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jpmrocks

So what are Walter's Downsides?

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jpmrocks    188

I'm trying to figure out what the heck Walter's downsides are because he has absolutely none.

His one downside is sanity drain on health drain, but kiting completely negates this. You can argue his slingshot negates this, but there's literally nothing stopping you from just kiting normally.

He can also just live in the caves with zero concerns whatsoever, as he gets no sanity drain.

Other downsides like clothing not giving him sanity, or 10 more damage from bees are just jokes, completely negated by his 10 use fur roll called a portable tent. Or, y'know, anything else that heals, heck trailmix is super easy to make and negates HP worries.

Woby takes 3 monster meat and is faster than a speedy beefalo, on top of having 9 inventory slots and is immortal, rending chester useless, as chester still needs to be found. While you can argue upgrades for chester and hutch exist, they require the wait to a full moon and need things like nightmare fuel and blue gems.

So I'm sitting here trying to figure out how the heck Walter has any downsides that balance him at all.

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Well-met    3079

crappy stats for hp and hunger

shadows start pouring out faster at inopportune times

pretty much all characters after their refresh are a straight upgrade to Wilson so i don't think many people are really bothered by this.

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jpmrocks    188
1 minute ago, Well-met said:

crappy stats for hp and hunger

shadows start pouring out faster when you're trying do seasonal giants

Except low HP would be the same has -1 HP with sanity drain. And again, if you can kite giants, there is no loss. You dont even lose sanity when near giants.

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x0-VERSUS-1y    5657

Don't "sit there", go in pubs (Survival Public Servers) and be amazed on how "good" bulk player-base kites. You know, most players like newbies/noobs/casuals.. getting mushed by regular spiders, cats, beefs, tall birds and of course Charlie. Was quite interesting Monday evening on an Endless 10-slots server I visit from time to time where usually 50% are experienced players - a lot of people using Walter were dying left and right.

Yet I concur his sanity-tied-to-hp is not that original or fun. A forumite proposed Walter's main con be related to allergies (here) which imo would be more interesting. Imagine if he could be affected by pollen (Flowers, Butterflies, Moon Moths, and Butter Muffins), Honey (also all honey-centered meals), nuts, Bees and cats, BQ plus Antlion. And those allergies could manifest as swollen face (visually) and not being able to eat for a certain amount of time (mechanically); also inherent additional dmg - an idea.

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Sweaper    691
5 minutes ago, jpmrocks said:

Except low HP would be the same has -1 HP with sanity drain. And again, if you can kite giants, there is no loss. You dont even lose sanity when near giants.

I can't kite giants, send help I'm doomed.

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Scrimbles    3343
6 minutes ago, jpmrocks said:

Except low HP would be the same has -1 HP with sanity drain. And again, if you can kite giants, there is no loss. You dont even lose sanity when near giants.

Taking damage from starving, freezing, overheating, picking spiky bushes or cacti, and eating damaging foods all damage his sanity.

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Pikapikap    773

In the current version, the benefits brought by his slingshot are a bit poor.players thought his arrival might bring new changes to dst’s long-range weapon system because the previous long-range weapon system was not good.when I use Walter myself, I would rather use a ham stick to fight a mob than a slingshot.The animation effect of the forge's long-range weapon is amazing, but Walter's slingshot does not feel this way.I don't know if this is a technical problem or what.

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ArubaroBeefalo    3716

sure is easy to kite all the time bishops, df, klaus spells, nightmere bishop, 9 hounds, many terrobeaks+another enemy, monkeys, 100%kiting with spider warriors, beequeen, fuelweaver meanwhile he cages you...

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jpmrocks    188
22 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Don't "sit there", go in pubs (Survival Public Servers) and be amazed on how "good" bulk player-base kites. You know, most players like newbies/noobs/casuals.. getting mushed by regular spiders, cats, beefs, tall birds and of course Charlie. Was quite interesting Monday evening on an Endless 10-slots server I visit from time to time where usually 50% are experienced players - a lot of people using Walter were dying left and right.

Yet I concur his sanity-tied-to-hp is not that original or fun. A forumite proposed Walter's main con be related to allergies (here) which imo would be more interesting. Imagine if he could be affected by pollen (Flowers, Butterflies, Moon Moths, and Butter Muffins), Honey (also all honey-centered meals), nuts, Bees and cats, BQ plus Antlion. And those allergies could manifest as swollen face (visually) and not being able to eat for a certain amount of time (mechanically); also inherent additional dmg - an idea.

I dont know what this has to do with anything I said but okay.

 

24 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

Taking damage from starving, freezing, overheating, picking spiky bushes or cacti, and eating damaging foods all damage his sanity.

All extremely easy to take of problems. Food is in no shortage until Winter, and even then, with a group, food is no shortage in Winter either unless youre playing with a group that by God's grace made it to winter. Freezing and Overheating are as much an issue for Walter than any other character, he doesnt need anything special to "cure" this. Damage from cacti, bushes, and food comes from, yknow, learning whats good and bad in DS. Youre saying "if you know how the game works, he doesnt have any problems".

 

23 minutes ago, joker177 said:

In the current version, the benefits brought by his slingshot are a bit poor.players thought his arrival might bring new changes to dst’s long-range weapon system because the previous long-range weapon system was not good.when I use Walter myself, I would rather use a ham stick to fight a mob than a slingshot.The animation effect of the furnace's long-range weapon is amazing, but Walter's slingshot does not feel this way.I don't know if this is a technical problem or what.

I agree. If he has weaker melee damage or slower melee speed or something, the slingshot would be a much more viable and interesting choice beyond hunting birds. I know, though, that his super strong ammo, marble, marbles, and thelucite, do hit HARD.

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YouKnowWho    8018

What’s the problem with “if you train and play the game well you’ll be able to overcome his downside”?

 

Seriously, you guys don’t get this?

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jpmrocks    188
7 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

sure is easy to kite all the time bishops, df, klaus spells, nightmere bishop, 9 hounds, many terrobeaks+another enemy, monkeys, 100%kiting with spider warriors, beequeen, fuelweaver meanwhile he cages you...

You can sniper your way through the entirity of the Ruins in a day. In fact, he's better for bishops than other characters because he shoot outside their range. And all the bosses you mentioned you can kill without taking a lick of damage, as Wes, so it's a non issue.

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Scrimbles    3343
4 minutes ago, jpmrocks said:

All extremely easy to take of problems. Food is in no shortage until Winter, and even then, with a group, food is no shortage in Winter either unless youre playing with a group that by God's grace made it to winter. Freezing and Overheating are as much an issue for Walter than any other character, he doesnt need anything special to "cure" this. Damage from cacti, bushes, and food comes from, yknow, learning whats good and bad in DS. Youre saying "if you know how the game works, he doesnt have any problems".

Yeah, this is more of a Don't Starve Together problem rather than a Walter problem.

 

Willow, Wolfgang, WX, Wicker, Wigfrid, Maxwell, Wortox, and Wurt could be treated the same way.

 

When you learn to avoid their weaknesses, its no longer a problem. Like, yeah, duh?

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jpmrocks    188
1 minute ago, YouKnowWho said:

What’s the problem with “if you train and play the game well you’ll be able to overcome his downside”?

 

Seriously, you guys don’t get this?

Well his downside isnt even a downside. It's something that a core part of the game's combat, Kiting, negates completely. 

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ArubaroBeefalo    3716
2 minutes ago, jpmrocks said:

You can sniper your way through the entirity of the Ruins in a day. In fact, he's better for bishops than other characters because he shoot outside their range. And all the bosses you mentioned you can kill without taking a lick of damage, as Wes, so it's a non issue.

but that is his downside, if you dont do all of this perfectly you will have more troubles than regular characters.

What i guess is that this topic is to say "ey i can do all withtout being hit you noobs" because a regular player, even a pro one, will have problems in some situations. **** happends and we cant prevent all of it even with range and a fat horse so yeah, he has a downside: derp and you will be in troubles

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jpmrocks    188
2 minutes ago, Ogrecakes said:

Yeah, this is more of a Don't Starve Together problem rather than a Walter problem.

Other characters still get hit hard by these downsides tho. Wormwood burns more in overheating, willow freezes more in freezing, etc. Even Wurt, as good as she is, still has hard struggles. Walter has the same struggles as a Wilson, but has a bunch of bonus perks on top of that.

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Having to kite is honestly a more complex way of dealing with a downside than a majority of the characters...

Wigfrid can only eat meat, good thing most of the good dishes are meat!

Maxwell has low health, good thing this doesn't make armor or healing any less effective! (This is also negated by kiting OMG)

WX takes damage while wet, good thing 100% wetness protection is so easy to get!

Willow comes with her own teddybear to make dealing with winter easier! (Not that it was a problem to begin with)

List continues

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jpmrocks    188
1 minute ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

but that is his downside, if you dont do all of this perfectly you will have more troubles than regular characters.

What i guess is that this topic is to say "ey i can do all withtout being hit you noobs" because a regular player, even a pro one, will have problems in some situations. **** happends and we cant prevent all of it even with range and a fat horse so yeah, he has a downside: derp and you will be in troubles

Thats poor character design then if a character's downside is something the player controls, which is just learning kiting. Warly can only eat cooked food, the player cant control that. Wormwood cant heal from food, the player cant control that. Wolfgang, as strong as he is, still has a high hunger drain, with the only bandaid being the belt of hunger. Walter's downside is something the player has control of outside of the game, which is just learning to kite.

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Scrimbles    3343
2 minutes ago, jpmrocks said:

Other characters still get hit hard by these downsides tho. Wormwood burns more in overheating, willow freezes more in freezing, etc. Even Wurt, as good as she is, still has hard struggles. Walter has the same struggles as a Wilson, but has a bunch of bonus perks on top of that.

When you learn to counter a downside, then its not really a problem is it?

The only characters I would say have downsides that don't fit into that are... actually, just Wormwood.

Healing as Wormwood requires real time to be spent gathering healing items, and even using them is slower than just spam eating mushrooms or something.

 

Just play as a 1 health character if you think his ability is not a problem, since you can just kite after all. Unless you're not good enough?

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x0-VERSUS-1y    5657
4 minutes ago, jpmrocks said:

I dont know what this has to do with anything I said but okay.

Of course you don't see it because you don't seem to care Walter is for all player-base, not just advanced players. And player-base at large has a lot of troubles maintaining HP. Thus for them Walter has cons. For you, perhaps not. One can "kill without taking a lick of damage, as Wes" - and if you are at that level regarding all mobs/bosses in DST including pubs and lag, congrats! You probably are in the 1-3% able to do so from entire DST player-base. And demanding harsher general parameters based solely on your own experience has a name: elitism.

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ArubaroBeefalo    3716
1 minute ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Of course you don't see it because you don't seem to care Walter is for all player-base, not just advanced players. And player-base at large has a lot of troubles maintaining HP. Thus for them Walter has cons. For you, perhaps not. One can "kill without taking a lick of damage, as Wes" - and if you are at that level regarding all mobs/bosses in DST including pubs and lag, congrats! You probably are in the 1-3% able to do so from entire DST player-base. And demanding harsher general parameters based solely on your own experience has a name: elitism.

im with you but at the same time having lag, unless is a server problem, is not something that matters because you should play with good connection and the computer required. Being new at the game is another thing that doesnt matter, there is a character pool for every kind of player but if we considere that walter is not for beginers then is because he has a real downside so... this topic has any sense a part of size our genitalia

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meep44    7
9 minutes ago, jpmrocks said:

Thats poor character design then if a character's downside is something the player controls, which is just learning kiting. Warly can only eat cooked food, the player cant control that. Wormwood cant heal from food, the player cant control that. Wolfgang, as strong as he is, still has a high hunger drain, with the only bandaid being the belt of hunger. Walter's downside is something the player has control of outside of the game, which is just learning to kite.

You cant "control" how much sanity you lose when you get hit, but all downsides need to be learned, like learning recipes to counter warly's picky eating or learning alternative healing to counter wormwoods inability to heal from food. Learning to kite to counter walters sanity loss is the exact same and when you get good at dealing with a downside then the character becomes good. You just happen to know how to counter walters downside before he was released, doesnt make it a bad downside, just makes you a better player.

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x0-VERSUS-1y    5657
17 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

im with you but at the same time having lag, unless is a server problem, is not something that matters because you should play with good connection and the computer required. Being new at the game is another thing that doesnt matter, there is a character pool for every kind of player but if we considere that walter is not for beginers then is because he has a real downside so... this topic has any sense a part of size our genitalia

In my case the best connectivity server I get to play in surrounding area is a Klei official at ~70 ping. Then a dedicated community one at ~90 ping. Rest go well above 100. Thus I only have the option to adapt as best I can to high ping (not to mention my rubberbanding because Ro has a $h|t of a cable infrastructure in provincial city buildings like mine to where ISPs link). Or play alone on personal servers - that got old quick a long time ago. And there are a lot of people in my situation, some miles worse. What would be a realistic approach to this?

Walter seemed at start to be geared towards casual-beginner bracket. But it has a quirk: you get hit, your sanity goes away very quick. If massively hit, you are insta-insane. Thus you kinda are stuck with a Kinder-surprise character: a lot of bulk-players will go for it. Sure time will tell if left as-is how popular will remain with said player-base. But takes like present thread only add insult to injury in case of player-base at large.

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jpmrocks    188
5 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

In my case the best connectivity server I get to play in surrounding area is a Klei official at ~70 ping. Then a dedicated community one at ~90 ping. Rest go well above 100. Thus I only have the option to adapt as best I can to high ping (not to mention my rubberbanding because Ro has a $h|t of a cable infrastructure in buildings to where ISPs link in provincial cities like mine). Or play alone on my server - and that got old a long time ago. And are a lot of people in my situation, some a lot worse. What would be a realistic approach to this?

Walter seemed at start to be geared towards casual-beginner bracket. But it has a quirk: you get hit, your sanity goes away very quick. If massively hit, you are insta-insane. Thus you kinda are stuck with a Kinder-surprise character: and a lot of bulk-players will go for it. Sure time will tell if left as-is how popular will remain with said player-base. But takes like present thread only add insult to injury in case of player-base at large.

The problem with a casual-beginner character is that if it's good at the start, it's good forever. You have a character with a ton of really good perks, and the downside being dont get hit. Once you learn to not get hit, there's no more downsides. Whereas, a character like, say Winona, her downside of going hungry faster when building is something that will be there. You cant learn some trick to make her hunger not drain faster when crafting. Wurt and Wig will always have special diets, you cant learn some trick to avoid it, you have to play with that diet in mind.

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Sweaper    691
23 minutes ago, jpmrocks said:

Thats poor character design then if a character's downside is something the player controls, which is just learning kiting. Warly can only eat cooked food, the player cant control that. Wormwood cant heal from food, the player cant control that. Wolfgang, as strong as he is, still has a high hunger drain, with the only bandaid being the belt of hunger. Walter's downside is something the player has control of outside of the game, which is just learning to kite.

"Walter can't tank without losing sanity" FTFY. That's his downside.

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