gaymime

does a ds player have an advantage over a literate newbie playing dst for the first time?

does a ds player have an advantage over a literate newbie playing dst for the first time?  

126 members have voted

  1. 1. which is more useful in keeping a first-time player alive to winter?

    • playing ds(with expansions) for more than 50 hours
      48
    • reading the wiki
      20
    • both are about the same on their own
      25
    • neither are that useful
      4
    • i've never thought about this before
      12
    • i have been playing so long that i forgot what it was like to be a newbie
      17


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gaymime    1649

i have been lurking both the ds and dst forums for a little bit now and i was curious about peoples' theories on education vs experience for new players(both from the pov of said players and from the community at large).

 

if you feel comfortable sharing could you tell me what you think AND how many hours(rounded roughly to the nearest 0) you've been playing dst? i would really like to know.

Edited by gaymime

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Having experience makes a huge difference. I’ve probably put 500ish into DS? That was on the Vita, so I don’t have the exact numbers. I think I’ve put about 300 into DST. When I was playing DS, I actually made a point of not reading the wiki, since the world was so bizarre that I wanted to figure it out for my self. Plus it was kind of funny dying in insane ways. Who knew that a pack of penguins could run you down and peck you to death. . . 
 

I ended up knowing a ton about the game and it’s mechanics though. I don’t know quite as much about all the DST nooks and crannies, but my DS experience has made me a good deal better at staying alive than my friends. 

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Owlrus98    2624

The original DS plays very similar to DST today. As a matter of fact, most of the things you see in DST works almost exactly the same in DS with a few exceptions such as the Lunar Island, Sailing, Dragonfly Desert, Moon Stone setpiece.

So I would say, definitely the first option. No doubt.

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ShadowDuelist    6130

At this point DS and DST are quite different. Every time a player that shows in our server, has less than 10 hours, and states to "know DS" gets politely recommended to take the time to check for the differences alone, and read the wiki. In some cases this wasn't necessary.

So far we had 3 types of DS players moving to DST for the first time:

  • The overly confident: players that state to know the game because they played DS, then make all the "noob" mistakes in the book, die before their first 20 days (usually to terrorbeaks) and leave. These are players that know the very basics in DS, probably survived alone until winter, and that's about it. In this case their knowledge probably helped them to survive the night and other basic things, but they didn't have enough in-depth knowledge at neither of the two games to perform well on DST
  • The DS Pro: a player that doesn't say much, when asked if it's new says they "sort of" are, but when facing enemies they know how to kite perfectly, kill terrorbeaks on their own, and provide their own food. This guy particularly, had like 2 hours on DST, but over 900 hours on DS, and despite not knowing many "multiplayer codes of being corteous" he was pretty happy while finding the new things, and had absolutely no problem adapting.
  • The Lone Survivor: The player that knows a lot about DS, can survive decently on their own, but still behaves as if they were still alone, hammering and looting structures, picking up other player's planted flowers, causing pig extinction, hoarding food and items,  and other "bad mannered" acts on a DST enviroment. They are usually frowned upon quickly and/or kicked from the server.


TL;DR: Depends on the skill of the player at  singleplayer DS, and how fast they adapt to learn the codes of conduct when among other players.


 

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Pixil    868

If a player had not known some differences in simple things that the two games had (I've seen my fair share of players claiming day 9 is a full moon and then dying to darkness randomly...)

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Mike23Ua    5859

I have to disagree with roughly everyone here, I learned EVERYTHING I know about DS by playing DST... When I saw multiple other players doing something repeatedly I observed what they did and how they played and learned from it.. I don’t read a Wikipedia page unless I absolutely have to- Because for me the joy of learning the Franchise is either at your own pace through trial and error or learning from someone else.

I will provide a whole bunch of examples now and be warned these will be spoilers for BOTH Games.

Spoiler

I learned that plucking flowers and crafting Head garlands raised Sanity in DST by watching people do it.

I learned how to craft Rabbit traps and then intentionally scare rabbits into them from my own curiosity if it would work, 

I learned how to build campfires/Set stuff on fire to keep from freezing to death in a Solo DS and THEN I learned  how to build a Thermal stone by watching people throw theirs on the ground by a fire till it started to glow in DST and laugh at the thought of Winter..

I learned that you could fish in ponds by watching someone randomly doing it.. 

There are a lot of Things you will learn in DST that makes DS Solo laughably easy.. And there are a few things about DST that are significantly easier in DS Solo.. here are a few examples-

Thermal Stones have no durability in Solo DS they do in DST.

captured rabbits and bees never starve to death in your inventory in solo DS, they Do in DST...

As you can see with the above spoiler- there are differences between the games, and DST is where you should start if you want to Conquer DS Solo.

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Experience is simply all you need, so playing DS is definetely your answer for this question. You will die so many times and you will learn from your mistakes when everytime you die.

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Misa22    638

I remember dying on Winter everytime on my first runs when I had no idea. 

I started reading the wiki, doing this and that... I remember when i discovered about the birdcage usefulness, or that monster meat is actually a really good thing, etc. 

But if you only read and don't practice you will fail inevitably. Experience, knowledge and applying that new thing you just learned/read, that is the recipe for success. 

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gaymime    1649
39 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

 

 

hun, you should read the question before you try and anwser? i didn't ask if dst helps you play ds better

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Shosuko    2231

While I played a lot of DS before DST, probably ~500 hours worth, I was only ever good at DS/DST with help from wikis.  I had to learn about the characters, their perks and weaknesses, how to unlock Wes and Maxwell, all of the secrets of adventure mode, winter survival, ect.  So for me the wiki made the difference.  When I first started I didn't even think of crafting structures or building a base, or food production.  I just did the nomad thing, explored, lived or died, rinse repeat.

Between pre-RoG and DST release I didn't play at all.  It was a big jump getting back into the game on DST with spring, summer, caves, and a lot more bosses.  I probably wouldn't have bothered even interacting with them if I didn't learn about them on the wiki.  Knowing what there was to play with drove me to actually play the game.  If I didn't know about these things I probably wouldn't have even come back.

I don't care about the virginal experience.  I don't need to figure everything out myself and do everything the hard way just to enjoy the game.  I much prefer sharing information to see what the best / most interesting strategies are for food production, survival, farming, and more.  I create a lot of test worlds just spawning things in to play with.  It probably accounts for half of my game time these days.

Edited by Shosuko
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GenomeSquirrel    837

The wiki, items are so diluted and poorly described that you may never realize a thermal stone exists or that a beefalo hat/tam are good for warmth. I don’t see brute force, trial and error coming close.

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CameoAppearance    2116

I learned the basics by playing singleplayer DS, and by my tenth try - well before the 50 hour mark - I managed to reach winter. (No expansions, though; this was before Shipwrecked or Hamlet existed and I didn't have Reign of Giants yet. Still, surviving autumn is only slightly different between vanilla and RoG.) I deliberately didn't look at the wiki until I had a strategy for basic survival down; I figured out what to do by reading the crafting menus thoroughly and by trial and error. Still, there's a lot of things that would have escaped me if I hadn't looked them up on the wiki eventually; the first thing I ever looked up was treeguards, because I wanted to know how much HP these ridiculously tanky boss monsters had, and that's how I found out that it was possible to pacify them instead of just killing them.

I don't really know how well a player who was dropped into a DST server having never played Don't Starve before and didn't have anyone else helping them would be able to do using only the wiki, because it's so far from how I learned to play. I'm in favour of people learning to play in the singleplayer game before trying DST because it's a slightly softer introduction, but if it's not an option available to you (say, if you can afford one game but not both) the wiki is probably an okay substitute?

I have 3000 hours between DS and DST, rounded down.

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CaptainChaotica    5289

Oh, I can think of ONE place where being only used to DST and not regular DS would make things actually _harder_, Mike23AUa...

One word:

DRAGONFLY.

Can you imagine, somebody's reaction who has ONLY ever known the Dragonfly as a stay-put raid boss, seeing it float smack into their camp like "Hi how ya doin'?" without a by-your-leave sometime in the already punishing summer?  I'm imagining a lot of "WHAT THE (CENSORED)?!", panicked flailing to make sure the flingos are on, and falling over out of shock. 
Even crueller if they randomly started in spring (which happens sometimes in DS, under regular settings) and did NOT have enough time to find gears and at least 15 ice.  THAT happens to me all the freaking time.  It's why I'm now comfortable with "going nomadic" during summer...

Now, true, if you make it to summer on your own in _any_ version of DS you've got at least SOME experience, but would you necessarily know about that _particular_ difference unless you were told, saw someone else's gameplay or read the Wiki?  I think probably not.  Anyway, my own experience (put into spoilers 'cos I am a RAMBLY little beeyotch):

Spoiler

I started from regular DS, first on vanilla although RoG already existed, but I deliberately did not look up much about it until I felt I was pretty comfortable in vanilla, which was probably when I managed 100 days in one run or somesuch.  Then I leapt into RoG and despite the new difficulties, NEVER looked back, 'cos I'd been thinking the game should have four seasons instead of two _forever_ and most of the other new stuff in that pack appeals to me as well.  Shipwrecked was in beta at the time; I forget which version I came in on but I do remember patch notes like "WOODLEGS CAN NOW DROWN".

Most of my singleplayer DS experience happened in the standalone non-Steam version, so...my Steam hours are not my true hours on it.  It might be around 200 in reality? I had a variation of "learn from the Wiki before you even start playing"...in my case, it was "Watch Let's Plays of other noobs who are capable of learning as they go along, before playing".  (Specifically, Sips' Wilson playthrough/part of his Willow one, and JackSepticEye's 2013 playthrough.)

...but amusingly, that was not the original reason I _started_ watching these guys.  It was because I vaguely remembered hearing about some game called "Don't Starve" on a gaming-related podcast years ago (obviously that'd be the beta version), and just THEN got around to looking up...what it was even _like_. I watched the YouTube footage out of  curiosity/to get the feel of the game so I could decide whether or not _I_ wanted to play it; the fact that it was also kinda tutorialising me was secondary until I GOT my copy.  : P

Reading the Wiki alone would NOT have had the same effect at all--I'd know stuff, but without seeing the charming artwork, animation and sense of humour _in action_ those words on the screen would've been much more flat and abstract...  Instead, watching YouTube videos of it told me "Wait...it's a roguelike...but one where you CAN carry over at least KNOWLEDGE to the next game? Like, all the potions and wands don't re-randomise what they do, every single new game?  You can at least make permanent progress in your _brain_?  HALLELUJAH where do I sign up?  Oh and also it's adorable."

Neither Jacksepticeye nor Sips made it through their first winters, but by watching them I learned some important OPPOSITE tips, such as "Cold really IS that bad" and "Always, always, ALWAYS carry fire materials on you. At all times.  Don't assume you can 'just make it home'...sometimes you won't."  Also just in general:  "STAY AWAY FROM RED-BUTT BEEFALO." (That's how Sips' first playthrough ended.  Jack's was because winter.)  Oh yeah--and also the basics regarding darkness, sanity, traps, and crock pots.  (I could've guessed about the darkness though--I still have that "THE TORCH IS GOING OUT!!" music from "Shadowgate" _burned into my brain_.  It's on the same level as the Sonic drowning music.  Also I knew that if I went any further without a light, I was likely to be eaten by a grue.)

So THAT'S why I was able to make it to the night of Day 36 on my first try, in vanilla DS--with the knowledge I'd gained from watching others.   Note that since that was Day _36_ that means I made it all the way through winter on my first try, YAY!  But then I died to not being able to place a campfire in time.

I'd argue that how much DS knowledge helps you with DST changes a fair bit depending on WHEN you first started with DST. Starting with the DST beta is a whole other set of problems, as a lot of major mechanics were changed (like your own calendar getting out of sync with the world day when you die and the booster shot recipe being way different) but AFTER the full launch...? 

Spoiler

Well, to start with DST only had the differences of the alternate resources (grass geckos, (different looking) twiggy trees, and juicy berry bushes), the full moon being only one night and on a different night, the Dragonfly being a raid boss instead of a regular seasonal giant and the caves and ruins being on the same level...and CONSIDERABLY MORE HOUNDS per early attack.  Also little quality-of-life tweaks such as still being able to gather while your hands are full, or how hitting spacebar over a tooth trap always reset it instead of picking it up.  And aesthetic changes relating to Charlie, such as the new portal, statues and roses. 
Oh, and being a ghost  You don't just  see "YOU SURVIVED (NUMBER) DAYS!" _immediately_ when you fall over and make your dying noise, anymore (if you haven't gotten in touch with a touchstone).

...and of course the character gameplay differences--which could REALLY throw you for a loop if you played, say, Willow or Woodie.  This would be when I came in (like, the next _day_ after launch day I think).

More and more and MORE new stuff got added on over time, to the point where now I'd say having the basics of Don't Starve movement and controls down (which ALWAYS helps) isn't enough; the ENTIRE FREAKING OCEAN has changed and there are new characters to play as that you have _no_ experience with ANY version of.  You've got eating nothing but meat dishes down...but have you tried being a Constant (lol) vegan?  What's with this...whole new tab regarding Abigail?  Who the heck is Winona?  Why is there a hole under that huge tentacle I just killed OH BEEP.  Oh, and the fact that not all deserts are equal now and sometimes they have a massive sandstorm--and that said sandstorm is INSTANT DEATH if the hounds attack right then!--could be a bit of a shock...

Anyway, long story short (TOO LATE!) I'd say that actual experience or at least watching other peoples' is very valuable, 'cos it puts those words on the wiki into actual, visible _practice_.  I've always felt that the Wiki should be consulted when you're confused on a specific thing, such as "What WAS the recipe for butter muffins, again?" or "How many HP does this boss have..should I try it now or make another backup logsuit first?"  Well, that's how _I_ use it mainly--to look up recipes when I accidentally make meatballs or goop.

What kind of veteran am I?  I'd say kind of a POLITE "lone survivor".  I always keep stores of necessary supplies on me as a holdover from my "Of course I have to do this myself, nobody ELSE is gonna gather this for me and put it in a treasure chest!" days...but if anyone asks I'm the helpful one who always has some grass/twigs/logs etc...I hold onto valuable things such as gears ONLY if there's a WX that I don't trust nearby but otherwise put stuff into storage...I try to pick only like, only one of every _few_ basic resource I see out of courtesy to others (unless I joined late and everything's picked over), I ask before I use or take valuable stuff and also explain what I'm gonna do with it ("Can I use this gold?  I need electronic doo-dads to make an endothermic firepit."), and I don't ask where's base or start messing with said base UNTIL I'm invited.   
I very much play it as "I CAN play alone, but it'd be nice to have help, if that's possible", I guess. 

On my own (usually solo) worlds I tend to take stuff for myself but share IF somebody else shows up, and always make a firepit of each kind with multiple axes, trees, and a helpful sign at the portal.

Spoiler

I HAVE tried teaching a noob (to _both_ games)...but my teaching style is kinda haphazard.  I tend to just say about things as we run into them, such as "That's a wormhole.  It teleports you to somewhere else across the map, but messes up your sanity.  However, since we both have good sanity right now and it's nowhere near nighttime, let's GOOooo...!"  And then "Ooh, we found the desert!  That's actually really good.   It's dangerous but there are good resources here."  "OH MY GOD you found a gear in your _very first_ tumbleweed ever?  Dude you don't even KNOW yet, but those can be hella rare. They're very important to make stuff you're gonna _need_ later." 
Later on:  "See how that tree has no leaves? That means it's almost winter" and "Don't worry about the big creature to the northeast, but also don't get too close. That's Mama Goose; she's gonna be our hound-control system for the spring.  It's one of my favourite ways to play this game--use parts of it against each other!"

Said "noob" was in fact my brother--god only knows how some random stranger would've reacted to this "tutorial"... : P

My hours?  Well, the STEAM version of DS says 80 hours, but I know I made it through many hundreds of days in both vanilla and RoG and failed miserably at Shipwrecked several times before I _got_ the Steam version, so that's not accurate, and...
DST:  ...995.

...Well, what can I say, the more variety and customization in DST apparently keeps me coming back more--although I usually play alone, but the new stuff makes even the _alone_ experience different enough.  Also I've gotten hooked on some DST-only mods that I would be sad to play without.  Regular DS is kinda plain now and requires some adjusting to go back to...although I DO still rather miss the old ocean and for a long time, that was the only way I could play _my_ Willow without mods.

...Notorious

Edited by CaptainChaotica
fixed some wording and took out the extra blank lines in the spoilers.
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CameoAppearance    2116
9 hours ago, CaptainChaotica said:

Oh, I can think of ONE place where being only used to DST and not regular DS would make things actually _harder_, Mike23AUa...

One word:

DRAGONFLY.

Can you imagine, somebody's reaction who has ONLY ever known the Dragonfly as a stay-put raid boss, seeing it float smack into their camp like "Hi how ya doin'?" without a by-your-leave sometime in the already punishing summer?  I'm imagining a lot of "WHAT THE (CENSORED)?!", panicked flailing to make sure the flingos are on, and falling over out of shock. 
Even crueller if they randomly started in spring (which happens sometimes in DS, under regular settings) and did NOT have enough time to find gears and at least 15 ice.  THAT happens to me all the freaking time.  It's why I'm now comfortable with "going nomadic" during summer...

Oh god, I actually did play DST for over a year before I bought singleplayer RoG and this is reminding me of my first few experiences with singleplayer summer. I still don't try to fight her myself, I just get the hell out of my camp. I knew she was coming, at least, but a lot of my encounters with her have been getting aggroed onto and instantly killed as I go through the DST desert or running away as fast as I possibly can to avoid same, so I think of her as death incarnate to a much greater degree than the other three giants. 

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Shosuko    2231
On 6/19/2020 at 3:22 AM, CaptainChaotica said:

Oh, I can think of ONE place where being only used to DST and not regular DS would make things actually _harder_, Mike23AUa...

One word:

Hornets

Edited by Shosuko
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emin61    724

Wikipedia, one hell of a big brain place. if it would be that case. i did vote for wikipedia but eh? i cant remember how noobish i was back in the days. i actually refused to play solo in dst and mostly got bored after early autumn (day 1-21) but now look at me. evolved to a veteran at the end of day

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Mike23Ua    5859
On 6/19/2020 at 7:43 AM, Ogrecakes said:

DST is easier than vanilla DS.

Very very much so lmao.. to the point that DST almost comes across as a Base Building Party Simulator where you can sit around campfires telling ghost stories, and it is really really sad... almost a “fall from grace” if you will type of Sad, Because DS Single Player (At least the Adventures Mode part of it..) Is a incredibly challenging experience where simply just going into a particular biome unprepared & without the proper protection WILL be the end of you.

Not counting the ability to roll the server back.. in DST, DS Single player had some pretty significant differences to DST. 
Thermal Stones did not have a Durability in DS Solo.. which you would THINK meant DST was harder- Except that Thermal stones also went colder a lot faster in Solo DS and couldn’t be your one stop solution to freezing. Unlike in DST where a single Thermal could very well be the only item you need to survive a full (Default) Winter.

Theres also the missing Progression Blocking Obstructions... but I made a thread about that over in the suggestions forum last night in hopes that someone see’s it and finds a way to implement them back in.

The TL:DR- people who played DS single player will be able to pick up DST and with the exceptions of a few additional DST exclusive things here & there will have the Advantage for certain.

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minespatch    74620

Klei has specified to players that DST is a sequel. I highly recommend new players to try out single player first before getting eased into the easier DST.

The original basically has simple mechanics but is harder.

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