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JosePapp

How to make Woodie's curses a fun downside

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JosePapp    629

So i've been thinking about this ever since he metamorphosed in his rework and something i kinda miss is having the curses be intrusive through certain actions since that could add a bit more of a downside for woodie and also make for a fun little gimmick. So here's my idea:

  • Every time woodie swings any axe 150 times in under 4 minutes he turns into the werebeaver.
  • When woodie is at 20% health he has a 67% chance to turn into a goose and a 33% chance to turn into a Moose.
  • Alternatively, Woodie has a chance to turn into a goose if he stays at full wetness for too long.

I tried to keep it straight to the point, i'm not so sure about the low health transformation but i thought it'd be a cool fight or flight scenario, What d'yall think? should woodie get something like this or should he stay as is? also, why do you think he should or shouldn't?

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Frashaw27    1197

His forms aren't suppose to be downsides anymore, there are suppose to be his main perk, his big ability, his specialty dish to the team. It's like making Willow take fire damage, it just doesn't make sense. Sure, it worked for the old Woodie, but he also only had one general good form compared to 3 specialized good forms, and it just make less sense to make him be forced into the forms when that isn't fitting his character anymore. Your idea just makes him more annoying to play and potentially can screw people over with the 20% health change, imagine being in the middle of a boss fight and being turned into a attackless, defenceless, goose.

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ShadowDuelist    6576

Woodie would become too unreliable, he'd lose items and get starving all the time when doing things, specially during fights. 

I'd say a big no-no to something like this.

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Scrimbles    3341

I would be interested in having unique transformation conditions, like taking damage building up a weremoose meter, chopping trees building up a werebeaver meter, and losing sanity building up a weregoose meter.

Woodie doesnt really have a downside right now, and his forms are all less useful than the sum of their parts, or the old werebeaver, giving him situations where you are threatened into transforming would create some dynamic, more thoughtful gameplay.

 

Then we could bring back eating wood as the beaver, bring back the log meter taking damage instead of health, increase the beavers damage up to 60 again, increase the beavers damage resistance again, maybe give it the ability to swim. Remove the other forms and the totems while were at it...

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pyroisshy    58

I think Woodies curse should be stat based, (in addition to idols) like if when Woodie is starving (not from coming out of a were-form) he will be forced to transform into the werebeaver, and can eat logs in addition to other foods as a last ditch effort to stay alive (with hunger staying as you transform back into Woodie) Similar mechanics could work for moose at low HP. Woodies curse isn't really something you have to plan around anymore, so having ways for the curse to still be preventable but something that can be a nuisance seems to be the right path.

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UnknowX    109

As a woodie main I can say that I kinda miss the log meter. It was a fun and unique downside, but easy to manage. My idea was to have an specific trigger for each curse besides the idols to make his curses more of a down side without taking away your control over them:

Werebeaver: bring back the logmeter. Every time it's below 30%, you will transform, but hunger will still become the weremeter (low logmeter is just the trigger). After you transform back, the logmeter goes back to 100%

Weregoose: every time you reach 80% wetness you will transform., Because of the weregoose natural insulation, you will dry of while in this form. As a bonus, everytime you shipwreck or fall into the sea, you will become weregoose on the spot (you still leave half your inventory where you transform).

Weremoose: will be trigger by naughtyness. Reach 25 points of naughtyness and you will transform. It's balanced because you won't trigger it while fighting spiders or hounds.

Eating monster foods and full moon will still trigger random transformations. Idols still work the same.

Also, to balance the power of the  transformations even more, I think that the hunger meter should become the Weremeter while retaining the drain percentage. This will force you to be at full hunger to rip the advantages of a transformation, and avoid people from just eating idol repeatedly to scape hunger. 

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My idea has always been getting rid of the idols and having him transform in eating other things

*Eating Pine Cones/Logs transforms him to Beaver.

*Eating food for 50 points of hunger over your max turns into Moose.

*Eating too many seeds too quickly turns you into Goose.

And having his hunger at 20 after he transforms back.  Also don't lose sanity while transformed

NEW DOWNSIDES

Downside 1: losing sanity and the ability to transform for a whole day after he's been reverted back.

Downside 2: Spawns the Shadow tree monster when insane and near trees. Throws branches kinda like those coconut treeguards from Shipwrecked.

 

P.S. Also Moose form should have more max HP and heal that amount when transformed.

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Well-met    3077
12 hours ago, Sweaper said:

Canonically, didn't Woodie master his transformation by now?

yes

and judging from woodie's bio, apparently it's the RoT events that gave him the goose and moose forms. It's not just a refresh update, it's tied to the lore.

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ShadowDuelist    6576

Ever heard the phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

Woodie is one of the most balanced characters now, only thing that was missing from him was lore (which has been slowly given in the last updates).

Maybe if Klei ever adds an official "hardcore mode" then all the characters can probably get new cons there. But as of right now, Woodie is probably the character that needs changes the last.

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Woodie's downsides in human form are enough, for now. Especially compared to other characters.

Woodie has to either go in the caves or prep around every single full moon for the entirety of the game. If anything happens to occur like a hound attack or a boss it'll take a dump on you even more because of were-creatures' inability to do things like healing or possibly not getting the best creature for the situation. This could also consume a sizable portion of extra hunger if you do not plan around it.

Woodie getting more treeguards is a downside and upside, but whenever you have enough living logs to sustain you. It's a downside because it forces you to spend time pacifying, killing, or throwing the treeguard on something else.

A downside should be measured by the amount of time and effort taken to negate it. Woodie takes a decent portion of planning and time, and scaling up with the lategame, even more time to deal with his downsides.

After all, in human form he's basically just Wilson with increased lumberjacking skills and an unbreakable axe. (Even though this particular skill WILL be outclassed by EVERY other character in the lategame using any sizable boss.)

Compare this to characters like Winona, who takes a small amount of extra hunger every once in a while to craft as a downside, yet can reliably automate soloing ALL of the bosses in the game.

Or WX-78 whose downside is going to be negated anyways because most optimal playing players are going to refrain from being wet regardless of character choice, and can use gears for absurd healing, and as for newbies, the wetness damage is so small that eating their meatballs will heal off the damage.

Or Maxwell who may have lower max health, but takes the same amount of healing and armor that a Wilson would need. Maxwell doesn't use any more time negating his downside than Wilson negating nothing.

From a time consuming standpoint, Woodie already has enough downside in human form to equate to his lumberjack abilities.

IF you think that the forms themselves are not costly enough, may I direct you to Uncompromising Mode. The sanity hit from the idols and being in were-form are a severe downside when the modded insanity begins to hit. Not to mention idols in general are harder to get because of most creatures like spiders drop monster morsels instead of monster meat. As well as hoard mobs being harder to farm with weremoose, treeguards taking EVEN longer to deal with, and getting wet on water as weregoose, which if left unchecked, will lead to the player freezing to death before they can even get out of weregoose form in some cases.

 

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ShadowDuelist    6576
Spoiler
17 minutes ago, WoodieMain45684 said:

Woodie's downsides in human form are enough, for now. Especially compared to other characters.

Woodie has to either go in the caves or prep around every single full moon for the entirety of the game. If anything happens to occur like a hound attack or a boss it'll take a dump on you even more because of were-creatures' inability to do things like healing or possibly not getting the best creature for the situation. This could also consume a sizable portion of extra hunger if you do not plan around it.

Woodie getting more treeguards is a downside and upside, but whenever you have enough living logs to sustain you. It's a downside because it forces you to spend time pacifying, killing, or throwing the treeguard on something else.

A downside should be measured by the amount of time and effort taken to negate it. Woodie takes a decent portion of planning and time, and scaling up with the lategame, even more time to deal with his downsides.

After all, in human form he's basically just Wilson with increased lumberjacking skills and an unbreakable axe. (Even though this particular skill WILL be outclassed by EVERY other character in the lategame using any sizable boss.)

Compare this to characters like Winona, who takes a small amount of extra hunger every once in a while to craft as a downside, yet can reliably automate soloing ALL of the bosses in the game.

Or WX-78 whose downside is going to be negated anyways because most players are going to refrain from being wet regardless of character choice, and can use gears for absurd healing.

Or Maxwell who may have lower max health, but takes the same amount of healing and armor that a Wilson would need. Maxwell doesn't use any more time negating his downside than Wilson negating nothing.

From a time consuming standpoint, Woodie already has enough downside in human form to equate to his lumberjack abilities.

 

 

Exactly this above, planning ahead more than with other characters defines Woodie's gameplay.

Also I want to point out that he has other less considered, yet important cons such as:

  •  Human Woodie overheats faster
  • All wereforms have a lot of cons, like not being able to craft or pick up items, not able to use wormholes or go in/out of caves, can't heal, high sanity drain, and overheating in a wereform is almost impossible to stop unless you get help or turn back to Woodie (his high insulation keeps you overheating for a long time. This is specially noticeable during Klaus battle)
  • Each wereform has unique weaknesses, being the werebeaver the weakest, as you dont have enough speed to run away, you do not have enough defense to take hits, and you don't have a decent attack to defend properly. Being a beaver when a hound wave starts is a nightmare. 
  • The transformation in/out of a wereform is the most vulnerable moment you will have. If you are at low sanity when transforming back to Woodie, there's usually nothing you can do to prevent a terrorbeak from spawning right above you and finishing you off. This may sound rare, but will happen a lot more often than you think. 
  • You need to stay at low hunger most of the time as woodie if you don't want to waste a ton of food. This takes a long time to get used to, and a lot of babysitting. If you don't and ignore this, then you will find yourself eating large amounts of food, like a Winona or even a Wolfgang.
  • You need to be mindful of full moons at all times. And even with all the practice in the world at one point or another you will forget and randomly transform, mostly wasting food, time and sometimes a lot of health. This problem stays with you forever, there is no way around it: You have to know when full moons are and have a plan for it, always.
  • In public servers re-joining during a full moon will most likely result in you spawning transformed. Unexpected transformations in public servers can usually result in your tam, your thul crown, your bee queen helmet, your cane or your lazy explorer being stolen by naughty players. You need a backup plan for when your stuff gets stolen too.

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Slagger    827

Woodie update was awful. They take him from being a woodcutter and turn him to a wizard. I have few plans about his curse.

Forms:

-Any wereform must not able to access map. 

-Goose must be a little bit slower on water. (So going to lunar islands should be harder)

-Werebeaver must be a bit faster.

Triggering Curse

-Idols must be removed permanently.

-Cutting so so much wood must trigger curse. (Turning so fast is very annoying)

-Eating two raw/cooked monstermeat, one monster tartare or one monster lasagna must trigger curse.

-Fullmoon must trigger (like it's happen normally)

Wereforms Choosing

-I think a wheel would be cool. While turning into wereform screen color should turn brown and normal for 5 seconds and wheel should popup. The player should choose on of form. Player should not able to choose same form in a raw. If player don't choose any of two form, wheel would choose randomly one from this two choices. Here the wheel pic. I drawed on phone but I think you get what I mean.

IMG_20200619_172025.thumb.JPG.160efb510b1bd35e6095c2f83afc8b48.JPG

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Hornete    4715
16 minutes ago, ShadowDuelist said:

Human Woodie overheats faster

Huh? He overheats faster?

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Hornete    4715
12 minutes ago, Well-met said:

he has innate level 2 beard at all times

Huh, I forgot beards hurt summer insulation. Thanks.

Edit: actually, it looks like he doesn't overheat faster. It is true beards hurt your summer insulation but you can't go under 0 insulation. I'm not too positive here though, I just took a quick gander at the code.

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Sweaper    691
1 minute ago, Hornete said:

Huh, I forgot beards hurt summer insulation. Thanks.

Winter insulation in DST won't affect negatively during summer and vice versa for summer insulation.

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Hornete    4715
10 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

Winter insulation in DST won't affect negatively during summer and vice versa for summer insulation.

if self.inst.components.beard ~= nil then
        --Beards help winterInsulation but hurt summerInsulation
        winterInsulation = winterInsulation + self.inst.components.beard:GetInsulation()
        summerInsulation = summerInsulation - self.inst.components.beard:GetInsulation()
    end

Beards are a special exception, they actually lower your summerinsulation. (Nothing will happen to you if you dont have any summerinsulation in the first place though, like I said before it can't go under 0)

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Sweaper    691
1 minute ago, Hornete said:

if self.inst.components.beard ~= nil then
        --Beards help winterInsulation but hurt summerInsulation
        winterInsulation = winterInsulation + self.inst.components.beard:GetInsulation()
        summerInsulation = summerInsulation - self.inst.components.beard:GetInsulation()
    end

Beards are a special exception, they actually lower your summerinsulation. (Nothing will happen to you if you dont have any summerinsulation in the first place though, like I said before it can't go under 0)

Oh. Strange that they decided to make an exception only for beards and not clothes altogether, but I can see why considering using eyebrella right after winter ends would cause people to warm up slower.

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ShadowDuelist    6576

I guess I worded that wrong. I meant that you will always have less summer insulation, and therefore overheat faster than a non-bearded character with the same insulation.

It doesn't change how fast it will go when you already have 0, but that doesn't matter much regardless.

You will specially feel this if you don't have the eyebrella, and rely on cheap insulations like only a straw hat, or only an umbrella.

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