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Szczuku

How to cool down water early/mid-game

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Szczuku    14079

I'm puping water from like 2 Cool Steam Vents and a Salt Geyser. The water goes through 2 ancient machines that make cold but it only makes the surrounding area hot instead of getting colder. It's in a radiant pipe made from refined gold and I've made it go like 80g per pocket.

Am I doing something wrong or should I wait untill I've drained the geysers dry from the water that accumulated b4 I tamed them?

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Steve8    170

Depends on what you want you want to do with the water. If you electrolyze it, it's easier to cool down the hot oxygen instead of the water

Early game you don't really need to cool down water on most asteroids. You could put a pipe through the ice biome itself. There is tons of cold there to use. And mid game you could get an aquatuner already if you rush for some oil or set up glossy dreckos early on

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gabberworld    31

early game for everyone is different, i usually search location where is ice located and use polluted water for go thro at there. for not melt too fast i  using insulated pipe  at there and 1 or 2 tiles radiant.

i not use anymore the water self for cooling , so always i try find polluted water

that is what i todo, also for extra cooling i could use also same method for gas oxygen.

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psusi    285
2 hours ago, Szczuku said:

The water goes through 2 ancient machines that make cold but it only makes the surrounding area hot instead of getting colder.

I can't figure out what this means.  You feed an AETN hydrogen and it becomes cold; it does not transfer heat.  A picture is worth a thousand words.

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gabberworld    31
9 minutes ago, psusi said:

I can't figure out what this means.  You feed an AETN hydrogen and it becomes cold; it does not transfer heat.  A picture is worth a thousand words.

maybe he using and want cool down too much at same time or that surrounding area is vacuum

Edited by gabberworld

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Szczuku    14079
25 minutes ago, psusi said:

I can't figure out what this means.  You feed an AETN hydrogen and it becomes cold; it does not transfer heat.  A picture is worth a thousand words.

That's the name: AETN.

Here's my setup:

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.5c6b4dfbe1159cdcb95e8a23bdbaa69a.png

image.png.e8893203cbd18891df6ff8b5efdb62a1.png

image.png.f1846bfadeee0e510b12c34df53096a5.png

image.png.dc191b9cfc1131191d1d526bdc33e01a.png

image.png.2ba7c7e6594fea55f22f14f030e26c3d.png

 

1 hour ago, Steve8 said:

If you electrolyze it, it's easier to cool down the hot oxygen instead of the water

Noted

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psusi    285

An AETN doesn't absorb that much heat.  You're dumping more heat in the area than the AETN is absorbing.

 

Edited by psusi
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gabberworld    31

there is mod what enables build the AETN self. if use that then i quess you can build more these  for cooling.

mod name is BuildableAETN

Edited by gabberworld

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Steve8    170

An AETN works pretty well for cooling oxygen when the water is cooler. You can easily chill it down to 0°C when you electrolyze the normal polluted water or salt water pools for example (and those last for hundreds of cycles). It will struggle when the input water is hot however

Edited by Steve8

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spkthed    67

To clarify, are you looking for *how* to cool down gasses and liquids, or are you curious as to why AETN's looked like they were transferring heat to the environment instead of deleting it? General dealing with heat strategies?

For another how - steam turbines and aquatuners, or thermoregulators.

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Szczuku    14079
28 minutes ago, spkthed said:

To clarify, are you looking for *how* to cool down gasses and liquids, or are you curious as to why AETN's looked like they were transferring heat to the environment instead of deleting it? General dealing with heat strategies?

Simply how to cool down water without rocket science stuff or exploits

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mitchferg01    0

I insulate the area around the AETN and you may need to loop the water using a resevoir and a thermo test to let it out when it is cool enough.

also, make sure you have hydrogen going into the AETN or it doesn't do anything.

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Steve8    170

Aquatuners:

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

But as said, on some of the asteroids it's not necessary unless much later. If you have slime or tide pool biomes there is plenty of cool water around for a long time.

Toilets also produce excess water each use which can be quite useful.

With a small pool of warm water you can also mix it with cold water via ice temp shift plates. Takes a lot of dupe labor to build, but works well as a stopgap measure in the early game. Even if you aren't interested in the cooling itself it's a good way to turn ice into water.

It just sounds like you are rushing water cooling solutions when there are easier alternatives. Playing on very hot maps with little water that's different, but normally you can go for quite a long time without actively cooling down water

Edited by Steve8

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Neotuck    2303
27 minutes ago, Szczuku said:

Simply how to cool down water without rocket science stuff or exploits

in my experience, don't tap into steam vents for water early game.  Look for other sources like PW or slush geysers, also look for ways to conserve water like bathroom loops, grow crops that don't need to be irrigated, and use algae terrariums instead of electrolyzers (when built right, they have a higher water to oxygen ratio)

Edited by Neotuck
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Neotuck    2303

Wheezeworts is another alternative, most maps with ice biomes will have about 30 average and phosphorite is easy to produce with balm lillies and dreckos

don't pipe directly on top of them, they will wilt at 95C

Edited by Neotuck

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SamLogan    974
9 hours ago, Szczuku said:

I'm puping water from like 2 Cool Steam Vents and a Salt Geyser. The water goes through 2 ancient machines that make cold but it only makes the surrounding area hot instead of getting colder. It's in a radiant pipe made from refined gold and I've made it go like 80g per pocket.

Am I doing something wrong or should I wait untill I've drained the geysers dry from the water that accumulated b4 I tamed them?

In fact, you don't need to cool water in early game, mostly for Electrolyser which fix the temperature at a minimum at 65°C, more if the water is hotter.

Secondly, it's easier to cool oxygen (1Kg / sec) than the water (10 Kg). So, you need 6 to 8 wheezwort for your oxygen pipes, and same to convert steam to water. Just use this site : https://oni-assistant.com/tools/coolingcalculator

AETN and Wheezewort are more efficient in a hydrogen environnement, see this : https://oni-db.com/details/coldbreather

Edited by SamLogan
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Gurgel    1917
4 hours ago, Szczuku said:

Simply how to cool down water without rocket science stuff or exploits

You can pretty much forget about that unless it is a very low flow volume. The problem is that water has a very high SHC. Aquatuner + Steam Turbine is about the only thing that can handle it for the flow volume you usually see. The only other high-performance cooler in the game is the cool slush geyser via its output.

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DelphiTsar    1

Water has a relatively high specific heat of 4.179 (DTU/g)/°C, meaning that heating one gram of water by one degree Celsius requires 4.179 DTU, or 4.179 joules.

The reverse is also true. You need -4.179 DTU to cool down one gram of water one degree. So to cool 10kg by one degree a second means -41.8 KTU/s. The AETN does -80 KDTU split between 16 tiles so you can only cool 5kg a second at perfect efficiency/insulation, so probably more like 4.5kg. That will decrease the temp by only 1 degree, so 16 ticks means you can cool 4.5kg/s by 16 degrees. Unless you loop it through using a temp sensor. Deleting heat without an aquatuner below a steam turbine is an ultra pain.

Feel free to check my math, I could be very wrong but that fits my gut check at how good they are.

 

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ExEvolution    26

How early-mid game are we talking?

Do you have access to 1200kg steel to make an aquatuner + 200kg plastic for a steam turbine? If you do, that's all of the mid game materials you will need to make a water cooler (well, that and whatever metal you decide to use for the radiant pipe sections)

3x5 room for steam turbine

3x5 steam room directly below it that contains the aquatuner. Fill this room with at least 100kg water per tile, with a small layer (1 full 200k bottle of petroleum is perfect). Vacuum out the remaining gases.

A smallish room directly below that, anywhere from 2x2, 4x2, or 4x4 is good for a cold "battery". Make a radiant pipe loop within this block, looping from the AT back to itself. Fill this room and the aquatuner loop completely with polluted water. This is where you will "store" the cold from your aquatuner. On one side of this attached to the geyser room, make a thermocouple which is essentially 2 walls of diamond window tiles or metal tiles sandwiching a mechanized airlock. That airlock should be controlled by a thermo sensor inside the geyser room. Set the thermo sensor to the desired water temperature.

A simple diagram of the room layout to get you going. The bigger the cold battery, the more stable the temperatures, but know this uses a lot of power and can't necessarily keep up with the full flow of most geysers with a single aquatuner until you have super coolant, but it does recover I think 60% of the power used through the steam turbines.

With a slightly more complicated aquatuner loop, you can also have the AT cool the steam turbine as well, a single turbine can not keep up with the heat output of a geyser without sapping cooling from below.

 

of course, all of the rooms are in insulated tiles, a minimum of igneous rock, ceramic would be ideal

water cooler.png

If you want a super early game option that can also boost your water reserves, build tempshift plates out of ice in your water storage and its like having a nice glass of ice water

Edited by ExEvolution
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TheMule    258
2 hours ago, DelphiTsar said:

Feel free to check my math

To cool down 273.5g/s of water from 95C to 25C, it takes:

4.179 * (95 - 25) * 273.5 = 80,007 DTU/s

So one AETN can cool down 273.5g/s of water from a geyser (salt/clean water) or a turbine (95C). That's 1/10 of the output of the average geyser (about 3kg/s). 
 

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DelphiTsar    1
I'm off thanks. Just simplifying to solve for x. So T1 is the Temp you have T2 is the temp you want. X will be how much water you can pass through(Theoretic max, IE Perfect Insultation and really good conductive material). Other materials it's the Heat Capacity divided by 80k to get whatever to replace for 19143.3.
 
X≈19143.3/(T1 - T2)

Plugging in the other direction 10kg at 95C will drop to a whopping 93C at -80kDTU oof.

 

44 minutes ago, TheMule said:

To cool down 273.5g/s of water from 95C to 25C, it takes:

4.179 * (95 - 25) * 273.5 = 80,007 DTU/s

So one AETN can cool down 273.5g/s of water from a geyser (salt/clean water) or a turbine (95C). That's 1/10 of the output of the average geyser (about 3kg/s). 
 

4.179 * (T1 - T2) * X = 80,007 DTU/s

 

Edited by DelphiTsar

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TheMule    258
43 minutes ago, DelphiTsar said:

Plugging in the other direction 10kg at 95C will drop to a whopping 93C at -80kDTU oof.

Another way of looking at it is that the AETN is 7.3 times less powerful than an aquatuner. So if an AT drops the temp of 10kg of water by 14C, the AETN drops it by about 2C.

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simonchvz    40

If you're going the AT+steam turbine route for a steam vent and don't need _all_ the water cooled down to 25C, I've found it's generally more efficient to go the other way and heat the steam up using an AT.  With a couple turbines and an AT sitting in oil set to turn on when the temp drops below a threshold of about 135C, you can split the turbines' output pipe to top off a loop of water through the AT.  That gives you two outputs for hot + cold water in about a 4:1 ratio. 

It's a bit heavier on materials up front since there's no heat sink to keep the vent from overpressuring, but 3 turbines and a few hundred kg of oil + temp shift plates have kept every cool steam vent I've encountered clear.

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