Slagger

Don't Starve Together is Complex for Newbies

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Slagger    1515
7 hours ago, Sunset Skye said:

Regardless, you can turn events off in the world settings entirely.

The dst world is huge and getting hugger every update. Probably there is items even I didn't see before. One day we will have to active events and you just saying player should play all the game then he could play events. But meh just asked for a little thing.

Also where the hell edgy rick came to the topic lmao xD?

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Mike23Ua    8567
18 minutes ago, Slagger said:

The dst world is huge and getting hugger every update. Probably there is items even I didn't see before. One day we will have to active events and you just saying player should play all the game then he could play events. But meh just asked for a little thing.

Also where the hell edgy rick came to the topic lmao xD?

Personally my worlds don’t ever extend past like day 500 or so- The Xbox One version of the game can lag down so bad that it quite literally becomes unplayable at times, Long standing worlds with tons of things scattered around that world will lag it down that much faster.

But also I tend to just grow tired of a world once I find everything & have survived in it long enough that I just delete it & start a brand new world full of hostile things that hates me & wants me to die.

With only 5 available save slots I have to delete one or two of them each time I get bored of playing a particular character so I can start a new world as a another one.

Rarely ever have I used the Celestial Portal to swap characters in an already existing world- because my Mindset is that everything built in that world should be built by the character I am playing as that is their own particular story of survival & unless I’m doing some particular type of base building project- I don’t switch out characters & instead choose to just delete the world save & start fresh with a new choice.

In addition: Klei’s limited time content updates like Year of the Carrat have been known to completely freeze up & crash my Xbox One, like for example: if you had a world with YoTC stuff in it after YoTC ended and you put your Carrat onto the Podium thing to Inspect it’s stats Bam you just crashed the game for yourself and everyone else playing- So after learning this the hard way I hammered down & destroyed all YoTC related stuffs.

Lastly When Klei does new content updates i in particular do not like Retro-fitted content into existing worlds, while it is nice that this is an option for people who don’t want to lose their 2000+ day worlds, I tend to find that Retro-Fitting new content in my world adds that content in awkward ways, like placing Seaweeds, Crab King, etc way off at the edges of my world map someplace, Retro-Fitted versions of the content also seem to be in my experience smaller then their intended sizes should you have just opted to start a new world where that content was properly generated at the start.

These are my main reasons why my world day count never extends beyond 500 or so, and it’s also my reason I set my world Gen Settings to Random Seasons & Season Lengths so I can enjoy as much content as the game can offer, until my worlds meet the fate of their eventual expiration of day 500 or so to start a brand new save slot.

In fact: each time Klei releases a new Return of Them update one of my existing saves get axed so I can explore that new content in Non-Retro Fitted proper fashion.

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ArubaroBeefalo    6285
4 hours ago, Slagger said:

The dst world is huge and getting hugger every update. Probably there is items even I didn't see before. One day we will have to active events and you just saying player should play all the game then he could play events. But meh just asked for a little thing.

Also where the hell edgy rick came to the topic lmao xD?

If events disturb you when playing with friends for some reason, just turn them off before creating the world

 

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ArubaroBeefalo    6285
9 hours ago, minespatch said:

Well... LEt me throw in something that happened in Oxygen Not Included:

The game was too hard for players, so they made shorts to explain some mechanics to the game as "tutorials".

That happens with ds and dst. If you watch the trailers and update posters (i miss them) most of the things are explained

 

I was able to know how to unlock the new recipes from the archives just watching the trailer

Another example was when they added krampus, in the poster can be read a hint, or the a new reing trailer that shows the moon rock event, etc

Edited by ArubaroBeefalo
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Wardin25    1033

didnt klei make some sort of video where they talked about how when they told a new player "survive the night" the player would just focus on doing that and wouldnt take any risks,  which made the game boring so they decided to let the player figure out what to do for themselves

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Lumberlocke    1296

The original Don't Starve was complex, too. At least when you first start out. I find when you learn a game on your own/with little help it grows on you that much more because of the feeling of connecting two and two together.

In Don't Starve Together's case, that experience can be doubled, tripled even, depending on how many others you are learning with. :distant:

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Mike23Ua    8567

I probably wouldn’t have ever liked this game if it had a step by step tutorial, the fun and adventure of it is exploring and figuring things out for yourself- Klei can look into my Klei ID if they want to and see that out of their 52+ food dishes I’ve only learned maybe 17ish? My point is: I still manage to make plenty of Wet Goop, When was the last time a forum Vet who knows pretty much everything EVER made Wet goop? Every failure is a learning experience- You learn NOT to Chop at Lunar Grotto tree’s when at very Low Health, you also learn that if your Already Low on health while in this biome as Wigfrid that you can’t reliably fight anything down here (Molebat) to get Meat to avoid your impending starvation without dying to whatever your trying to kill for meat.

Theres a TON of Content I have yet to experience- Malbatross, Crab King, FuelWeaver, Toadstool, Mysterious Moon Stone Event, RockJaw Shark attack etc etc etc..

Theres content that I Have experienced that my friends don’t even know exists at all yet like creating pets at a pet den, giving Pig King a Championship Title, Creating a fully decked out Boat, Visiting Pearls Hermit Island, Stepping foot onto Lunar Island and getting stabbed to death violently by Saladmander, Finding Lunar Grotto & Ancient Library, etc etc etc..

As you can see- People do not and more importantly are not expected to know every little thing about every part of the game- and really that’s the most beautiful thing about DS/DST..

Its a huge game slam full of so so much content (and keeps getting more & more each update) My friends may have never been to Lunar Island.. and I may have never even SEEN Toadstool or Crab King yet.. but the point is- That Content is still there, waiting for me and my friends to find & discover it at our own pace when we stumble upon it.

We shouldn’t be trying to take that experience away from anyone.. because for me personally I love the thrill of figuring things out for Myself-

And to cement that fact home: Wigfrids Rework has been out for quite awhile now and out of all her song books I’ve only managed to craft two of them (Weaponized & that weird S word one that requires purple Gem) The others.. I don’t even know where to get the INGREDIENTS to craft-

But.. I am also assuming that many less skilled players then Myself don’t even know how to make the Black Feather Pencil that is required as part of the crafting ingredients for every last one of her song books.

If We were expected to know every little feature and detail before we could make suggestions on these forums off content updates we would like to see- Then I and probably 75% of their fanbase wouldn’t be able to provide any idea’s or suggestions.

But each time I see a NEW forum member join here to suggest something they more often then not get lashed into hell for not knowing X feature or X strategy- 

To say the least on that: It’s just not right guys.. please stop.

I haven’t gotten a damn clue what use YELLOW, ORANGE or GREEN Gems are good for, But when I finally killed Dragonfly she dropped several of them.. you know what those things are currently being used for in my game? They’re currently being placed in a Circle around her Marble Statue like decorative Jewelry.

I guess my point here OP is that you should let your friends play the game and learn things their way, at their own pace- and if it frustrates you that they ask what X item or X feature is good for, maybe teach them or give them clues.. 

I learned how to Summon BeeQueen NOT from watching videos or having people on Forums tell me how.. but Rather because I just so HAPPENED to be playing as Willow at the time I Inspected Bee Queen, and I did exactly what Willows inspection quote dares the player to do & I regretted it Afterwards.

I think that if Anything: Klei could go a couple extra steps further in making things more accessible to the less knowledgeable, stuff like easier difficulties like no sweat mode, easier bosses, tons more in-game inspection quotes that provide hints at what to do such as Willow & BeeQueen example. More updates to the Compendium that details the effects of the foods you learn- maybe the compendium could even be updated to list weapon tiers, the mobs you encounter + their attack/behavior patterns and best weapon to use on them.

Basically Something like Spelunky’s Journal log, that only fills in content once YOU discover its best uses/kill it /die to it.

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Dark Wun    8

Keeping a good game alive, bringing in new blood as they say.... everyone can chip in here. Support newer players by helping them learn this wonderful game. Answer questions, make suggestions. Too often I see experienced players berating and being condescending to newer players. It's the experienced players that will make the difference here.

Edited by Dark Wun
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Scrubsberry    383

I think this game could definitely benefit from some accessibility options, but going about doing it would be extremely difficult to put into the game since its contradictory to its design as you've said of everything being unknown. I feel like the original DS showed this type of philosophy with death as since it was permanent and there was only a few methods of reviving which could only be accessed if you were lucky with worldgen or were skilled enough to make them. Since it was rare, dying was common for new players so you could start anew with what you learned and then repeat. With DST however, reviving is a lot more common and accessible thanks to the multiplayer aspect of it, so dying becomes more frustrating and less about what you would learn from it. I think that's clear when you see a new player get killed by a tentacle, get revived, then go back to get their stuff only to die again. The only way to truly die in DST is to get bored, which is strange considering all the content it has to offer that many players will never see.

 

And I think that's the big issue when it comes to DST new players, they aren't going to play on servers forever and will only play temporarily, as more often then not they'll get to the end of Autumn or Winter before logging off since that's ~2.5+ hours of nonstop play that they may get tired of. Dying won't matter in pubs either, since they can just leave and join another server to repeat the process while never seeing a majority of what the game has to offer. New players never play long enough to see what DST has to offer. Unless they're playing with friends or on a solo world they frequent, they will probably never learn about a lot of things without the use of a guide or a wiki, as a lot of events or unique interactions (Oasis, Moon Staff event, Ruins, and Raid Bosses) require you to go out of your way to do specific things in order to do them which would be impossible to figure out without them. There's a reason why a majority of YouTube videos about DST are solely tutorials about items or enemies, because new players have no idea what they're doing and are in an environment that prompts them to not need to learn, since they can just revive again and again or leave when something challenging happens.

 

No huge content update will be enough if getting there in the first place is too much for a new player to get too, just look at caves and see how many people go in there to get things that aren't lightbulbs for lanterns. Don't Starve has an excellent hook for getting new players in with its presentation and multiplayer aspects, but after that a majority fall off and don't look any deeper without a group that's committed for playing for a long time.

 

I don't think a tutorial is what the game needs, rather pushes for new players to explore the sandbox and everything it has to offer. The best way I can come up with that is probably not perfect are map markers like how the thucite medallion and message in a bottle point players to areas of interest, as its a small nudge for them to go to where interesting content is at the cost of some of the exploration aspects. I think more things like that that point to areas such as the Lunar Island, Ruins, or Boss Areas could be enough to entice new players to keep going while not directly telling them that they NEED to kill it or go there, but know that it exists.

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BezKa    820

My experience with dst:

I wanted to play with friends. One of them already owned a multiplayer game called Don't Starve Together and told me it's pretty cool. We bought our other friend the bundle for birthday near the Christmas time and I bought the game for myself as well, so we can have some form of spending time when life won't let us meet in person (how predictive of us smh) 

We joined during the Winter feast event. Tried public servers, own hosted servers, never managed to survive long enough for Deerclops to spawn. We were confused, running around with winter hats and being scared of beefalos, dying to crawling horrors and struggling with character's perks and downsides (I went with Webber, birthday friend with Wormwood and the other friend with Woodie). 

We struggled through the event not doing a single thing related to it, except my friends dying to the gingerbread varg and I wasn't even there so I had no idea what they were talking about while they were screaming on vc. We didn't even see a single boss Christmas reskin. We heard about something called "Deerclops" and I dared to check the wiki to learn it comes in winter. 

 

We had to stop playing because school exists and siblings want the laptop too!

I kept playing because I own my dear pc and it's great. Played some DS, some dlcs, explored the year of the carrat event.

Survived my first winter, with many rollbacks and a lot of deaths to the terrorbeaks... Killed Deerclops with best strategy ever™ aka run around the forest and hope treeguards will spawn. 

Absolutely amazing experience. Learning everything slowly, setting our base on fire because "picking up my stuff by pressing space while I had a fire staff is a great idea" back when we didn't know rollbacks existed, killing spiders for monster meat to feed Wormwood and watch my friend get killed by insanity and not knowing how she went insane in the first place. Amazing. This game is wonderful, exactly because we had no idea what to do. Even when I was playing alone, discovering a werepig was an adventure like no other. Pointless if I had a box saying "Careful! Some creatures get affected by the full moon!" Showing up. Much more fun to be killed while crossing the forest hoping to not get hit by pigs for once. 

It is a hard game for newbies. Just like Sudoku. Or Minecraft. Or basically any game ever, this one doubling on the experience and making the whole thing so fun to discover and use the lack of knowledge as an upside, not a problem.

 I guess I just really love this game. 

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Shosuko    2586

My initial Don't Starve experience was pretty rough.  I didn't know how to build anything at first, and even once I learned how to make torches and campfires I didn't feel I had time to just sit there and read through the menus.  Also it can be tough to weigh up what you are up against sometimes, and as great as trial by doing is, I think without accessing the wiki its hard to really get a grip on the world.

What I would suggest they add inside the compendium an area with all of the build menus with some detail about what you can build so they can be reviewed while NOT under pressure to survive.  Let it be sorted by craft tier as well as a display all.  Also have a monster manual type area where you can review stats of monsters you've seen / defeated.  Give more general stats for seen, and more details stats for defeated.

I think just adding these two things to the compendium (and then pointing out in a new player tip that they can view these things in the compendium) would do a lot to help players onboarding.  I mean, wikis are great, but they can become outdated, get trolled, or be hard to access in different languages because its all up to the playerbase to build them.  If we can get the devs to pull at least some data from the game we can get reliable stats that can be localized reliably, and they can control what information is known / hidden if they wish to preserve the thematics of the game.

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sinisterrkid    1587
12 hours ago, KeshS said:

[snip]

You definitely have a good point, but keep in mind we are a very skewed and biased subset of players to take into comparisons. (Beware of survivorship bias!) Personally I'm still wondering about other aspects of the solo newbie experience and my main question offshoots from the OP's, and is:

Is there enough in the game to make most new players realize it is worth the initial trouble and frustration?

For example: does it even look right away like it's a big, complex game? The initial gameplay hasn't really changed in years, all new content focusing on us, experienced players. (Which, hey, I'm not complaining about).

The other thing I've been focusing on is the hassle of trying again (as a newbie): mostly you either lose max health cap, making subsequent play in that world more annoying, or you regen world, which takes a long time for a game you haven't even decided you liked yet.

Which is why I think Wilderness mode, which dodges all that, is best for learning, but it has a name and thumbnail image that actually detracts newbies from entering.

Wilderness is the actual Endless*, and changing its name to something more attractive to newbies is a simple solution that I would humbly suggest to the devs if it does turn out to increase retention. (no idea if it would, I'm just speculating)

 

*For newbies, after reviving a couple of times without knowing how to stockpile booster shots, endless is just another opportunity to start again at 20 health. Wilderness is losing progress that took you 10 minutes to make.

 

Edited by sinisterrkid
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