Theukon-dos

Ranking characters on how much they need a re-work and explaining why.

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Owlrus    3570

I find Woodie's Weremoose form very underwhelming in circumstances where it would almost be better to use a normal armor/weapon; not to mention his charge ability is outclassed by Abigail in many aspects. I wish that, upon using the weremoose totem, Woodie gain 150 temporary health (that is lost upon reverting back to normal and does not refill his health in any way) to both encourage use of the totem and to help with tanking without need of things like Jellybeans to be viable. Furthermore, I personally feel as though totems should have a longer spoilage as it would be far more convenient than to go out of your way to farm more monster meat on top of planning days ahead when you may not even use them.

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Mike23Ua    7089

There will always be people who disagree with the direction Klei is taking the game in, I may find a character rework that I DONT Like (so far I’ve loved all of them but they can’t perfectly hit the mark on everyone and satisfy the entire forum community)

Thing is though- I know that Klei does the best they can to hit a General “ball park” area of what the majority of players want to see.

Im just going to say it- I hate Current Wes.. hate him hate hate hate him, in single player he was perfectly fine- But as I’ve stated time and time again.. in Multiplayer a “Challenge” character is made less of a challenge when he has other people’s abilities helping him survive better.

Wendy for free infinite sanity & Bestowment damage buff, Wortox for heals for days, Wormwood/Wickerbottom for food anywhere at anytime, Wigfrid for Armor and Weapons, Woodie for faster harvesting of Wood that completely saves tool durability, Wolfgang to literally Superman punch something to death with his absurd strengths..

The TL:DR- In DST Wes’s challenges only make him a hinderance to a team rather than actually being helpful..

And Klei could change that- Maybe the “Joke” Balloon Battle Mech he had could be 120% useless to Wes.... but if any non-Wes player uses it, it would pack quite a punch.. 

As far as characters who have ALREADY been Reworked I would only like to see Minor Tweaks at best..

Using Winona, Woodie and Willow as my examples-

Winona’s duct tape should repair basic tool durability (basic tool meaning spear, axe, Pickaxe.. none of that OP Darksword stuff..) and Burned structures for a take on the saying “Plumbers Tape fixes everything”

Her Spotlight should scare away bats- A huge problem on Xbox console servers where cave holes are plentiful and everywhere.

Woodie- Wendy and Winona both have unique craftable structures in the form of Machines & Sisturn.. Woodie only has a few eatable totems.. Meh- I want a Totem similar to the Pig Torch Totems, Something that I can go to and offer my Idol to to Trigger my Transformation.

(Yes Woodie players.. this means you’ll have to stop being lazy and craft a totem structure to sacrifice to your idol in order to transform, Should be EASY to code into the game since in my head I picture Carrat Shrine here...)
 

I just nerfed Woodie with my idea.. BUT I would buff his curse forms because of this new totem offer mechanic, allowing beaver form to swing his tail with a knock back attack, and to “slowly” swim through water picking up materials that Goose form can not. Moose form would still be the go to fighting formation.. 

But his Full Moon curse- I would allow Woodie to craft a jewelry item at his totem similar to the pig king crown lore... that prevents random transformations from happening.

Lastly- Willow.. the only things I would change about her is making the lighter refillable with nightmare fuel, the one source she’s actually good at gathering, and I would make it so she can force Bernie small again without having to leave him behind during stuff like- 

Running for her life.

Entering and Exiting caves.

 

Edited by Mike23Ua
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Slagger    902

Maxwell is a harvester like Woodie. Yes, he is slightly better than Woodie but it's not enough for me. He must have different powers to make him more useful and interesting but I can't give a example :(

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Ohan    752
4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

thus giving her an internal synergy with Walter's slingshot

Woby's synergy with walter is that he can use his slingshot while riding her in mega form. her speed makes it impossible for mobs to retaliate against walter. 

4 hours ago, Theukon-dos said:

Can extinguish fires from a distance at a small cost of sanity

This would be really nice and would add to her fire fantasy in a meaningful way.  but overall i really like willows rework shes my go-to character when i join a public server because shes arguably the best at solo survival especially when you join in winter and basic resources around spawn are scarce. she can practically jump down the first sinkhole and never come out :D.

I also dont think klei can do anything about the kind of griefing that ppl can choose to do in DST, vote to kick and reroll if something really bad happened. 

2 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

I would make it so she can force Bernie small again

Ive seen this mentioned a couple of times on the forums which i find weird because u can already do that by raising your sanity. mega bernie isnt enabled by an on/off switch its tied to ur sanity. i think itd be really weird if u could just turn off mega bernie by say right clicking him while being insane.  her lighter being refuelable with nightmare fuel would indeed be nice. maybe she could upgrade it as well to have a bigger light radius 1 red gem and some NM fuel maybe 

-----

when it comes to Wormwood i agree with the points you made. hes one of my top favorite characters but he could use some minor tweaks

  • Id like to see compost wrap turned into a knockoff jellybean, so a bigger heal but its over time. Wormwood would then have an alternative to sleeping since emergency burst healing is already covered by honey poultice/salves. 
  • a nice QoL change for Wormwood's farming would be that he can pick his wild crops really fast so he wouldnt need to go through that long harvesting animation. 
  • A way to prolong the blooming or force it to happen with something like bucket of poop would also be really nice. its a shame its only active for such a short period of time.
  • I agree Bramble vest is counter intuitive for Wormwood. though it is nice against large numbers of small creatures like bees, baby tentacles and frogs. i also like the defense it gives against pokey plants like cacti and spiky bush. but i wouldnt mind some tweaks to it to make it a bit better. maybe it could regain durability over time when not in use

 

Edited by Ohan
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KeshS    3604
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2 hours ago, Owlrus98 said:

I find Woodie's Weremoose form very underwhelming in circumstances where it would almost be better to use a normal armor/weapon; not to mention his charge ability is outclassed by Abigail in many aspects. I wish that, upon using the weremoose totem, Woodie gain 150 temporary health (that is lost upon reverting back to normal and does not refill his health in any way) to both encourage use of the totem and to help with tanking without need of things like Jellybeans to be viable. Furthermore, I personally feel as though totems should have a longer spoilage as it would be far more convenient than to go out of your way to farm more monster meat on top of planning days ahead when you may not even use them.

 

I think weremoose is in a good spot. He isn't a tank, but a great bruiser (having good qualities of defense and offense). If he was a true tank he would take much more damage from mobs but also deal much less damage as well. Woodie crowd control (CC) isn't bad either. He stands as another option for clearing waves of spiders and frogs if Wendy isn't in game. Abigail has trouble dealing with high damage/high hp mobs, while Weremoose has the option to kite.

I would say Werebeaver is underwhelming more, because it just exists and there is no real advantage to this form, other than chopping stumps without needing a shovel.

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Notecja    710

I totally agree about Webber and Wurt. Specially on Wurt. Is a shame, that a character you must extra pay (spools, money) is a big mess, right now most of foods for her are very limited and if her merm city is left alone became most dangerous place for most players. Furthermore if player is not dedicated for playing with her, then "merm-city" must be separated from main base, or destroyed after changing character. I wish craftsman merms could have a little of AI allowing to care for king (like picking berries to feed king - which allow him to survive longer) or king could himself survive a much longer or had bigger stomach.. Also I dont understand water mechanic on Wurt. Is she losing sanity from being wet????

Webber on other hand feels a bit.... plain. He can craft some eggs, befriend spiders... He could do a bit more, since he had problem with befriending everything else and even catoons hate him.

Ah, Woodie, sometimes I wish the full moon would be a real problem... it just happens every twenty days for one day. Is just... rare, preparation is easy and usually is not a big chance to turn back into Woodie in the middle of the night without anything to survive. But the most important thing I totally need for him is... maple syrup.

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ArubaroBeefalo    4153
1 minute ago, Notecja said:

I totally agree about Webber and Wurt. Specially on Wurt. Is a shame, that a character you must extra pay (spools, money) is a big mess, right now most of foods for her are very limited and if her merm city is left alone became most dangerous place for most players. Furthermore if player is not dedicated for playing with her, then "merm-city" must be separated from main base, or destroyed after changing character. I wish craftsman merms could have a little of AI allowing to care for king (like picking berries to feed king - which allow him to survive longer) or king could himself survive a much longer or had bigger stomach.. Also I dont understand water mechanic on Wurt. Is she losing sanity from being wet????

Webber on other hand feels a bit.... plain. He can craft some eggs, befriend spiders... He could do a bit more, since he had problem with befriending everything else and even catoons hate him.

Ah, Woodie, sometimes I wish the full moon would be a real problem... it just happens every twenty days for one day. Is just... rare, preparation is easy and usually is not a big chance to turn back into Woodie in the middle of the night without anything to survive. But the most important thing I totally need for him is... maple syrup.

Wurts king stomach last for many days so i dont see there the problem. What i see as a problem is how dumb are merms that doesnt protect a wurt from atackers when with other merms they engage, they doenst come back to home after days roaming, the boring farm system (was good for single player but here we have to grind more due of raid bosses) or the wet mechanic not being less punishing on her

I see willow perfect, one of the most fun and balanced characters with the adition of having an strong and no needed bodyward.

Wes, as mentioned dozens of times,  needs to be hard but also more fun that just wilson with problems

Maxwell is so strong but shadow duelist and workers could have some qol changes

Wendy, wortox and wigfrid are just easy mode turn on which is healthy for the game

Wx and wolfgang are so op that are boring 

Warly is perfect but, again, farms take so much time. When you reach a good amount of resources he is one of the best characters

Woodie. Have good few downsides and a lot of utility. No need to be changed

I love wilso as he is but could have some silly mad experiments

Walter isnt in a so bad spot. Sligshot isnt so worth but is free damage so idk

Weeber could be better

Winona. Boooooring. Just a wilson with cheese catapults

Wicked is op but for me is fine. She should have a real downside and more book recipes 

Wormwood is perfect. Maybe his recipes are a little expensive but not a big deal

 

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Viktor234    4814

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Warly got tons of penalties (He got nerfed hard when they moved him from DS to DST), no personal abilities and OP shareable abilities, making him the best Pick-and-Swap character ingame. Klei didn't design him as a cook who relies on his dishes, but as an enchanter instead.
Wurt's idea feels nice but her design feels disappointing, cheap houses which do cause troubles to other players and a king who rewards you for killing him. Is scared of water despite enjoying swimming, the swamp, etc.
Wendy is just OP: Kills any kind of weak mob with no effort at all, her penalty is negated by Abigail and the Super-Healing-Shampoo.
Wortox is also OP: 20-100 healing per soul, making hound waves or boss fights piece of cake.
Woodie completly lost his need of logs after his update.
Walter is annoying to play as: Low stats, one single hit can drain all of your sanity, a slingshot with Whirly Fan dps at the cost of Gold Nuggets. His Woby and Portable Tent ain't such bad abilities but despite that I don't think it's worth picking him.
Winona has a nice idea and design, but she feels bit unfinished, especially since other can use her gadgets just as good as she can. She appears to loose her abilities as soon as she places her catapults.
Wormwood might be in a good spot right now but his fertilizing feels disappointing and he appears to lack lategame abilities, since all of them can be replaced.
From my point of view, Willow is the best character update we got so far: Her abilities are neither too weak nor too strong and you can't just afk if you want to use them properly. Her abilities might be hard to use and she's often abused as a griefer character, but she becomes better if played the right way.

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ArubaroBeefalo    4153
24 minutes ago, Theukon-dos said:

why?

Because she has the best desing and balance? 

No real downside outside of winter which isnt a big deal and less taking in count that she has a lighter and a bear that gives warm. Only having low sanity stat can be count as downside in boss fights but at the same time this means she can control easily being sane and insane

Has a unique follower with interesting mechanic that isnt as op as wendy so for me is better desing that wendy

Her fire afinity is well implemented. Gain sanity with fire, so you can make sanity station where you please

 can stop wildfires and can use fire in a offensive and deffensive way without worring about being hurt, in that way she can add dps burning enemies and can be "shielded" by fire burning a tree and atacking from inside of the fire, useful against hounds that cant atack you from outside of the fire

Also has more heat resistance so the most annoying season is easier as her

 

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Theukon-dos    2808
37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Because she has the best desing and balance? 

What?

37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

No real downside outside of winter which isnt a big deal and less taking in count that she has a lighter and a bear that gives warm. Only having low sanity stat can be count as downside in boss fights but at the same time this means she can control easily being sane and insane

You claim she has the best design and balance, but then immidetly contradict yourself by saying "no real downside outside of winter" asthough that's either good design or good balance

37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Has a unique follower with interesting mechanic that isnt as op as wendy so for me is better desing that wendy

Sure, Bernie's useful, but willow's title is The Firestarter not The Bear Hugger. She's not supposed to be a summoner character, yet Klei forsook her entire personality for the bear

37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Her fire afinity is well implemented. Gain sanity with fire, so you can make sanity station where you please

She's not just fond of fire though, she's a literal Pyromaniac. 

37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

 can stop wildfires and can use fire in a offensive and deffensive way without worring about being hurt, in that way she can add dps burning enemies and can be "shielded" by fire burning a tree and atacking from inside of the fire, useful against hounds that cant atack you from outside of the fire

See, this should be the normal for her character. yet it took the entire forums rioting just to get her the fire immunity she had in DS. She can't use fire for DPS really though, as she then risks burning the drops into ashes. 

37 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

Also has more heat resistance so the most annoying season is easier as her

 

Again, this should be the standard for her character, but instead they decided to make her a summoner and give her Bernie!

 

Her fire affinity traits feel more like Obligation than Klei actually wanting to give her some of that fire aspect.

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6 hours ago, Owlrus98 said:

I find Woodie's Weremoose form very underwhelming in circumstances where it would almost be better to use a normal armor/weapon

I honestly find weremoose fine given the rest of Woodie's kit. Yes, Abigail can most likely take on hoards *faster* than moose, though in most cases moose will be able to take on the same hoards just fine. The biggest perk Abigail has is that she's basically free. If moose were Woodie's only form, then I would consider it to be a little underpowered. But Woodie has this along with goose, probably Woodie's best form, and beaver, Woodie's harvester form that, like most other harvester perks, is outclassed once you have a bearger. However, I think the most impactful part of Woodie's gameplay is the fact that he has lucy and lumberjacking skill. Before the rework, Woodie couldn't ever even consider taking on toadstool solo without preparing a mountain of wood because of the atrocious log meter constantly ticking down and resulting in you transforming into a defenseless AND offenseless beaver mid-fight. Now Woodie can fight it head on and is considered the go-to character for taking down the giant frog. And the quicker swings are also nice in the early game in getting logs for science and other things faster.

 

Though back to moose, he is a bit inefficient in direct, one on one combat if you have the materials to make a weapon that will outclass his dps (basically a fresh hambat due to swing speed). Should his effectiveness in 1v1 combat be changed? I don't know... He seems like he has enough perks to have this form justified to not be quite as dependable 1v1 and as a runner up to Abigail. It's kinda like Woodie is to Wendy in the hoard business as Wigfrid is to Wolfgang in direct combat (though Wolfgang still makes out with a lot more combat specific perks while wendy ONLY has Abigail and her damage boost).

Edited by WoodieMain45684
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Viktor234    4814
1 minute ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

is considered the go-to character for taking down the giant frog

Wigfrid or Wolfgang still do a better job against Toadstool than Woodie.

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4 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Wigfrid or Wolfgang still do a better job against Toadstool than Woodie.

 

I found one speedrun where Wolfgang managed day 9 spring start. Couldn't find anything for wigfrid.

Edited by WoodieMain45684

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gaymime    3099
20 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Best I can do is day 5 or 6

please do a speed run ^^ there are loads of free/cheap video capture programs(personally i really like obs as it can run on fairly garbage machines and a lot of people use it)

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gaymime    3099
1 minute ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Wes: His challenge aspect and stats are fine where they stand, amusing even but he offers nothing unique to others. I had written extensive suggestions for new additions for him to turn him more of a support-mounted character, having mostly to do with the addition of his balloon tab so that he can become more than just a character with low stats. He especially needs the rework as he's very rarely played and some hosts have the mentality of kicking or banning Wes players.

not trying to pick a fight or anything but i have seen more wes players than i have woodies, maxwells and wurts combined(or more honestly 3 wes to 1 maxwell. none for wood an' wurt)

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Viktor234    4814
1 minute ago, gaymime said:

not trying to pick a fight or anything but i have seen more wes players than i have woodies, maxwells and wurts combined(or more honestly 3 wes to 1 maxwell. none for wood an' wurt)

You might rather want to ask @CarlZalph about how popular characters are rn.

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ArubaroBeefalo    4153
1 hour ago, Theukon-dos said:

What?

You claim she has the best design and balance, but then immidetly contradict yourself by saying "no real downside outside of winter" asthough that's either good design or good balance

Sure, Bernie's useful, but willow's title is The Firestarter not The Bear Hugger. She's not supposed to be a summoner character, yet Klei forsook her entire personality for the bear

She's not just fond of fire though, she's a literal Pyromaniac. 

See, this should be the normal for her character. yet it took the entire forums rioting just to get her the fire immunity she had in DS. She can't use fire for DPS really though, as she then risks burning the drops into ashes. 

Again, this should be the standard for her character, but instead they decided to make her a summoner and give her Bernie!

 

Her fire affinity traits feel more like Obligation than Klei actually wanting to give her some of that fire aspect.

her downside isnt strong if you are carefully, the same with her positive perks. This is a survival, not a rpg, so being firestarted means she is pyromaniac not a fire mage lvl 45. About burning loot... dude, just be careful

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SinancoTheBest    2298
2 minutes ago, gaymime said:

not trying to pick a fight or anything but i have seen more wes players than i have woodies, maxwells and wurts combined(or more honestly 3 wes to 1 maxwell. none for wood an' wurt)

Interesting. How much characters are played is really a curious topic that is subjective for different people through observation. I wish Klei released some actual stats on it or someone did a research on it. In my personal experience, there's a Webber, Wigfrid and Wendy in every server, Willow, Wickerbottom and Maxwel are played very often, Wes, Wolfgang and WX-78 are almost never played and and the other characters are somewhat prevalent. 

I think I'll start a tally from now on listing all the survivors I encounter to be more quantifiable about it cause honestly there is no weight between "this character is always/never played" claims without any actual statistic.

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gaymime    3099
10 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

You might rather want to ask @CarlZalph about how popular characters are rn.

it isn't about popularity though, i am telling you literal facts about what i have personally seen and what i have seen is he is more used than some of the other characters listed but he is getting grief for being too unpopular to be used. while we are at it though i have also seen two wolfgangs and zero wortoxs

5 minutes ago, SinancoTheBest said:

Interesting. How much characters are played is really a curious topic that is subjective for different people through observation. I wish Klei released some actual stats on it or someone did a research on it. In my personal experience, there's a Webber, Wigfrid and Wendy in every server, Willow, Wickerbottom and Maxwel are played very often, Wes, Wolfgang and WX-78 are almost never played and and the other characters are somewhat prevalent. 

I think I'll start a tally from now on listing all the survivors I encounter to be more quantifiable about it cause honestly there is no weight between "this character is always/never played" claims without any actual statistic.

i think the bias comes with all the uses getting lumped together. what i have seen on social servers is a fair bit different from what i have heard from people on here is the norm. i would certainly believe it if someone said character picks and playstyle types matched up at least a little especially given that i have kept a count of the non-wendys i have seen and the numbers are off

 

of course that being said willow, wilson and wendy are everywhere. they are the twinkies of don't starve XD

ok, so my results are a wee bit off because i am counting myself and my husband and there has been multiple instances of griefer willows and wilsons that were in the server at the time that i did not personally see(some of the servers were populated and other people saw them instead). i am also not counting skeletons with identifiable kit

 

 Wilson: 3

Wes: 4(i am one)

WX-78: 0

Wolfgang: 3(hub is one)

Webber: 1

Maxwell: 1

Wickerbottom: 1(possibly 2 i actually cannot remember if they were the same person)

Winona: 1/2(griefer ghost)

Wendy: 10+

Wormwood: 0

Wurt: 0

Wortox: 0

Willow: 2

Warly: 0

Wigfrid: 4

Woodie: 0

Walter: (not counting walter week) 3

Edited by gaymime
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