 2) high tech materials and research 3) very high power use

A building that high in the tech tree would be fine in my opinion, since you will be able to get that far in tech tree by the time you need to mess around with a lot more annoying gases like chlorine and natural gas. And it needs to be further in the tech tree than the regular Mechanical Airlock anyway. I don't think it should require plastic, just refined metal should be reasonably balanced, but it makes sense that it would require a decent bit of power to drain the gas/liquid that gets inside it. If we take out the need for plastic, the transit tube could be very much used for the same purpose, but I don't expect it to be the obvious building choice for new players, so a dedicated building makes sense. The transit access also charges steadily every time it is used instead of being able to grab power from your power grid directly, which can slow things down significantly with more duplicants going through the same area at the same time.

Edited by ZombieDupe
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JRup    298
41 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

Liquid locks, particularly with water are very easy to break if some liquid spills in some place, like gas such as steam condensing, especially if you use small amounts of said liquid to make a lock. If you simply disagree with that, good for you.

Please note my emphasis on the quantifiers. I never said LL's are immune to breaking. My argument was centered in the application and care that needs to be taken when using any form of the locks.

For reference:

Spoiler

 

Any amount of fluid that is less than 2kg is subject to displacement from the tile it sits in if a material that offgases occupies the same space for some amount of time. Or a farting dupe :D.

Additionally, generally used liquids that form locks with about 35g of liquid are water, polluted water, salt water, brine and super-coolant.

For petroleum and crude 350g will do.

Naphta and visco gel are the only ones that can bear the minimum of 2kg to avoid the aforementioned unpleasantries.

It is also useful to know these amounts when in need for spot cooling, particularly in vacuums.

Since I learned how to handle said amounts of liquid my new playthroughs include these almost immediately. (The bottle emptier and liquid pump are some paltry steps away in the research tree.)

This pretty much trivializes the discomfort of polluted oxygen in the dlc terra start for example. I just build the lock before breaking into any new biome. And further down the line, a deodorizer is built right next to any liquid lock for free filtered O2.

Now, steam condensation. Yes, that's a thing.

Double liquid locks with a vacuum in between are also a great resource to thermally isolate and avoid the issue. I use this all the time for ease of access and also include a mechanized airlock after the liquid locks to restrict dupe access, pneumatic doors can be used as well if feeling adventurous.

 

For now I will stand by my opinion that airlocks could have been named "airtight doors" and many a discussion could have been averted.

Finally, I won't say a dedicated structure for this kind of airlock application isn't necessary or unwanted.  I would also like a crude to natural gas contraption as well as a bleach-stone refinery directly from Klei. One recent build of mine was a squeaky puft ranch. 24 dupes and two hot tubs later I still don't know what to do with that much poop anymore. (So I decided to make a salt water chiller and soon farm waterweed - it can be seen in another thread in this forum.)

The fact that this sandbox game has so many style possibilities is what draws me back, it does have its ugh moments but planning ahead is welcome practice.

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spkthed    103
3 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

No I'm not. Visco gel is a liquid you dump in a bottle emptier to create a liquid lock that is prone to breaking if it interacts with liquid. What I describe is a tile that you can build out of visco gel that you can pass through.

You are though. You can build tiles out of viscogel. No need for bottler, liquids, etc. 

Quote

Liquid locks, particularly with water are very easy to break if some liquid spills in some place.

There are lots of ways to mitigate this as well.

Obviously you have a right to feel the way you do but many of us like it okay as-is because we like the challenge of complex and multiple ways to achieve a goal. Like viscogel and not being aware that you can place it as a tile - don't assume that your concerns have not been addressed already even if it's not the solution preferred.

At the end of the day Klei has to balance the desires of what everyone wants and what they want to do. For everyone like you that wants a building there are a lot of us that do not. And there is the mod which works pretty well with what I consider fair tradeoffs if you want the building building.

Edited by spkthed
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marioespinho    124
2 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

Electrolizer setup is an example of something that is explained well enough for someone to learn to use it well. You might not make an optimal setup box for it, but you will have understood to make the building blocks for it; the electrolyser to make oxygen with hydrogen as a biproduct. Hydrogen becomes an issue, you build a hydrogen generator to destroy it and get some power as well as a pump near the top of your colony since you notice it piling up. Things may break, not work as intended, but in time you will learn. Not the case with something like a liquid lock, or cooling and at times germs too because of the specific conditions under which these things will be effective.

Great example actually.

Dealing with gas passing through a door is not such a difficult concept. It's easy to understand how gas work in the game, right? So why don't you use this exact same logic - " You might not make an optimal setup box for it, but you will have understood to make the building blocks for it; the electrolyser to make oxygen with hydrogen as a biproduct. Hydrogen becomes an issue, you build a hydrogen generator to destroy it and get some power as well as a pump near the top of your colony since you notice it piling up." - And deal with it?

But no, you are asking for a simple building that you can just plop in the game and make it easy to deal with. In the case of oxygen production you know what that would be? A SPOM machine.

3 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

Powerful and reliable cooling itself is actually another example of having a niche solution that is at no point properly explained (the Steam Turbine), that's why you get a lot of topics with people not understanding how to do it. That is why I say we should have proper options that are explained or are obvious enough to understand from what you already know. A proper airlock that just takes power and generates some heat would give a much more obvious option for people who can't grasp niche mechanics like liquid locks and for anyone who doesn't like to fiddle with making them.

The problem is that this is a game intended for players to learn and deal with all of those things, instead of just throwing 1-click items to solve every little thing players can come across. That's why almost everything has a consequence or byproduct. If that kind of gameplay doesn't cater to some people, then they are just playing the wrong type of game for them. You are literally asking for something that goes against the very nature of this game.

That would be the same as if i went to the don't starve forums and say that Klei should make an easier way to kill Fuelweaver or Bee Queen, because not everyone wants to deal with finnicky and complex item switches or doesn't know how to kite properly.

3 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

but the problem to me and many other people is there even if you don't recognise it as such. I said it should be a feature because it has been highly requested. The reason your point was garbage is because again, the things you can figure out solutions while playing for are reasonable challenges. Liquid locks are a niche concept because I have yet to see anyone figure it out on their own. This type of game is absolutely for me, and many more people that have stopped playing, but leaving frustrating mechanics that you have to deal with to progress unaddressed is really discouraging. If something is complex, a developer should look to make a learning path for the player to get as they play, otherwise you will get people stuck for way too long or have them look up a guide or something.

But you, and others, having a problem with the game's mechanics isn't the developers fault, so it's not up to them to change the game, but up to players to either adapt, or move on. You can 100% play the game and be sucessful at it without liquid locks, or any other type of lock. You are not asking for a way to play the game, you just asking for an "easy mode".

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babba    1562
31 minutes ago, marioespinho said:

But you, and others, having a problem with the game's mechanics isn't the developers fault, so it's not up to them to change the game, but up to players to either adapt, or move on.

Where is all the salt coming from :confused: Is there a salt mine somewhere nearby :confused::confused::confused:

image.thumb.png.1c4940e1bc346756ffea474e9f81df01.png Mr. Buggles and me are hoping very much for many new buildings in the game :excitement:

Airlocks, Diving Pressure Locks...All welcome :afro: Keep it coming Klei :x:cheerful::x

@sakura_sk has the best caturday bee hives :adoration: bzzzzz bzzzz ! @minespatch

Edited by babba
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babba    1562
3 hours ago, minespatch said:

5b9a06248d2f2_ArielDorkface.png.2ec8db452db594a954ed458d6fdbb5c6.pngYes?

Your hairy dupe looks wonderful :love-struck: If we had hair in the game...

Then we could make an excellent airlock by filling the tiles with hair :confused::cheerful::beguiled:

image.png.8abcef565d6eead1b00d7442eea09160.png Proof of concept: Filling tiles with hair - Perfect airlock image.png.47e585bc93cec207275a791f3e4876f2.png

image.png.b9a58491c949ba63020b1ce11c8f8ed9.pngTile airlock - Unfitted condition - Hair still needs to be applied.

image.png.3eecaf996b70841d9f6f1e65431dd97a.pngimage.thumb.png.2886b5946a1c5334629d750198b83e93.png

Need dupe haircut station = Coiffeur / Coiffeuse Station

Hair > Dupes "Mario & Luigi" can take the cut dupe hair to the leaky tunnel pipe and fill the airlock with hair.

image.png.e9f969ef74f58b00419b7d891296ac4e.pngimage.png.c08060bcf92de3162ea6dd01c5d6edb3.pngimage.png.26e294662b34517327d6938d422fbbd1.png

...once the hair has been fitted in to the airlock, its 100% sealed and air tight !

Edited by babba
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Dubiday    17

Maybe one of the difference between people that want a building and those who don't is the number of hours played? Maybe players with 1500+ hours of ONI are looking for a challenge and want Klei to add end games things to do while players with far less hours just want to chill and build nice bases?

And I guess we won't find many casual oni players here.

I really wonder what the result of an in-game poll would be on the matter.

 

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ZombieDupe    112
On 3/7/2021 at 12:22 AM, spkthed said:

You are though. You can build tiles out of viscogel. No need for bottler, liquids, etc. 

You can't pass through Plastic Tiles made of Visco Gel though (unless I'm mistaken on that particular point, and if so, feel free to correct me) and they will melt at regular temperatures. Visco gel doesn't freeze until -30C, but anything above that it will melt, so they don't work the way I'm making a proposition for.

On 3/7/2021 at 12:22 AM, spkthed said:

There are lots of ways to mitigate this as well.

Obviously you have a right to feel the way you do but many of us like it okay as-is because we like the challenge of complex and multiple ways to achieve a goal. Like viscogel and not being aware that you can place it as a tile - don't assume that your concerns have not been addressed already even if it's not the solution preferred.

At the end of the day Klei has to balance the desires of what everyone wants and what they want to do. For everyone like you that wants a building there are a lot of us that do not. And there is the mod which works pretty well with what I consider fair tradeoffs if you want the building building.

Not everything needs a building, but many could agree that having a more of a dedicated building would be a much needed change that would make the overall experience more enjoyable. You can build your complex things, still build liquid locks if you want, since they will still be the optimal way of doing things anyway (until Visco Gel), and people like me can just place that building to stop the frustration and deal with more enjoyable challenges, like illness or radiation.

On 3/6/2021 at 10:46 PM, JRup said:

For now I will stand by my opinion that airlocks could have been named "airtight doors" and many a discussion could have been averted.

I don't think anything would have changed by that. A new building on the other hand, that is always fully sealed, but has the minor issues of slight slowdown, power consumptions, heat production and gathered liquid/gas output needing to be tackled would more than likely have.

On 3/6/2021 at 10:46 PM, JRup said:

For now I will stand by my opinion that airlocks could have been named "airtight doors" and many a discussion could have been averted.

Finally, I won't say a dedicated structure for this kind of airlock application isn't necessary or unwanted.  I would also like a crude to natural gas contraption as well as a bleach-stone refinery directly from Klei. One recent build of mine was a squeaky puft ranch. 24 dupes and two hot tubs later I still don't know what to do with that much poop anymore. (So I decided to make a salt water chiller and soon farm waterweed - it can be seen in another thread in this forum.)

The fact that this sandbox game has so many style possibilities is what draws me back, it does have its ugh moments but planning ahead is welcome practice.

Sour Gas boiler is an example of a contraption that, while near impossible to discover and build on your own, at the same time it isn't necessary, but is nice and efficient if you want to go ahead and build it for extra power. Because it isn't necessary, having a dedicated building that makes the entire contraption not a worthwhile investment probably isn't a good idea.

Yeah, the whole liquid lock is a huge ugh moment for me in particular, whenever I get to a stage where I have to build it, I wish I could do anything but that. But I can't, it's pretty much the only way to progress without a huge mess of gases.

On 3/7/2021 at 1:26 AM, marioespinho said:

Great example actually.

Dealing with gas passing through a door is not such a difficult concept. It's easy to understand how gas work in the game, right? So why don't you use this exact same logic - " You might not make an optimal setup box for it, but you will have understood to make the building blocks for it; the electrolyser to make oxygen with hydrogen as a biproduct. Hydrogen becomes an issue, you build a hydrogen generator to destroy it and get some power as well as a pump near the top of your colony since you notice it piling up." - And deal with it?

But no, you are asking for a simple building that you can just plop in the game and make it easy to deal with. In the case of oxygen production you know what that would be? A SPOM machine.

Yeah genius, who don't people just use the same logic to understand something like a liquid lock and just deal with it? Very peculiar indeed!

On 3/7/2021 at 1:26 AM, marioespinho said:

The problem is that this is a game intended for players to learn and deal with all of those things, instead of just throwing 1-click items to solve every little thing players can come across. That's why almost everything has a consequence or byproduct. If that kind of gameplay doesn't cater to some people, then they are just playing the wrong type of game for them. You are literally asking for something that goes against the very nature of this game.

That would be the same as if i went to the don't starve forums and say that Klei should make an easier way to kill Fuelweaver or Bee Queen, because not everyone wants to deal with finnicky and complex item switches or doesn't know how to kite properly.

But you, and others, having a problem with the game's mechanics isn't the developers fault, so it's not up to them to change the game, but up to players to either adapt, or move on. You can 100% play the game and be sucessful at it without liquid locks, or any other type of lock. You are not asking for a way to play the game, you just asking for an "easy mode".

I mention in another quote-reply above this about sour gas boiler being dumbed down to a single building being a bad idea. There is one big reason to have a dedicated building for a proper airlock of sorts and not have a building for a sour gas boiler. The whole thing I mentioned about the electrolyser also, still, applies. If you're smart enough, you will be able to put my discussion points together to understand my point. But I won't just give them away to you what they are! That would be too easy! You'll figure it out, right?

DST is an entirely different discussion, but if we're talking about those particular bosses, in short, Fuel Weaver is a good boss that is impossible to get to unless you know exactly what you are doing (you will never find out on your own). Bee Queen is just cheese all day, every day, instant death for anyone who might think they are ready but really aren't.

It is the developers fault if it's the same constant problem and they aren't addressing it. And it has been. Just as something like cooling. Always a problem that barely anyone can solve on their own. If it was just a one-off for one player, then there's a chance the player's just being dumb, but even then, not necessarily. I would like to see how you could be successful at the game without liquid locks. What if you made a steam chamber, after following a guide to cool things down, broke something in it, and have to get in to fix it and rebuild multiple things until you figure out the problem? I see no real way of doing that without letting all the steam out and then that being an annoying problem to deal with since the high pressure will just make it spread like a wild fire.

36 minutes ago, Dubiday said:

Maybe one of the difference between people that want a building and those who don't is the number of hours played? Maybe players with 1500+ hours of ONI are looking for a challenge and want Klei to add end games things to do while players with far less hours just want to chill and build nice bases?

And I guess we won't find many casual oni players here.

I really wonder what the result of an in-game poll would be on the matter.

 

Not exactly. I have close to 1500h and I like a good challenge. But I don't like finnicky stuff like liquid locks or annoying taming of a Cool Steam Vent. As is, I'd much rather tame a volcano, at least they activate Steam Turbines with no issue. Most of the game is and works well with just "set this, and it's done, build a better system later", but liquid locks are always just annoying and you can't expect players to learn about its existence and use consistently on their own, it just doesn't happen.

I could be wrong, but I suspect that the poll would be skewed. Casual players are just scared off with all the annoying asterisks to making some things work and all the finnicky stuff that just gets boring to deal with, so you can never really get into most of the other content the game has to offer, so you would not see many of them on steam forum, let alone here. May be some disgruntled player that really hates the idea will make multiple accounts to skew the data too... may be a farfetched scenario. But for example, the suit repair mechanic got negative feedback in a poll, which to me is really baffling, it wasn't even a frustrating mechanic, not even difficult to deal with, and it introduces another layer of something to take care of that some people really seem to roll over for. I of all people am perfectly fine with it though.

Edited by ZombieDupe
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marioespinho    124
1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

Yeah, the whole liquid lock is a huge ugh moment for me in particular, whenever I get to a stage where I have to build it, I wish I could do anything but that. But I can't, it's pretty much the only way to progress without a huge mess of gases.

 

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

Fuel Weaver is a good boss that is impossible to get to unless you know exactly what you are doing (you will never find out on your own)

 

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

Bee Queen is just cheese all day, every day

 

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

It is the developers fault if it's the same constant problem and they aren't addressing it. And it has been. Just as something like cooling. Always a problem that barely anyone can solve on their own.

 

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

I would like to see how you could be successful at the game without liquid locks.

 

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

liquid locks are always just annoying and you can't expect players to learn about its existence and use consistently on their own, it just doesn't happen.

 

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

I could be wrong, but I suspect that the poll would be skewed.

 

1 hour ago, ZombieDupe said:

May be some disgruntled player that really hates the idea will make multiple accounts to skew the data too

I really have nothing else to say about this. You overexaggerate something that is so simple, while making it seem like we are talking about a vital point of the game, that have no way to address without doing whatever you hate to do, while also being near to impossible for someone to discover. I'll just let these gems here and move on.

Have a nice one.

Edited by marioespinho
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Gurgel    2412
4 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

...

Well, you know if the quality of your arguments would reach 10% of the zeal you are making them with, we would all long since have been convinced.

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Dubiday    17
19 hours ago, marioespinho said:

I really have nothing else to say about this. You overexaggerate something that is so simple, while making it seem like we are talking about a vital point of the game, that have no way to address without doing whatever you hate to do, while also being near to impossible for someone to discover. I'll just let these gems here and move on.

Have a nice one.

Why would he be overexaggerating? When he says "Yeah, the whole liquid lock is a huge ugh moment for me in particular, whenever I get to a stage where I have to build it, I wish I could do anything but that. But I can't, it's pretty much the only way to progress without a huge mess of gases." this is exactly what I have been thinking every time I have to build yet another liquid lock. 

Why does it bother you so much that some players may be annoyed at this part of the game? Why the animosity toward people that don't think the way you do?

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Yunru    1586
40 minutes ago, Dubiday said:

Why would he be overexaggerating?

Because it's not the only way? 

And it's not a "huge mess of gases" to set up said alternative methods?

44 minutes ago, Dubiday said:

Why does it bother you so much that some players may be annoyed at this part of the game? Why the animosity toward people that don't think the way you do?

I would imagine because of the way he states his subjective opinion as objective fact, then belittles anyone who doesn't share his viewpoint with personal attacks. 

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spkthed    103
23 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

You can't pass through Plastic Tiles made of Visco Gel though (unless I'm mistaken on that particular point, and if so, feel free to correct me) and they will melt at regular temperatures.

Right. But that solves the problem. It's an easy fix and it's not hard to deal with. For the 'what if other liquids disrupt it' there are mesh tiles to prevent spills. Or single dot liquid locks using materials that are liquid in the temp ranges desired. Or automated doors and a vacuum pump for a very very real-world airlock - nothing in the real world is going to 100% prevent mixing of gasses, right?

Most of this is personal preference and 100% - feel the way you do, vent the want you want, etc. For everyone going 'why are all of these people always pushing back' for me the answer is simple.

Klei just released a huge - HUGE update to the game, that fixes most of what made mid to late game unfun for a criminally low price of $13. Hopefully this goes up to at least $25 or they find other ways to monetize the game but I want more content. This game is the most fun of any game I've ever played. Every time a developer implements a system they can't monetize they take away from more annoying bugfixes, new features that more of the population wants, etc. I think a lot of the people who push back against posts like this share a similar view. New systems, new buildings are okay, but it needs to be prioritized. And the devs need to see (not that they aren't aware already) that these are controversial opinions and to weight the concerns appropriately.

People need to understand that - pet peeves for someone like you and I may be shared by a fraction of the game-base. Learn to like what you do, rather than invest this much energy into what you don't. And honestly, if having to implement real-world technologies like liquid locks make you this unhappy - find something else!

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babba    1562
42 minutes ago, spkthed said:

...Learn to like what you do, rather than invest this much energy into what you don't. And honestly, if having to implement real-world technologies like liquid locks make you this unhappy - find something else!

Everybody is welcome to the game :p In my opinion nobody should be told to find something else and arguments should be discussed with arguments, without personal instructions.

Ideas, questions, humor, counter arguments, situation analysis, science comparisons...There is many ways to vibrate a discussion in a positive way :beguiled:

Spoiler
On 3/4/2021 at 12:36 AM, ZombieDupe said:

The basic airlocks we have right now are good enough most times earlier on in the game when you want to keep different gases of regular pressures on different sides, but ultimately liquid locks become a necessity and they are rather annoying to set up and are very easy to break with some spillage. A door that would allow a duplicant in, pump out all the gas and liquid, then let the duplicant pass through would be enough as the next step and save a lot of the hassle. The only other true alternative to liquid locks right now that I know of is making a duplicant checkpoint setup with some automation as well as mechanical airlocks and hefty amount of pumping, which has been discussed around here before and it is way too complex, power intensive and slow for the simple act of separating gas in areas.

There was someone who suggested earlier Visco Gel to be a solid at regular temperatures rather than a liquid, so you could make make tiles out of it through which solids (and duplicants) could pass through, but not liquids or gases. This would not be a fail proof method given the melting point of the gel becomes the current boiling point for instance, but it would let you make a more robust system with late game materials that are incredibly hard to get. I think that's fair and better than the current gel use, given you can get pretty much get the same liquid lock effect with gel as with crude oil + petroleum right now and it's more of a novelty than a significant improvement.

Edited by babba
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spkthed    103

Hey I don't disagree - I want *everyone* to enjoy this game. But not everyone will, and everyone gets hung-up on stuff right? It's okay to acknowledge that and to find things you enjoy more.

Someone I know quit reading because they got hung up on a very very popular book and tried multiple times to finish it. Didn't want to read something else until finishing the last book and the last book was just so unenjoyable that would never happen. 

Find happiness, find stuff you enjoy. Don't waste your time on stuff you won't.

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babba    1562
26 minutes ago, spkthed said:

Hey I don't disagree - I want *everyone* to enjoy this game. But not everyone will, and everyone gets hung-up on stuff right? It's okay to acknowledge that and to find things you enjoy more.

Someone I know quit reading because they got hung up on a very very popular book and tried multiple times to finish it. Didn't want to read something else until finishing the last book and the last book was just so unenjoyable that would never happen. 

Find happiness, find stuff you enjoy. Don't waste your time on stuff you won't.

I like buildings, I love the ONi simulation and I like to spend time in forums where people do not instruct other people what to do :p

Below is the original suggestion and original posted discussion points from the user. Handing out a nice hot coffee to everyone :cheerful:

On 3/4/2021 at 12:36 AM, ZombieDupe said:

The basic airlocks we have right now are good enough most times earlier on in the game when you want to keep different gases of regular pressures on different sides, but ultimately liquid locks become a necessity and they are rather annoying to set up and are very easy to break with some spillage. A door that would allow a duplicant in, pump out all the gas and liquid, then let the duplicant pass through would be enough as the next step and save a lot of the hassle. The only other true alternative to liquid locks right now that I know of is making a duplicant checkpoint setup with some automation as well as mechanical airlocks and hefty amount of pumping, which has been discussed around here before and it is way too complex, power intensive and slow for the simple act of separating gas in areas.

There was someone who suggested earlier Visco Gel to be a solid at regular temperatures rather than a liquid, so you could make make tiles out of it through which solids (and duplicants) could pass through, but not liquids or gases. This would not be a fail proof method given the melting point of the gel becomes the current boiling point for instance, but it would let you make a more robust system with late game materials that are incredibly hard to get. I think that's fair and better than the current gel use, given you can get pretty much get the same liquid lock effect with gel as with crude oil + petroleum right now and it's more of a novelty than a significant improvement.

Edited by babba

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Gurgel    2412
2 hours ago, marioespinho said:

I don't mind people thinking the opposite way, but it is annoying when people just come up with facts that are totally wrong, say that we lack options when said options exist and when the claim that there is no other way around the issue when there is. He is just distorting the facts in order to make his point sound more valid than what it really is.

Pretty much this. The whole thing is basically completely invalid because it claims things that are not true. 

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