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Baguettes    159
1 minute ago, minespatch said:

Er, did we just get a message from Joe to calm down?:wilson_shocked:

We did, and that cooled down the thread.
Much appreciated, Mr. Joe! I totally thought this thread was going to be an endless debating and arguing place.

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Maxil20    1234
8 minutes ago, minespatch said:

Er, did we just get a message from Joe to calm down?

Okay in my defense I was writing my reply before he posted so I actually didn't realize he did until you brought that up, oops.

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BeeClops    671
14 hours ago, Maxil20 said:

But that's part of the reason I liked playing DS/T when I was new. The difficulty was brutal, but there was always stuff to strive for and encourage me to get skilled at.
[...]
The only bosses I do not appreciate at all are BQ/Crab king due to likely needing some sort of assisted method to reliably solo the fight, but every other  boss has some way of doing it normally.
 

Same here, i loved those days and it's the time i had the most fun playing DST, despite some miserable fails on my early attempts; option of scaling health would probably discourage players that struggle to ever fight the vanilla version. That being said, i don't care enough as it won't affect my gameplay, and if more people would enjoy the game that way then add sliders that could make the bosses easier(sliders to make them higher hp would be pointless imo, same fights but longer)

I just want to add that BQ can be fought solo reliable with no assistance and is probably my favorite surface fight. There is no setup required, just the usual armor+healing and knowing the grumble bees pattern.

Edited by BeeClops
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Mike23Ua    8374

The OPs post was not asking for strategies on how to fight bosses & with that in mind- I think that there are several things that if Klei wanted to: could make these fights more accessible when less players are involved in the fight then was originally intended.

Being able to recruit A.I. Pigmen/Merm followers and equip them with Helmet, Armor & Weapon would be helpful for players who play mostly Alone, Because in my experience fighting Dragonfly: A single player can’t do enough damage quickly enough to get her to drop her scales.

(I had a second player join my world and help me test this fight with Abigails petal buff and we were able to get scales off it in just a few hits..)

A cool Idea I had for Dragonfly (I’ve attempted to fight her enough times that I feel I can confidently make this suggestion) Is that I’ve noticed that Dragonfly’s Biome has Several Lava pits that when you beat up Dragonfly enough: She will flee towards & Spawn Larvae from, This is a unique feature for this fight and using walls to block them off feels like straight up cheating..

However there are features in the game that I’ve only ever seen used while attempting to roll your world back or Retro-fit new content- That Feature: Sinkholes & Cave Exits will temporarily seal off.

What if we could get a mechanic like this for when less players attempt to fight Dragonfly? Like what if it had a Battle Radius (like when she flees and returns to her spawn with full health if you move too far away from her area) that when less players are in the Radius: Several of her Lava Pits become Hardened Magma she can’t spawn Larvae from? When a single player fights her.. maybe all fire pits could seal themselves off except for one..

And in turn- Klei could update this fight so players can no longer cheat it by building walls around the pits because the Larvae will either explode through the wall or jump over the walls now.

The Less players in Battle Radius (Think of something similar to Feastclops Red circular Aurora) things like Self Sealing Lava Pits and lower Health apply.

This works both ways to make the fight Easier for Solo players & also Harder when more players are involved- she can start Enraged with double Armor when 6 players are attempting it with all lava pits active.

Dragonfly is really the only boss I’m attempting right now- But maybe people can provide cool idea’s for other Bosses.

I dislike being told “watch strategy videos, use cheese tactics or Git Good” 

Thats a very one sided way of looking at things: Because from MY perspective- I see it as content that is in the game, that could be enjoyed by more players the more accessible it was made to them.

From my personal experience: Building 16 marble armors, then building stone walls around her fire pits just seems like too much trouble then what it’s worth.. it’s not fun.. it’s just tedious & mostly annoying.

I’m only trying to kill D-Fly for the Twitch Furnace & Vampire Broodling skins. 

Currently I’m building walls around the fire pits (well all except one so it doesn’t feel like I am 100% removing this particular fights unique feature) while thinking- It would be cool if bosses simply scaled themselves: Not just in Health, not just with some slider you alter in the World Gen settings prior to hosting But Rather AUTO-Scales itself based on how many players are within its battle radius & got easier/harder based on how many players are actively in it’s area.

People of all skill levels should be able to get the utmost enjoyment out of the product they purchased, without being told to Quit complaining, watch videos & get good.

(I hope that this post inspires some really really good ideas & much better thought out community suggestions, maybe someone will even get to work on making some cool as heck mods like this onto the Steam Workshop.. the bottom line: is that I’m tired of trying to defend my point of view when I shouldn’t have to.. there should be greater efforts taken in making this content more enjoyable for all players, rather then just remaining to be how it is now.)

Please remain on topic & constructive to how Klei could improve the games Boss fights for Solo players. 
 

Thank You all very much for reading, and please I hope you do have a lovely Day <3.

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sinisterrkid    1580
5 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I didn't invent the car yet I drive one to work every day! so I watch what other people are doing.

I honestly think this has been the spirit of the game for a long time. Even in single-player, a lot of content was being added that was only reasonably expected for players to find through connecting with the community (wikis, streams, forum, guides...)

I am legitimately curious how many people have discovered how to revert the Aporkalypse by themselves, for example. (Not counting discovering it via digging through the code). 

12 minutes ago, Shosuko said:

I am actually super concerned about solo players being left in the dust with every update Klei releases.

I'm actually more concerned about new players being left in the dust with every update. I think it's as you said that solo players can eventually share in the exploits/strategies. But for people who don't get into the internet for the "how-to's" the game has been... pretty much identical for years.

Unless you stumble upon Lunar Island, or stumble upon how to activate Fuel Weaver (zero chance), and so on. All while trying not to die.

By the way, I'm totally fine with that model. I actually love having to learn from other people. Just saying that's an intriguing aspect of DS/T

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ArubaroBeefalo    5989
4 minutes ago, sinisterrkid said:

I honestly think this has been the spirit of the game for a long time. Even in single-player, a lot of content was being added that was only reasonably expected for players to find through connecting with the community (wikis, streams, forum, guides...)

I am legitimately curious how many people have discovered how to revert the Aporkalypse by themselves, for example. (Not counting discovering it via digging through the code). 

I'm actually more concerned about new players being left in the dust with every update. I think it's as you said that solo players can eventually share in the exploits/strategies. But for people who don't get into the internet for the "how-to's" the game has been... pretty much identical for years.

Unless you stumble upon Lunar Island, or stumble upon how to activate Fuel Weaver (zero chance), and so on. All while trying not to die.

By the way, I'm totally fine with that model. I actually love having to learn from other people. Just saying that's an intriguing aspect of DS/T

Klei also show hints in their trailers and update poster

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sinisterrkid    1580
1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Klei also show hints in their trailers and update poster

Right, but I don't know if it's enough for people "outside the community" to figure out they have to put a star-caller staff on the moon altar, wall it off with statues or lure plants, wait for full moon, go down the ruins, make a deconstruction staff, use it on the moon-caller staff, get to the archives and place it on the Orchestrina, for instance.

Again, I love that we have to consult each other to learn new content. But don't you think it's strange that almost everything (except new characters) that has been added after single-player Reign of Giants is made near-inaccessible for most players?

 

*Guessing that most players are either solo, or people playing in short-term pub worlds, or people with less experience, or that don't consult guides.

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Mike23Ua    8374

It takes 6 fully used tentacle spikes to kill Dragonfly but even given that: A solo player still can’t do enough damage to it with that by themselves to get it to drop its scales.

Meanwhile bring along a completely idle Wendy with Riled up Abigail & you’ll have that scale drop in a matter of seconds.

Its content that clearly was never designed with a solo player in mind, but it’s content that’s in the game and could probably be enjoyed by that solo player if it was reworked just a little bit for them.

This thread was to discuss potential ways Klei could make that content more accessible to that player-

And if you actually read my post before responding: Being able to equip a follower with battle helms, marble Armors and Tentacle spikes so they can essentially behave as that “Player Two” 

Would go a long ways in AT LEAST getting Dragonfly Scales to drop more easily.

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BeeClops    671

The scale you are dropping with another player in the first stage is just an extra scale, you'll get another scale when you kill her anyway. You might know this but it seems to me like you don't. And also a missunderstanding you seem to have, walling lavaes does not make them explode faster, thus does not change when she enrages. You'll actually hit her a lot more before the enrage by doing this then by running around for 2 minutes.

Needing to toggle between 5 weapons is such an unnecessary difficulty spike, especially on console. As stated, just use a hambat, tho i'm sure you'll find a reason not to. But at this point i'm quite sure Mike is not here for advice, if he would he would've defeated Dfly by now. 

Edited by BeeClops
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Mike23Ua    8374

Again- This thread IS NOT for giving Advice It is not contributing towards the actual topic of the thread and as such my entire response will be placed into a Spoiler Tag to avoid the thread being Off-Topic.

Spoiler

Rarely EVER have I crafted a Hambat in my ENTIRETY of playing DS Solo, its DLC expansions, and DST- The moment it’s crafted it goes on a Spoil Timer and Because I (and most other console players) don’t know the exact stats and best useages for the weapons or better yet the “Tier Class” that PC gamers classify each weapon under- Many of us just Assume that this “Hambat” is a Terrible Weapon, 
and in fact- My choice of using Tentacle Spikes for this fight was made directly from the D-Fly Wiki page itself: C680323C-9581-4ED6-A99A-1995D1C88465.thumb.jpeg.eae91a85e6c8cf52ef6c00abc21da5a7.jpeg

Which States it takes 539 hits from Tentacle Spike- or 462 to 924 with a Hambat to kill. To be Clear: Your very own Wiki makes it look like it’s an absolutely terrible Weapon choice for killing her. Slurtle slime even has stats for 550 hits way less than 924.. & I’m not even sure how you would even utilize THAT as a Weapon.

The Dark Sword or the newer Return of Them: Glass Cutter takes 404 hits to kill her, but any of that looks far more logical then 924 hits with a Hambat.

Call me stupid, call me hard headed, call me under-experienced I don’t really care what you call me.. I just know that this thread was not created asking for advice- And to continue to provide that should be considered as being off-topic from the OP’s original intentions for it.

 

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ArubaroBeefalo    5989
2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Again- This thread IS NOT for giving Advice It is not contributing towards the actual topic of the thread and as such my entire response will be placed into a Spoiler Tag to avoid the thread being Off-Topic.

  Hide contents

Rarely EVER have I crafted a Hambat in my ENTIRETY of playing DS Solo, its DLC expansions, and DST- The moment it’s crafted it goes on a Spoil Timer and Because I (and most other console players) don’t know the exact stats and best useages for the weapons or better yet the “Tier Class” that PC gamers classify each weapon under- Many of us just Assume that this “Hambat” is a Terrible Weapon, 
and in fact- My choice of using Tentacle Spikes for this fight was made directly from the D-Fly Wiki page itself: C680323C-9581-4ED6-A99A-1995D1C88465.thumb.jpeg.eae91a85e6c8cf52ef6c00abc21da5a7.jpeg

Which States it takes 539 hits from Tentacle Spike- or 462 to 924 with a Hambat to kill. To be Clear: Your very own Wiki makes it look like it’s an absolutely terrible Weapon choice for killing her. Slurtle slime even has stats for 550 hits way less than 924.. & I’m not even sure how you would even utilize THAT as a Weapon.

The Dark Sword or the newer Return of Them: Glass Cutter takes 404 hits to kill her, but any of that looks far more logical then 924 hits with a Hambat.

Call me stupid, call me hard headed, call me under-experienced I don’t really care what you call me.. I just know that this thread was not created asking for advice- And to continue to provide that should be considered as being off-topic from the OP’s original intentions for it.

 

That isnt a valid argument. You can easy see how powerful is a hambat when you kill spider with 2 hits

See? Raid bosses arent that grindy. Is lack of experience

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ArubaroBeefalo    5989
26 minutes ago, FrozenMountan said:

How much healing/armor should I prepare for dfly, I wanna try her at least once in my current world

Many. Until you learn how to kite her you will need a stupid amount of armor

I recommend you arround a stack of 30 healing food equivalent to pierogi and all the armor you can bring (the leftovers can be used for other future fights)

Once you kill her you will know how much you need and this number will decrease with your experience but always prevent than regret

Edited by ArubaroBeefalo

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D7X    262
6 minutes ago, FrozenMountan said:

How much healing/armor should I prepare for dfly, I wanna try her at least once in my current world

Entirely depends on how much you get hit. If you use the wall strategy for the larvae you're going to get hit at least every time she returns from spawning larvae since that first hit is difficult to dodge. I would suggest making a pile of helmets as big as you can afford next to where you plan to fight her, if you don't use them all that's great but you can use them up the next time. As for healing, if it's your first time, bring about ten pierogi and some healing salves if you have glands spare, really doesn't hurt to be over-prepared though so more is always better. Make sure you've got a panflute to deal with the enraged mode and be ready to use it when the larvae are almost dead. It's not a hard fight with the right set up, but it is long.

@Mike23Ua The hambat is a fantastic weapon, if you make it fresh for a boss fight it will be all you need to beat that boss even if you take way too long. It only really starts to be useless once it's in yellow freshness. For Dfly it's exceptionally good because she has a ton of health and it's cheap as hell to make one so your resource investment is kept low, something you were concerned about.

As for your argument, it seems you're not asking for a simple boss HP slider anymore, now you want bosses changed so people can't "cheese" them. I happen to like the cheese, I like that there are creative ways to beat the bosses available to me and other solo players that make use of more of the games mechanics. They make survival feel more intelligent rather than just hitting something with a stick over and over. There's also the grind element. Playing solo is already made hard because you have to do everything yourself, the little time/HP savers like walling off the lava pools in the Dfly arena make the fight easier sure, but they also make the prep time shorter for the entire future of that world. That frees me up to get other things done. I don't want there to be no advancement in my worlds, I want progression and for me that progression comes in the form of things like boss arenas and mob farms. I like the design of the boss fights, but if there's a shortcut to beating them quicker in the future I'm going to take it because I don't want to fight them at the same disadvantage every single time. I'm all for a boss HP slider, that does me no harm but you can't argue for the game to be adjusted to suit your playstyle if it actively damages my playstyle.

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viberr    912
38 minutes ago, FrozenMountan said:

How much healing/armor should I prepare for dfly, I wanna try her at least once in my current world

healing wise the answer is a lot but im gonna guess youre trying to tank dfly right?if so i recommend marble suits or theulecite suits and some theulcite crowns.me personally i use marble suits and theulecite crowns 

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__IvoCZE__    8538
6 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

  Hide contents

Rarely EVER have I crafted a Hambat in my ENTIRETY of playing DS Solo, its DLC expansions, and DST- The moment it’s crafted it goes on a Spoil Timer and Because I (and most other console players) don’t know the exact stats and best useages for the weapons or better yet the “Tier Class” that PC gamers classify each weapon under- Many of us just Assume that this “Hambat” is a Terrible Weapon, 
and in fact- My choice of using Tentacle Spikes for this fight was made directly from the D-Fly Wiki page itself: C680323C-9581-4ED6-A99A-1995D1C88465.thumb.jpeg.eae91a85e6c8cf52ef6c00abc21da5a7.jpeg

Which States it takes 539 hits from Tentacle Spike- or 462 to 924 with a Hambat to kill. To be Clear: Your very own Wiki makes it look like it’s an absolutely terrible Weapon choice for killing her. Slurtle slime even has stats for 550 hits way less than 924.. & I’m not even sure how you would even utilize THAT as a Weapon.

Call me stupid

Some people will call you under skilled just because you don't even understand how hambats work.
 

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