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ArubaroBeefalo    7787
2 minutes ago, SnoByrd said:

A lot of the argument's for Wes is "He's supposed to be bad." Which translates directly into "He's badly designed on purpose." Cool. He still sucks though.

What people said is that he is suppose to be difficult which doesnt mean he has a bad desing

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SnoByrd    130
8 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

What does this mean?

You literally just said they should, dude. That's your reason for why Wes doesn't need to be a challenge character.

That isn't a challenge character. If there is a reward, that is not a challenge character. The only "challenge" something in Dead By Daylight is the perk No Mither which makes you get downed in one hit and offers basically no upsides in exchange for that.

I don't know why you don't get this.

 What I'm saying is saying he's supposed to be garbage doesn't mean he's well designed and therefore it shouldn't be used to justify leaving him in the state he's in.

And I hope I don't come off as rude, but please reread what I said. I think you misread "mode" as "mod." I never brought up mods.

And why does rewarding people for a challenge make it not a challenge anymore? And people want No Mither reworked too, because it's a waste of programming in the sate it's in.

Edit: Mistype

Edited by SnoByrd

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Cheggf    2485
1 minute ago, SnoByrd said:

 What I'm saying is saying he's supposed to be garbage doesn't mean he's well designed and therefore it shouldn't be used to justify leaving him in the state he's in.

A character being weak does not mean they're poorly designed.

1 minute ago, SnoByrd said:

I think you misread "mode" as "mod." I never brought up mods.

Uncompromising mode is a mod.

2 minutes ago, SnoByrd said:

And why does rewarding people for a challenge make it not a challenge anymore?

Challenge characters are designed to add to the challenge. If they are difficult to play but reward your efforts that is not making the game harder, that is making the game easier for anyone good enough to muster the challenge. Why is it that Nurse, when played well, is the killer that kills the most survivors? If picking her makes the game a lot harder and she were a challenge character she should be killing the least.

3 minutes ago, SnoByrd said:

Why does rewarding people for a challenge make it not a challenge? I've never heard this before.

Are you being disingenuous on purpose? I've never heard that before either because you're the only person who's ever said anything remotely similar to that. The word challenge and the concept of challenge characters are not the same thing.

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SnoByrd    130
1 hour ago, gaymime said:

why do people keep confusing "challenging" with "more complicated to play". a challenge isnt much of a challenge if all it does it make you wait for a little bit before becoming way easier. but hey, good to know all the ps4 and xbox peeps can just have uncompromising mode turned on :/

 

actually, while i am here does "uncompromising" still have easy-mode hay fever and have ferns as a crockpot food(and a viable recipe) and an ice-staff boomerang and a veggie meatloaf that is as good as meatballs and lasts 20 days and a salt-flinging gun that also makes you move faster and an unbreakable electric bug torch and a sanity regening chiminea and goggles with 120 insulation+sanity regen+increased vision+speed boost?

The main reason I dislike how Wes is designed isn't because he's hard to play. It's because he's just default with some balloons and faster hunger drain. Wormwood is a better challenge character because they're interesting, unique, and reward you for playing to the characters strengths while overcoming their downsides. 

Compared to that, Wes is kind of bland. And I apologize, I wasn't aware that uncompromising mode wasn't available to console players. However, I think you can still adjust world settings to increase difficulty, correct me if I'm wrong. The issue with Wes is there's nearly no reason to play him outside of "I want a challenge." when you can simply adjust settings and get rid of the thing that makes him unique. You can't do that with any other character. Wes feels very unfinished compared to the rest of the cast.

6 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

A character being weak does not mean they're poorly designed.

Uncompromising mode is a mod.

Challenge characters are designed to add to the challenge. If they are difficult to play but reward your efforts that is not making the game harder, that is making the game easier for anyone good enough to muster the challenge. Why is it that Nurse, when played well, is the killer that kills the most survivors? If picking her makes the game a lot harder and she were a challenge character she should be killing the least.

Are you being disingenuous on purpose? I've never heard that before either because you're the only person who's ever said anything remotely similar to that. The word challenge and the concept of challenge characters are not the same thing.

He's weak and that's it. Compared to the rest of the cast and what they can and can't do, Wes seems very unfinished.

And I'll take the L on that one. My dumb brain forgot that that was a mod. My bad.

And I see what you mean. I think we came at this from very different views where I viewed a challenge character as something that would reward the player for their efforts in the long run and your view was a character that added a consistent layer of difficulty to spice up gameplay. I respect your opinion and understand your view, but I still would like to see ways where Wes can be improved to make him more interesting and to better benefit a team oriented game.

As for that last sentence, that was a typo. Sorry about that.

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ArubaroBeefalo    7787
9 minutes ago, Souper said:

 You aren't helping your team in a unique way that Woodie could, or Wendy could, or Maxwell could, or Wigfrid could etc.

he can help in hound waves with his balloons

checkmate

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Mike23Ua    9598
33 minutes ago, Souper said:

I don't think people are understanding what the problem is with Wes. Just because a character can hold their own with Wes doesn't mean he brings anything unique to the cooperative game. For one, Wes consumes more food on average, and secondly, doesn't really provide anything useful to a team. Some people say he can farm nightmare fuel effectively, but so can a bajillion other characters. At the moment, picking Wes is just picking Wilson with downsides. You aren't helping your team in a unique way that Woodie could, or Wendy could, or Maxwell could, or Wigfrid could etc. It's super annoying when I start up a world, and the first person to join is a Wes who has nothing unique they can bring to the table. They can be as supportive as they want, but at the end of the day it would have been much better if they joined as almost anyone else (save for Wilson).

Obviously though, this is getting into weird territory since you should be able to play whomever you want to.

Actually.. people tend to forget that Wilson can PASSIVELY Grow Beard Hair... You know, the stuff WILLOW Needs to create more BERNIE Dolls with? So even in his current state WES Is still the absolute most Horrible character choice ANYONE (no matter how skilled or unskilled they are at the game) can pick.. And Why? BECAUSE he has nothing Unique or Interesting to offer a TEAM.

There is a legitimate Reasoning why you see so many rooms labeled as Pick Wes = Ban and that’s because in his Current State- Picking Wes just means your being that prick who could’ve literally picked ANYONE else and offered a TEAM something Unique (yes Including Wilson & his Beard Hair for Bernie’s..) 

What if Wes was the ONLY Character in the ENTIRE game that could craft the 12 Flower Head Garland? Or Garlands crafted by Wes gave other Non-Wes players using it as much Sanity as a Top Hat or Tam’O?

Wes worked FINE in Single Player DS Because you were the ONLY person playing the game.. but throw in 5 Human Controlled TEAMMATES & Wes becomes the Weakest link (Sorry Good Bye)

There are a Bajillion Million ways that Klei COULD and SHOULD Rework Wes.. & I hope they’re paying attention to this Thread.

And can we please stop debating if rather characters in some other game are challenging or not? Please guys provide valid reasons as to WHY Wes should remain exactly like he is now or should be changed.

And With that said- I leave by reminding everyone that no matter how “Default” Wilson is he can still passively grow a beard that’s good for Winter Survival, and for shaving off to help Willow build Bernie dolls, and also for higher tier magic stuffs like Meat Effigy. (And as useless as that sounds to a experienced player, I am 100% sure some Beginner players ESPECIALLY the ones who do not yet know how to acquire beard hair by any other methods appreciate his gimmicky perk.)

Wes Needs to change.

Edited by Mike23Ua
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Sluvia    5

Here's the simple fix, remove wes from multiplayer, or only use him with a bunch of other mimes willing to hurt themselves, otherwise get used to the hate 

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Mike23Ua    9598
26 minutes ago, Sluvia said:

Here's the simple fix, remove wes from multiplayer, or only use him with a bunch of other mimes willing to hurt themselves, otherwise get used to the hate 

No offense, as I’m sure this is just a joke- but that is the worst idea ever. No I’m not being mean or anything.. Wes has some really really good skins (some of the absolute best in the game actually) It wouldn’t make sense to remove Wes (and all the money Klei makes off skin sales for Wes) I think even the people who don’t want Wes to get a rework at all would give in and agree to make him more easily accessible to players if that meant more $$ in Klei’s pockets from his skins (and probably even personal belongings set) rather than just- send him the way of Warbucks.

As much as I dislike Wes in his current form for DST.. I had absolutely no problem with him for DSA.

Don’t delete Wes.. he has good skins but maybe, consider making playing as him fun, unique, interesting & it probably wouldn’t even hurt to make him a bit easier to pick up & play as either.

After all- they can always just add a Hardcore Mode, or a Classic DSA mode to the game.

In fact I hope they DO add a DSA Mode to DST that lets you play the game Pre Return of Them content & Character rework updates.

Then EVERYONE can be happy, Klei hopefully makes tons of money & we can get some really amazing content updates out of all of that. 

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HowlVoid    1058

Im sad to see the entire concept of Wes going to waste. He could have a whole slew of interesting perks and abilities that is a mime. I could care less of what people define a challenge character to be or their interpretation of what Wes should be. I hope Klei makes the right choice and completely reworks him to free him from the shackles this community has placed on him. Everyone in the constant is growing in power as a direct response to events unfolding and new threats surfacing. Leaving Wes behind to fill a niche roll is really, really selfish to him both as a concept and a character.

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Mysterious box    525

Ironically food restrictive characters tend to be the hardest characters for people to handle simply because food is so powerful and so readily available you could legitimately destory Wolfgang for alot of people simply by adding food memory or removing healing and removing his sanity drain. No matter what they do for wes I feel like a food downside would be best to up his challenge. If I were to add one it would be

-downside small eater he can only eat something once per half day and it'll draw the aggro of all mobs.

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Scrimbles    4040
On 1/15/2021 at 6:02 PM, gaymime said:

dude, a character is only dead-weight is the player is dead-weight

Objectively false.

Wilson wastes less time and weapon durability in fights, and wastes less food.

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Mike23Ua    9598
11 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

-downside loud* eater he can only eat something once per half day and his unusually loud crunching & smacking will draw the aggro of all mobs.

Fixed that for You. ;) 

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Cheggf    2485
4 hours ago, Sluvia said:

Here's the simple fix, remove wes from multiplayer, or only use him with a bunch of other mimes willing to hurt themselves, otherwise get used to the hate 

Here's a simple fix: if you only want people tryharding as the same 3-5ish characters, play on private servers. For every Wes that's problematic there's 40 problematic Wilsons and 80 problematic Webbers.

23 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

Objectively false.

Wilson wastes less time and weapon durability in fights, and wastes less food.

So him soloing Dragonfly and bringing 3 stacks of every plantable to the base is useless dead weight because his infinite durability ham bat took more swings and he ate a few extra berries?

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Scrimbles    4040
5 minutes ago, Cheggf said:

 

So him soloing Dragonfly and bringing 3 stacks of every plantable to the base is useless dead weight because his infinite durability ham bat took more swings and he ate a few extra berries?

Picking a character who does that worse, and wastes more resources, for zero upside, yes.

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gaymime    5010
8 hours ago, Cheggf said:

Challenge characters are designed to add to the challenge. If they are difficult to play but reward your efforts that is not making the game harder, that is making the game easier for anyone good enough to muster the challenge.

this is exactly it! chef's kiss, my dude!

10 hours ago, SnoByrd said:

Wes is kind of bland. And I apologize, I wasn't aware that uncompromising mode wasn't available to console players. However, I think you can still adjust world settings to increase difficulty, correct me if I'm wrong. The issue with Wes is there's nearly no reason to play him outside of "I want a challenge." when you can simply adjust settings and get rid of the thing that makes him unique.

And I see what you mean. I think we came at this from very different views where I viewed a challenge character as something that would reward the player for their efforts in the long run and your view was a character that added a consistent layer of difficulty to spice up gameplay.

to be fair calling him bland it totally justified. he still has the same build he did in 2013 and that isnt super novel anymore especially considering he was built for solo play while all of the newer chars and refreshed chars are built to work in conjunction with at least one other player of a different style. that being said, and this is only my opinion, that isnt a bad thing on its own. some people(myself included) do play with only themselves so the lack of synergy isnt a deterant

this is true but the bulk of players both on forum and off get really sketchy if the world is not set to default, there is also the issue of wes being a player-imposed restriction while alternate world generation still affects other people. in solo this is of course null but in pubs it is kind of a big deal for a lot of people

yeah, i am also of the 'challenge persists' group

 

8 hours ago, Souper said:

I don't think people are understanding what the problem is with Wes. Just because a character can hold their own with Wes doesn't mean he brings anything unique to the cooperative game. For one, Wes consumes more food on average, and secondly, doesn't really provide anything useful to a team. Some people say he can farm nightmare fuel effectively, but so can a bajillion other characters. At the moment, picking Wes is just picking Wilson with downsides. You aren't helping your team in a unique way that Woodie could, or Wendy could, or Maxwell could, or Wigfrid could etc. It's super annoying when I start up a world, and the first person to join is a Wes who has nothing unique they can bring to the table. They can be as supportive as they want, but at the end of the day it would have been much better if they joined as almost anyone else (save for Wilson).

Obviously though, this is getting into weird territory since you should be able to play whomever you want to.

yeah but the problem with that logic is assuming every wendy uses sistern and every woodie knows how to moose/goose or that all maxwells know how to fight. in an ideal setting sure wes is the least generous with boons for other players but i still stand behind the value of the player over the value of the character and accounting for skill level it isnt really reasonable to have his bonuses as his only value

 

8 hours ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

meanwhile you see many wendys, wigfrids, etc dying by starvation and that banned wes is rushing a boss in other server

i mean.. well i have fed a lot of wendys in my time x''D for sure though, i am scared of bossrush wes too

 

 

 

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Mike23Ua    9598
15 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

Picking a character who does that worse, and wastes more resources, for zero upside, yes.

I think we’re wasting our words, they aren’t going to understand it. They need to compare the already Reworked characters and the DLC characters to the ones Not Yet Reworked to see how and Why they need to change.

Wes could provide players that are near him with an encouragement damage buff (because they work fight extra hard to keep their weak as heck friend alive) and he would instantly become more useful then he is currently.

Wes himself gains nothing beneficial but when characters are near him (including another Wes) he could provide Abigail like AOE damage buff that makes everyone else perform better.

Wilsons ability to grow and shave his beard my be gimmicky... but it can still provide him with Warmth in Winter, and Supply Willow Bernie crafting ingredients & Meat Effigy.

Wes just uses more resources, eats more food, does less damage.

Everything Wrong with Wes in a TL:DR- A challenge character that was designed with Single Player in mind that doesn’t translate well into a Multiplayer environment- And has no unique skills or perks to offer in return.

Yes okay so you beat Dragonfly with your Hambat as Wes- Congrats.. you also ate through more food, wasted more resources & healing items, and took 45 minutes longer than any other character in the process..

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gaymime    5010
26 minutes ago, Scrimbles said:

Picking a character who does that worse, and wastes more resources, for zero upside, yes.

it is super gross to see someone who'd rather get nothing at all instead of something less than absolutely perfect

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Cheggf    2485
3 minutes ago, DavePlaysDST said:

i want wes to be able to read signs.

 

thats it, thats literally one of the only thing i actually need from wes.

You may not be able to read signs, but at least you can /cry after failing to read the sign.

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gaymime    5010
7 minutes ago, DavePlaysDST said:

i want wes to be able to read signs.

 

thats it, thats literally one of the only thing i actually need from wes.

to be fair he can read signs fine, he just wont tell you what they said x''D

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obekovbuti    88
1 hour ago, DavePlaysDST said:

i want wes to be able to read signs.

 

thats it, thats literally one of the only thing i actually need from wes.

Yes actually i changed my mind that is the only change i want to see. He could only show it to the player and it would be on diffrent color and font so it is not his words speaking.

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