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Cipupec2

how to manage Atmo suits?

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Cipupec2    47

Is there any trick to manage atmo suits in bases with more than one exit?

 

I have 20 dupes and two exists from the base with 10 docks each (its not practical for me to build 20 atmo docks at each side), over time I get a pile of suits at one of the docks and growing number of idles and have to go through micro hell of requesting delivery to the other side for each dock..

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JoeyMeIs    5

The atmo suit checkpoint has a setting for that. Put it on vacancy only.

 

"Atmo Suit Checkpoint has a Clearance setting. When a Duplicants wearing an Atmo Suit returns, there may be no empty Atmo Suit Dock to store the used Atmo Suit. In this case, setting the clearance to Always Permitted will allow the Duplicant to pass. The Atmo Suit will be placed on the floor. Setting the clearance to Vacancy will prohibit the Duplicant to pass. This setting is helpful when you have multiple Atmo Suit Checkpoint exits."

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impyre    104

Also, in case it wasn't clear... "Always Permitted" is the default. If you select vacancy only, just make sure that you ensure that all docks have suits first, and *do NOT* replace suits manually at any point. If you did, you'd have more suits than docks, and a duplicant would be stranded outside the base. It's an easy fix unless you don't realize it's happened.

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OxCD    734
1 hour ago, impyre said:

If you select vacancy only, just make sure that you ensure that all docks have suits

May I correct ?

"If you select vacancy only, just make sure that you ensure that all suits have docks"

I even advise you to have half more docks than you have suits. Just add empty docks. That should avoid dups looking for empty docks for too long.

That way, no suit should be left on the ground.

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Cipupec2    47
10 minutes ago, OxCD said:

I even advise you to have half more docks than you have suits.

That what I did with smaller bases, but with 20 dupes this isn't economical and hurts pathing (at least in my setup)

Edit: I just realized that I can do a double deck entrance with vacancy only

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impyre    104

It's certainly better to have more docks than suits as opposed to more suits than docks. If you did build more docks than suits, and have multiple exits... it's very likely that you'll have empty docks elsewhere (depending on how many empty docks, it could be an issue where yet again you need to manually move suits around). As long as it's one-to-one, there's never a chance of a dupe not being able to return to base, and you minimize the chances of suits piling up at a specific entry point. This also allows you to set up entry points that only use one or two docks for areas that are relatively low traffic without having to worry about them not having any suits (because they got put away elsewhere)

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Lifegrow    1710
4 hours ago, JoeyMeIs said:

The atmo suit checkpoint has a setting for that. Put it on vacancy only.

This doesn't actually fix the issue.

It's an old bug where if you have two dupes return to base at exactly the same time, they'll both see an empty dock available - one can fill it, the other can't. This has been around for ages, and most commonly occurs if you have multiple exits/entrances to your base with multiple docking areas. Large dupe colonies will see this occur more frequently as well of course.

The easiest solution is to only have one bank of docks, or alternatively use pneumatic doors to control flow (i.e. named dupes for both access points).

Sucks, but it's true. Additional empty docks would help for a short time, but eventually once one bank became full the same issue could occur.

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Steve8    158

He isn't experiencing a bug yet though. The standard setting is that they can always use a checkpoint even if there is no free spot. That immediately fails, possibly even if you have only one dupe outside.

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Lifegrow    1710
42 minutes ago, Steve8 said:

He isn't experiencing a bug yet though. The standard setting is that they can always use a checkpoint even if there is no free spot. That immediately fails, possibly even if you have only one dupe outside.

I'm simply stating that there'll be dropped suits regardless, the idea that "vacancy only" fixes it is just plain wrong.

It's an issue that wasn't resolved when the errand system was overhauled and has been around ever since atmo suits were first introduced.

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mathmanican    3329
3 hours ago, Lifegrow said:

The easiest solution is to only have one bank of docks

This has been my solution as well. 

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Gurgel    1906
3 hours ago, mathmanican said:

This has been my solution as well. 

Same here. Any kind of compact base design should support a single-exit design nicely.

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OxCD    734

And any big design can handle multiple enter/exit.

I'm above cycle 2000, I've more than 40 dups, probably 40 or 50 suits, around 60 or 70 docks dispatched in 4 entries/exits (4 checkpoints), and dup can freely travel from one side to the other (outside my base is just a big open space with travel ways, ladders, poles, and a lot of tubes).

I've no issue so far, and I didn't have any in my previous save last year neither (same global architecture used). I've always some docks available, so dups never have to move to another checkpoint, and even if he has to, just a straight tube makes it quick.

I've no idea which issue you're talking about.

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0xFADE    547

It is really weird that vacancy only isn't the default selection.  I don't see any real reason the other one is both needed and default.

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beowulf2010    660
1 hour ago, 0xFADE said:

It is really weird that vacancy only isn't the default selection.  I don't see any real reason the other one is both needed and default.

Couldn't agree more. 

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impyre    104

@0xFADE The reason is that there are two ways things can go wrong (bugs/glitches aside) with docks:

1) No suits available for entry into a space which requires a suit. Could be due to high temps, atmosphere, etc.

2) No place to store worn suit as a dupe leaves such a space.

If it's problem #1, all that means is it takes a bit longer for tasks to get done. The dupe must either wait for someone else to bring a suit back, or go do something else.

If it's problem #2, a dupe could starve or suffocate (with suffocation clearly posing the greater risk).

Nothing can be done to alleviate problem #1, no suits means no suits... but problem #2 goes away if the entry point is set to "always permit". Sure, you may have some suits tossed on the ground, but the dupe will survive.

From a dev standpoint, you generally want to assume your users are not very bright (even if it's categorically untrue lol)... this mitigates the impact of "stupid moments" that we all have sometimes. Thus, if a player just builds a entry point and some docks, throws some atmo suits at it, and goes on to something else... with the current default setting they won't regret it or have to revisit it unless they build a second point... and even then, this is only true if the two points are connected to the *same* external area (since that's the only time that dupes can possibly return the suit to a different entry point). If each access point is the only point of entry to a specific area, none of these suit issues arise.

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