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LETSCHAT

Please take the IMPROVISE cards out of the basic deck.

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LETSCHAT    88

So recently, new cards were added to the basic deck in Sal's run. 

These would include all the new IMPROVISE cards.  It would have been nicer if these new cards were presented as an optional cardpack.  When they're part of the basic deck, they're no longer optional. Even when all the card packs are turned off, they're still there.  The basic deck is a really interesting and well-balanced starting point--it would enhance player choice if it was up to the player if they wanted to use them or not.

In short, the newly added IMPROVISE cards in the basic deck should be their own optional card pack, not a mandatory extension of the basic deck. 

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TheOwl    113

What do you mean "recently"? I've looked in both the regular branch and experimental branch and the only cards with Improvise I see in the basic deck are the "Improvise a card from a pool of special cards" ones, and they've been there for months, if not from thet start.

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pacovf    915

I assume they mean cards added to the default card pool, not to the starter deck. It is a bit ambiguous in the OP.

I have no opinion on the topic itself, I always play with all packs on. I don't know how much these new improvise cards dilute the basic card pool. My limited experience during my first few Sal runs (before unlocking more card packs) was that the basic card pool was weighted towards play-as-many-cards-per-turn-as-possible strategies. 

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LETSCHAT    88
On 6/17/2020 at 5:18 AM, pacovf said:

I assume they mean cards added to the default card pool, not to the starter deck. It is a bit ambiguous in the OP.

I have no opinion on the topic itself, I always play with all packs on. I don't know how much these new improvise cards dilute the basic card pool. My limited experience during my first few Sal runs (before unlocking more card packs) was that the basic card pool was weighted towards play-as-many-cards-per-turn-as-possible strategies. 

It's great that you have the option to play how you want to play.  Some folks like playing with the card packs off--regardless of what you think about that--its an option that gets taken away if that basic deck gets dilluted/more cards get added without the option to take them out.

 

If you like three meat pizza and I like cheese pizza, Griftlands just added pepperoni to the basic cheese pizza.  I'm asking if they could make it a separate topping like everything else.  Even if you're a meat lovers-kind of person, at least get that it's good to have options, since it's a single player pizza.

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pacovf    915

I get that :) However, basic card pool is the first one players will interact with, so there are other considerations than just player choice. Namely, first impressions of game balance for a new player. In your analogy, maybe Klei thought that their basic pizza was missing leavening agent.

Since no one will ever agree about what should or should not be in the basic card pool, the logical implementation would be to split all basic cards into card packs too, only you start with them unlocked.

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LETSCHAT    88
On 6/17/2020 at 4:44 AM, TheOwl said:

What do you mean "recently"? I've looked in both the regular branch and experimental branch and the only cards with Improvise I see in the basic deck are the "Improvise a card from a pool of special cards" ones, and they've been there for months, if not from thet start.

Some have, Some haven't.

As said, "new" improvise-based cards were added to the starting pool of cards.  GL added them to balance based on metrics that showed most folks weren't using them due to low synergy.  This isn't uncommon, and has happened on several times/updates since before Rook's campaign was released. 

Here's the difference:  instead of being separate card packs, or more rare cards that you would hope are at the black market or later days in Sal's run, the IMPROVISE additions are common and uncommon cards infused into the basic starter pool of cards.  The "option" to buy/toggle them off are gone.  You just have them now.  

It harkens back to a similar problem when card packs weren't optional (and I asked for a toggling feature back then too).  As a player, esp. in a single player game, having options is great, having options taken away is bad.  There should be an option to play with all the cards just as there should be the option to play without any card packs and just a challenge run with the basic pool of starting cards.  That gets harder to do as more cards are added to the starting set of cards (esp. if they're common/uncommon as they show up more and more).  It takes away an option of a style of play, whereas if the new commons/uncommons were available as a new toggable card packs, you'd have the best of all worlds.

 

18 minutes ago, pacovf said:

I get that :) However, basic card pool is the first one players will interact with, so there are other considerations than just player choice. Namely, first impressions of game balance for a new player. In your analogy, maybe Klei thought that their basic pizza was missing leavening agent.

Since no one will ever agree about what should or should not be in the basic card pool, the logical implementation would be to split all basic cards into card packs too, only you start with them unlocked.

I get this sentiment too :).

 

This may sound weird, but like the Brawl when they added which takes out the story elements, it would be nice to just have a deck creation mode unlocked at the completion of the highest prestige (say Prestige 30) where you just flat out make the deck you want from the get go and run loose having faced the hardest the game had to throw at you.  This would resolve all issues of choice vs new player experience in my book.

 

Then I could "earn" the deck I want rather than "lose even more control" over the deck I wanted.

 

 

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