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Warly buff and rework  

126 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think about Warly? Do you think he needs buff?

    • Yes he needs some love. (buff and rework)
      20
    • No his current situation is good.
      65
    • Yes he needs buff but no rework.
      41


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I want to talk about Warly and i want to know what you guys think about his current sutiaton. Its been 10 months since he came out. With his arrival we got new vegetables like: "Toma Root, Potato, Asparagus, Pepper, Onion, and Garlic."

You can also check out this link which has enough information you need about his few abilities, positive and negative effects: https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/109374-warly-is-now-available-in-dst/

 

Playing with him is fun and he is a unique character. His exclusive recipes is also very good and useful if you have recources to make them. But except all of these things lets be honest. Yeah i love to play with him its fun. But im being completely objective here since before his release as you can imagine i was also playing with other characters. I still play with them but i play with warly most of the time from day one since his release. Now i think i have enough information about what he needs and what he could do better. I have few ideas about how he can be improved and buffed. I mentioned about my ideas in another topic but since this topic is all about him here i will write my ideas on here as well:

  • Old chef pouch features should come back (2x slower spoilage and 8 inventory space)
  • He should be able to cook his exclusive recipes on regular crockpots. (This might cause thecnical bugs. He has exclusive crockpot for some good reason.)
  • When Warly makes the regular recipes, his recipes should give a little more positive effects more than other recipes which is made by other characters. ( for example another player cooks meatballs and get regular effects from it. When warly cooks the same recipe those can have bit more possitive effects than the regular meatball. It can provide 10 point more hunger, health and sanity each for example.
  • He might have 1 more seasoning for all recipes which let us to extend foods spoilage time when we have no fridge or we are far from base.
  • He might have ability to combine maximum 2 seasonings together in one recipe. (garlic powder mixed with honey crystals in one portion meatball )
  • When he feeds the others by food that made by himself he can increase their sanity for few points.

These are few things that came up to my mind and makes a lot of sense since he is "The culinarian".

Like i said these are only ideas but they make sense since he is "The culinarian". Let me know what do you think. Lets see what do you think about him and whats your ideas.

PS: He is even nerfed after his relase x1.33 slower food spoilage instead of x2 and his chef pouch slots reduced to 6 from 8.

 

HERE IS HIS EXCLUSIVE RECIPES IF YOU DONT KNOW OR DONT REMEMBER

989886792_WarlyTarifler.thumb.png.7d4bc9326685a61c8532814658ee9ca5.png

 

 

Edited by Warly The Cook
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3 hours ago, Frashaw27 said:

Ah yes and make the Insulated Pack entirely worthless. The entire reason why it was nerfed was so that it didn't directly copy the boss item. In SP, it was fine since most id not all character exclusive charactera got eaten when you switched to a different character, making it a alluring factor it is to play Waly. However, in the the world of DST, it had to be nerfed since it wasn't only benefiting him anymore. For the sake of balence, it had to be nerfed less the simular exact same item becomes near worthless due to the crafting cost. I know it might be sad to give up inventory space for food preperation but it helps Warlys character and really only Warlys character, as the majority of character exclusive items should be. He is suppose to worry about his food spoiling and so would only except a chefs pouch, sacerficing his pockets for the sake of mind of fresh ingredients.

In short, no as it directly negates the use of a much harder to get item with no additonal effort put in, and it helps personify his character as someone who values his food over everything else. Sure, we were used to the old version but with all of the new and actual useful stuff warly got, a change fornthe sake of balence is fine if not wanted to make him even less of a swap character.

I think the reason why it was made that way was so that they could just say "this crockpot can cook all these recipes as well" instead of  "This dish can be made by everyone except you, you, and you..." It most likely makes the game run a little faster and makes the code less complicated for the developers.

He does, it called seasoning. Sure, it doesn't affect stats directly but the seasonings do make his foods all the more desirable. It also makes playing with other people less of a sweet hell since you wouldn't be constantly asked to cook all the food for that bonus. It might seem like a exageration, but people know that higher numbers are usually better and so they tend to use any advantage they can get, thus the warly spam. Sure, it makes him more desirable to play but it also makes people more relient on you. It also just makes him a bit too easy. His big problem is his food memory, but giving him a boost to all foods just reverts the peoblem back to 2 meaty stews within 2 days to get by, thus making a interesting charcter more bland. I understand that it still exists today, but it much more difficult then before, thus encouraging to actually eat a wide arrange of food instead of nearly full hunger meaty stew every few days. Even with the example you gave of just +10, it can make him spammed at and bland. Trialnmix is as good as Pierogi, Meatballs are even morw filling, etc. In short it makes him better overall,  but makes him the target of being coherced into a single task, which os player hostile. It also just makes him generally easier, which goes aginst his high matience/high reward style of play.

We have that, its called Salt. Not salt seasoning, but pure salt. It had the effect you ate looking for and everu character can use it. Some may argue that the seasoning salt should have this effect as well, but the idea you are sugfeating already exists in a way it would be implemented.

No, it just makes him much easier. Sure it may me space efficent to combine the spices, but thats the point, to pick and choose what foods you will sacerfice to use which buff. It adds more stratagey, more nuance to the character then to just cram all of them into one and calling it a day.

I mean sure? It doesn't really seem something that character should be incentivze to do, as all character wat perfectly fine to not rely on another person eating, in fact I would just demand to have the food itself then having to stand perfectly still while another player silently judges my intellegence while they spoon feed me. Its not bad but its not really something that needs or is really nessary in the game. It doesn't have anything bad associated with it, but i just don't like the idea of having to rely on someone to do a job I could already do before hand with no issues.

This actually to incentivize more strategy in the game, as you would have to carefully budget food in order to survive everu memory period. This just makes that much easier. It also makes him feel more normal with the rest of the cast since he generally get hungry as fast as everyone else, even with his huge stomach. Again, this only adds to the matience/reward model they are going for with him. It makes the character easier, which just makes him more bland and more OP then the reasonably balenced he is now.

 

The genral idea I got from your suggestions is that you want Warly to be easier and more powerful with improving the certin aspects that make him boring to play as. Your suggestions as your opinion, but I feel that your opinion is clouded by the other characters in the way that you want him to reach the peak that they are instead of his own little section of power. There is nothing wrong with wanting balencing,  but Warly is just isn't one of the things that need it.

I dont want him to be easier i just wrote here what can be new for him. I mean these things the first ones that came up to my mind. I love to play with him and im happy with his current situation actually. I just think he has something missing. I was talking about something different than salt when i metioned to extend spoilage time with exclusive seasoning. As u said chef pouch nerfed because it was almost the same with insulated pack. So there can be something better in his exclusive seasonings for extending food spoilage more than salt. I also suggested when he feed someone it provide his friends few extra sanity because when there is nothing to do about increasing your sanity in rare situations it might come in handy when you have food which is also little bit strategic thing to do. Yeah maybe mixing seasonings might be too op i agree with that i also realized removing his hunger drain can be too op. You are right about these two. But i still dont agree with the rest of your opinion. Oh maybe that spoilage time for his chef pouch stay nerfed which is 1.33 rn if they add something for food spoilage in his seasonings bu i still think it needs to be 8 slots instead of 6. Also insulated pack is something that everyone can achieve which takes a lot of time and to be honest i dont see a lot of people rush for insulated pack. Thats why his pouch must the same like in his first release. He is all about food. Then i can ask you this if chef pouch is exclusive for him and insulated pack is way better than his exclusive item right now what benefit will his chef pouch have when everyone get insulated pack? It makes nonsense to me. Chef pouch will help you untill you get insulated pack then boom no need for chef pouch because you have insulated pack now. If chef pouch is going to be something unique it must be something no one can achieve, use and stronger than anything when it comes to store your foods in it. I think insulated pack must be nerfed instead of his pouch. So chef pouch can still stay unique in that way. They just need to swap insulated pack stats with chef pouch right now and i think its the best thing to do.

3 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

I chime in a lot on Warly related topics, and usually I only criticize the poor guy so let me preface this by saying that Warly is in no way a bad character. He is incredibly powerful and fun to play as, and in my opinion he plays exactly how I think he should (comparatively hard on the player playing as him for for the greater good to support the team). I don't feel as though my recent comments about him reflect how I feel. I obviously love this character and the role he fills for the team. I've wanted this character in DST for a long time. They did a fantastic job completely remaking this character into something great, and I want to take the time to show my appreciation for that.

That being said, I do have one big problem with Warly. Later on in the game he suffers from the same thing that Winona does and that is that the perks that he brings to the team can still be used, even without someone playing as him. Once you get bundling wraps and enough time to mass produce his amazing food/spiced powdercakes, there is no reason not to then switch to someone else. It is tricky with Warly because food is obviously his big thing and you can't just make his food/spices disappear when he is gone, that would be stupid. To fix this, one of two things need to happen:

  • Warly needs a character perk that provides some incentive to continue playing as him that isn't just faster crockpot dishes and faster campfire cooking. In my opinion @Warly The Cook hit the nail on the head about giving a minor buff to crockpot dishes made by him, even if just +15 sanity. Anyone who accidentally clicks on a topic where Warly is mentioned will know that this is something I've been in favor of lol.
  • Switching characters needs to be an endgame utility. This is an entirely different discussion so I'll at least spare you the verbal diarrhea on THIS topic.

As for everything else you brought up, I personally don't really have an issue with where it is currently. The chef pouch isn't really ideal but I usually travel light so I don't need the extra space. Having a bit slower food spoilage time than just 1.33 would be nice but some is still better than none I suppose. His hunger drain is fine. I always keep a close eye on my hunger bar as Warly so I actually can't remember the last time I took damage from starving as Warly. Double seasonings doesn't really seem necessary since they are really powerful. I do think he could use more seasonings though. I would say a movement speed one but that would be too overpowered.

One last thing to mention is that farming being reworked would A. be a long time coming and B. indirectly buff Warly. This is a about the character and not the game though so I'll leave it at that.

Overall, in my opinion his biggest downfall is caused by a game mechanic, not so much a character mechanic. It's annoying to always see streamers playing as Warly and getting excited just to find out that it is just to mass produce his food and then switch off of him. He deserves better than that.

 

I agree on that perk thing with you @Dr. Safety he is weak in late game like winona as you mentioned. He needs something makes him valuable in late game so at least one big buff or mini rework definetely need for him if you ask me. So he can be more playable in late game. You are right top to bottom. :wilson_goodjob:

Edited by Warly The Cook

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47 minutes ago, ArubaroBeefalo said:

I expect klei dont ruin warly because of this many threads asking for buffs.

If you dont like it dont play it

You cant simply tell something like that to players who likes to play this character and he needs buff for sure. Look at any forum you want or look at the other platforms to see which tier is warly voted. Its about your game style there is no such thing like A tier or F tier in my opinion. It depends for everyone to be honest. But in general if you consider his whole skills and gameplay features objectively he doesnt completely satisfy players like us in late game. We are talking about buff because we think he needs it. Of course klei is going to decide whats gonna happen about him as always they do. His pouch loses its purpose when you get insulated pack. Chef pouch is something unique for him. Yeah it doesnt have to be better than insulated pack but at least he needs to have something different and stronger than anything to only special for him so people like us can continue to play him even in late game effectively. I have no problem with his current situation right now except late game. Because except his unique recipes and seasonings. He loses his value in late game. When you can manage your food recources and be able to keep them safe and edible for a long time without warly. What benefit he will provide to other players except seasonings? You cant always cook special recipes too if you didnt make any vegetable stock. So only thing that makes him special in late game is his seasonings and its not a very important thing when you improve your base and gather things that you need the most. Instead of telling people "dont play that character if you dont like it" you could tell us what you think and why he doesnt need anything. People can play and tell whatever they want. We are all free to tell what we think. So before you tell something like that i suggest you to be helpful and share your ideas and what you think about this topic first so we can understand why do you think like that. As a player of DST everyone can tell what they want or whish for characters as long as they make sense.

IM GONNA SHARE THIS INFORMATIONS FROM WIKIA PAGE SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT DIFFERENCE INSULATED PACK AND CHEF POUCH HAVE

INSULATED PACK:

Insulated Packs cannot be placed in inventory or in Chests, they can be placed on the ground and used for storage. Any item clicked on an Insulated Pack which is on the ground will give the 'Store' option allowing the pack to be filled without equipping it. 

Despite slowing the spoilage of food items, the Insulated Pack does not completely work the same way as an Ice Box. Unlike the Box, the Pack will not stop the spoilage of Ice and Ice Cubes and will not be able to freeze a Thermal Stone. Additionally, it will completely prevent hot food from cooling off over time.

In the July 25, 2019 patch, the amount of inventory slots was increased from 6 to 8, to compete with Warly's Chef Pouch. In the May 28, 2020 patch, the Gears and Electric Doodad cost was reduced to 1.

CHEF POUCH:

The additional inventory slots were reduced from 8 to 6 and items inside will spoil 1.33 times slower instead of 2 times slower. It is no longer a starting item for Warly but still is craftable only by him. It requires 4 Cut Grass, 4 Twigs and 2 Nitre to craft.

 

As you can see i  wrote those differences bold between chef pouch and insulated pack so you can see the difference. Im not saying if his chef pouch gets buff its going to be the key for our all problems solvation. As a warly main and player. I want something makes him more valuable in late game thats all. Chef pouch nerf is just a thing that made him even weaker.

Edited by Warly The Cook
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Nin Ya    164

I mostly disagree with suggested changes, but feeding others for lil sanity sounds awesome! Recipes in picture are not reliable anymore! Dont try to cook Glowberry Mousse with honey :D Warly is well balanced - huge utility for a price (unlike other characters). What I would personally like to see is two things:

1. different quotes for meal Walry just recently eaten (because I'm sklerotic) and

2. spicing food makes it attractive for Warly again. 

Lets be honest - Warly is hungry. And I enjoy giving food to others far more than eating it myself. This would make him less hungry for a price, so its not that cheap as shipwrecked stat-from-food increase. 

But i'm fine with him just like he is. Challenge is part of gameplay and it would be boring without it.

Also add more spices in ocean areas. I want to raid the world for SPICES. They dont need to have huge effects O:)

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11 minutes ago, Nin Ya said:

I mostly disagree with suggested changes, but feeding others for lil sanity sounds awesome! Recipes in picture are not reliable anymore! Dont try to cook Glowberry Mousse with honey :D Warly is well balanced - huge utility for a price (unlike other characters). What I would personally like to see is two things:

1. different quotes for meal Walry just recently eaten (because I'm sklerotic) and

2. spicing food makes it attractive for Warly again. 

Lets be honest - Warly is hungry. And I enjoy giving food to others far more than eating it myself. This would make him less hungry for a price, so its not that cheap as shipwrecked stat-from-food increase. 

But i'm fine with him just like he is. Challenge is part of gameplay and it would be boring without it.

Also add more spices in ocean areas. I want to raid the world for SPICES. They dont need to have huge effects O:)

Thanks for your opinion. Well of course i dont want him to be super easy i also love challenge. Im just trying to explain there is a gap about him in late game, thats what i think. of course we dont have to think the same things. Im just trying to understand and learn what the others think about this topic and what is their suggestions. :D

Edited by Warly The Cook

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Sweaper    689

His chef pouch is good as it is, you'll always get fresh food out of spoiling ingredients when cooking on his crock pot, making him almost as good as WX when it comes to food spoilage as long as you can carry raw ingredients.

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Viktor234    4246
5 minutes ago, Sweaper said:

His chef pouch is good as it is, you'll always get fresh food out of spoiling ingredients when cooking on his crock pot, making him almost as good as WX when it comes to food spoilage as long as you can carry raw ingredients.

Please include the fact that you loose 3 inventory slots if carrying around Chef Pouch and your Portable Crock Pot and that you need to carry around many different fillers with you to be able to fill his stomach without penalties, unless you're relying on Meaty Stew, which will fill your inventory with alot of junk.

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Sweaper    689
10 minutes ago, Viktor234 said:

Please include the fact that you loose 3 inventory slots if carrying around Chef Pouch and your Portable Crock Pot and that you need to carry around many different fillers with you to be able to fill his stomach without penalties, unless you're relying on Meaty Stew, which will fill your inventory with alot of junk.

You still have plenty of slots? Grass, twigs, pig skin, lantern, season gear. Not to mention bundle.

Edit: Sorry for the confusion, English isn't my first language, can you pinpoint what you didn't understand please?

Edited by Sweaper

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NinofanTOG    3567

The only thing I would change about Warly is that he can eat raw food....I dont get why they made that change from shipwrecked tbh

 

 

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1 hour ago, NinofanTOG said:

The only thing I would change about Warly is that he can eat raw food....I dont get why they made that change from shipwrecked tbh

 

 

No its his specific penalty in game i dont agree with that tbh. he can already cook tons of food.

1 hour ago, ShyRo-Zyerenzy said:

Farms should be buffed. For me warly is perfect like this, doesn't need rework.

Well everyone thinks a different thing but, as u can see guys we have all common ground about one thing. Warly needs at least 1 big benefit in his skills, exclusive items or when he cook recipes. He have some issues with his gameplay in late game. He has no good use anymore when u finally make yourself a stable base and few reliable food resources. I think as some of you said he needs some kind of buff that allows him to get the vegetables more easily since its hard to get and stock them. Or at least he needs some extra stat boost when he cook regular recipes. If both of these not good enough then maybe he might get something from his lore? What if he comes with a picture with his mother and has extra 1 permanent slot for it? When he look at it he might get something temporary like -30 sanity for 3 times %70 or 80 fast cooking? I mean his video when he first came out was very emotional he had a lot of pictures with his mom if u looked at the video carefully. I mean it might sound stupid for some of you im just trying to be creative for new ideas.

When he looks at that picture every day he will remember the times when he cook for his mom and with that motivation he can cook 3 times faster between %70 or %80 each day for sanity cost around -30 or 40 maybe, since his memories will make him emotional with his mom and make him even more passionate with cooking. This picture cant be removed, cant be crafted from anyone or destroyed as well this picture is going to stay with him forever in his special picture slot. (Its just an idea.)

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Mysterious box    243

I don't get why the fact people can mass produce Warly's buffed and bundle wrap them somehow makes Warly a lesser character I mean by that logic wickerbottom is a bad character because you could have her mass produce crops and berries bundle them and salt box them never touch them again. Heck after you've explored the map and beaten every boss you plan to fight there's not really a big incentive to use Wolfgang yes combat plays a large part of the game but you don't technically have to fight anything but season bosses and even don't have to be fought fairly.

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Dr. Safety    3159
50 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

I don't get why the fact people can mass produce Warly's buffed and bundle wrap them somehow makes Warly a lesser character I mean by that logic wickerbottom is a bad character because you could have her mass produce crops and berries bundle them and salt box them never touch them again. Heck after you've explored the map and beaten every boss you plan to fight there's not really a big incentive to use Wolfgang yes combat plays a large part of the game but you don't technically have to fight anything but season bosses and even don't have to be fought fairly.

Since both of those characters haven’t been reworked yet, it’s unfair to use them as an example, but for the sake of the argument it’s fine. Yeah Wickerbottom could just bundle all of the stuff she grows but there would still be no real reason to switch off of her. With Warly, your entire gameplay is different. It’s fun to play around, but it is still taxing on the player. Not being able to repeat healing foods for full benefits is a real handicap at any stage of the game. With Warly having a downside as severe as that, it’s fine and fits the character, but is still ultimately a game changer that is objectively more difficult than a Wilson.

Going back to Wickerbottom and Wolfgang, yeah if you are just dying to sleep in a tent, or be next to a spider and lose 25 sanity per minute as opposed to 27.5, then yeah switching off of those characters is your way to go. However those don’t make any real difference in gameplay. Like I said, they haven’t been reworked yet so both of our points very well could fall flat on their face, but as of right now both points still stand.

Dont get me wrong, I love Warly’s downside and I think it is perfect just as is, but it boils down to the player not having to deal with it if they don’t want to, and I don’t like that. If you want a character’s upsides, you should have to deal with their downsides in full as well, at least until absolute end game. It should be a bit more than just finding the magical sky jawbreaker and then boom. 

I do want to note that as of this thread, my view has shifted from buff Warly to nerf character swapping. However since this is a thread about how to change Warly, and not how to change the game, I stand by saying that he needs a buff, if that makes sense.

Edited by Dr. Safety

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Mysterious box    243
1 hour ago, Dr. Safety said:

Since both of those characters haven’t been reworked yet, it’s unfair to use them as an example, but for the sake of the argument it’s fine. Yeah Wickerbottom could just bundle all of the stuff she grows but there would still be no real reason to switch off of her. With Warly, your entire gameplay is different. It’s fun to play around, but it is still taxing on the player. Not being able to repeat healing foods for full benefits is a real handicap at any stage of the game. With Warly having a downside as severe as that, it’s fine and fits the character, but is still ultimately a game changer that is objectively more difficult than a Wilson.

Going back to Wickerbottom and Wolfgang, yeah if you are just dying to sleep in a tent, or be next to a spider and lose 25 sanity per minute as opposed to 27.5, then yeah switching off of those characters is your way to go. However those don’t make any real difference in gameplay. Like I said, they haven’t been reworked yet so both of our points very well could fall flat on their face, but as of right now both points still stand.

Dont get me wrong, I love Warly’s downside and I think it is perfect just as is, but it boils down to the player not having to deal with it if they don’t want to, and I don’t like that. If you want a character’s upsides, you should have to deal with their downsides in full as well, at least until absolute end game. It should be a bit more than just finding the magical sky jawbreaker and then boom. 

I do want to note that as of this thread, my view has shifted from buff Warly to nerf character swapping. However since this is a thread about how to change Warly, and not how to change the game, I stand by saying that he needs a buff, if that makes sense.

I can understand that it's not fair to compare unreworked characters I just used that standard because it's what most tend to use but I see your point.

But as for the second point while it's true warly can be taxing on the mind for some people and I know it's not my place to say this but I don't think he's a good character for them. If the downside is too intrusive then no amount of buffs would fix that and neither would fixing farming.The main thing people do overlook is Warly's downside is meant to counterbalance the power of using a portable kitchen mini fridge included while spices and special dishes tend to be the main focus one thing that Warly calls his own is this.

That said most of what I've said in this post is not directed towards you just kinda airing my thoughts abit more I like to get chatty about characters. 

Edited by Mysterious box
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Dr. Safety    3159
42 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

But as for the second point while it's true warly can be taxing on the mind for some people and I know it's not my place to say this but I don't think he's a good character for them. If the downside is too intrusive then no amount of buffs would fix that and neither would fixing farming.The main thing people do overlook is Warly's downside is meant to counterbalance the power of using a portable kitchen mini fridge included while spices and special dishes tend to be the main focus one thing that Warly calls his own is this.

That said most of what I've said in this post is not directed towards you just kinda airing my thoughts abit more I like to get chatty about characters. 

I absolutely agree that Warly isn't for everyone. It's all about personal playstyle. In fact I agree with just about everything you mentioned to an extent. You said that being able to bundle Warly's spices and dishes don't make him any less of a character, and I completely agree. He is still just as viable if you know what you are doing. That's just the thing though. The cost of being able to make these insane dishes is that you need to know what you are doing. Even if he's not a good character for someone who just can't learn his playstyle, they can still quickly gather the ingredients for a few volt goat chaud-froids and switch to Warly way too early in the game. I sound kind of selfish for saying this, and maybe I am being irrational, but if people just don't like Warly's playstyle and just can't get past his food memory downside, then maybe they don't really deserve his buffs until they have done a majority of the game without them.

I just think that Klei didn't realize how powerful character swapping would be when they introduced it. You really don't have to do much to get it besides wait for the thing to spawn and get a couple purple gems. And now we have characters like Winona where you can just craft her stuff and then switch to someone else, virtually getting the upsides of 2 characters and the downsides of 1.

Also I want to apologize if I come off as aggressive with these responses that are practically novels. I really like hearing what members of the community have to say about my guy and I also want to voice my opinions. Thank you for engaging with me on this issue. You have changed my mind on a lot of things involving this character.

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Warly is one of my personal favorites and I think he’s fine other than his switch off problem. That being said I haven’t really seen a suggestion for adequately solving that. I think something that would make him more of a mainstay is adding to his nature of being a butcher and giving him better ability to farm mobs (maaaaayyybeee bosses). An idea I’ve always had is that he gets increased drops/drop chances. The three examples are as follows: Spiders, who have multiple varieties of drops, would drop one of their three drops as normal, but then have a chance to drop one of the other two things as well (ex: gland and meat drop from one spider kill). Volt goats could have an increased chance of dropping their horns say by 20% for example. Koalefants, with a fixed drop, can just drop one extra meat when killed by Warly. This change alone gives him an excellent mainstay purpose and helps him have a little utility outside of strictly being support.

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Viktor234    4246
13 hours ago, Dr. Safety said:

I just think that Klei didn't realize how powerful character swapping would be when they introduced it. You really don't have to do much to get it besides wait for the thing to spawn and get a couple purple gems. And now we have characters like Winona where you can just craft her stuff and then switch to someone else, virtually getting the upsides of 2 characters and the downsides of 1.

Is the problem really character swapping, or perhaps the fact that certain characters are Pick-and-Swap characters?

Using the Portal to swap between two characters (e.g. one character to play with and another character to support your first character) could be considered same as playing as a certain character and having a friend who plays as the 2nd character, but instead of paying with Moon Rock Idols you need to pay with food to keep your friend alive (Or just with insanity and a Telltale Heart whenever you need something from your friend). But not everyone has access to a friend or a friend who is willing to play on their server, and thus is forced to play alone on his server.

While the Portal can be considered overpowered when playing solo, it's not that overpowered or even necessary when playing together.

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Dr. Safety    3159
5 hours ago, Viktor234 said:

Is the problem really character swapping, or perhaps the fact that certain characters are Pick-and-Swap characters?

Using the Portal to swap between two characters (e.g. one character to play with and another character to support your first character) could be considered same as playing as a certain character and having a friend who plays as the 2nd character, but instead of paying with Moon Rock Idols you need to pay with food to keep your friend alive (Or just with insanity and a Telltale Heart whenever you need something from your friend). But not everyone has access to a friend or a friend who is willing to play on their server, and thus is forced to play alone on his server.

While the Portal can be considered overpowered when playing solo, it's not that overpowered or even necessary when playing together.

The way I see it, there are two major kinds of upsides: character perks, and shared perks. For example, Woodie’s infinite axe and faster chopping is a character perk. Only Woodie can benefit from this as no one else can hold Lucy and no one else can swing as fast as him. An example of a shared perk is Abigail’s Sistern. Abigail crafts it and everyone directly benefits from it in the form of a positive sanity aura. A pick and swap character would have their main schtick be a shared perk with maybe some very minor character perks. 

Winona and Warly are in my opinion the two biggest cases of having primarily shared perks (Winona being worse) which is fine. There is nothing wrong with shared perks, until you introduce the ability to switch characters very early in the game. Suddenly you don’t need to be playing as the character with the shared perk to get the perk, which to me just feels very easy to abuse. Plus it means now you don’t have to learn the characters to get the primary upsides.

Sometimes being a pick-and-swap character is inevitable. Winona can easily be fixed by making it so sometimes her buildings malfunction and she has to run over and do a little animation of “repairing it” or something similar. However Warly makes food, and there is nothing else to it. You bundle it, you switch to Wolfgang, hooray. I can’t think of any way to fix Warly to make him not have shared perks, besides buffing him and giving him some character perks to give more incentives. The community disagrees and thinks he is balanced as is, and after reading what people said in this thread, I have to agree.

Swapping comes way too early in game and isn’t earned. That’s why I think it should be end game. If you get to the end game and want to abuse Winona’s buildings or Warly’s buffs, then that’s fine. You already did a majority of the game without it and in my opinion you earned this powerful feature. But making it possible to get lucky enough to just find it in the first autumn?

I understand how fortunate I am to have a group of consistent friends and I understand that it’s not always the case. I really do feel for the people who have to play solo, and I do want to consider them in this and not just say “oh well it’s a multiplayer game so just get friends or don’t play”. The issue is Warly is solely support. He’s going to be more of a challenge if he has no group to support and is just on his own. Character swapping should not be (and to my knowledge, is not) the answer to this. The unfortunate answer is to either accept the solo Warly challenge or pick someone else. 

I also would once again like to apologize for this mental diarrhea of a response. I am gonna try to get better at not being so scatter brained, and more concise with my responses...

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Mike23Ua    5706

The only problem I have with Warly is that maybe he should be a little more forgiving on his repeated food dish penalty- I mean unless this dude is a spoiled brat you will eat whatever’s thrown in front of you when your on the verge of starvation.

Which I find Hilarious- because ironically he’s the only character in the game who can use the bones of other failed friends of his in his cooking recipes. 
 

Maybe reduce it down to you can eat the same meal again after 4 different meals? I dunno it just feels like they designed him to be completely annoying to play as!

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ArubaroBeefalo    2993
1 minute ago, Mike23Ua said:

The only problem I have with Warly is that maybe he should be a little more forgiving on his repeated food dish penalty- I mean unless this dude is a spoiled brat you will eat whatever’s thrown in front of you when your on the verge of starvation.

Which I find Hilarious- because ironically he’s the only character in the game who can use the bones of other failed friends of his in his cooking recipes. 
 

Maybe reduce it down to you can eat the same meal again after 4 different meals? I dunno it just feels like they designed him to be completely annoying to play as!

that is not a big issue, there is variety of recipes that gives a good amount of belly with the same ingredients (like meatballs, meat stew, bacon and eggs, kebab, honey ham, etc) No being allowed of eating raw food is more problematic that having a meatball and a bacon and eggs in the fridge since early could be limited by this like making ruins/boss rush a little tricky (you still have easy healing recipes like bacon and eggs and now loabsters dinner, trail mix and butter muffin)

the main problems is that playing as warly doesnt offers nothing when you are not in the kitchen. Its a hungry wilson that cooks well

He should know how to chop meat as a real chef so killing, for example deerclops, will drop more meat. Maybe having better stats so he can be more tanky because of how healthy he is or idk i can really think a good perk and at the same time (without the portal problem) he will be consider one of the best characters.

Having an early portal devalues how good is a character in general but that, at the end, is a problem for those who use it but at the same time each character should have unique perks attached to them not like winona that, even looking like a strong woman as seen in the trailer, her stats are the same as wilson when she, atleast, could add more hp, resistance to instanity or something. Or warly having more buff from the seasoning

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Ogrecakes    3022

I dont really want him to be directly buffed but I wish he wasnt just balanced around his food buffs.

I would very much like if his food memory lasted longer (or was reworked), and he would get his old bonus stat perk from unique foods back.

His food buffs and spices feel like a byproduct of his character, but arent INTEGRAL to his character, which I suppose defines characters like Winona and Wurt too.

Edited by Ogrecakes
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Mike23Ua    5706

I want to touch on the celestial portal as being a thing... who says that that will ALWAYS Be Available? What Golden rule states that this is a definite thing and it’ll always be there?

Who says there will never be an option to disable its functionality? Just like you can remove all touch stones from your game if that’s something you really want to do...

YES the Celestial Portal is an Overpowered thing, but simply disabling the meteor that drops its crafting orb prevents you from building it... and that’s something I fully EXPECT when they make that “Uncompromising Mode”

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