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nehio

Feedback after 400 cycles

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nehio    2

Hi there here's a few of my feedbacks for my DLC test, i'll try to avoid talking about any bugs here

- Smaller maps are amazing, a lot less lag much more fun !

- As it is, and as many have said, oxygen masks are useless, not only do they create a gaping void but dropped masks everywhere, the sheer metal usage etc, i plainly skipped and dealt with dupes being under different debuffs. Not sure how i would go around to a early/mid game solution for environmental protection. Maybe you went a bit too far ? Maybe they should only be protective masks(reusable with low cost in material) that protect from chlorine, co2, polluted water on skin etc effects, but still makes dupes hold their breath. And For the mid game we usually assume oxygen in pipes and if you feed it you can choose between the type of mask it gives the dupes (Protective) or (Breathing), and end game would still be Atmo since they have both. But there's a lot of fiddling with balancing cost etc.

I could also see a use for the oxygen mask in a more contained single dupe use for entering critter ranches that have special biomes like hydrogen or chlorine plants. It would go wonderfully well with a self contained tunnel ^^.

- The rocket program is much more accessible but at the same time you've created meta rockets.

The limited space inside makes it so if it stays in this state players will just google 'best rocket inside oni setup' and copy that' and i think that's not the goal of oni. A bigger interior would not make sense, but life support systems as part of the rocket that need to be fueled with various things. Oxgen for life support, power (i believe) could be provided to feed everything (battery), feed it with some kind of food. This would be a whole module, inside the rocket itself there would be like food distribution, heat generation from power supplied, and oxygen from the o2 supply, the co2 skimmer included in the "Life support module" would also consume power. Witch give an amazing opportunity  for more higher tiers of "Life support modules" so you can survive longer in the rocket and not die of cold or co2 intoxication.  The module itself could be a space you build in everything, batteries, co2 scrubbers etc, and even small tiny kitchen , the bigger the space the more you can fit inside, but i feel everything in this module should be separate from normal items, otherwise storing 20tons of oxylite in a storage container just ruins everything. On a smaller scale we would have all these things, and the dupe would have to go maintain his rocket in the life support module. There truly is a lot to do with the new rocket concept and i feel right now the direction it takes is boring, and not in any way challenging. And instead of having exterior modules, maybe you'd have tiered rockets that have more space inside where you can build all the space equipment installations

I also feel for colonizing we should have a colonizer rocket in line with what i said previously, but it would need to make several trips with "modules" until a base can be constructed on site. Each costing varying materials, maybe even blueprint what we would want to build and adjust costs based on that, so that colonizing another asteroid is fun, challenging and also takes some investment.

- Critters

I think we all really love the new critters especially the symbiosis relationship. I do find it sad we don't have more ways to generate sulfur now, after i mined (and used some) all my first map i had about 200 tons sulfur. At about 300 cycles in i had 150, and this is without ranching the critters because feeding them sulfur is useless they still rub against plants, and didn't want to waste it when it could be made into food instead. Granted i don't know if the "rubbing"speed is faster when ranched ? The sucrose generation is kind of off for me, a full 8 critter ranch produces enough for 2.66 grub grubs, i feel a better ratio would be 8 for 3.33 grub-grubs so you would produce almost enough for a full grub grub ranch of 8 with 2 full ranches of sweetle, and you'd need a third ranch if you want excess sucrose for rockets.

Speaking of sucrose, it is and ideal candidate as an added moral bonus for mess tables along with table salt ! a small +1. Or perhaps new coffee with sugar that have a bit more morale than normal you can pick.

- Metals

At first i thought cobalt would not be a problem, but it was a problem, i had a lot of it in the beginning and it all went away. So as it is for the energy bugs they consume a lot ! Maybe they should require some kind of new plant specific to them to produce electricity ? Either way cobalt in itself is not a great addition as a food source for the critters.

- Mud and Polluted Mud

Amazing, in the sens it required you to work to get your water going and is an amazing source of oxygen..... buuuuuuut it's supposed to be oxygen not included, and frankly it was so included i almost didn't worry about it. Love the idea, maybe reduce the natural sublimation to something much lower so the player has to work to get to breathe ^^. The idea in itself is great, and i would even like to see it implemented in other ways where instead of just mining and element, you mine a chunk of say  60% sedimentary rock, 17% granite  3% Gold ore , 10%iron ore, 10% sulfur. And you'd have to break it down in the rock breaker to be able to use the individual parts. This doesn't mean there aren't pure blocks just not all of them are pure and need to be processed.

 

Space

How i disliked the space biome, my god the 2400+ tons of regolith to dispose of using voles, the god awful meteorite shower that needed three thousand L-miners .... Well now it nice and cold, full of dirt ! But at the same time it went from harsh ******* space to "Hello there my name is space and I'm friendly now". I mean i deconstructed the abundant glass provided by the game with the new teleporters and everything (even without glass is easy to make), and built a great many solar panels, boom power fixed, no downside, no maintenance, no cost, no duper labor. Now I'm not saying bring back the 'roids please don't they're awful, but add some maintenance to space equipment, something like space radiation, buildings would require space insulation or protection in the form of cobalt, or any other thing. Also i think space should hurt dupes without atmo suits, space is not forgiving, and it shouldn't be. Oxygen mask would help but dupes  would still take damage, cold damage, skin damage, eyes freezing it's a terrifying place you know. In that sense and towards getting to atmo suits a few balancing is going to be surely required. I got mine quite easily frankly, i got drecko eggs, and even though i didnt have anything to feed them with i just put the in hydrogen and sheered them. I feel alot of the critters in this sense have a bit of a chease to them while wild, while it's a more slow producing cirtter, i didnt feel like it was that slow to get 12 atmo suits and never worry about anything.

 

I am guessing , since i haven't visited all available asteroids that some may have showers still, and that would be okay that would just make an even harsher environment to get a foothold on, as it should be, and that's where end game materials for nuclear and more should be found, like the niobium volcanoes and such.

Alerts

Much better ! But we need limits because as it is it beeps all the time for nothing. I also like the resource monitor we really needed that and i was so glad to see it included in the game ! So much clearer to keep track of things i want.

 

Here's a list of things i have read elsewhere i agree upon or simple additions i have always wanted in this game

- The snipping tool, please we beg you, anyone who has played this game hundreds of hours yearns for a simple cut snip tool like the mod provides. Block it under some skill, even advanced, but snipping a cable insted of deconstructing and rebuilding is a must.

- Dupe AI, they're still getting stuck, i like the alert but I'd like them not getting stuck ^^, i know i'm dreaming.

- The waterlocks mechanics have always baffled me, i really hope some day an alternative is provided, like a powered sealed tunnel to keep areas separate, from temperature and gas/liquid

- Same goes for stopping heat transfer from power wired with vacuum, a simple COSTLY type of connector that insulates would just be so nice, i mean it could be made of insulation, 3 tiles wide or whatever, and until you get it you deal with vacuums and messy ugly liquid locks.

- We have mess tables yes, but what about beautiful mess tables ? And cots yes, but what about bunk beds, for even less comfort and more compacted dupes !!! We have coffee yes, but what about tea ?

- A kitchen room that gives boost to the cook, however small, because god dammit he deserves to be happy that cook, he's always alone you know it, at leat let us say it his kitchen and not just random room.

- A very questionable morale bonus to productivity, or agility, or something, maybe even individual per dupe; per 20 morale (or more) above the dupes requirement. So if our good old Meep has 24/67 morale he gets a bonus to his eyebrows and he can run 5% faster

- I would very much like to be able to build 4 tile high rooms, i think it is a standard among us oni players, but they can only be built from the top , and that makes me sad.

- We need that abyssalite heat exchange to be zero, not almost zero, not almost almost zero, but zero. It has been plaguing the ONI community for too long now. On that note, too much heat is deleted in the production of insulation when using 1500° abyssalite. I'd see a machine that breaks down the abyssalite into powder and cools it to 40°, the machine would require cooling, and would be very heat intensive depending on the abyssalite temperature. Plus it makes more sens using reed fiber + abyssalite powder to make insulation. Just my thoughs on that pesky abyssalite.

- I wan't a magma pump :((not the cheesy one not touching magma). Please don't hit me. Or in general i want more ways to interact with magma in the very late game

- As it is if i want to place all critters in the open map i just build a 1x3 room with doors and a critter drop spot, i would like a "no limit" after 20 on the critter dropper. Doing it anyway is child play and i feel just give us the option.

 

I have loved trying the dlc and will experiment more with what it offers until it ends. Cheers to the dev team :)

 

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goboking    1825
1 hour ago, nehio said:

The limited space inside makes it so if it stays in this state players will just google 'best rocket inside oni setup' and copy that' and i think that's not the goal of oni. A bigger interior would not make sense, but life support systems as part of the rocket that need to be fueled with various things. Oxgen for life support, power (i believe) could be provided to feed everything (battery), feed it with some kind of food. This would be a whole module, inside the rocket itself there would be like food distribution, heat generation from power supplied, and oxygen from the o2 supply, the co2 skimmer included in the "Life support module" would also consume power. Witch give an amazing opportunity  for more higher tiers of "Life support modules" so you can survive longer in the rocket and not die of cold or co2 intoxication.  The module itself could be a space you build in everything, batteries, co2 scrubbers etc, and even small tiny kitchen , the bigger the space the more you can fit inside, but i feel everything in this module should be separate from normal items, otherwise storing 20tons of oxylite in a storage container just ruins everything. On a smaller scale we would have all these things, and the dupe would have to go maintain his rocket in the life support module. There truly is a lot to do with the new rocket concept and i feel right now the direction it takes is boring, and not in any way challenging. And instead of having exterior modules, maybe you'd have tiered rockets that have more space inside where you can build all the space equipment installations

I'm not seeing how a life support module solves the problem of players copying "best rocket inside oni setups".  I do like your suggestion, but it's not really a solution to your proposed problem.  There will always be people min-maxing and people copying the min-maxers.

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nehio    2

Hey glad you asked i didnt explain properly i guess, so sorry :(

The items themselves would be always the same, but you'd just have the right to put more of them in the space of the rocket depending on its tier,  but tiered rockets could have more of them. Wichever but you woudnt be able to min max anything since the limit will be on the survival items themselves, So it woudn't matter if you put it on top or in the bottom part, you'd still only have X water containers, X rocket carbon skimmer. But it is important that these items be different from the ones we have in the game currently, i mean one skimmer can take care of all the dupes otherwise.

Same thing goes for the now obsolete cargo bay, i mean a cargo bay once unlocked the only other constraint on it is the rocket carry weight itself, but why not add gas compactors, they cost more tech, more energy, if you run out well .... better pray that batch of natural gas you're bringing back doesn't kill you before you get there..

Or the containment bay, since the dupe can now travel through the rocket he'd have to have husbandry to maintain the critters fed or tranquilised in their cages, don't have husbandry ? Critter mayhem in space.

You want to bring back nuclear material, better have a dupe that has that last skill in the digging tree for containing that properly or radiation might kill you

 

I feel like the rocket system could use so many great ideas to make space trully challenging if you're greedy ! And all of that stems from having a fully accessible rocket by the dupe from the inside. A rocket that isnt built from the outside but the inside.

I understand klei wanted to maybe go with what they had before, but what we had before was tedious and mostly boring frankly speaking on the rocket part. And now we againt get a bazillion different rocket parts and we have to understand them, and once we do we'll stack em in a wiki sheet about how to built rocket for first planet and second and so on.

You plan out a nice rocket trip with 1 dupe that has the required skills , and fed the systems right, didn't skimp on things because you want stuff early well the mission goes well.

My ultimate point is, if Klei wants to go for an inside build, they should go all the way. There is a world of things to do with rockets by just changing their perspective to the inside.

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KonfigSys    119

people have different opinions, no surprises here. In order to satisfy more players there should be options in the game. 

I did not like the small maps. In my view it is a big map teared apart and now you have to traverse the space or use teleporting devices to tie it back together. What is good about it? You can develop biomes in the original game - one by one but without the space traveling.

it is a big drawback for me. I proposed that the initial map size, asteroid diversification (bio, geysers, metals, meteor shower, etc) should be in the start up option. Then each player can set the system to his or her liking. 

I also like meteor showers. I hate it initially but when I had all automated, I love it. First of all, it is very nice to see meteor showers - visuals are great. I stopped using bunker doors for rockets and it is much better now. The rockets take off and land at any time (they became independent on meteor showers!!!). No automation is needed. When rockets land and take off they destroy all regolith deposits, no automation or anything needed, moreover when hydrogen rockets takeoff or land they melt copper and gold ore into refined metal. The dupes can simply take it from the pit when it is needed for construction. Hot regolith is good. I load it into a conveyor which runs through a steam room and produce a lot of energy when it is needed (at night or during the meteor showers). One ranch of space pigs eat ALL warm (below 150C as it comes out of steam room) regolith and produce a lot of meat. In the late game, regolith, meteor showers are blessing. I hope that they will have some planetoids with meteor showers. Well, it became very easy to produce electricity from solar panels right at the beginning.

I did not like the new rocketry update. I hope and beg that they will not remove old rockets in the end version of the game. The new pilot module is a joke. I agree with you, as the space is very limited people will simply copy one design. It will be one creative work by a dozen and than thousands of copies. Why someone wants to reinvent the wheel? Let's say I have 10 planetoids and 5 rockets in the game (when it is completed), do I really want to micromanage crews in each rocket? Currently it looks like a not-well cooked idea. I agree with another player who proposed to have special space bio-modules (life support modules with everything in it). Currently it is an exploit with storage containers to haul a lot of cargo and some earthy design of things no one may use in space (why would you use a table, bed and village toilet in no gravity space?) It is really a space sleeping bag which takes no space, it is a specially designed sucking toilet with dehydrator, and a stand with food attached to it - no space wasted.

 

 

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pether    661

I have different oppinion on most topics, but I 100% agree with this statement:

25 minutes ago, KonfigSys said:

In order to satisfy more players there should be options in the game. 

I feel that many smaller asteroids bring more dynamic gameplay, I really love it, but I can understand an argument if someone likes to go BIG and create one huge base with all those late game industries. I feel that some setting during game creation would work here really good: it shouldn't be hard to allow players choose between many small planets or one big, or maybe even - many big ones if someone believes their NASA-stolen machine can run this (this one may however be extreme and I'd understand if KLEI didn't include this option)

About the meteors - I've got feeling that they are disabled only for alpha testing, early game rocketry wouldn't be possible with this hazzard, since we don't have proper tech and are encouraged to search for it on other asteroids. But I think they will be back in the final product - as something in more advanced asteroids. Again - allowing players to choose if they want to play with them or not seems a good way out. I didn't like them, because making sure I am protected from them took hours and days real-life time, but I agree that hot regolith source is a nice thing for advanced bases.

Another topic great to be adjustable by options are germs. I see why KLEI decided to be more newbie-friendly with them, but many players would like them to affect the game a little more (or even much more). 

Options are great answer for many topics and fear not - I feel that at least most of them will be subjected to them in the final release. If not - buying DLC is optional as well, and even after the purchase there will be option to disable it :)

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lilibat    88
On 11/28/2020 at 2:37 PM, nehio said:

Hi there here's a few of my feedbacks for my DLC test, i'll try to avoid talking about any bugs here

- Smaller maps are amazing, a lot less lag much more fun !

But they aren't seperate maps. There is a thread elsewhere on the forum where someone shows that the big map is just subdivided into the small asteroids.  

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