Yunru

Airlock Mk 3: Bigger, Bulkier, Faster

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Dubiday    16

See Klei what we have to do to get an airlock in this game, which, again, is not a sci-fi thing. We need a building for that :(

Nice work there btw! If I may ask, why are there two doors on each side?

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Rocoto    9
16 hours ago, Dubiday said:

If I may ask, why are there two doors on each side?

I think it helps so less gas is coming through and has to be pumped out.

Another common method is to use multiple doors in a row "II..." or in a "I=I"-pattern.

See Yunru's post down below: 

 

Edited by Rocoto
correction

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Yunru    1486
14 hours ago, Dubiday said:

See Klei what we have to do to get an airlock in this game, which, again, is not a sci-fi thing. We need a building for that :(

I completely disagree. This is how it should be done. What we do need though, is better pumps. Minipumps are so gods damned slow, and big pumps don't catch from all spaces they take up.

If we had stronger pumps with catchment larger than their occupational area (say a pump with 3x3 catchment), or pumps that take less space (say one that doubles as a floor or background tile), I could shrink the design quite a bit. Or even if we had doors that functioned as checkpoints rather than locking.

(I will, in fact, start working on one using Wall Pumps and Vents [ https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1845579729 ] to see if I can make it faster and smaller (since smaller is already possible ala Mk 2).)

 

Quote

If I may ask, why are there two doors on each side?

I honestly don't remember. I did quite extensive testing for the Mk2, of which I have no memories, and that one had double doors (despite being optimised for smallest space), so they definitely have a purpose.

 

 

EDIT: With Wall Pumps and Vents, this alteration takes the Mk2 from the more than twice as slow as the Mk3 to slightly faster, while still being smaller:

image.thumb.png.c5eb5387127ab8cdc7987c8343066d19.png

Edit 2: In fact, it also lets you go Plastic-free:

image.thumb.png.f89fb286ad80e797b733aed41c950552.png

Edit 3: You can even get it as small too:

image.thumb.png.2446002d0a5139f2cfa0866194fad750.png

Edited by Yunru
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Yunru    1486

I AM THE REMEMBERING OF WHY THERE'S TWO DOORS! 

With just one, the checkpoint doesn't have time to turn off before the dupe is passed it. 

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Glassyfo    242
19 hours ago, Yunru said:

I AM THE REMEMBERING OF WHY THERE'S TWO DOORS! 

I HAVE THE FURY. :-D I HAVE THE CHORTLES.

Edited by Glassyfo
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nullvoid    0
On 1/9/2021 at 2:34 PM, Yunru said:

I AM THE REMEMBERING OF WHY THERE'S TWO DOORS! 

With just one, the checkpoint doesn't have time to turn off before the dupe is passed it. 

What if you turned the inner checkpoints around, so the dupes have longer to run before they get stopped?

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SharraShimada    930
On 1/9/2021 at 1:02 PM, Yunru said:

EDIT: With Wall Pumps and Vents, this alteration takes the Mk2 from the more than twice as slow as the Mk3 to slightly faster, while still being smaller:

If you are comfortable with using mods, there is an airlock mod. A 3x2 building made from 400 refined metal, using power, and seals from gas and liquid. 

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TheMule    346
On 1/8/2021 at 11:55 PM, Dubiday said:

which, again, is not a sci-fi thing

Like many other things in ONI. There's a MOD that adds radio signals to automation, which is much more advanced that having wires going everywhere, yet, nowadays, no longer sci-fi IRL.

We have do deal with a lot of low-level stuff. The point of ONI is not having advanced buildings, is that we build stuff block by block. Each design is a puzzle of sorts and we love puzzles. There's nothing special about a pre-made solution. While there's something special about people coming up with amazing solutions.

 

On 1/9/2021 at 1:02 PM, Yunru said:

What we do need though, is better pumps.

Totally agree. We have building blocks, if anything, we should ask for better building blocks, not pre-made buildings that solve problems.

BTW, you know I don't like mini-pumps I'd rather use only standard pumps.

Hence the question: let's take your design and have low pressure pre-chambers on both sides (or one side, if the other is vacuum). These low pressure zones (as small as possible, with one sensor and 1 pump) are kept at a pressure compatible with an efficient use of the pump. A minipump is 60W for 50g, so 0.83g/W. A standard pump does better than that down to 200g, which is 40g per tile.  So roughly let's set the sensor at 50g.

How much of the incoming gas makes it through the first pump in your design if the external pressure is around 50g? Do the minipumps even engage?

Edited by TheMule

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Yunru    1486
7 hours ago, nullvoid said:

What if you turned the inner checkpoints around, so the dupes have longer to run before they get stopped?

Then you could safely shave two tiles off the width, but you'd have to filter any gasses back to their originating sides. 

Personally I felt the added complexity wasn't worth two tiles of width. 

There'd also be a slight chance of leaking gasses through when you have two dupes using it from opposite directions. 

32 minutes ago, TheMule said:

BTW, you know I don't like mini-pumps I'd rather use only standard pumps.

Hence the question: let's take your design and have low pressure pre-chambers on both sides (or one side, if the other is vacuum). These low pressure zones (as small as possible, with one sensor and 1 pump) are kept at a pressure compatible with an efficient use of the pump. A minipump is 60W for 50g, so 0.83g/W. A standard pump does better than that down to 200g, which is 40g per tile.  So roughly let's set the sensor at 50g.

How much of the incoming gas makes it through the first pump in your design if the external pressure is around 50g? Do the minipumps even engage?

Unknown, will test. 

Edit: Testing complete, unfortunately, the answer is "enough":

image.thumb.png.deeb985a58d9a057c8e0fe570163acbf.png

(The big pump connects to the left vent, whilst the mini pumps all connect to the right. Thus any gas in the right chamber made it past the big pump when the dupe ran through.)

Edit 2: Another issue may be that it could depend on the area it's drawing from. Will commence further tests with differently sized areas on the left.

Edit 2b: Further testing indicates the larger the area of the incoming gas, the more makes it through, so it'll only get worse:

image.thumb.png.7e62b64e1570d29df0bf9625005435b8.png

4 hours ago, SharraShimada said:

If you are comfortable with using mods, there is an airlock mod. A 3x2 building made from 400 refined metal, using power, and seals from gas and liquid. 

I dislike anything that's just place-and-forget like that. 

There's no effort to it, no challenge. 

It's also why I tend to stay away from refineries except for steel. 

Edited by Yunru

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Yunru    1486

@TheMule I managed to come up with this design that can handle up to 7kg in one direction (specifically up to 7.2 from a 2x4 area, less with bigger areas), although it lacks any sort of failsafe:

image.thumb.png.0dce36ae5b0a0a7ba682466439b9e66f.png

Edited by Yunru
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ZombieDupe    78
On 1/8/2021 at 10:55 PM, Dubiday said:

See Klei what we have to do to get an airlock in this game, which, again, is not a sci-fi thing. We need a building for that :(

Nice work there btw! If I may ask, why are there two doors on each side?

*insert some argument from some guy saying it's fine because liquid locks aren't a cheese requirement and that this method is balanced*

Have done this method myself in sandbox mode once, gives a nice use to the checkpoints, but honestly it's too much to ask for a typical player to come up with. Same for discovering the liquid lock. I see players constantly assuming the basic use of air lock doors are best there is because of its obvious nature.

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Yunru    1486
14 minutes ago, ZombieDupe said:

I see players constantly assuming the basic use of air lock doors are best there is because of its obvious nature.

I mean, it's always been intuitive to me that an airlock door does not an airlock make, since it's just the door. 

And airlock doors only poccess two important properties: They are airtight when shut, and they can withstand high pressure differentials. Both of which the ONI airlock doors do. 

Edited by Yunru
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ghkbrew    307
3 hours ago, Yunru said:

@TheMule I managed to come up with this design that can handle up to 7kg in one direction (specifically up to 7.2 from a 2x4 area, less with bigger areas), although it lacks any sort of failsafe:

image.thumb.png.0dce36ae5b0a0a7ba682466439b9e66f.png

Would mini pumps help this design? That way you have all the tiles covered.  Maybe just replacing the right side pumps?

And you can add atmo sensor and checkpoint on the right side as a fail safe.

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Yunru    1486

Oh definitely, I was just hoping for a design without mini pumps. 

 

Can't experiment atm, timing how long it takes ceramic insulation to melt when exposed to niobium to prove a point. 

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Fyrel    13

2021-01-13.thumb.png.34c8e9737f59e5fe7f3a8bed5bf93052.png

Bead pump airlock.

 

434091208_2021-01-13(1).thumb.png.c833acf70bfed3e3d2e1549d1f6d32df.png

And V.2

added filtration for the gases.

Wasn't a big issue with the first one but tiny amounts of gas could get through.

Edited by Fyrel
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Yunru    1486
On 1/13/2021 at 1:23 PM, Fyrel said:

Bead pump airlock

The problem I have with this sort of airlock is I'm a massive optimiser at heart, and if my dupes are going to get soggy feet regardless... Might as well use a water lock.

That said... it could be possible to get the to jump a gap where the actual bead falls. Not sure if dupes can open doors across gaps in order to jump into them.

Edited by Yunru

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Fyrel    13
3 hours ago, Yunru said:

The problem I have with this sort of airlock is I'm a massive optimiser at heart, and if my dupes are going to get soggy feet regardless... Might as well use a water lock.

That said... it could be possible to get the to jump a gap where the actual bead falls. Not sure if dupes can open doors across gaps in order to jump into them.

You can't get them to open the doors and jump the gap, they always get wet. You could give them showers to remove the debuff if you wanted too.

I tend to just go with liquid locks and morale bombing and ignore stress altogether.

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Yunru    1486

For entering a vacuum, since I failed to note it, you can remove everything to the vacuum side of the dividing door, except the closest duplicant checkpoint and the door with the pressure plate. That must remain to ensure that a duplicant inside the vacuum doesn't open the door while the entry chamber is still being vacuumed. 

Edited by Yunru

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Yunru    1486

I will be investigating how much faster I can make the design. 

I figure since I've already expanded it two spaces on either side for the big pump, I might as well try using the space above it. 

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Yunru    1486

Slight redesign complete. Slightly faster, and at not much more expense:

image.thumb.png.059552ec503fcfc907ff185506d5581f.png

Theoretically you could tile the two big pumps, two mini pumps section and it'd function even better, but I haven't personally tested it because as is the design is pushing the limits of practicality in terms of bulk. 

Edited by Yunru
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Yunru    1486
On 1/9/2021 at 12:02 PM, Yunru said:

image.thumb.png.2446002d0a5139f2cfa0866194fad750.png

Somewhat unsurprisingly, this is still the fastest design, for those who use the requisite mod.

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