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darknotezero

how the DLC amplifies the playstyle divide

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darknotezero    48

So both the GF and I play ONI, and we approach it in very different ways.

In the base game I've played a total of 3 colonies - the first I abandoned when i started to figure out what i did wrong in early game ending at about 400 cycles. the second i abandoned when i i figured out what I did wrong in the late game around 1200 cycles. The third I played until the DLC was available, clocking in at almost 2000 cycles, and i've built something fairly sustainable by learning and refining more advanced systems. petroleum boilers, LOX and LH, etc.

I enjoy ONI the most when i'm exploring those mid to late systems, particularly advanced/complex automation problems or refining heat deletion/addition mechanics. I rush through the early/mid game somewhat sloppily to get there and then go back and refine the early/mid game stuff once i get in a more stable place in the late game, or use my knowledge to better plan the early-mid game with my next colony more successfully, but still quickly.

By contrast, the GF on the base game has played every asteroid and has hardly devoted past 200-400 cycles on any of them. She's done a lot to refine her early/mid gameplay and adapt what she does to fit each individual asteroid, but finds the barrier past the mid point not worthwhile. She breaks into refined metal/steel production and basic automation, but she hasn't messed around with more advanced heat deletion mechanics nor did she ever build any rockets (which I know go hand in hand). The only reason she ever breached the surface after the initial discovery was to use it to pump out excess CO2. But she's a much better farmer than me, and she creates a much cleaner structure to her base because she's much more organized than I am from the start and takes a much slower and measured pace.

Although she hasn't adjusted her play for the DLC that much to incorporate and understand rocketry as a new mid-game mechanic rather than a late game one, I feel like once she does, the new DLC will reward her style of play more than it rewards mine. Having smaller asteroid/planetoids with split colonies means that, for example, a sustainable plumbing system needs to be built multiple times, and the fact that each new asteroid doesn't necessitate a real change to how those systems are built makes it feel repetitive rather than advancing. I know that having remnant outhouses/wash basins could be seen as mediating that, but that feels less like a mediation and more of a temporary measure that needs to be resolved into a more permanent solution, and that discourages me from expanding my colonies on other asteroids because i can't be bothered.

This isn't really a criticism as more of an observation of our contrasting playstyles. I also acknowledge that as the DLC becomes more fleshed out that it will likely reward varying playstyle preferences. For all i know, a yet-to-be developed mid-late game asteroid could, say, have a lot of the early game systems pre-built so that a dupe could land and play around with late game stuff without needing to ever build a lavatory, sink, or basic gas system. I hope so, because if not, I'll lose my motivation to explore a depth of the expanded game that I would love to but don't want to grind to reach, and I don't want to rely upon Sandbox as an alt to that because that ruins the joy of in-game discovery.

Just thinking out loud here, welcome to alternate thoughts or perspectives.

 

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blash365    775

Well, the way i understand it is, that we will have multiple ways to play all those asteroids in the cluster.

We can play the multi-based, 10 self-sufficient dupes per asteroid style as you described. But we can also play the prime-colony + 5 plumbing-stations that just syphon their resources to the main hub.

Of course this requires a bit more elaboration than we have at the moment. But the baselines are already there. Warp-Connection between #1 and #2. Rocket Automation + Rovers for the rest.

I could also imagine a completely mobile space station that just visits each bus-stop-colony every now and then.

 

It all depends a bit on what Klei adds over the next year. And if there is a strong lobby for some of these ideas, they will surely consider it.

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Interesting observations. I've got close to 400 hours in ONI and I've never touched the space aspect of the game. I tend to restart regularly as most of my bases get to a point where I find them too messsy to want to tidy up or fix things I see as problems. There's so many aspects of the game that I've never really found the time to get my head around which limits what I achieve. I was a bit wary buying the DLC since it focused on something I've never played. I'm still not sure what to think as for me it may end up being about managing several small messes vs one big one.

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Gurgel    2302

That is not a "divide". It is a "diversity" of playstyles. See, suddenly it is something positive!

That said, people not only play differently, they set themselves different end-goals. Mine is full, permanent hands-off survival on a reasonably high industrial level. With the DLC in its current state, the tricky thing will be making filtration medium sustainable. This probably means volcanoes and auto-miners, but I still have to figure it out.

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Zakery    36

"#2. Rocket Automation + Rovers for the rest." - for this we need Rover recharge station - i think its interersting idea:

1) Rovers can"t replace dupe becouse limited "skills" so no balance problems

2) Rovers can be used to maintaine remote base infrastructure after implementation / automation by dupes

it can be great motivation to imlement advanced automation and unmanaged resource processing on remote bases

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KonfigSys    119

that is a beauty of ONI - there is no right scenario how to play. It is right when a player enjoys his/her own style. And I do not see Klei puts some limits to it. Contrary they accept players' ideas well.

I had arguments with my friend when we played DST (do not starve together). He wanted to run forward exploring and I wanted to be well prepared. Finally we split tasks - he did exploration and I did base building/resource harvesting. Here is that you do both parts but you prioritize based on your preferences. Every engineering design can be done with multiple variations and all could be right. 

In my current game I built only the main base and a big star ship (almost self sustained) which travels and the crew takes resources from other asteroids - either dig or automate processes.

Though I do not see much a problem to build basic LS - a couple of lavatories, sinks, beds and dining tables. As it is not a full base you do not need a very big infrastructure. 

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theFlyRoper    2
8 hours ago, Gurgel said:

That is not a "divide". It is a "diversity" of playstyles. See, suddenly it is something positive!

That said, people not only play differently, they set themselves different end-goals. Mine is full, permanent hands-off survival on a reasonably high industrial level. With the DLC in its current state, the tricky thing will be making filtration medium sustainable. This probably means volcanoes and auto-miners, but I still have to figure it out.

filtration medium is easy, just smash stuff in the rock crusher.

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KonfigSys    119
28 minutes ago, theFlyRoper said:

filtration medium is easy, just smash stuff in the rock crusher.

until you run out of what can be smashed

there are some exotic solutions (not bugs) to make ceramic from nothing and smash it but Klei have just added magma volcanos and the problem disappeared.

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theFlyRoper    2

Right, magma volcanos are here now, I think that covers what you need for endgame, although you have to ship it. Ironically although I really want to set up a full cluster of functional colonies on every asteroid, I end up playing more like DarkNoteZero's GF. 

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AndreyKl    140
15 hours ago, darknotezero said:

each new asteroid doesn't necessitate a real change to how those systems are built makes it feel repetitive rather than advancing.

I feel the same way. Especially true for high temp volcanoes, I have to repeat same build for each of them. Not only it is repetitive, it is also fairly complicated and time consuming to set up everything necessary for taming volcanoes.

Would be nice if there were some larger deviations for building on mini asteroids. Some small suggestions:

  • Either radiator technology (radiate heat into void when exposed to space) or some asteroids having 'remnant' radiators for players to use. While there are multiple heat deletion mechanics, there are not enough buildable straightforward (and effective) ones to provide variety
  • Some of the volcanoes having a ready 'remnant' pump built on top of them. While it's possible to use regular pumps to pump out magma, it generally only complicates things, having some volcanoes with ready pumps will be a change of pace.
  • One of the tiny asteroids having Remnant CO2 scrubber. Supply it with H2 and it will consume CO2 from atmosphere, emit O2 and drop small amounts of coal.
  • Alternative to geysers that is more like Oil well: you need to pump something into it to get something in return.
  • An Remnant charging station, it somehow rejuvenates rover's chemical batteries, battery nearby still has a bit of charge left. Having such a thing on one of asteroids will also provide a nice change of pace, even if small and potentially a way to avoid building full scale industry. Charging station might need some additional resources (coal and sulfur?) for constant use.
  • More 'environment features' for asteroids, be that meteor rains or something like: "this metallic asteroid has stronger then normal magnetic field, some of the plants will wilt here, but shiny bugs never looked so shiny", "this rocky asteroid suffers from constant tremors, strong enough to wake up duplicands from their crude cots, some critters will refuse to breed, some eggs will need help to hatch, softer soils will fall down during tremors", "walls of this asteroid emit soothing sounds, duplicands recover stamina faster while sleeping, eggs hatch faster, but some critters sometimes forget to eat or breed, they just keep sleeping"

P.S. Refrigerators are a bit more useful in DLC, specifically for rockets, but on asteroids it is simpler to dump food in a hole somewhere, because early on you might not have enough power on mini asteroids and freedge's capacity is laughable long term. It also does not help with automation. The only proper way to get notified about low ingredient/specific-food level is by dropping food onto buttons. Suggestion: industrial refrigerator, just bigger and with 'full' signal.

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Slvrsrfr    198
23 minutes ago, AndreyKl said:

More 'environment features' for asteroids, be that asteroid rains or something like: "this metallic asteroid has stronger then normal magnetic field, some of the plants will wilt here, but shiny bugs never looked so shiny", "this rocky asteroid suffers from constant tremors, strong enough to wake up duplicands from their crude cots, some critters will refuse to breed, some eggs will need help to hatch, softer soils will fall down during tremors", "walls of this asteroid emit soothing sounds, duplicands recover stamina faster while sleeping, eggs hatch faster, but some critters sometimes forget to eat or breed, they just keep sleeping"

great food for thought here. nice.

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darknotezero    48
11 hours ago, Gurgel said:

That is not a "divide". It is a "diversity" of playstyles. See, suddenly it is something positive!

 

yah don't get me wrong, i wasn't trying to imply the 'divide' as a negative term, but diversity of playstyles is a better way to put it for sure. The fact that the DLC in its current state doesn't quiiiite fit my playstyle as much as it fits others is more of a commentary than a complaint, because i know the game isn't Just For Me. it probably says something more about my psyche than anything else (there's a reason i switched from music performance to composition during my undergrad that has parallels here).

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Sasza22    3078

I think eventually we will get a way to play that satisfies both playstyles. For now we lack proper lategame so it works better for people that thrive in the midgame doing temporary solutions rather than going fully sustainable. Who knows how it will look when done. Maybe we will get options to make one superbase with automated outposts providing resources or just build 6 different bases instead.

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Gurgel    2302
7 hours ago, theFlyRoper said:

filtration medium is easy, just smash stuff in the rock crusher.

I think we have a slightly different understanding as to what "full, permanent hands-off survival " means ;-)"

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Tsabo    60
On 12/25/2020 at 1:09 AM, AndreyKl said:

I feel the same way. Especially true for high temp volcanoes, I have to repeat same build for each of them. Not only it is repetitive, it is also fairly complicated and time consuming to set up everything necessary for taming volcanoes.

The blueprints mod has changed my life in this regard. Now I can slap down my best volcano tamer design with a single click instead of fiddling around for literally half an hour with it.

(I actually find that the best use is for space stuff; a one-click solar farm complete with bunker doors, correctly placed robo-miners, a pipe/vent system for the immersion oil, a separate pipe/vent system for the looping coolant; power, automation, everything. Makes going to space fun rather than an odious chore)

EDIT: I realise that these are unavailable for Spaced Out, so maybe your complaint is that you usually use blueprints but SO makes things that used to be trivial, into horrendous chores?

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