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Kittens

Dominance is underwhelming

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Kittens    2

Dominance seems very underwhelming. I'm totally on board with how Dominance works, but looking at cards that give stacks, Dominance seems balanced around being a lot better than it actually is. Cards often give a single stack of Dominance, which means it will only add one or two damage before you lose it immediately. Or if they do grant more stacks, they come with downsides like vulnerability. It feels like many cards that grant a single stack of Dominance should grant two stacks, because a single stack of Dominance is pretty much useless.

Compare Dominance to Influence. At the bare minimum, having one stack of influence will ensure that my basic 1-3 damage diplomacy cards deal 3 instead of 2 damage on average. That's very similar to Dominance's 1 damage upgrade. Except Influence stacks don't go away, so I keep this benefit for the entire negotiation, and this is the worst case scenario, having no other cards that use Influence. Many cards do powerful things with Influence, and it's easy to accumulate stacks because they don't go away.

Maybe I'm missing something, I don't know. I'm 35 hours in and the math has never come out in favor of Dominance.

TL;DR: Make getting Dominance stacks easier, many cards should grant one more stack than they currently do

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pacovf    915

The thing you might be missing is that you can play multiple cards per turn that grant Dominance. Sal also always starts with a card that grants two dominance (Sal’a instincts, upgraded to its Hostility version). Once you stack enough of it, negotiations are over almost instantly. 

I can’t say Dominance needs a buff. It’s an extremely strong strategy already.

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Gr1m-    97

Dominance has potential to do more damage and end negotiations more quickly, since it's max damage isnt capped like Diplomacy is.
 

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Kittens    2
1 hour ago, pacovf said:

Sal also always starts with a card that grants two dominance (Sal’a instincts, upgraded to its Hostility version).

Yeah, Hostile Instincts -> Obtuse is a card that's actually cost effective at deploying Dominance. I wish there were more cards like it, I guess.

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Cpt. KatKit    231

Just oneshot the pre-boss negotiation on Rook with the card that spends dominance and loops 3 damage + gamble per card.. I had the coin that grants Dominance on snail so I think that played a part in getting some ridiculous damage streaks lol. But yeah I don't like getting it on Sal. 

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Talyn    2

I overall feel like Dominance/Hostility builds are much less stable than Diplomacy or Manipulation. My Doubt-generator decks on Sal have rarely even come into danger of losing a negotiation, and their only real downside is that they get a bit chaotic when it comes to specific target negotiations like the auction [If you don't just 'Flash Badge' the item you want anyway, thanks Oolo!] 

Negotiation with Influence build/burn or Preparation setups are a little weaker than dominance decks with evoke cards and all, but they are less likely to run into hard countering. I've made a few tries at setting up good hostility decks, and you pretty much HAVE to go with evocation... which means I cringe whenever I run into short-tempered enemies, because if I can't instantly remove 'Escalation', I lose as it gains 30 HP and grants my opponent +17 to attack. Meanwhile, the hardest diplomacy counter is... -2 max damage. And the hardest manipulation counter is... +2 resolve per manipulation card.

One particular argument shouldn't be able to counter an entire strategy. If I don't have instant argument removal on the immediate turn that escalation appears, I lose the whole negotiation?

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ZeppMan217    365
6 hours ago, Talyn said:

Meanwhile, the hardest diplomacy counter is... -2 max damage. And the hardest manipulation counter is... +2 resolve per manipulation card.

Spree have an argument that grants em +2 damage per stack of your Influence, the crown thing.

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AugustGreen    7

I fell like Dominance-based damage is very strong option on Rook, mainly because of Tyrant's Coin (Gain 1 Dominance on Snail) that garanteed to drop on Day 3. You in general have very good reasons to build around Rigging and lots of Gambling, as many powerfull cards require gambling first and then for Coin to flip on particular side. So +3-4 Dominance per turn is very doable (and modest). My last run I managed to get 6 Twisted Dead Draws (Draw 2 cards, then Gamble, if Snail - they cost 1 less), and very often chained them in a row, playing five-six 0 cost cards in a turn, while gaining Dominanse as a side effect. Almost too strong, but fun. 

Sal's cards on the other hand don't offer reliable way to gain Dominance, and her damage-dealing hostility cards in general are not that exciting (barring Low Blow and Scorched Earth). I mean Tall Opress deals 2-9 damage, while Enhanced Intrigue deals 9-10, if you have 1 Dominance/1 Influence respectively. Tall overbear deals 2-6 in AoE-ish way, whereas Flatter deals 5 AoE damage. It's not very fair comparison, but I feel it reflects my point well. Granted, premium Influence-based damage cards are all spending Influence (Tall Plead, Intrigue, Beguile, Appeal to Reason, Flatter), but it's so much easier to accumulate Influence than Dominance. Not only there are more cards that give you Influence when you play them than Dominance (and give you more of it), but there is Solid Point (card that you just have to draw) and Ipso Facto (Evokes when you remove/destroy enemy argument, wich generally you want to do anyway). 

Then there is somewhat unreliable Evoking deck that benefits heavily from Dominance. But to construct it, you generally want to add 2-3 Abrupt Remarks and some Erupt/Invective and watch, as cards fly by and do over 15-20 damage when you destroy enemy arguments. Man alive, it sucks, when out of 6 cards you draw 4 of them are unplayable, though. And sure, Scorched Earth is very strong, but you may not see it in a run at all.

Now, not all Sal's hostility cards are bad, just ones that deal damage. Scorched Earth is nice, Low Blow is great, Bulldoze is... fine. In fact, Low Blow and Evil Eye is so good, I want it in any deck (if they aren't against anything better). But Dominance? Not for my pal Sal.

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pacovf    915

I think people underestimate how bonkers Obtuse is (and Flatter, for that matter), which is why other Dominance cards don't seem as good. Just keep a small deck with lots of card draw and you're good to go. Ways to play Obtuse more often (Duplicity, Ergo) are recommended. Two of Threaten upgrades are great in that type of deck (the one that gives Dominance, the one that attacks twice). Visionary Overbear is amazing too, Tyrannize is perfectly playable if you splash some Solid Point in or whatever. Oppress is a bit wonky at first , but it shines once the deck gets going. Same for Domineer. And of course, Intimidate negotiations are a lot easier with Hostility decks.

This deck archetype was better with old Bulldoze, but it's still playable, even without spamming Evoke cards. Just keep your deck small.

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ZeppMan217    365

There's also the issue of Composure maintenance when you go the Hostility route. Neither Sal nor Rook have any Hostility cards that apply Composure. In fact, Rook has only 2 playable Composure cards: Blockade (which does nothing without Heads) and Prattle. At the same time, Sal has 3 nutty Composure cards that don't require anything: Keep Cool, Calm, and Hard Facts, all of which have amazing upgrades, too; then there's also Aplomb, which is fantastic but requires Influence, and Back Pedal.

Hostility simply lacks the backbone support cards to make it as easily pilotable as Diplomacy.

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