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ArcerPL

Wolfgang Rework concept

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ArcerPL    18

Wolfgang is known to be one of more overpowered character in don't starve, with Warlys help, he can deal up to 360 damage! Tell me about balance! He is way too strong because the main go-to wolfgang is get as many food as it gets and with his power, he can maul beefalos and spiders into the ground like they were nothing, he needs a slight nerf and that's why i created this concept, that might also give him more reasons to play as him, since he's pretty boring character, eat much = damage and hp much, that's the essence of Wolfgang 

 

For me, Wolfgang should have system of diets, "what does in mean?" you may ask, diets are the sole specification of what player eats, not in the warly way of eating, for me every single food in don't starve should give him different buff, each will be told in this post, take a seat, since it's gonna be maybe interesting!

 

The wolfgang diets - this means each one of those will provide different outcome of powers when belly is full with any food from the categories stated below:

- Sweet diet - this type of diet (i say diet too much i know) will not provide you any bar boost, moreover wolfgang will loose hunger insanely fast with that diet, but it will give you huge speed up, the speed of fully fed big woby is fine i guess, this thing is balanced, since your hunger drain keeps you eating more and more, this means you have to collect insane amount of sweet food to be fast and with wickerbottom farming nerf, it won't be exploitable that much. Sweet food is every fruit you have in game, this also means honey, cookies, dragon pies, waffles, muffins and more from what you can say is sweet in real life, except of honey nuggets and honey ham of course, they will be mentioned later, it also not include ice cream and any frozen or hot food, also will be later

Veggie diet - by the name you know what i'm talking about, everything that counts as a veggie in a dish is made out of that, it also counts mandrake soup, but then making mandrake soup with meat should be impossible with that to make it logical, guacamole, trial mix and anything veggie crockpot meal type you know. This diet will provide you great health boost, but also will provide extremely small damage and speed up after time if you keep this diet on full belly as long as you can provide food for that. There is more to this diet than health though, since with this diet, every mob that is vegan will ignore you, that means rabbits, no-eyed deers and gobblers won't run (with exception of rabbits when you attack/kill one of them) and beefalos will ignore you at spring unless you attack them, tallbirds and bunnymen (even when you have meat) will also ignore you, also unless you attack them. This diet is more like 'get out of jail free card', but this diet will make your sanity drain faster and have huge vunerability for damage, so it balances the health boost. it doesn't include chillis and cool and spicy meals, as said in fruits, it will be mentioned later

Fish diet - this diet will keep you sane as it gets, not only that, it will increase you sanity meter and give only the small sanity drop even when fighting bosses or staying next to the crack that spawns shadows in caves, this means this diet is extremely for sanity causes, but this diet however has its downsides, basically you can't craft anything when you have this diet set on because 'wolfgang is too smart for this' which also will come as a quote, this means you have to either prepare it ealier, or wait until diet wears off, this also will decrease your health meter and won't give more benefits in form of hunger. it is made by how suprising, fish foods, such as fish, eels, and fish related crockpot recipes, it counts the warly food that makes you dry.

- Meat diet - this is probably the closest to the current wolfgang diet, this diet will also count eggs and milk as 'meat' since it's animal product. As said, meat diet will give you same damage up as current wolfgang and give you small health boost, it will also make your stomach bigger and hunger drain will be slower than usual! You also have resistance of grass armor! what is the bad side of it then? Well, precisely you are slower and wolfgang seems fatter because of that diet, not only that, you'll attract every meat loving creature to attack you, so don't think to go to pig village because every single one will attack you, because they smell meat, same for bunnymen, even when you don't have meat in equipment, catcoons will attack you for no reason as well, it will also hold hounds for much longer to follow you, also spider nests will spawn spiders from 4 tiles away, they smell meat too, remember! This diet will be provoked through every meat, including honey nuggets and honey ham, yes, they are sweet, but they are still meat, it won't be provoked by spicy chilli and anything that warms/cools you though.

Spicy diet - finaly we hit that one, there's not much to talk about here, eating anything that's spicy will provoke you to be warm, it makes you to not have a need of having thermal stone at winter for warming you up as long, as you have full belly of spicy foods, not including warly chilli spice, because it collides with food diets, such as voltgoat jelly with spice, it will be qualified as a sweet, not as spice. The downside of it is overusing that diet will damage wolfgang, spicy foods are sometimes pain to eat, take a challenge and eat hottest chilli in the world, bet ya won't survive 10 minutes without literal fire in your mouth

Cool diet - besides the name, it is a complete opposite of spicy diet, it cools you down, but instead of taking your health away, it will freeze you in one place when you overuse that diet, even when ice cream is sweet, it cools you down doesn't it?

Mixed diet - this will provide you basically nothing, but slowness, you can't mix the diets, because you're overeating by that, this is a punish for not watching your diets properly, it will appear if two or more diets have 50%-99% diet filled how do you know what diet have the most value right now? look below

 

The diet meter - basically a small bar that is under your sanity meter, it will have small food icons of what you have filled the most and when you click on that bar, the bigger window will appear with exact data of your diets by %. The diet meter will restart after every 2 days (since his belly lasts 2.66 days to starve)

 

And that's pretty much all of my wolfgang rework idea, i hope it is somehow good, and makes wolfgang balanced character, and what can i say other than have a good day guys ^^

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Muzarello    463

Gotta say I like the idea but the lazy side of me doesn't, I've been playing wolfgang so much lately cuz he is an easy character to play with if you know how to manage food, and that's not that difficult beyond new player territory,but outside of boss rushes and soloing raid bosses,it's not that fun to play as him, I'd say that in a group or a pub, wolfgang is welcome but not really as fun to play as he is in a solo server (when you play EXTREMELLY AGGRESSIVE). 
I like your ideas but maybe people will think bad of it just like they did at first with the new farms, you can still play as before but now it's just more in depth if you want.
Just don't like the cool diet, the rest seem fun

 

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ArcerPL    18
9 minutes ago, Muzarello said:

Gotta say I like the idea but the lazy side of me doesn't, I've been playing wolfgang so much lately cuz he is an easy character to play with if you know how to manage food, and that's not that difficult beyond new player territory,but outside of boss rushes and soloing raid bosses,it's not that fun to play as him, I'd say that in a group or a pub, wolfgang is welcome but not really as fun to play as he is in a solo server (when you play EXTREMELLY AGGRESSIVE). 
I like your ideas but maybe people will think bad of it just like they did at first with the new farms, you can still play as before but now it's just more in depth if you want.
Just don't like the cool diet, the rest seem fun

 

i understand that cool diet is weak, but well, most of summer you would sit in caves anyways, the cool diet is more like temprorary 'going out' plan

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Muzarello    463
12 minutes ago, ArcerPL said:

i understand that cool diet is weak, but well, most of summer you would sit in caves anyways, the cool diet is more like temprorary 'going out' plan

Not that it's weak, but with that it would need a food change overall, but would be fun to find a frozen wolfgang in the middle of summer, I'm not a game designer nor I take in depth looks at the game, but I quite like your rework idea, most of what a Wolfgang needs is meatball and pierogi, with the farming rework and fishing(if you fish on a malbatross shoal) being a bit more productive, I can see your idea in practice.

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ArcerPL    18
1 minute ago, Muzarello said:

Not that it's weak, but with that it would need a food change overall, but would be fun to find a frozen wolfgang in the middle of summer, I'm not a game designer nor I take in depth looks at the game, but I quite like your rework idea, most of what a Wolfgang needs is meatball and pierogi, with the farming rework and fishing(if you fish on a malbatross shoal) being a bit more productive, I can see your idea in practice.

you don't really need to fish to get a lot of fishes though, just have luck to find merms fighting with tentacles and maybe spiders if you have even more luck, but yeah, fishing is way too tedious, it needs a rework besides giving more fish into the seas or ponds, it also punishes a player if he didn't inteded to have for example meat diet, and now because of that, he is slow, and beeing slow in a early game is a suicide move, since your main goal is to prepare for winter ASAP, you need to strictly watch for your diets, because you don't want to end up with something not wanted, fish diet is perfect for rushing ruins, since the lower sanity decrease is perfect for exploring, but it also makes you unable to craft, which in the case of your torch ending while exploring caves and fish diet consumed, you are most likely screwed. I tried to balance every diet so wolfgang is a character that is both interesting and punishable for bad habits

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Muzarello    463
1 hour ago, ArcerPL said:

you don't really need to fish to get a lot of fishes though, just have luck to find merms fighting with tentacles and maybe spiders if you have even more luck, but yeah, fishing is way too tedious, it needs a rework besides giving more fish into the seas or ponds, it also punishes a player if he didn't inteded to have for example meat diet, and now because of that, he is slow, and beeing slow in a early game is a suicide move, since your main goal is to prepare for winter ASAP, you need to strictly watch for your diets, because you don't want to end up with something not wanted, fish diet is perfect for rushing ruins, since the lower sanity decrease is perfect for exploring, but it also makes you unable to craft, which in the case of your torch ending while exploring caves and fish diet consumed, you are most likely screwed. I tried to balance every diet so wolfgang is a character that is both interesting and punishable for bad habits

this is a double edged sword, I don't think most players would like but sure is an interesting idea, looks like Bonk! from tf2, you are invencible but can't hit, but it's a bit too much of a punishment considering nightmares still spawn from fissures no matter your sanity, but for a boss that drains sanity, I think it's good, you usually don't need to craft while in a boss fight, but if you have to build a campfire or a torch, you had to think ahead. 
Some tweaking in the diets here and there would be nice.

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ArcerPL    18
6 hours ago, Muzarello said:

this is a double edged sword, I don't think most players would like but sure is an interesting idea, looks like Bonk! from tf2, you are invencible but can't hit, but it's a bit too much of a punishment considering nightmares still spawn from fissures no matter your sanity, but for a boss that drains sanity, I think it's good, you usually don't need to craft while in a boss fight, but if you have to build a campfire or a torch, you had to think ahead. 
Some tweaking in the diets here and there would be nice.

actually every person i showed this said this is interesting concept! I'm really glad of this, because this means the idea actually could make it into the game, finally making wolfgang somehow balanced, i'm not sure whos rework will be next, but if this will be in wolfgang rework, i would be pround of myself lol

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chirsg    539

Wigfrid in her rework developed a bit of a wolfgang niche; she's a great boss killer. A niche she shares with wolfgang.

The two knuckleheads excel at a part of the game where you spend around maybe 1-10% of total play time doing.

As it stands, by merit of diet, they're some of the worst at doing chores. Wolfgang needs more food to stay in middle form to chop wood, mine rocks, farm his own non meat food or perhaps crafting. You lose time when transforming down or up. Lots of the game can tend to become automated when your day count climbs, thus putting wolfgang out of a job.

Reaching the endgame is faster with him, I'll give you that, but when you're actually there, you're better off with a lower maintenance character. Pretty similar to wigfrid. Her itty bitty tiddy little stomach empties faster than average, she's higher maintenance since all she eats is meat and you lose time with the majority of her eating animations. that tends to add up. But I digress, we're talking about wolfgang.

Making him weaker for the sake of making him weaker doesn't seem in spirit with the general direction of the reworks.

All wolfgang is really is a qol boss fighter.

However, If I had to tone him down just for the sake of it, I'd make him the sole character to get non multiplicative bonuses from warly's damage buffs. 6x or more total damage with chaud froid because that's the strength of 6 characters. A full vanilla server of wilson damage characters. think about that. And then proceed to give him something nice for day to day that isn't just boss fighting.

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ArcerPL    18
51 minutes ago, chirsg said:

Wigfrid in her rework developed a bit of a wolfgang niche; she's a great boss killer. A niche she shares with wolfgang.

The two knuckleheads excel at a part of the game where you spend around maybe 1-10% of total play time doing.

As it stands, by merit of diet, they're some of the worst at doing chores. Wolfgang needs more food to stay in middle form to chop wood, mine rocks, farm his own non meat food or perhaps crafting. You lose time when transforming down or up. Lots of the game can tend to become automated when your day count climbs, thus putting wolfgang out of a job.

Reaching the endgame is faster with him, I'll give you that, but when you're actually there, you're better off with a lower maintenance character. Pretty similar to wigfrid. Her itty bitty tiddy little stomach empties faster than average, she's higher maintenance since all she eats is meat and you lose time with the majority of her eating animations. that tends to add up. But I digress, we're talking about wolfgang.

Making him weaker for the sake of making him weaker doesn't seem in spirit with the general direction of the reworks.

All wolfgang is really is a qol boss fighter.

However, If I had to tone him down just for the sake of it, I'd make him the sole character to get non multiplicative bonuses from warly's damage buffs. 6x or more total damage with chaud froid because that's the strength of 6 characters. A full vanilla server of wilson damage characters. think about that. And then proceed to give him something nice for day to day that isn't just boss fighting.

well, i respect your opinion, but wolfgang is really a boring character, his upside is just a higher damage, which other characters do fine as well, for example wortox is way stronger than him if it comes to kiting, since he doesn't need to run away, just telepoof at the right time, he's also still unbalanced, since mighty form run fast, deals hell lots of damage, and give you lots of health, if we want wolfgang to be a character that has variety, we should main his stomach, because this is his main downside, hunger drain. The diet system is for sole purpose to base on the stomach which greatly resembles his character. I understand rushing with him is fun, but he is just too dull from other characters, you just have to eat much and you're strong, while for example wigfrid is more fun because of her song buffs, which are realtively cheaper than warlys spices, woodie is fun now, because he don't have log meter anymore and spawns more treeguards, which means free living logs if you know how to kite them, duh, even wendy is more fun and is basically easiest character to play as, because abigail mauls everything like a blender.

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Well-met    5067
5 hours ago, chirsg said:

The two knuckleheads excel at a part of the game where you spend around maybe 1-10% of total play time doing.

yeah I'm pretty sure fighting in don't starve takes a wee bit more than 1-10% of the game

5 hours ago, chirsg said:

You lose time when transforming down or up.

the short stun can be a hindrance during fights (why weren't you prepared?), otherwise it is of no consequence

5 hours ago, chirsg said:

and you lose time with the majority of her eating animations.

that's ... virtually something all characters go through and must suffer.

5 hours ago, chirsg said:

All wolfgang is really is a qol boss fighter.

Large speed boost for everyday tasks and vaporizing every small to medium mobs on demand is no laughing matter.

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Grim the    403

In theory, it's a great idea. But this sounds more complicated than managing Warly's diet, and farming combined. If you need to only fill your belly with one food type chances are your average wolfgang will never have a single diet, and the veggie diet removes the one downside the devs gave him, which was sanity. (Kevin Forbes' Thread about character balance) It's a great concept, but I think it needs a bit more time in the oven.

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ArcerPL    18
1 hour ago, Grim the said:

In theory, it's a great idea. But this sounds more complicated than managing Warly's diet, and farming combined. If you need to only fill your belly with one food type chances are your average wolfgang will never have a single diet, and the veggie diet removes the one downside the devs gave him, which was sanity. (Kevin Forbes' Thread about character balance) It's a great concept, but I think it needs a bit more time in the oven.

i understand, i mean, klei don't need to copy paste that idea, they always add something from them, not forcing or anything, but i have hopes for this idea because very much people said this concept is actually okay/great, so it has a chance tho!

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