Nikki Darks

Opinions on DST's combat system.

Recommended Posts

Nikki Darks    440

Oh I've completely forgot about minions/beefalo.

Beefalo have a major flaw of being the utter snooze fest, most bafflingly slow and boring proccess in the entire game.

Beefalo taming is hellishly boring.

And minions are just like, either hit and run, but you're not the one doing it.

Or it's just, plain.

But yeah, I do kinda want to see each character have a unique of acting in combat, like Willow using fire or Wormwood's armour!

And omg yes! The AI just kills all the fun in combat, specifically AFW just sitting in a ring of lureplants and never attacking...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ZeeDragon    2245

I...don't really have an opinion. Everytime a thread like this pops up say some along the lines of "Do you like ___?" Or "The ____ in DST" "The ____ is _____". I can't really answer these kinds of questions because I like it as it is and just don't have anymore to say about it. 'M more of a kick-back-and-see-what-happens kinda person y'know? I'm not the kinda person that says "I don't like ______ and I think it should be changed to do _____.". I just...don't.

So...meh. It's fine.

Edited by ZeeDragon
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nikki Darks    440
1 minute ago, ZeeDragon said:

I...don't really have an opinion. Everytime a thread like this pops up say some along the lines of "Do you like ___?" Or "The ____ in DST" "The ____ is _____". I can't really answer these kinds of questions because I like it as it is and just don't have anymore to say about it. 'M more of a kick-back-and-see-what-happens kinda person y'know? 

So...meh.

I mean, you probably have an opinion? 

Like everybody else. These posts are here to share opinions and exchange opinions from different points of view!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ZeeDragon    2245
3 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

I mean, you probably have an opinion? 

Like everybody else. These posts are here to share opinions and exchange opinions from different points of view!

That's the problem, I don't. I know it exists, and I know that some people like it or hate it. But to me it's just a mechanic in a game, and I got nothing more to add. It's just....a mechanic in a game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1bubbainpa    3039

Perhaps this is why I’ve been liking Walter so much recently. He offers an alternative to the current melee meta we have for a glass cannon-risqué character.

He feels like an actual ranger character, where you have to make sure you have enough resources to craft ammo, with various rounds being more available as the game progresses and resources become more plentiful. Additionally, Woby helps further improve this play style, serving as not only a mount for Walter to easily reposition throughout the fight, but for extra storage so you can actually hold a large amount of slingshot ammo without sacrificing inventory space.

Disregarding how useful he currently is, Walter feels like a breath of fresh air in combat, where you always have the option to go for ranger combat, whereas before ranged combat was heavily limited to mass-producing blow darts and weather pains.

Edited by 1bubbainpa
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sinisterrkid    1580

I agree with the painting of the combat system as the most lacking system of the game, but I don't imagine how it could be improved. Never even seen a mod that presents a better alternative. (If there is one I would love to give it a try!)

So while I agree with you, I mostly align with what @ADM said. I have a lot of fun with the different cheeses as well, what can I say? :oops:

I totally get people who love fighting being uderwhelmed, though. Even Dragonfly fight has become more of a meditative experience than an intense one for me, lol

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike23Ua    8374

I think that the combat of DST could and in the case of Forge already has been improved.. but- Klei would probably have to build a whole new game engine for anything super fancy so my opinion without turning this into a TL:DR combat is fine as is, I like it and if they improve it GREAT! If they never do? I won’t lose any sleep over it

but if you want to read the TL:DR I’ll put my opinion in a spoiler.

Spoiler

The one thing I dislike about combat in DST is how most your problems can be solved by just walking far enough away in a straight line and then hitting them as they line up in a single file line trying to attack you one at a time. (Trust me you can do this with Bee’s & Spiders both..)

When their A.I. Could have them improved a bit to move about in a circular motion and then attack at you. 
same with the Nightmare hands that come to steal your fires at night, sure it’s a passive mechanic but one that can be solved by simply standing in front of the hand that never repositions itself and attempts to steal your fire from any other direction.

I hear all this talk about an Uncompromising Mod.. but I highly doubt that a Mod would deliver the kinds of advanced A.I. tactics I Want and Expect from Klei if they were ever to deliver their own version of a Uncompromising Mode.

Until a recent patch fix you could even have stayed Insane and simply out run shadow creatures till they Despawn out of the map.. Meanwhile, I see animations Already in the game of shadow hands grabbing my character and holding them down during something as a purely cosmetic clothing change animation and there I sit thinking.. people couldn’t out run these shadow creatures when at 0 Sanity if these same animations were used to have hands grab hold of and hold the player in place for a few seconds.

PIGMAN A.I. Is more intelligent and engaging then fighting Spiders/Bees at least pigs DO Reposition and attack from new angles.

My final thoughts are that the combat and more importantly the enemy A.I. Involved in combat.. Could use some tweaks, & improvements & offer a brand new exciting way to play.. but to do that would probably require a whole new game engine- so would it really be a worthwhile investment for Klei to embark upon?

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShadowDuelist    7633

The combat system is technically fine, I think, I mean many popular games including MOBAS have the exact same system of hitting and dodging with right timings, the main difference in DST is that you have to know how to manage your inventory, and that the "special" effects of attacks are very few.

The forge did a lot of things right, and I think we're slowly seeing implementations of that in the base game. I think what could be expanded upon are the weapons effects not just outright boosting damage. For example the fire staff should probably behave more like in the forge, instead of a ranged ignition tool. How to balance that is a matter of debate, but I think you get the idea.

4 minutes ago, 1bubbainpa said:

Perhaps this is why I’ve been liking Walter so much recently. He offers an alternative to the current melee meta we have for a glass cannon-risqué character.

Walter is indeed a cool alternative, but also somewhat missing opportunity. I think his greatest perks with the slingshot should be crowd control, over damage: The poop pellets should probably have a longer lasting effect, specially on mobs that instantly re-aggro, like hounds. The freezing pellet should probably have a small splash radius (like a flingo snowball) and the slow pellet... I dont know.. probably get some AOE too? or leave a small area on the ground for a few seconds that all enemies touching it get slowed, or something, it's just not that useful for how expensive it is...

But the point is that maybe with the combination of speed, freezing, de-aggro and slowing he should be keeping enemies busy while slowly dealing damage at range OR letting other damage dealers (Wigfrid, Wolfgang, Wendy, Weremoose) do the real damage while he keeps them busy. I think that would add a lot of "uniqueness" to his combat style.

The weremoose, having a special AOE attack offers a completely unique way to fight as you can use the charge to attack, dodge, reposition, flee, catch up on far away enemies, or damage many enemies at a time. Wortox also offers a unique way to fight having a permanent dodge perk, and a unique healing. Wendy has a permanent AOE with Abigail, and with correct positioning you can also use Abi as a mobile shield.

Wicker is due for a rework still but even today, being able to spam sleepytime stories, gives her a unique approach to fights. However given how the sleep effects works on some mobs, its only useful in certain situations, but that kind of approach of fights could certainly be expanded as well.

TL;DR: It's not so bad, it could grow in both niche character specific things, and new weapon effects and uses.

 

  • Big Ups 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cheggf    1291
1 hour ago, Nikki Darks said:

So how does a game manage to have such a painfully, noticeably bland and boring system that's one of the most important parts of the entire game?

By not having combat be one of the most important parts of the entire game. Combat overall is a rather minor part of the game. Think about how much time you spend exploring in the early game. All the time you spend finding food. All the time you spend relocating early game resources. All the time you spend creating structures and making a base. All the time you spend gathering various resources. All the time you spend doing absolutely anything except fighting, and then all the time you spend fighting.

Most things are killed quickly enough where the simplistic combat system doesn't really get noticed. What all lives long enough for you to notice? 4 bosses that appear once every 2 or 3 hours, then a handful of more bosses that you have to go out of your way to fight. Not a major part of the overall game.

Could the combat system be better? Sure. Does it need to be better? Not really, it's sufficient at what it does. 

  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pikapikap    1462

imo It might be interesting to modify the attack methods of mobs and bosses, such as random attack intervals, new skills? or increase some of their own health or armor

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Minitte    171

When i play, I just hold down the attack button and just tank the damage.

Maybe DS New Home will have some new mechanics. I think I saw a staff cause an explosion or something.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Zeklo    19385

I definitely want more diversity in kiting. Most are just hit x time than back off. Rinse and repeat.

Sentrypedes require backing off twice before the rinse and repeat which is simple yet refreshing compared to most everything.

I think if enemies/bosses had more difficult patterns we wouldn't have such massively tedious health walls-which I personally detest.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Majestix    442

Personally I love the Fuelweaver fight. Also, regarding

3 hours ago, Nikki Darks said:

It's probably one of the reasons people never bother with Misery Toadstool

I don't know about "people", but me personally, I will kill the misery toadstool on any world that I plan to play for any extended period of time, since her blueprint is essential to me for multiplying shroom skins.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PrezPara    555

I think the best solution for this would be exaggerating the uniqueness of every fight. Like someone else said, every fight should be unique even if at it's core you hit the enemy a couple times and back off. Like how beefalo will defend other beefalo that got hit around them. A way to exaggerate that would be to perhaps make the beefalo yell every third attack and make every beefalo near you in a huge (bigger than hitting) distance aggro. Ofc that's just an example and probably a bad one at that, but you get the point.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hornete    6132
31 minutes ago, Owlrus said:

I'm just sick of everything revolving around fighting in general, personally. I'd like to see more creative ever-present threats that give more diversity to the non-combat oriented characters as well.

This!!!! Please!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BezKa    715

I like it the way it is. I've been playing Hamlet with Wheeler recently and still cannot use her Dodge properly, I'm just too used to normal style of combat (that still hasn't brought me much success... There's so many bosses I am not able to kill. Something to experience in the future). And fights don't fail to make me excited so I can't ask for more. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
chirsg    460

When it comes to combat, the first thing that will come to most people's mind is pvp. Dst does not have a combat system suited to that. 
For pve, it certainly works for what the game is. This isn't a fighting game. You could play any version of don't starve and never fight in order to survive indefinitely in the world.

It's a very barebones system and once any player get over the wall of intimidation they reserve for themselves, it's simple.

What's punishing about don't starve but less punishing in don't starve together is how death affects you. That's probably what gave combat a lot of it's weight. You slip up in don't starve and your entire world is just gone. No 120 second timer, no life giving amulet bailing you out, you're just dead.

Playing together, it's easy to step back and see what combat basically is in the game. Hit and run. That isn't to say that it's boring.

You have the fuelweaver fight that demands use from a lot of tools if you want to undertake it yourself. If you want to kill klaus hitless or without damage as quickly as possible, you have to have speed augmentation available and it becomes a different sort of hit and run. A lot more engaging.

And as other characters, fighting is different. You have wortox who can do soul tricks, willow with bernie, and my personal favorite, woodie's moose.
Each charge has to be calculated enough where you won't be running into danger.

Against crowds, fighting is also crisis management. things can tend to get out of hand and your basic hit and run won't always work because in some situations, getting a hit in means getting hit 10 times yourself so you need to figure out how to succeed in that or just retreat.

It depends on how you look at it.

For the most part, dst's combat works well for what it needs to do, but for pvp, it just doesn't work or prove which player is the better one.


I would totally be in favor of a different game mode catered to pvp with emphasis on proper spread out hitboxes when throwing out moves, a dodge mechanic perhaps, keybinds, blocking etc. But even then, it would probably require a totally different team separate from klei. I won't give the cookie cutter answer that's the trend with people on this forum where they say "I'd rather klei just work on dst update, wah wah wah."

But the sentiment isn't lost on me. Klei's staff probably have other things on their plate than worrying about the combat in the context of pvp, but again, if it's feasible, having a different team work on a new pvp game mode would be pretty nice to have. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Articestone    654

If you want some thing better than the current combat system, you can just use mods and yes Mike23Ua if you happen to see this, i know console players can't use mods but life is unfair deal with it, eventually mods will be added to console. 

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ryvrdrgn14    188

The combat system seems fine to me and is easy for most people to pick up and understand. At the end of the day, anyone with latency will just stack armor and pierogi to facetank.

They can add a character that rewards dodging by having his or her damage increase with each attack as long as he or she doesn't get hit or  take damage.

I am not expecting DST to have things like chain combos using different keys. That would be silly. If I wanted that kind of complexity I'd load up Street Fighter V or Guilty Gear.

Edited by ryvrdrgn14
worbs
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now