We need proper Airlocks and better Visco Gel

[ZombieDupe 98]

The basic airlocks we have right now are good enough most times earlier on in the game when you want to keep different gases of regular pressures on different sides, but ultimately liquid locks become a necessity and they are rather annoying to set up and are very easy to break with some spillage. A door that would allow a duplicant in, pump out all the gas and liquid, then let the duplicant pass through would be enough as the next step and save a lot of the hassle. The only other true alternative to liquid locks right now that I know of is making a duplicant checkpoint setup with some automation as well as mechanical airlocks and hefty amount of pumping, which has been discussed around here before and it is way too complex, power intensive and slow for the simple act of separating gas in areas.

There was someone who suggested earlier Visco Gel to be a solid at regular temperatures rather than a liquid, so you could make make tiles out of it through which solids (and duplicants) could pass through, but not liquids or gases. This would not be a fail proof method given the melting point of the gel becomes the current boiling point for instance, but it would let you make a more robust system with late game materials that are incredibly hard to get. I think that's fair and better than the current gel use, given you can get pretty much get the same liquid lock effect with gel as with crude oil + petroleum right now and it's more of a novelty than a significant improvement.

[marioespinho 96]

There is a discussion going on in another thread just below this one: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/127416-why-still-no-air-lock-module-after-several-years/page/3/#comments

[sakura_sk 677]

"We" ..?

We need less duplicate topics... 

[ZombieDupe 98]

Oh... ah, but this was a sneaky sneak for Klei to notice! If they merge the topics, they admit they acknowledge the problem but are ignoring it. Haha, I got them now

[marioespinho 96]

I think it is pretty clear that they are more than aware, and don't adress it because they don't see it as a problem. To be honest, i don't either.

[Yunru 1560]

21 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

If they merge the topics, they admit they acknowledge the problem but are ignoring it

Uh no, the only problem is someone making duplicate threads :P

 

You saying it's a problem, does not make it a problem. 

 

We have everything we need for functional airlocks (and only have limited need for that with liquid locks around). With better stuff we could have more effective airlocks, but that's a "would be nice", certainly not a "need". 

Edited March 4 by Yunru

[babba 1460]

Can or will GassyMooReproduction happen in Viscogelvaselineairlocks

One day the legendary Magma Engine may be in the game.

[ZombieDupe 98]

On 3/4/2021 at 12:25 AM, Yunru said:

Uh no, the only problem is someone making duplicate threads :P

 

You saying it's a problem, does not make it a problem. 

 

We have everything we need for functional airlocks (and only have limited need for that with liquid locks around). With better stuff we could have more effective airlocks, but that's a "would be nice", certainly not a "need". 

Uh, yes! For many people it is a need and without it being addressed will either play without mods or stop playing the game entirely. When something is unnecessarily frustrating or annoying devs should look to change that. There are a bunch of bugs in the game that are not needed to be addressed because they will do something minute that doesn't matter, even like animation glitches or it showing that you are lacking materials when you aren't, but you're probably not doing a good job as a developer if you don't address them when found. By that train of thought need is applicable exactly nowhere and you're talking useless nonsense.

Currently it is needed for us to make liquid locks which are finnicky or a highly complex, power-intensive system that slows down the more pressure gets inside the middle chamber. I don't like that. Does anybody like that? Simplify this with two new specialized buildings and many more people will thank you!

Edited March 5 by ZombieDupe

[babba 1460]

Maybe player requests of an airlock building could be combined with past player requests for insulated doors = Insulated airlock building

Construction ingredient list:

Viscogel, Steel, Plastic, Nobium, Gassymoomilk ( makes the insulation plastic more smooth and soft )

Edited March 5 by babba

[marioespinho 96]

57 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

Uh, yes! For many people it is a need and without it being addressed will either play without mods or stop playing the game entirely. When something is unnecessarily frustrating or annoying devs should look to change that. There are a bunch of bugs in the game that are not needed to be addressed because they will do something minute that doesn't matter, even like animation glitches or it showing that you are lacking materials when you aren't, but you're probably not doing a good job as a developer if you don't address them when found. By that train of thought need is applicable exactly nowhere and you're talking useless nonsense.

Currently it is needed for us to make liquid locks which are finnicky or a highly complex, power-intensive system that slows down the more pressure gets inside the middle chamber. I don't like that. Does anybody like that? Simplify this with two new specialized buildings and many more people will thank you!

That makes no sense at all.

You are not talking about a bug. You are asking for a specific building to be added to satisfy YOUR "needs".  You even have such building available in the workshop, taking you like a minute to download. You refusing to do so only shows that you are more concerned with ranting rather than doing something about it. It makes no sense at all to wave the "we will go play something else" flag just because devs aren't implementing everything players want.

Hell, that is the whole point of even existing a workshop. So players can create whatever they feel like it could be in the game. If everytime a few players demand something added, the devs run on to put in the game, then there is no point in having a workshop, is there?

Also, there is no "need" whatsoever to make liquid locks. You can make your own airlock, with pumps, doors, automation and whatnot. It actually isn't hard at all.

- You don't want to make liquid locks.

- You also don't want to create a custom airlock.

- You don't want to use the workshop airlocks either.

Don't know what else to tell you, to be honest. It just sounds that you let the feeling of entitlement get in the way of enjoying what the game has to offer.

Edited March 5 by marioespinho

[Kderosa 62]

Viscogel is a pretty good solution except in extreme heat or cold situations. The only real issue is that it tends to be available well after you need to make air locks. Otherwise, liquid locks work well and handle extremes pretty good too if you use crude oil or petroleum which unfortuanayely are difficult to come by on most of the moonlets.  

[sakura_sk 677]

5 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

When something is unnecessarily frustrating or annoying devs should look to change that.

You could chill a little while playing ONI maybe...? As I see it, everything in ONI is unnecessary and frustrating. 

Why dupes have to eat-sleep-relaxe-breath? Why gases/liquids stack that way? Why pipes can't be built without excavating the tile but can be built inside an already built tile? Why is oxygen still insufficient after building 10 oxygen diffusers?!

It will be a million questions the first 20-50 hours of play. Then it will be another million for the "why isn't this building in the game" ones for the 50~100-1000~1500 hours

After some point you stop asking "why" and start figuring out "how" I can build that in order to work (...or it's just me  )

[Magheat2009 30]

I see making air tight rooms with duplicant access as primary use for transit tubes. Some players might not be aware that they can be used in that way, game can do a better job of informing players of that. 

[Cybeon 21]

If such building would be available I would wish it becomes available on the very late stage of the game. Far beyond visco gel.

Most of the fun of this game is in using game mechanics and game physics to your advantage. Liquid locks (especially stackable ones) petroleum and gas boilers, heat exchangers, bead pumps - all this is why I like ONI. I would really like to see more of this (Maybe some chemistry in future?). 
Replace all of that with boring buildings and game loses 90% of the fun..

[SharraShimada 967]

I suggest KLEI gives us a proper airlock. 100% sealed but its dimensions are 10 wide 10 high, using 5000 kilowatts and takes 1 minute to pass. 

 

[JRup 264]

52 minutes ago, SharraShimada said:

I suggest KLEI gives us a proper airlock. 100% sealed but its dimensions are 10 wide 10 high, using 5000 kilowatts and takes 1 minute to pass.

Per dupe.

[marioespinho 96]

44 minutes ago, JRup said:

Per dupe.

nahh, constant 5000, plus an additional 1000 everytime a dupe walks in or out.

[JRup 264]

39 minutes ago, marioespinho said:

nahh, constant 5000, plus an additional 1000 everytime a dupe walks in or out.

For high power consumption we could have airlock/matter force fields à la Star Trek ... In-game does state that the mother planet is sealed with some such thing and dupes can't even land there so ... And it'd be funny enough to have one of those fields fail on account of power blip.

[ZombieDupe 98]

15 hours ago, marioespinho said:

That makes no sense at all.

You are not talking about a bug. You are asking for a specific building to be added to satisfy YOUR "needs".  You even have such building available in the workshop, taking you like a minute to download. You refusing to do so only shows that you are more concerned with ranting rather than doing something about it. It makes no sense at all to wave the "we will go play something else" flag just because devs aren't implementing everything players want.

Hell, that is the whole point of even existing a workshop. So players can create whatever they feel like it could be in the game. If everytime a few players demand something added, the devs run on to put in the game, then there is no point in having a workshop, is there?

Also, there is no "need" whatsoever to make liquid locks. You can make your own airlock, with pumps, doors, automation and whatnot. It actually isn't hard at all.

- You don't want to make liquid locks.

- You also don't want to create a custom airlock.

- You don't want to use the workshop airlocks either.

Don't know what else to tell you, to be honest. It just sounds that you let the feeling of entitlement get in the way of enjoying what the game has to offer.

Making lots of assumptions here. Never said I don't use mods, never said I personally refuse to play (though it is incredibly discouraging). Mods through regular updates can become outdated and that will mean I can't play the game at times.

I addressed the custom airlock already, and no I don't want to make it. We shouldn't have to do that. Nor a liquid lock. It's ridiculously niche and kind of exploitative, rarely anyone would discover them on their own and they are very prone to breaking. A proper airlock feature has been requested by a lot of people too, I'm not just spouting random nonsense as if I'm the only one the game should cater to.

5 hours ago, Cybeon said:

If such building would be available I would wish it becomes available on the very late stage of the game. Far beyond visco gel.

Most of the fun of this game is in using game mechanics and game physics to your advantage. Liquid locks (especially stackable ones) petroleum and gas boilers, heat exchangers, bead pumps - all this is why I like ONI. I would really like to see more of this (Maybe some chemistry in future?). 
Replace all of that with boring buildings and game loses 90% of the fun..

I hate making liquid locks and plenty more people find them finnicky. These features being implemented doesn't mean you won't be able to use the liquid locks that you thirst over for some reason. It will add options, and convenient ones to take away frustration. I like a challenge, but not when it makes me frustrated for no reason. To me I will get 90% more fun having those buildings, so there is that. You won't lose anything, you will be able to keep making all the liquid locks you want. The hoops you need to go through for visco gel in the DLC, I think it's fair if you get to make pass-through tiles with it and having a decently high melting point, and if it melts it might not break, giving you a warning to tackle the issue of too high temperatures before the gel boils.

10 hours ago, sakura_sk said:

You could chill a little while playing ONI maybe...? As I see it, everything in ONI is unnecessary and frustrating. 

Why dupes have to eat-sleep-relaxe-breath? Why gases/liquids stack that way? Why pipes can't be built without excavating the tile but can be built inside an already built tile? Why is oxygen still insufficient after building 10 oxygen diffusers?!

It will be a million questions the first 20-50 hours of play. Then it will be another million for the "why isn't this building in the game" ones for the 50~100-1000~1500 hours

After some point you stop asking "why" and start figuring out "how" I can build that in order to work (...or it's just me  )

Even more nonsense, I think I'll just start ignoring these garbage arguments, people here are basically trying to argue against a feature that would make the game more enjoyable, this is ridiculous. Not everything can be worked out in a timely manner, the whole eat-sleep-relax-breathe is what gives the game challenge, and it is not annoyingly frustrating. You can overcome those obstacles by learning and it's actually fun. Overcoming finnicky nature of liquid locks or way-too-complex custom airlocks, there is no way to get that done without it being annoying.

5 hours ago, Magheat2009 said:

I see making air tight rooms with duplicant access as primary use for transit tubes. Some players might not be aware that they can be used in that way, game can do a better job of informing players of that. 

That is a decent argument, but the tubes are not an option for anything that has a higher temperature than 160C on either side. It's more useful for travelling across large areas. A petroleum-only liquid lock can withstand almost up to 500C by comparison. And again, more options!

[babba 1460]

Airlock building ideas

Airlock - Nice and big, heavy door - Yummyumm

The door could break somehow, I always wanted to have the welder profession in the game.

Welding > Spark > Fire > Combustion > Explosion > Spreading Fires

There is a reason why bank heist movies and heist games/missions are popular

Maybe "diving" deeper than 10 tiles of water also requires a diving airlock ... +submarine and dupe snorkels.

Moon Pool - Enables dupe diving

Compression / Decompression Chamber

2 hours ago, JRup said:

For high power consumption we could have airlock/matter force fields à la Star Trek ... In-game does state that the mother planet is sealed with some such thing and dupes can't even land there so ... And it'd be funny enough to have one of those fields fail on account of power blip.

I like equipment which shuts off due to power fails. Several of these kind of power-fail buildings can cause a player created colony emergency, which is therefore user created content...which can be exciting to experience and play.

@ZombieDupe

Edited March 5 by babba

[Yunru 1560]

36 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

We shouldn't have to do that.

Why not? 

It's what you have to do for everything else; for power, for oxygen, even for things like refineries you have to set up a system to handle the coolant. 

 

Why should airlock be any different, just because you say they should (especially without any supporting reason)? 

38 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

I think it's fair if you get to make pass-through tiles with it and having a decently high melting point

Dude. You. Are describing. Visco Gel. As it already is. 

32 minutes ago, babba said:

Yummyumm

Bad Babba! Not eating the airlock! 

[marioespinho 96]

23 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

I addressed the custom airlock already, and no I don't want to make it. We shouldn't have to do that. Nor a liquid lock. It's ridiculously niche and kind of exploitative, rarely anyone would discover them on their own and they are very prone to breaking. A proper airlock feature has been requested by a lot of people too, I'm not just spouting random nonsense as if I'm the only one the game should cater to.

LMAO ! A liquid lock is "niche, kind of exploitative and rarely anyone would discover them on their own"? What? You serious? Also, just because some people request a feature, that doesn't mean that it should be in the game. You may not be the only one, but you don't speak for the whole community either.

27 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

Even more nonsense, I think I'll just start ignoring these garbage arguments, people here are basically trying to argue against a feature that would make the game more enjoyable, this is ridiculous.

So basically, comments that don't agree with yours are "garbage". I'm sorry but neither you, me or anyone else get to be gatekeepers of what makes or doesn't make this game enjoyable. I get tons of enjoyment out of this game, as do a lot of people. You want to make a request or ask for a feature? Fine! Just use the appropriate section instead of making it like this should 100% be a part of the game or it's less fun. If you lose 90% of the fun, or find it annoying to deal with aspects of the game, then maybe the game isn't for you.

What's really ridiculous is that you DO HAVE options available to you. You just don't wan't (or at least you argue against them) to use them. Yet you come rant on the forums, out of a sense of entitlement, like you are the dictator of what is or isn't fun in this game.

[Gurgel 2383]

Just one word: NO! 

And I strongly object your use of "we". I am not part of that "we" you use in a most presumptuous and insulting way to claim more importance for your arguments that they actually have. _You_ may _want_ proper airlocks, but their neither is a _need_ for them nor do _we_ ask for them. 

[ImDaMisterL 21107]

Hey everyone, just a friendly reminder to keep posts constructive and on topic. Thanks

[JRup 264]

45 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

Nor a liquid lock. It's ridiculously niche and kind of exploitative, rarely anyone would discover them on their own and they are very prone to breaking.

I beg to differ somewhat on the general accepted fact that they are prone to breaking.

I won't say liquid locks aren't delicate but will argue against using them without proper planning against dupedom. I've kept some for thousands of cycles and they work wonderfully. I've yet to find the need to use the full 100kg of visco gel for a single lock. I routinely stack 2kg of naphta and visco gel each and I'm done with the liquid lock itself. For me the concept of creating untold amounts of visco gel for only two or three locks is nonsense. Coincidentally, the only liquids to measure are naphta and visco gel. The other two in the picture are petro and super coolant. They can just flow down the "staircase" and have appropriate amounts for bottling (same goes for other liquids, but the build just has these ).

Inside the spoiler a screenshot for my bottling station:

Spoiler

My recent new game starts actually have polluted water and water locks. Sopping wet? IDC, you go dupe.