Technoincubus

Why still no Air Lock module after several years?

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Yunru    1543
8 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Another solution would be a 1x2 tile super vacuum pump

Give me a door that works like a duplicant checkpoint (well, and is also bidirectional) and I can give you a 5x3 airlock. 

Better pumps would be nice, better ways of restricting dupe movement without cancelling tasks would be even nicer. 

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Niil945    29
21 hours ago, Sasza22 said:

Ok, so the issue is that an airlock building needs to be better than a waterlock basically.

I disagree. I'd rather use an airlock than a liquid lock, even if the liquid lock is power free. Liquid locks seem cheesy to me as the end all be all solution to gas transfer. It's silly to me that you say that a buildable airlock that consumes resources and power would trivialize the game, particularly when you admit that an airlock would have to be better than a liquid lock to be used. What does that say about liquid locks that we all use now?

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marioespinho    90
1 hour ago, Niil945 said:

I disagree. I'd rather use an airlock than a liquid lock, even if the liquid lock is power free. Liquid locks seem cheesy to me as the end all be all solution to gas transfer. It's silly to me that you say that a buildable airlock that consumes resources and power would trivialize the game, particularly when you admit that an airlock would have to be better than a liquid lock to be used. What does that say about liquid locks that we all use now?

So you feel like it's cheesy to have a liquid lock, but you don't think it is also cheesy to have a door, or similar, that is "the end all be all solution to gas transfer" ? Because the way i see it, they work the exact same way.  And unless the airlock had significant drawbacks, wich would, in turn, make almost no one use them, they would be just as cheesy as liquid locks.

Apart from that, a door would have no problem with being too cold or too hot, problem that exists in liquid locks ( and broke some of mine already), while not giving any debuffs either. Sure they would use power, but i don't see how a low power drain here and there would be any type of problem to anyone.

I can't really see how would any airlock be any less cheesy that the current liquid locks, to be honest.

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Sasza22    3078
2 hours ago, Niil945 said:

It's silly to me that you say that a buildable airlock that consumes resources and power would trivialize the game, particularly when you admit that an airlock would have to be better than a liquid lock to be used. What does that say about liquid locks that we all use now?

Waterlocks are easy but as i mentioned they can be customized with different liquids and tiles to deal better with different temperatures. All i am saying is that when we add a simplier setup it makes it even more trivial than it currently is. There would be no other option but just building that one airlock as it will become the end game choice gas seals.

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Gurgel    2302
8 minutes ago, Sasza22 said:

Waterlocks are easy but as i mentioned they can be customized with different liquids and tiles to deal better with different temperatures. All i am saying is that when we add a simplier setup it makes it even more trivial than it currently is. There would be no other option but just building that one airlock as it will become the end game choice gas seals.

Pretty much. I think it would take away from the game without any good reason. Now, if ONI had a far deeper research structure, it might be something for end-game, but it does not and visco-gel serves nicely for end-game.

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Dubiday    17
1 hour ago, marioespinho said:

I can't really see how would any airlock be any less cheesy that the current liquid locks, to be honest.

ONI isn't a simulation of the real world, yet it kinda tries to act like one. It takes liberties to make the game more enjoyable and simple, but generally tries to stay close to reality in a way or another. Liquid locks are cheesy because they are too far from reality, it's just something that exists in ONI because the game allows us to do so. A building would be close enough to reality, it wouldn't be immersion breaking.

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ZombieDupe    89
On 3/2/2021 at 11:03 PM, Sasza22 said:

Another solution would be a 1x2 tile super vacuum pump. Remember how the old gas mask station sucked all the oxygen creating vacuums? We need a pump that can suck in more oxygen than it can pump out. It would hold 6-8 tiles worth of gas in it`s internal storage and create vacuum in seconds which would make a 3 tile wide manual airlock setup completely sealed provided the traffic is low. I think we would gladly use one of those even if it had 480-600W power usage. It could also find uses in oxygen generating setups.

With high pressure this is basically impossible due to the limit on how much pressure can be in a single vent and pipe segment. If we had high pressure pipe variants on the other hand, then we'd be talking!

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marioespinho    90
1 hour ago, Gurgel said:

Pretty much. I think it would take away from the game without any good reason.

This sentence pretty much sums up my take on proper airlocks. Could they exist? Sure. Are they "needed"? not at all.

13 minutes ago, Dubiday said:

ONI isn't a simulation of the real world, yet it kinda tries to act like one. It takes liberties to make the game more enjoyable and simple, but generally tries to stay close to reality in a way or another. Liquid locks are cheesy because they are too far from reality, it's just something that exists in ONI because the game allows us to do so. A building would be close enough to reality, it wouldn't be immersion breaking.

I strongly disagree with this. There are way more things in oni that are far from reality than those that are close. Also, apart from reality similarities, this is supposed to be a game about coming up with ways to deal with the various problems the game throws at you, and that is the reason why i think Klei never implemented airlocks to begin with.

A major part of the fun is in using whatever way you can to deal with those things. Some people will like complex stuff, others will like cheap and effective setups, but all of them are player made, wich i believe is what devs intended to be. And for those like you, that would rather have a building for this, or other things in the game, the devs allowed the workshop to have such buildings for them too.

The options are there for whoever wants them. If those people choose not to use them, then it's their choice, not Klei's fault.

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Lwt    3

People act like there's no way to make both systems work. It doesn't require a lot of imagination to come up with drawback to an airlock system that still would make liquid locks work.

One, off the top of my head, could be time. An airlock would require that one door must be closed before another could open. Equalizing the air pressure also takes time. Then there's things like power requirements and automation as some has already mentioned. It's all about balancing drawbacks and advantages and tweaking the numbers. And more options is never a bad thing in this game. Preferences aside, there would be situations where one system is more efficient than the other.

Edited by Lwt

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RageLeague    1448
3 hours ago, Dubiday said:

Liquid locks are cheesy because they are too far from reality, it's just something that exists in ONI because the game allows us to do so. A building would be close enough to reality, it wouldn't be immersion breaking.

Counterargument: liquid lock is used in real life. Consider how your toilet or your sink works. Without the liquid, you will directly smell the fresh pox from your sewers.

The liquid lock that just occupies a tiny bit of a corner and somehow still works is just bs, though. Also, in this game, pascal's law doesn't apply, so you can use water to separate vacuum and high pressure gas.

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Yunru    1543
5 hours ago, Lwt said:

People act like there's no way to make both systems work. It doesn't require a lot of imagination to come up with drawback to an airlock system that still would make liquid locks work.

One, off the top of my head, could be time. An airlock would require that one door must be closed before another could open. Equalizing the air pressure also takes time. Then there's things like power requirements and automation as some has already mentioned. It's all about balancing drawbacks and advantages and tweaking the numbers. And more options is never a bad thing in this game. Preferences aside, there would be situations where one system is more efficient than the other.

Good news then, that already exists in game! 

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The Plum Gate    715
10 hours ago, sakura_sk said:

I made rovers make liquid locks :victorious:

Just that makes me happy :-D

Has anyone tried landing the rovers at the bottom of the ocean moonlet?

This is like a tabs or spaces thread isn't it?

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Sasza22    3078
16 hours ago, ZombieDupe said:

With high pressure this is basically impossible due to the limit on how much pressure can be in a single vent and pipe segment. If we had high pressure pipe variants on the other hand, then we'd be talking!

It actually is but not in the long run. The trick is to pump a lot of gas to the pump internal storage, faster than it can pump it out. This way it creates vacuum easily in a confined space. After it has nothing more to suck in it empties it`s storage into the pipe. A pump like this would work amazing for airlocks where it`s more important to get rid of the gas inside than to pump it to it`s destination. For normal applications it would likely get filled fast and just pump stuff with the max pipe capacity.

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Gurgel    2302
13 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

This is like a tabs or spaces thread isn't it?

Spaces! Seriously! Tabs are an invention from hell, how dare you suggest they are even an alternative! 

Hehehehehehe.... ;-)

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sakura_sk    610
14 hours ago, The Plum Gate said:

This is like a tabs or spaces thread isn't it?

lol I just figure out what that was :-D I was lost in translation for a moment... :hopelessness:

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RageLeague    1448

For the real monstrosity, mix and match tabs and spaces arbitrarily, and watch as they don't align when you look at the code on a browser instead of an ide.

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babba    1389
1 hour ago, RageLeague said:

For the real monstrosity, mix and match tabs and spaces arbitrarily, and watch as they don't align when you look at the code on a browser instead of an ide.

Ide > The Ides of March = Great movie :excitement:

Ide - Collins English Dictionary:

1. (added to the combining form of the nonmetallic or electronegative elements)
indicating a binary compound
sodium chloride
2.
indicating an organic compound derived from another
acetanilide
3.
indicating one of a class of compounds or elements
peptide
lanthanide

 
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RageLeague    1448
56 minutes ago, babba said:

Ide > The Ides of March = Great movie :excitement:

Ide - Collins English Dictionary:

1. (added to the combining form of the nonmetallic or electronegative elements)
indicating a binary compound
sodium chloride
2.
indicating an organic compound derived from another
acetanilide
3.
indicating one of a class of compounds or elements
peptide
lanthanide

 

Sure, whatever you said.

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Tytan    81
On 3/3/2021 at 5:02 AM, Yunru said:

Give me a door that works like a duplicant checkpoint (well, and is also bidirectional) and I can give you a 5x3 airlock. 

Better pumps would be nice, better ways of restricting dupe movement without cancelling tasks would be even nicer. 

I agree with everything

on better pumps, I even use a mod that increases the pressure that the pipes support, it would be very good pipes and high pressure pumps, both internal "in the pipes", both to suck as much to release

  and this question of the pathfinder do not halt and making the dupe forget the task but waiting for the inspection is great, by the way ... in the current course it has to be necessary since there will be a decontamination bath, which technically is the same as an air lock

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Gurgel    2302
16 hours ago, RageLeague said:

For the real monstrosity, mix and match tabs and spaces arbitrarily, and watch as they don't align when you look at the code on a browser instead of an ide.

And for extra credit, do that while coding in Python!

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RageLeague    1448
25 minutes ago, Gurgel said:

And for extra credit, do that while coding in Python!

Nah, that would immediately fail your code, in which case the problem gets fixed immediately.

The real monstrosity is working on a language that does not rely on matching indent, and you won't notice the problem until your repo is filled with those.

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Lwt    3
On 3/4/2021 at 9:16 AM, Yunru said:

Good news then, that already exists in game! 

Maybe so, but they are vastly inferior to liquid locks. Too power intensive and time consuming. And tweaking the numbers (power req. operation speed) on individual objects in order to make the system viable will cause balancing problems elsewhere, whereas a dedicated system (i.e. building) for this could have variables that are more easily tweaked without breaking the rest of the game.

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Yunru    1543
1 hour ago, Lwt said:

Maybe so, but they are vastly inferior to liquid locks. Too power intensive and time consuming. And tweaking the numbers (power req. operation speed) on individual objects in order to make the system viable will cause balancing problems elsewhere, whereas a dedicated system (i.e. building) for this could have variables that are more easily tweaked without breaking the rest of the game.

Y'got me there. 

It wouldn't be totally useless if dupes couldn't leap through liquids without getting wet. 

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