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Theukon-dos

Ranking characters on how much they need a re-work and explaining why.

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Theukon-dos    2832

Quick Disclaimer: Everyone's entitled to their own opinions. However, I tried to be as Objective as possible in making this list, and will try to back my claim up with Evidence and reasoning. I'm also not going to spare new characters/characters that have already been re-worked. And with that out of the way, Let's get to the list

645843873_DSTreworkneededtierlist.thumb.png.2a674621863039ac439818408a4d9f86.png

THE SIMPLE ONES:

A few of these guys I don't really have much to say on, So in interest of keeping things short and keeping your attention, I'll cover them *grabs mic* In song form! (and there'll be an Appendix at the end to list what changes I'd make)

Winona's rework was threadbare

a Pick and swap for those who care

Catapults are much to cheesy

and spotlights leave you feeling queasy

 

Wendy got her rework well

but hits to hard with Abigail

What's the point of being weaker

if you simple have a sister?

[Chorus to break up the song so it doesn't sound awkward]

Wortox really is quite swell

with ups and downs and quirks that sell

But so many souls you'll simply drown

between birds and bugs and bats and clown

 

Warly's an Epiphany 

of design and philosophy

But he picks and swaps with ease

and his taste is lame to cheese.

Spoiler

Suggested changes:

Nerf catapults, Buff spotlights, and give a reason to play Winona consistently instead of just swapping to and from her.

Nerf the Damage boost that Wendy gets from Abigail, or get rid of that downside all together and give her something interesting

Prevent Wortox from getting souls from Small, easily farmable creatures. Getting 24 HP from a single butterfly is a bit excessive

Give Warly an Upside that boosts him specifically, Such as his 33% extra stats from Shipwrecked. And make his downside a bit harder to manage, as as it currently stands it can be avoided with only meaty stew+bacon and eggs. A counter-based system as opposed to a time-based system would do the trick

And that's everyone I wanted to summarize. What? I said I'd do it in song form, I didn't say it would be a good song. 

 

Right then, let's get into the other characters that I didn't list.

 

Wes:

as much as his patheticness has become a meme, Wes as a character doesn't contribute anything to the team that another character could do better. He's also not very interesting as a challenge character, as all his downsides are just Wilson, but slower. I would make him a support character who had a hard time standing on his own, but could greatly assist those he was playing with

Wurt:

Wurt is, put simply, A mess. She doesn't contribute much to the team that can't be acomplished with bunnymen or pigmen, She's a vegetarian with nothing to do with farming, She's a summoner who doesn't rely on her summons, She's a base builder who's buildings come in the flavors of "Pigman re-skin" and "Violent pigman re-skin" And the merm king is more of a hassle to maintain than it is to just let him die and then promote a new merm when you need something done. Her character is, by all measures of the word, a mess. A mess in desperate need of cleaning up.

Webber:

Webber's main issue is that spiders are to weak to do any combat, and he lacks any major utility abilities, so he's almost entirely delegated to farming spider drops, which is kinda cruel considering they're supposed to be his "friends". There are a lot of directions Klei could take his character, so I'll leave it upto them to decide which direction to go

Wolfgang and Wigfrid:

These two characters are compared a lot, and for a good reason. Wolfgang out-classes Wigfrid in basically every way He hits harder, has more effective HP, Has a pathetic downside, and has a speedboost, as though his Damage wasn't already broken enough. So because of this, a lot of people have been wanting Wigfrid to get re-worked. These people however, are dead wrong.

Wigfrid's quite possibly the best-designed character in the game. Her damage and resistance make an impact and but arn't overwhelming, Her Vampirism is a unique downside, Her Carnivorous nature is a fun downside that actually effects how you play, due to being unable to exploit the high hell out of Shrooms and Cactus, among other things. Wolfgang though only has the excessive amount of damage combined with a downright broken speedboost and downright laughable penalties for anyone who's semi-experienced with the game.

I know saying simple "Implement a mod" is generally frowned apon, but I can't think of any better way to improve apon Wolfgang than Toroic's mod "Wolfgang: Stranger newer powers" It nerfs his overall combat ability (not his damage), gives him some good strongman upsides, and gives him an actual downside that's more interesting than just "Hungry faster". It's quite possibly the best possible solution

 

Wickerbottom:

Wickerbottom is weird. She's often cited as one of the most powerful characters in the game, but this power is condensed almost entirely into 2 of her books, those being applied horticulture and on tentacles. She does have some edge uses with Birds of the world and sleepy time stories. But whenever someone talks about how powerful she is, it's almost always about those two books. She also lacks any notable downsides, sense cooking food restores freshness anyways, and sleeping's only really good for Wormwood and Walter.

Generally, I think it would be good if the sheer god-killing power of those books was diminished, with her other books seeing a bit more utility on their end. Because when is the last time anyone un-ironically crafted "The End is Nigh!" for something other than overcharging a WX. Speaking of whom

WX-78

He's boring. There's no better way to put it. His downside is barely a thing, his first upside is becoming nothing more than a massive stat sponge, and his second downside is just "Ignore the entire spoilage aspect of the game until your food is literally just a pile of mold and filth" Oddly, Despite being portrayed as a souless killer robot, he doesn't have any perks that would go with this. He only ignores spoilage, which could easily be passed off as a strong stomach, He doesn't have any boosts to combat abilities, he doesn't gain sanity from killing fleshlings. The only thing "Robot" about him is his vulnerability to water. Like Webber there are a lot of ways Klei could go about fixing him, so I'll leave it to them.

Walter:

Walter is... Fine, I guess. He's similar to Wurt in that he's clearly trying to be several things at once while doing none of them exceptionally well. He's called the fearless; and credit where credit's due, I do like the idea of having a character that interacts with HP and sanity differently than other survivors, and he actually takes a decent chunk of sanity damage when hit, so I do like this. But then he also has a slingshot, so I guess they also wanted him to be a ranged character? And then Woby just kinda exists entirely separately from the rest of his character. Maybe they wanted him to be a bit more nomadic? but he doesn't gain anything from being nomadic, or loose anything for playing like non-nomadic characters.

Really all I want from Walter is for his kit to be a bit more tightly-knit. If say, Woby could attract the attention of certain mobs due to being easy pray, thus giving her an internal synergy with Walter's slingshot, then he'd definitly feel a lot less disjointed than he does now.

Wormwood:

Wormwood's actually probably one of the best characters in the game, from a design standpoint. His downside in particular is simultaniously one of, if not the harshest, but also the most fun downside in the game by a mile. Really his only issues are

A. He's quickly designated the seed slave of the server, which can make things boring for him

B. Some of his custom items are a bit underwhelming. The compost wrap is Both Literal and Metaphorical crap, due to a long animation for only 30 HP, the bramble vest has extreamly low durability and only does something when the wearer's hit, which is the exact opposite of what Wormwood want's to do. And... actually no, That's really it, considering he doesn't have many crafts in the first place. It would also be nice if he could force himself to bloom somehow, so that blooming was a bit more of an active perk instead of just something you have for 1/4th of the game time.

Maxwell:

To be honest, I'm quite happy with where Maxwell is. His puppets make sense for his character, he has some strong utility, and while his downside's simple, his HP is so comically low that it can keep you on edge. He does have some issues though, Mainly the fact that Shadow duelists are possibly the most useless feature that any character has. I've also seen some desire for Maxwell to be a bit more in-tune with Magic and shadows, which could be a fun addition if done well.

Wilson:

It would be great if Wilson got some actual perks and playstyle, but we all know it's not going to happen, so there's no point in bringing it up any further.

Woodie:

I do ultimately understand why Klei gave Woodie 2 other Wereforms instead of doing what literally every single DS Woodie main wanted, though It would be nice if Woodie got some more prominent downsides. His Treegaurd is more of a perk than a downside, and the full moon curse (literally) only happens once in a blue moon. After all, Woodie's curse is still just that, a Curse, even if he is more in-tune with his inner beast.

Willow:

Honestly, I could do a whole essay on Willow's rework, and probably will at some point. But for the time being, Her Rework just baffles me.

 

Willow was always a fire-based character, Her quotes revolve around fire, Her perks in the base game revolved around fire, and she could do some pretty fun Stuff with it. But when DST came around, they ended up Snuffing most of that fire out. Now, this wasn't entirely unjustified at the time. However, Despite this being an obvious change to prevent greifing, Klei has done practically nothing to negate other forms of griefing, such as crafting torches, hammering structures, pressing RMB in the fridge, or literally just logging out with an inventory full of goods. Voltgolts could easally be driven to extinction by griefers, and Klei didn't officially fix this until after they patched the bug that the community used to get around it themselves. Klei has shown that they barely care about greifers, yet Willow Was the one to take what little flak they did have.

 

And then, When the character refreshes where announced, many players hoped that Willow would finally re-gain her lost spark, That she would get the unique the unique, fire-based perks that she always deserved. But did she get that?

Nope

Instead, they decided to focus on that god forsaken teddy bear.  The one feature added as an after thought to satisfy all the people who complained about Willow being gutted when ported to DST is the one they decided to focus on. They didn't give the Pyromaniac fire, they gave her a bear. It's just baffleing that any train of thought could lead to this conclusion.

Hell, This was the same update that, through her animated short, revealed that Willow wasn't just a Pyromaniac, She was a Pyrokinetic. She can literally control fire with her mind, yet it took the Entire forums rioting just to give her fire immunity back. Just imagine the perks that she could have gotten with this revelation

>Fire doesn't spread to most objects

>Can extinguish fires from a distance at a small cost of sanity

>Can light mobs on fire without destroying drops.

Willow could have simultaneously been the perfect fire character while also having the hardest time with fire-based griefing.

Klei, I know you don't usually answer community questions, but I still have to ask. Why the bear? Nobody liked the bear, nobody cared for the bear, nobody wanted the bear. So why focus on the bear? I don't blame you if you don't answer though. I'd probably argue with you anyways.

 

Anyways, I think I got everyone. I hope you enjoyed my sleep-deprived self ranting on about character design for however long it took you to read that. If I forgot anyone, just call me out, and I hope you have a good day.

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Owlrus    3951

I find Woodie's Weremoose form very underwhelming in circumstances where it would almost be better to use a normal armor/weapon; not to mention his charge ability is outclassed by Abigail in many aspects. I wish that, upon using the weremoose totem, Woodie gain 150 temporary health (that is lost upon reverting back to normal and does not refill his health in any way) to both encourage use of the totem and to help with tanking without need of things like Jellybeans to be viable. Furthermore, I personally feel as though totems should have a longer spoilage as it would be far more convenient than to go out of your way to farm more monster meat on top of planning days ahead when you may not even use them.

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Mike23Ua    8418

There will always be people who disagree with the direction Klei is taking the game in, I may find a character rework that I DONT Like (so far I’ve loved all of them but they can’t perfectly hit the mark on everyone and satisfy the entire forum community)

Thing is though- I know that Klei does the best they can to hit a General “ball park” area of what the majority of players want to see.

Im just going to say it- I hate Current Wes.. hate him hate hate hate him, in single player he was perfectly fine- But as I’ve stated time and time again.. in Multiplayer a “Challenge” character is made less of a challenge when he has other people’s abilities helping him survive better.

Wendy for free infinite sanity & Bestowment damage buff, Wortox for heals for days, Wormwood/Wickerbottom for food anywhere at anytime, Wigfrid for Armor and Weapons, Woodie for faster harvesting of Wood that completely saves tool durability, Wolfgang to literally Superman punch something to death with his absurd strengths..

The TL:DR- In DST Wes’s challenges only make him a hinderance to a team rather than actually being helpful..

And Klei could change that- Maybe the “Joke” Balloon Battle Mech he had could be 120% useless to Wes.... but if any non-Wes player uses it, it would pack quite a punch.. 

As far as characters who have ALREADY been Reworked I would only like to see Minor Tweaks at best..

Using Winona, Woodie and Willow as my examples-

Winona’s duct tape should repair basic tool durability (basic tool meaning spear, axe, Pickaxe.. none of that OP Darksword stuff..) and Burned structures for a take on the saying “Plumbers Tape fixes everything”

Her Spotlight should scare away bats- A huge problem on Xbox console servers where cave holes are plentiful and everywhere.

Woodie- Wendy and Winona both have unique craftable structures in the form of Machines & Sisturn.. Woodie only has a few eatable totems.. Meh- I want a Totem similar to the Pig Torch Totems, Something that I can go to and offer my Idol to to Trigger my Transformation.

(Yes Woodie players.. this means you’ll have to stop being lazy and craft a totem structure to sacrifice to your idol in order to transform, Should be EASY to code into the game since in my head I picture Carrat Shrine here...)
 

I just nerfed Woodie with my idea.. BUT I would buff his curse forms because of this new totem offer mechanic, allowing beaver form to swing his tail with a knock back attack, and to “slowly” swim through water picking up materials that Goose form can not. Moose form would still be the go to fighting formation.. 

But his Full Moon curse- I would allow Woodie to craft a jewelry item at his totem similar to the pig king crown lore... that prevents random transformations from happening.

Lastly- Willow.. the only things I would change about her is making the lighter refillable with nightmare fuel, the one source she’s actually good at gathering, and I would make it so she can force Bernie small again without having to leave him behind during stuff like- 

Running for her life.

Entering and Exiting caves.

 

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Slagger    1465

Maxwell is a harvester like Woodie. Yes, he is slightly better than Woodie but it's not enough for me. He must have different powers to make him more useful and interesting but I can't give a example :(

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Ohan    1549
4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

thus giving her an internal synergy with Walter's slingshot

Woby's synergy with walter is that he can use his slingshot while riding her in mega form. her speed makes it impossible for mobs to retaliate against walter. 

4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Can extinguish fires from a distance at a small cost of sanity

This would be really nice and would add to her fire fantasy in a meaningful way.  but overall i really like willows rework shes my go-to character when i join a public server because shes arguably the best at solo survival especially when you join in winter and basic resources around spawn are scarce. she can practically jump down the first sinkhole and never come out :D.

I also dont think klei can do anything about the kind of griefing that ppl can choose to do in DST, vote to kick and reroll if something really bad happened. 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I would make it so she can force Bernie small again

Ive seen this mentioned a couple of times on the forums which i find weird because u can already do that by raising your sanity. mega bernie isnt enabled by an on/off switch its tied to ur sanity. i think itd be really weird if u could just turn off mega bernie by say right clicking him while being insane.  her lighter being refuelable with nightmare fuel would indeed be nice. maybe she could upgrade it as well to have a bigger light radius 1 red gem and some NM fuel maybe 

-----

when it comes to Wormwood i agree with the points you made. hes one of my top favorite characters but he could use some minor tweaks

  • Id like to see compost wrap turned into a knockoff jellybean, so a bigger heal but its over time. Wormwood would then have an alternative to sleeping since emergency burst healing is already covered by honey poultice/salves. 
  • a nice QoL change for Wormwood's farming would be that he can pick his wild crops really fast so he wouldnt need to go through that long harvesting animation. 
  • A way to prolong the blooming or force it to happen with something like bucket of poop would also be really nice. its a shame its only active for such a short period of time.
  • I agree Bramble vest is counter intuitive for Wormwood. though it is nice against large numbers of small creatures like bees, baby tentacles and frogs. i also like the defense it gives against pokey plants like cacti and spiky bush. but i wouldnt mind some tweaks to it to make it a bit better. maybe it could regain durability over time when not in use

 

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KeshS    4276
Spoiler
2 hours ago, Owlrus98 said:

I find Woodie's Weremoose form very underwhelming in circumstances where it would almost be better to use a normal armor/weapon; not to mention his charge ability is outclassed by Abigail in many aspects. I wish that, upon using the weremoose totem, Woodie gain 150 temporary health (that is lost upon reverting back to normal and does not refill his health in any way) to both encourage use of the totem and to help with tanking without need of things like Jellybeans to be viable. Furthermore, I personally feel as though totems should have a longer spoilage as it would be far more convenient than to go out of your way to farm more monster meat on top of planning days ahead when you may not even use them.

 

I think weremoose is in a good spot. He isn't a tank, but a great bruiser (having good qualities of defense and offense). If he was a true tank he would take much more damage from mobs but also deal much less damage as well. Woodie crowd control (CC) isn't bad either. He stands as another option for clearing waves of spiders and frogs if Wendy isn't in game. Abigail has trouble dealing with high damage/high hp mobs, while Weremoose has the option to kite.

I would say Werebeaver is underwhelming more, because it just exists and there is no real advantage to this form, other than chopping stumps without needing a shovel.

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Notecja    1028

I totally agree about Webber and Wurt. Specially on Wurt. Is a shame, that a character you must extra pay (spools, money) is a big mess, right now most of foods for her are very limited and if her merm city is left alone became most dangerous place for most players. Furthermore if player is not dedicated for playing with her, then "merm-city" must be separated from main base, or destroyed after changing character. I wish craftsman merms could have a little of AI allowing to care for king (like picking berries to feed king - which allow him to survive longer) or king could himself survive a much longer or had bigger stomach.. Also I dont understand water mechanic on Wurt. Is she losing sanity from being wet????

Webber on other hand feels a bit.... plain. He can craft some eggs, befriend spiders... He could do a bit more, since he had problem with befriending everything else and even catoons hate him.

Ah, Woodie, sometimes I wish the full moon would be a real problem... it just happens every twenty days for one day. Is just... rare, preparation is easy and usually is not a big chance to turn back into Woodie in the middle of the night without anything to survive. But the most important thing I totally need for him is... maple syrup.

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ArubaroBeefalo    6059
1 minute ago, Notecja said:

I totally agree about Webber and Wurt. Specially on Wurt. Is a shame, that a character you must extra pay (spools, money) is a big mess, right now most of foods for her are very limited and if her merm city is left alone became most dangerous place for most players. Furthermore if player is not dedicated for playing with her, then "merm-city" must be separated from main base, or destroyed after changing character. I wish craftsman merms could have a little of AI allowing to care for king (like picking berries to feed king - which allow him to survive longer) or king could himself survive a much longer or had bigger stomach.. Also I dont understand water mechanic on Wurt. Is she losing sanity from being wet????

Webber on other hand feels a bit.... plain. He can craft some eggs, befriend spiders... He could do a bit more, since he had problem with befriending everything else and even catoons hate him.

Ah, Woodie, sometimes I wish the full moon would be a real problem... it just happens every twenty days for one day. Is just... rare, preparation is easy and usually is not a big chance to turn back into Woodie in the middle of the night without anything to survive. But the most important thing I totally need for him is... maple syrup.

Wurts king stomach last for many days so i dont see there the problem. What i see as a problem is how dumb are merms that doesnt protect a wurt from atackers when with other merms they engage, they doenst come back to home after days roaming, the boring farm system (was good for single player but here we have to grind more due of raid bosses) or the wet mechanic not being less punishing on her

I see willow perfect, one of the most fun and balanced characters with the adition of having an strong and no needed bodyward.

Wes, as mentioned dozens of times,  needs to be hard but also more fun that just wilson with problems

Maxwell is so strong but shadow duelist and workers could have some qol changes

Wendy, wortox and wigfrid are just easy mode turn on which is healthy for the game

Wx and wolfgang are so op that are boring 

Warly is perfect but, again, farms take so much time. When you reach a good amount of resources he is one of the best characters

Woodie. Have good few downsides and a lot of utility. No need to be changed

I love wilso as he is but could have some silly mad experiments

Walter isnt in a so bad spot. Sligshot isnt so worth but is free damage so idk

Weeber could be better

Winona. Boooooring. Just a wilson with cheese catapults

Wicked is op but for me is fine. She should have a real downside and more book recipes 

Wormwood is perfect. Maybe his recipes are a little expensive but not a big deal

 

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Viktor234    5244

grafik.thumb.png.2de5b13170126bd2f83f4fe5364a9d12.png

Warly got tons of penalties (He got nerfed hard when they moved him from DS to DST), no personal abilities and OP shareable abilities, making him the best Pick-and-Swap character ingame. Klei didn't design him as a cook who relies on his dishes, but as an enchanter instead.
Wurt's idea feels nice but her design feels disappointing, cheap houses which do cause troubles to other players and a king who rewards you for killing him. Is scared of water despite enjoying swimming, the swamp, etc.
Wendy is just OP: Kills any kind of weak mob with no effort at all, her penalty is negated by Abigail and the Super-Healing-Shampoo.
Wortox is also OP: 20-100 healing per soul, making hound waves or boss fights piece of cake.
Woodie completly lost his need of logs after his update.
Walter is annoying to play as: Low stats, one single hit can drain all of your sanity, a slingshot with Whirly Fan dps at the cost of Gold Nuggets. His Woby and Portable Tent ain't such bad abilities but despite that I don't think it's worth picking him.
Winona has a nice idea and design, but she feels bit unfinished, especially since other can use her gadgets just as good as she can. She appears to loose her abilities as soon as she places her catapults.
Wormwood might be in a good spot right now but his fertilizing feels disappointing and he appears to lack lategame abilities, since all of them can be replaced.
From my point of view, Willow is the best character update we got so far: Her abilities are neither too weak nor too strong and you can't just afk if you want to use them properly. Her abilities might be hard to use and she's often abused as a griefer character, but she becomes better if played the right way.

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ArubaroBeefalo    6059
24 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

why?

Because she has the best desing and balance? 

No real downside outside of winter which isnt a big deal and less taking in count that she has a lighter and a bear that gives warm. Only having low sanity stat can be count as downside in boss fights but at the same time this means she can control easily being sane and insane

Has a unique follower with interesting mechanic that isnt as op as wendy so for me is better desing that wendy

Her fire afinity is well implemented. Gain sanity with fire, so you can make sanity station where you please

 can stop wildfires and can use fire in a offensive and deffensive way without worring about being hurt, in that way she can add dps burning enemies and can be "shielded" by fire burning a tree and atacking from inside of the fire, useful against hounds that cant atack you from outside of the fire

Also has more heat resistance so the most annoying season is easier as her

 

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Theukon-dos    2832
37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Because she has the best desing and balance? 

What?

37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

No real downside outside of winter which isnt a big deal and less taking in count that she has a lighter and a bear that gives warm. Only having low sanity stat can be count as downside in boss fights but at the same time this means she can control easily being sane and insane

You claim she has the best design and balance, but then immidetly contradict yourself by saying "no real downside outside of winter" asthough that's either good design or good balance

37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Has a unique follower with interesting mechanic that isnt as op as wendy so for me is better desing that wendy

Sure, Bernie's useful, but willow's title is The Firestarter not The Bear Hugger. She's not supposed to be a summoner character, yet Klei forsook her entire personality for the bear

37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Her fire afinity is well implemented. Gain sanity with fire, so you can make sanity station where you please

She's not just fond of fire though, she's a literal Pyromaniac. 

37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 can stop wildfires and can use fire in a offensive and deffensive way without worring about being hurt, in that way she can add dps burning enemies and can be "shielded" by fire burning a tree and atacking from inside of the fire, useful against hounds that cant atack you from outside of the fire

See, this should be the normal for her character. yet it took the entire forums rioting just to get her the fire immunity she had in DS. She can't use fire for DPS really though, as she then risks burning the drops into ashes. 

37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Also has more heat resistance so the most annoying season is easier as her

 

Again, this should be the standard for her character, but instead they decided to make her a summoner and give her Bernie!

 

Her fire affinity traits feel more like Obligation than Klei actually wanting to give her some of that fire aspect.

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6 hours ago, Owlrus98 said:

I find Woodie's Weremoose form very underwhelming in circumstances where it would almost be better to use a normal armor/weapon

I honestly find weremoose fine given the rest of Woodie's kit. Yes, Abigail can most likely take on hoards *faster* than moose, though in most cases moose will be able to take on the same hoards just fine. The biggest perk Abigail has is that she's basically free. If moose were Woodie's only form, then I would consider it to be a little underpowered. But Woodie has this along with goose, probably Woodie's best form, and beaver, Woodie's harvester form that, like most other harvester perks, is outclassed once you have a bearger. However, I think the most impactful part of Woodie's gameplay is the fact that he has lucy and lumberjacking skill. Before the rework, Woodie couldn't ever even consider taking on toadstool solo without preparing a mountain of wood because of the atrocious log meter constantly ticking down and resulting in you transforming into a defenseless AND offenseless beaver mid-fight. Now Woodie can fight it head on and is considered the go-to character for taking down the giant frog. And the quicker swings are also nice in the early game in getting logs for science and other things faster.

 

Though back to moose, he is a bit inefficient in direct, one on one combat if you have the materials to make a weapon that will outclass his dps (basically a fresh hambat due to swing speed). Should his effectiveness in 1v1 combat be changed? I don't know... He seems like he has enough perks to have this form justified to not be quite as dependable 1v1 and as a runner up to Abigail. It's kinda like Woodie is to Wendy in the hoard business as Wigfrid is to Wolfgang in direct combat (though Wolfgang still makes out with a lot more combat specific perks while wendy ONLY has Abigail and her damage boost).

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Viktor234    5244
1 minute ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

is considered the go-to character for taking down the giant frog

Wigfrid or Wolfgang still do a better job against Toadstool than Woodie.

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4 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Wigfrid or Wolfgang still do a better job against Toadstool than Woodie.

 

I found one speedrun where Wolfgang managed day 9 spring start. Couldn't find anything for wigfrid.

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gaymime    4151
20 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Best I can do is day 5 or 6

please do a speed run ^^ there are loads of free/cheap video capture programs(personally i really like obs as it can run on fairly garbage machines and a lot of people use it)

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SinancoTheBest    2606

Hmm, you ave some really good points and I loved the lyrics to that improvised song but I don't necesarily agree with some of the points, especially regarding Willow. Personally I find all the reworked or newly added characters in a good spot. I believe reworks also have the mentality of making less used characters more utilized, which was especially more apparent in Winona's, Willow's and Woodie's reworks at the time. Both of the objectives of rework in mind (Balancing and Popularization) here's my listing:

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Wilson: The supposed starting character yet he has nothing going for him outside of his beard. Characters like pre-rework Winona are constantly compared to him yet the he is the plain character with nothing going on. It's not a bad thing to be plain but this game's direction is going for more unique abilities for all characters and it'll be a shame if he's left out, especially when characters like Willow and Woodie have become much better all-round survivalist characters. Despite this he's still a popularly picked character, owing this likely to him being the posterboy of Dont Starve.

Wes: His challenge aspect and stats are fine where they stand, amusing even but he offers nothing unique to others. I had written extensive suggestions for new additions for him to turn him more of a support-mounted character, having mostly to do with the addition of his balloon tab so that he can become more than just a character with low stats. He especially needs the rework as he's very rarely played and some hosts have the mentality of kicking or banning Wes players.

WX-78: A powerful yet rarely played character with almost no unique characteristics and a negligable downside. His downsides should be tuned up and his mechanics should be reworked from ground up.

Wolfgang: Another powerful yet rarely played character. If he is said to be better at what Wigfird does and she is picked almost 95% of the time over him, then there is really something wrong and lacking about his character. Needs reworking to become interesting to be played as.

Webber: Amongst the most played characters, his arsenal is outclassed and unappreciated. He could really use an expansion akin to how Wurt expands the Mermfolk, with mechanics involving other spider types, Lunar and Cave spiders, riding spider queens and all the interesting stuff that they can give to him.

Maxwell: A strong resource gatherer with moderately large playerbase. An expansion to his codex umbra tab and a rework to his shadow duelists is what needs prioritization.

Wickerbottom: As told by others, her popularity and claim to queendom comes in her two books. She needs an expansion and tweaking to his library, alongside reworks to her downsides to be more balanced.

Winona: Often said to be a pick & change character but she is at least somewhat unique now and her tape replacing sewing kits and boat patches, alongside her unique fast crafting-hunger mechanic sets her apart in my opinion. It is now easy to see encounter her in servers which means that her rework was mostly successful in that regard. She could still use more abilities to be desirable to those with the aformentioned change mentality; through making her tape repair burned buildings, giving her spotlights more engaging mechanics and perhaps more expansion into batteries (like single device powering potato battery that'd use potato's spoilage time) etc.

Wendy: Almost too powerful now, the rework to this already immensely popular character was welcomed and made Abigail more omnipresent in her playstyle, while also giving graves a purpose after being dug, which is nice. I'd still like if her overly powerful strength was adressed, particularly I'd have liked if they made Abigail's mechanics a combination of the daytime and the Health mechanics they first introduced and later scrapped in the first form of the update.Aa 3x3 grid where Abigail would do least damage when it's day AND Wendy is full HP while she'd do most when it's night AND Wendy is in brink of death would have been a better mechanic and make her ectoherbology more used while also requiring risks for more rewards.

Wormwood: Effective downside for his unique abilities; it's just that he could use more crafts, his blooming could be more pronounced. and his poop craft needs buffing. Overal a solid character.

Wurt: It's being told that merms bring nothing to the table but I think she does a perfect job for a DLC character, greatly expanding upon a forgotten mob while not being necessary at the same time. Her vegetarian diet is fine but could really use some new recipes as she is being left out- I don't know why Leafy Meat recipes can't be the shared territory between her and wigfrid. And as said, Merms should be more attentive when employed, attacking your attackers. She could also use a tweaking where she can spot tentacles on winter aswell.

Wortox: Very powerful warlock addition with somewhat meaningful downsides through having the easiest time with HP and Support while struggling with Hunger and Sanity. He himself is the better "always hungry" character than Wolfgang. Perhaps his soul heling distribution can be nerfed a little bit for how strong it often is but he is a good addition to the team.

Willow: I too would have liked a little more pronounced pyromancy but she is perfectly fine where she is. Her rework made her the ultimate survivalist, outclassing Wilson at everything. She is now often played and her view as the Griefer character is diminsihing. She still has meaningful fire quirks through her immunity, effective firestarting and resistance to overheating. She doesn't have meaningful downsides but it doesn't hurt her character as she doesn't bring anything unbalanced to the table; if antyhing she's the ultimate vanilla character excelling at surviving herself.

Warly: His very different playstyle is a perfect touch alongside his kitchen skills and buffs. He's a very versatile and unique character despite being very limiting at certain aspects, very good character design in my opinion.

Wigfrid: She's OP in a much more balanced way than Wolfgang through her carnivore limitations and she brings a lot to the team through her unique crafts. She is a well designed character, whose rework should only expand on what she already adds to the world.

Woodie: While some disagree that his perks and downsides are anything meaningful, he is unique character with unique abilities in his own right with his transformations being strong and his starvation mechanic after transformation the only meaningful downside to him. His rework made a fine job making him played again in servers whereas he was forgotten behind Maxwell previously.

Walter: I placed him here because I didn't have the chance to play him much yet to judge his abilities and what he brings but I appreciated the Health-sanity nechanic and lied his slingshot, with especially how easy the core bullets of Gold, Marble and Poop are to amass. He appears to be good at the ranged support character that doesn't like getting hit himself but he also has many perks that aren't really necessary for him like fast cooking. Overall will have to play him more to see if he could use some tweaking in some certain aspects of his playstyle.

 

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gaymime    4151
1 minute ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Wes: His challenge aspect and stats are fine where they stand, amusing even but he offers nothing unique to others. I had written extensive suggestions for new additions for him to turn him more of a support-mounted character, having mostly to do with the addition of his balloon tab so that he can become more than just a character with low stats. He especially needs the rework as he's very rarely played and some hosts have the mentality of kicking or banning Wes players.

not trying to pick a fight or anything but i have seen more wes players than i have woodies, maxwells and wurts combined(or more honestly 3 wes to 1 maxwell. none for wood an' wurt)

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Viktor234    5244
1 minute ago, gaymime said:

not trying to pick a fight or anything but i have seen more wes players than i have woodies, maxwells and wurts combined(or more honestly 3 wes to 1 maxwell. none for wood an' wurt)

You might rather want to ask @CarlZalph about how popular characters are rn.

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ArubaroBeefalo    6059
1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

What?

You claim she has the best design and balance, but then immidetly contradict yourself by saying "no real downside outside of winter" asthough that's either good design or good balance

Sure, Bernie's useful, but willow's title is The Firestarter not The Bear Hugger. She's not supposed to be a summoner character, yet Klei forsook her entire personality for the bear

She's not just fond of fire though, she's a literal Pyromaniac. 

See, this should be the normal for her character. yet it took the entire forums rioting just to get her the fire immunity she had in DS. She can't use fire for DPS really though, as she then risks burning the drops into ashes. 

Again, this should be the standard for her character, but instead they decided to make her a summoner and give her Bernie!

 

Her fire affinity traits feel more like Obligation than Klei actually wanting to give her some of that fire aspect.

her downside isnt strong if you are carefully, the same with her positive perks. This is a survival, not a rpg, so being firestarted means she is pyromaniac not a fire mage lvl 45. About burning loot... dude, just be careful

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SinancoTheBest    2606
2 minutes ago, gaymime said:

not trying to pick a fight or anything but i have seen more wes players than i have woodies, maxwells and wurts combined(or more honestly 3 wes to 1 maxwell. none for wood an' wurt)

Interesting. How much characters are played is really a curious topic that is subjective for different people through observation. I wish Klei released some actual stats on it or someone did a research on it. In my personal experience, there's a Webber, Wigfrid and Wendy in every server, Willow, Wickerbottom and Maxwel are played very often, Wes, Wolfgang and WX-78 are almost never played and and the other characters are somewhat prevalent. 

I think I'll start a tally from now on listing all the survivors I encounter to be more quantifiable about it cause honestly there is no weight between "this character is always/never played" claims without any actual statistic.

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gaymime    4151
10 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

You might rather want to ask @CarlZalph about how popular characters are rn.

it isn't about popularity though, i am telling you literal facts about what i have personally seen and what i have seen is he is more used than some of the other characters listed but he is getting grief for being too unpopular to be used. while we are at it though i have also seen two wolfgangs and zero wortoxs

5 minutes ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Interesting. How much characters are played is really a curious topic that is subjective for different people through observation. I wish Klei released some actual stats on it or someone did a research on it. In my personal experience, there's a Webber, Wigfrid and Wendy in every server, Willow, Wickerbottom and Maxwel are played very often, Wes, Wolfgang and WX-78 are almost never played and and the other characters are somewhat prevalent. 

I think I'll start a tally from now on listing all the survivors I encounter to be more quantifiable about it cause honestly there is no weight between "this character is always/never played" claims without any actual statistic.

i think the bias comes with all the uses getting lumped together. what i have seen on social servers is a fair bit different from what i have heard from people on here is the norm. i would certainly believe it if someone said character picks and playstyle types matched up at least a little especially given that i have kept a count of the non-wendys i have seen and the numbers are off

 

of course that being said willow, wilson and wendy are everywhere. they are the twinkies of don't starve XD

ok, so my results are a wee bit off because i am counting myself and my husband and there has been multiple instances of griefer willows and wilsons that were in the server at the time that i did not personally see(some of the servers were populated and other people saw them instead). i am also not counting skeletons with identifiable kit

 

 Wilson: 3

Wes: 4(i am one)

WX-78: 0

Wolfgang: 3(hub is one)

Webber: 1

Maxwell: 1

Wickerbottom: 1(possibly 2 i actually cannot remember if they were the same person)

Winona: 1/2(griefer ghost)

Wendy: 10+

Wormwood: 0

Wurt: 0

Wortox: 0

Willow: 2

Warly: 0

Wigfrid: 4

Woodie: 0

Walter: (not counting walter week) 3

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