Mantas

Suggestions for the Maxwell (hopefully) and Wickerbottom reworks

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Mantas    800

So, here I come to give you my ideas what I had for their reworks as they are mage characters and they should improve upon being mage characters:

Maxwell - Glass Cannon
-Improve upon fighting minion stats maybe, or AI when it comes to high AOE enemies.
-Give Maxwell a Spell Power Boost, increasing damage from fire staffs or and ice staffs.

-Since Maxwell is a glass cannon, maybe offer him up either a ranged or direct shadow attacks like they were displayed within Forge.
-Give Maxwell limited spell power increase, he could cast spells while his book is active or is near him like - One Hit Shields, Shadow hand puddles to stop and root your enemy to the ground (but not stun, they can still self defend), a Shadow Blast to make a powerful blow, but would take a moment to cast. All requiring nightmare fuel.
With that I kinda hope there would be a Night Light update since Maxwell had a similar sort of equivalent as Maxwell lights, Feast And Famine mod made them useful to act like a priority of smoldering during summers almost like lureplants, but if they are burning they won't work. Also to remove that flingos could put their lights off.. Unless ice staffs are involved idk I just wanna see more use for them since noone really uses them. :B


Wickerbottom - Utility
-Book stand or idk what name it is for that. A stand where your books when set will passively loose durability but would have a similar effect like when you read the book instead it would use the durability of books slowly in less effective fashion. For an example - WX gets to charge himself with her books when needed by using The End is Nigh, or when there's a hoard of enemies or a boss the book will cast slows to the point of the boss would fall asleep when having a Sleepy Time Stories placed on it. It would link to a caster and drain their sanity as one of the books gets used.
-Wickerbottom 
having laser eyes like from X-Men. Or would make you blind if she opens them.
-Wickerbottom can tell how long will the food she examines will last(?)
-Wickerbottom 
honestly I am not sure what else there needs to be added for her, she seems decent at what she is and maybe just additionally few new books to be added and that's all. My imagination is kinda low on this. Not gonna lie. :T

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Mantas    800
4 minutes ago, BreadScientist said:

Maxwell should not turn into a combat character, there is really no reason for him to be.

I mean, I guess. But there should be something for him to do instead of being just a gatherer : x

Edited by Mantas
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Yeah I agree if we have to pick a side combat is way more interesting for a magician than resource gatherer. I’m sure there’s some middle line that exists that focuses on magic and shadows altogether as opposed to just combat and just utility. 

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Mike23Ua    5644

My only suggestion is that they don’t listen to the people crying for Wickerbottom to be nerfed into the ground.. she’s MEANT to be an overpowered “Merlin-Like” Character.

The only thing I would change is crafting recipes to require harder to get ingredients like Mushroom, Frog Legs, Batwing etc.. but in the end I suppose it’s entirely up to Klei what they do to her.

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Dr. Safety    3104

With Maxwell I'd like to see a complete magic overhaul. It would be nice for magic combat to be a little more than just darkswords. As for Maxwell himself, I think he is fine as is except make him the Wickerbottom of magic when it comes to knowledge (tier 1 magic unlocked from the start, or at the very least a shadow manipulator). Also adding a way to make shadow puppets passive and not just "OH GOD TREE KILL IT KILL IT" is a long time coming. Finally the change in shadow duelists, whether it be them copying the weapon and armor that the caster currently has or just AI change. One thing I hope stays the same is the max sanity values required to make the shadow puppets. Infinite insanity on Maxwell is good with 2 duelists 1 worker.

For Wickerbottom, I'd like to see more combat related books. As powerful as they are, I'm thinking something similar to illusion magic from skyrim. A book to pacify everything on screen to help with mating beefalos or frog rains. A book to make everything on screen aggro to anything, to do the exact opposite of the previous one. Even if they can only be crafted at the ancient pseudoscience station with special gems, I think that Wickerbottom is easily the character with the most potential for a creative rework, and I'd like to see that put into practice when it comes to book combat.

For both of these characters, I don't want their refresh to be a total buff (especially Wicker), but I can't think of any additional downsides to add to their upsides right now. My brain is a little fried after work today lol.

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Russian_Philin    10092
Spoiler
On 6/18/2020 at 2:43 AM, Mantas said:

So, here I come to give you my ideas what I had for their reworks as they are mage characters and they should improve upon being mage characters:

Maxwell - Glass Cannon
-Improve upon fighting minion stats maybe, or AI when it comes to high AOE enemies.
-Give Maxwell a Spell Power Boost, increasing damage from fire staffs or and ice staffs.

-Since Maxwell is a glass cannon, maybe offer him up either a ranged or direct shadow attacks like they were displayed within Forge.
-Give Maxwell limited spell power increase, he could cast spells while his book is active or is near him like - One Hit Shields, Shadow hand puddles to stop and root your enemy to the ground (but not stun, they can still self defend), a Shadow Blast to make a powerful blow, but would take a moment to cast. All requiring nightmare fuel.
With that I kinda hope there would be a Night Light update since Maxwell had a similar sort of equivalent as Maxwell lights, Feast And Famine mod made them useful to act like a priority of smoldering during summers almost like lureplants, but if they are burning they won't work. Also to remove that flingos could put their lights off.. Unless ice staffs are involved idk I just wanna see more use for them since noone really uses them. :B


Wickerbottom - Utility
-Book stand or idk what name it is for that. A stand where your books when set will passively loose durability but would have a similar effect like when you read the book instead it would use the durability of books slowly in less effective fashion. For an example - WX gets to charge himself with her books when needed by using The End is Nigh, or when there's a hoard of enemies or a boss the book will cast slows to the point of the boss would fall asleep when having a Sleepy Time Stories placed on it. It would link to a caster and drain their sanity as one of the books gets used.
-Wickerbottom 
having laser eyes like from X-Men. Or would make you blind if she opens them.
-Wickerbottom can tell how long will the food she examines will last(?)
-Wickerbottom 
honestly I am not sure what else there needs to be added for her, she seems decent at what she is and maybe just additionally few new books to be added and that's all. My imagination is kinda low on this. Not gonna lie. :T

 

As always, I decided to express my important (no) and interesting (no) opinion related to the reworks for these characters.
In my opinion, Maxwell just needs to make the same mechanics for shadow clones as Abigail. So that you can use the book to control them: well, to allow them to work, and when you don't need them to work, just turn them off and let them follow you. This is probably the most potential trait he needs.
Well, he should also rework some types of shadow servants, especially fighters. They need either a buff or something else significant so that they can normally kill ordinary enemies.
Old lady...Well, it's complicated. She already has not bad abilities. I would like to add some more disadvantages to her, to balance her advantages with the books. Well, it's logical that in this rework it is worth remaking the mechanics of some books, because not all of them have a decent use.

Edited by Russian_Philin
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Well-met    2532
2 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

I'm honestly opposed to this. I don't think his clones should tank and distract. I'm personally getting tired of the reworks making it so that a character's downside is either irrelevant, or largely negated by one of their perks. I think it would be a lot better if Maxwell fit in the glass cannon archetype where his shadows can add additional dps, but all agro falls onto Maxwell himself.

Besides, we already have Wendy and Abigail if you want something to tank and distract for you.

And Bernie.

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minespatch    74342
2 minutes ago, Sinister_Fang said:

. I don't think his clones should tank and distract.

I was in jest but alright.

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cantbeatdaboss    458

I dont want wick's perks to be nerfed, in fact I'd be fine with them getting some buffs as long as she gets some actual downsides.

Edited by cantbeatdaboss

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MrSoratori    57

Guys you are focusing so badly on metagame and to be honest idk if this is the point in a DST
I know reworks are made to improve chars but its not to polish in this level to strategy, its a survival game not league of legends
The word "glass cannon" are bein so commom here and i dont get it why have a reason to put the chars in this positions to be something also themselves as a char, not a class
 

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ShadowDuelist    6012

I wouldn't mind to extend his combat power through shadow magic, so long as his rework is not entirely focused on that.

I'd also like to see more types of shadows. Perhaps some shadows could be combat oriented but in different ways of the currently existing minions.

I've also been thinking that maybe after all this time living with others, Maxwell could have learned to do new things with his shadows, mostly instead of cloning himself, he can clone other characters by the mental image of utility he has of them. They'd look like the silhouette of the other characters, instead of looking like the silhouette of Maxwell, but they'd still behave as Maxwell puppets.

EG:

  • A Woodie clone would be like the current shadow logger, only that it turns into a shadowbeaver once and then, and chops slightly faster than the average chopper clone.
  • A Willow clone would hold a torch for him (you have to keep giving it torches so it keeps the light on. Torches would last a lot longer than what they normally do though)
  • A Wes clone would startle enemies popping shadow balloons, and then run in circles, basically drawing aggro and attention (but not doing any damage.)
  • A Wolfgang clone could help you carry statues or marble pieces, with better movement speed than carrying them yourself.
  • A Wilson clone would hold a telltaleheart and follow you around, constantly saying really dumb and annoying things (it's Maxwell's mental image of him, not the real Wilson). If you die, he will revive you with the telltaleheart, and despawn.
  • A Webber clone would pacify or confuse spiders temporally, and will despawn after a short while.
  • A Winona clone would install tiny shadow catapults that deal 15 damage and last only a few shots. She does that once, has a short cooldown not doing anything, then after the catapult has been gone for X time, does it again. All aggro from it is applied on Maxwell.
  • A Wigfrid clone would be the always requested improved shadow duelist, a fighter clone that adds DPS and doesn't die to everything.

ETC...

 

Edited by ShadowDuelist

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I've been thinking a long time about how to make Maxwell dope instead of being just a resource Harvester. Also I want Maxwell to have the highest game knowledge ceiling in the game. This is a complete rework idea.

Buffs:

* You no longer have to drop your Codex Umbra to cast spells or summon allies. (Just like base Don't Starve)

* Dropping the Codex Umbra turns it into a Magic item repair station, you can open it to access 2 slots. Slot 1 is for the magic item you want to repair and slot 2 is for nightmare fuel that is required repair magic items with. The item will consume nightmare fuel repair slowly over time, meaning you might want to craft multiple Codex Umbras. While repairing, the item will float above the Codex Umbra with a sick shadow repairing animation. Only Maxwell can do this.

* New Spell: Haunted Harvest,(Cost 3 Silk, 1 Nightmare fuel, and 35 Current Sanity) It'll haunt everything around him and pick up 18-22 items around you. Kinda like a Lazy Forager but you pick up multiple items around you instantly instead of having a duration. It'll harvest nearby saplings and grass tufts too. Also, everything harvested will be haunted so meat will turn into monster meat and trees around you might turn into Treeguards or poison Birch. You could use this near hounds to harvest gems quickly or pick up a bunch of flowers which turns to evil flowers and make nightmare fuel. Or Transform all the pigs around you into Were pigs, handy for getting rid of Pig guardians.

*New Spell: Ghastly Enthrallment, (Cost 2 Pig Skin, 1 Purple Gems, and 55% Max Sanity to cast) (This spell also increases naughtyness by an additional 5). It can Be casted on a Turkey, Pigmen, Bunnymen, Beefalo, or Volt Goats. Into your Ghastly Thrall and have a shadowy cosmetic aura for 3 full days. Turkey will harvest berries twigs and grass in a very small radius around you and also gain an attack like pigmen punches but still will die in 1-2 hits. They are able to kill birds before they fly away. Pigmen will turn into a were pig. The were pig will also harvest with you or your shadow puppets. The Bunnymen will turn into a Beard Lord, Will Drop 1-2 Beard hair every day under your service and will not sleep durring the day, The Beefalo will turn into a Tamed Default beefalo and has a speed modifier of a normal saddle and will not sleep durring the night, The Volt Goat will turn into a charged can ridden, though much slower than the beefalo but will attack with eletric damage and will also not sleep durring the night.

* New Summon: Shadow Guardian: (Cost 1 Dark Sword, 1 Night Armor, 70% Sanity to cast) Summons a powerful floating sword wielding Shadow Guardian with 800 Max hp (Scales with durability of the sword and armor used) and 150 damage, attacks slightly faster than a  tree guard. Each attack has a 20% chance to spawn a ring of swords like that Ancient Fuel Weaver Attack. Each time it loses hp, it'll teleport, (attacks will not be cancelled by teleport) like a shadow creature. Banishing the Sword Guardian will return the dark sword and the shadow armor with their durability = (hp/8), Cannot regenerate like the duelist but Sword and Armor recovered can be repaired from the 1st feature mentioned. If the Shadow Guardian dies, all materials will be lost.

*Wearing a Top Hat or a Dapper Vest will reduce max sanity penalty by 20% each (buff stacks). Taking them off and running out of max sanity will cause your last summon to despawn until you have Max Sanity left again.

Nerfs:

*Shadow Puppets work 25% slower than previously.

*Shadow Puppets cost 27% max sanity now.

*Charlie's attack on Maxwell will pierce armor, always 1 shotting him. (durability of the armor remains)

*Remove Shadow Duelist

*Casting any spell or summoning will cause nearby Neutral creatures to wake up and become hostile to you . (Reading Wicker's Books will also cause this effect)

*Each time Maxwell summons or casts a spell will also increase his naughtyness by 3. (Includes Wicker's Books)

*Krampus Waves that Maxwell summons also comes with bats 2 per krampus.

*Dying will disintegrate your nearest Codex Umbra. (will not disintegrate any Codex Umbras that you haven't touched)

*Hunger will drain 1% faster for every 5 max Sanity lost.

Final Thoughts:
I think these changes will turn Maxwell the big bad that he used to be back in adventure mode. Though only very experienced players can gather enough materials to play him to his fullest and use his spell accordingly so they don't die. This is a challenge character for the inexperienced since you will die in 1 hit from charlie, and if you use the wrong spell at the wrong place you'll be mauled by everything around you (including Bees, Pengulls, Splumonkeys, Catcoons and Rock Lobsters). And if you cast more than you can handle, bats will swarm you while Krampus will raids your base. Even If you revive after death, you still gotta have a lot of healing and papyrus if you want to use the shadow tab again.  Also I didn't take into the consideration on how much work it will take to implement all of these changes and may be highly impractical in a development perspective I'd be happy if just one of these features gets in the game.

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Sinister_Fang    9262
9 hours ago, MrSoratori said:

Guys you are focusing so badly on metagame and to be honest idk if this is the point in a DST

Metas are never really the "point" to any game, but efficient choices and/or strategies will pop up in almost every game. Discussing a meta is just as valid as discussing anything else about the game. If it was never discussed, the the meta would never change. Besides, it's extremely difficult not to discuss the meta when part of the topic is aimed directly at a character sitting on the top.

9 hours ago, MrSoratori said:

I know reworks are made to improve chars but its not to polish in this level to strategy, its a survival game not league of legends

I think there's a lot of people on here who think like game devs. I don't think discussing things on a detailed mechanical level is a bad thing in any way.

9 hours ago, MrSoratori said:

The word "glass cannon" are bein so commom here and i dont get it

I think it's because people want a high risk, high reward playstyle. Glass cannons are probably the most common, and easiest way to create that feeling.

9 hours ago, MrSoratori said:

why have a reason to put the chars in this positions to be something also themselves as a char, not a class

Tropes exist. Everything has a "class". Glass cannon just means they can deal a lot of damage, but can't take much. Maxwell is already half way there with his low health making him "glass". If his duelists get reworked in a way that lets them continuously provide additional damage without giving Max himself any defensive capabilities, then he'd gain that "cannon" aspect as well.

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Mantas    800

I still stand by my point that I want a nightlight buff, it was my plan all along! Maybe

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ArubaroBeefalo    2939
On 6/19/2020 at 10:26 PM, MrSoratori said:

Guys you are focusing so badly on metagame and to be honest idk if this is the point in a DST
I know reworks are made to improve chars but its not to polish in this level to strategy, its a survival game not league of legends
The word "glass cannon" are bein so commom here and i dont get it why have a reason to put the chars in this positions to be something also themselves as a char, not a class
 

Refers to a person, weapon, or vehicle which has a high output, but a low defense, life, durability, etc.
 
on topic: i would make shadow duelist real shadows so they will be untargeteable for most mobs but with low damage and removing a huge part from the sanity stat. Also a qol change for the chopper and miner shadows so they dont destroy everything
 
to the old lady, just adding more books (useful books), giving downsides (downsides not "downside like in wendy and woodies rework) like not rearing at full insanity, less speed or less stats from food and change the recipe cost of some of the books
Edited by ArubaroBeefalo

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On 6/17/2020 at 7:51 PM, Mantas said:

I mean, I guess. But there should be something for him to do instead of being just a gatherer : x

He should somehow be your "dark arts" character, yeah maybe everything from the magic tab is stronger when he is using them?

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thegreatJash    326

Wikcerbottom could use some balancing tweaks imo. Maxwell should stick with 75 max health, and the only real perk they should add involving combat to him is to maybe rework his duelists. They kinda suck?

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